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Has our top need now become our 2nd top need?

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Wingers depend as much on their centre as centre do on their wingers.

Of course, playing with better wingers raises your point total. But we've strayed from the point. You're on a 2nd line, you have the responsibility to put up points regardless of wither your wingers are better or not. Saying that Lapierre can just be thrust into that role and given those responsibilities without any effect on his psyche because all he has to do it touch the puck now and then isnt serious nor realistic.

Being on an offensive line with offensive responsibilities changes your entire game. You can just settle for dump the puck in the corners and be content with cycling and pinning the defense in their zone. You have to carry the puck way more, and carry it longer, and produce constant scoring chances. You think Laps can just leave the puck to his wingers and let them do the job? How fast do you think the opposition will see through that and just focus on neutralizing the wingers?

That is what pressure to produce is about. Confidence in your offensive instincts and skills is critical. You put Laps in there and he's doing like Plex or Higgins and not scoring for 10 straight games and the pressure is on. He's going pointless for 10 games and it gets worse.

Not saying he can't do it, not saying he couldnt be good at it. Just saying "not yet".

What he said.

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Ya, I dont get it. IMO their low Assist argument is bunk.

Laps just needs to be there, and win faceoffs and Assists will "magically appear". It literally can be that easy when you have 2 30 Goal guys on your wing.

Am I the only who knows the following will routinely happen:

Scenario 1: Laps wins faceoff, puck goes to Cammy, Cammy crosses over the blue line and passes to A Kosts who scores. +1 A to Laps

Scenario 2: Laps wins faceoff in the Habs end, knocks the puck back to 1 of the Habs passing Dmen, quick breakaway pass to Cammy or A Kosts who scores. +1 A to Laps

Scenario 3: Laps wins faceoff in the oppositions end, knocks the puck back to 1 of the Habs Dmen at the point, they shoot and they score. +1 A to Laps

Um, so why wasn't Yanic Perreault the most sought after "2nd line c e n t e r" for every team. By the above scenarios, he shoulda had multiple 100 point seasons.

The Habs have been looking to define a defensive c e n t e r for ages. Tried Radek Bonk in the role, Juneau, etc, etc. It appears, at this point, that Lapierre is starting to develop into a very good defensive guy. Why is it that when a player excels (and even saying that Laps excelled is pushing it) at a given role, that means he's graduated to an offensive role? Why can't he just be a decent defensive centre and a pest, the second of which he's proven to be very effective at. Maybe when we play Philly, he can get Emery to swing for the fences again.

Lapierre isn't the answer to the Habs 2nd line C. For better or worse, that's Plekanec's spot. After thinking it over for a while in my own little world, and despite what I said in another thread, I think Plex can thrive in that role. Now that Gomez is here, it's clear that he's defined as the #1 C. There is no ambiguity about Plex's role.

I'll say this much, if I was Cammalleri, I'd be a little pissed if we started the season and I was centered by Max Lapierre.

PS: I think that it's funny that C E N T E R is automatically changed to centre. The language filter doesn't apply to mods, and even some of the native French speaking mods type it out as C E N T E R.

Edited by huzer

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If Lapierre plays with Cammalleri, Lapierre will get more points than what is expected of him. But conversely, Cammalleri will almost certainly get less points than what would be expected of him. At best, it's a zero sum proposition... you hope Lapierre's defensive strengths will outweigh the drop in offensive production. But in reality, you are best served by playing your skilled players with likewise skill guys. Look at Lapierre's point totals from junior until now... guys usually don't blossom into offensive stars at the NHL level unexpectedly, and if they do they're usually defensemen like Souray.

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Oh I know what you mean Kozed and agree with you for the most part aboot that. However I have seen on multiple occasions offensively minded actions in Laps so I am fairly confident in saying that I'm sure he can produce offensively with 2 offensively minded guys. Sure Laps isnt ready to be expected to be a legit #2 guy on any given line but if he's put with 2 30 Goal guys he wouldnt be forced to produce with the 2nd line expectations all on his own. For sure on a line with 2 low scoring wingers it would most likely not work out, but that wont be the case.

Laps knows to get over the blue line like a bat out of hell, and then slow down, or stop, and or head back south which throws most teams d pairings into chaos - the over skate their assignments opening up passing lanes, or stop and get caught flat footed by late comming fast moving players, etc. The only difference is that this year he would have 2 linemates who understand this and know not to stop when Laps does, unlike Kosto who would aways seem to stop when Laps did.

Think of this: The Habs had so many odd man rushes last year, and I wouldnt be surprised if the Habs blew more odd man rushes than any other team last year. Ironically the only Habs that seemed to have figured out that its not a race to the goal line was Laps and he's the one most will say has the least offensive talent, yet hes the only one who figured that out. :P

If like you say Laps has prolonged slumps as 2nd C than demote him back to 3rd C. Its not Armageddon to give it a chance and see if Laps can surprise the majority of you and actually pulls it off like I'm fairly certain he could.

Besides how is watching Plex continue to struggle as 2nd C a better option? I honestly beleive swapping the 2 would ultimately make both players better.

Edited by Sir_Boagalott

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PS: I think that it's funny that C E N T E R is automatically changed to centre. The language filter doesn't apply to mods, and even some of the native French speaking mods type it out as C E N T E R.

I think it's all because people were writing "Bell Center" instead of the real, official "Bell Centre". But I also think it's better letting people misspell it than making every other correct occurrence of center being filtered incorrectly.

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It's spelled Centre across Canada. Look up all the arena names across the country... if you find even 10% of them spelled "er" I'll be shocked. We're a centre nation.

EDIT: I just looked up my listing of arena names for the CJHL, which would give the most accurate depiction of how the word is spelled nationwide. Only 3 arenas in the entire Canadian Junior A hockey world spell the word with an "er"... one is in Buffalo, so that doesn't count. Only in Woodstock, New Brunswick and, get this, Princeville, Quebec do they have arenas that are called C E N T E R. There appear to be somewhere between 40 and 50 hockey facilities called "centre" at this level in towns as diverse as Brooks, Alberta and Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts, Quebec.

Here's my Google Maps file if you're interested:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=

113614006159744207379.000469a53e540f869a058

Edited by saskhab

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I didn't mean to derail the thread. Just frustrating that it always "corrects" that, yet people spell player names wrong, etc. If someone spells Bell Centre incorrectly, is also uncapitalizes and makes it Bell centre. Weird.

Regardless to that nonsense, I still say that unless there's a trade before the season starts, Plex will be centering (or is it centring?) the 2nd line.

Edited by huzer

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Um, so why wasn't Yanic Perreault the most sought after "2nd line c e n t e r" for every team. By the above scenarios, he shoulda had multiple 100 point seasons.

OK, feel free to name 2 30 goal guys Yannic was sandwiched between on any given year. Hell name just 1. :lol:

Yanic was 1 of the most underrated players ever. Its a shame that he was drafted by the Laffs, they ruined his career.

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OK, feel free to name 2 30 goal guys Yannic was sandwiched between on any given year. Hell name just 1. :lol:

Yanic was 1 of the most underrated players ever. Its a shame that he was drafted by the Laffs, they ruined his career.

I think you missed my point. Your reasoning was that because Lapierre can win faceoffs, he should be on the 2nd line, where he'll rack up points because of the 3 scenarios you listed. If it were that easy, any coach WOULD have put Perreault (or any other such faceoff specialist) on a line with such snipers, so he could have just won the draw, and shazaam, goals would be scored. Regardless, winning faceoffs is irrelevant if nobody can retrieve after the draw.

Lapierre has developed into a role the Habs have been trying to fill for some time. Why move him into a different role that doesn't suit his abilities or style of play?

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Pleks is a solid second line centre, but he won't last past the deadline regardless of how he performs...I expect he'll get packaged up with some others and Bob will make another run at a top centre and move Gomez down to second line....

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<div align='centre'>Plex is a fine centre,</div>

<div align='centre'>

but Lapierre is a fine centre.</div>

by the way, the 'centre' alingment doesn't seem to work. Maybe it should be a 'centre' alingment?

Edited by tokyohabs

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All is said and done, I would still like to see Lapierre get a shot at 2nd line centre, or center, whichever.

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Pleks is not the answer as the 2nd line centre. Laps is even less of the answer.

We probably don't have a young guy who will be a 2nd line career centre in the near term system. Clearly, Gainey is going to go with Pleks for now, but until he finds an upgrade at the position, I don't like our chances in the playoffs. I just don't see why I am the only guy who sees that plek's point total rose and fell with the play of Kovalev, not the play of Pleks. As for the playoffs, was Pleks even their the last two years...

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If the spelling bothers you, take it up with sakiqc. Arguing about it here is just silly.

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Pleks is not the answer as the 2nd line centre. Laps is even less of the answer.

We probably don't have a young guy who will be a 2nd line career centre in the near term system. Clearly, Gainey is going to go with Pleks for now, but until he finds an upgrade at the position, I don't like our chances in the playoffs. I just don't see why I am the only guy who sees that plek's point total rose and fell with the play of Kovalev, not the play of Pleks. As for the playoffs, was Pleks even their the last two years...

In 2006-07, Plekanec's point total rose dramatically when he and Kovalev were seperated. He got something like 39 points in the final half of the season.

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Pleks is not the answer as the 2nd line centre. Laps is even less of the answer.

We probably don't have a young guy who will be a 2nd line career centre in the near term system. Clearly, Gainey is going to go with Pleks for now, but until he finds an upgrade at the position, I don't like our chances in the playoffs. I just don't see why I am the only guy who sees that plek's point total rose and fell with the play of Kovalev, not the play of Pleks. As for the playoffs, was Pleks even their the last two years...

I agree that Pleks probably isnt the 2C answer the Habs need. Like you say he has been non existent in enough playoff series to date. Thats why I'm wondering if Bob ever really planned on Gomez being the #1 C.

I still think the Habs top need is still a #1 C.

The last few Jul 1st have been a nightmare for Bob, and he's had bad luck up until this year. Bob always has multiple plans. i.e. plan A. plan B, etc. This year I am thinking Bob started going after his plans in a different order. i.e. target the more likely to work out lesser plans. After all Bobs plan A has yet to work out, and by the time it doesnt work out his other plans have been signed by other teams too. I think this year Bob was fed up with that and pulled off his plan B 1st and was then able to lock up several other low key and fairly cheap UFAs like Spacek, Gill (plans E & F) then knew he had the cap space to get plans C (Gionta) and D (Cammy).

Now all Bob needs to do is juggle some people so he can bring in his plan A. Even if he cant its seems that all his other plans actually worked this year.

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Cammalleri was the top point producing forward on the market this summer. I highly doubt he was Plan D. Spacek was also the top point producing d-man on the market that didn't re-sign with his old club (Niedermeyer and Blake).

Gomez most definitely wasn't Plan A, that was Lecavalier, but he waited on that one until he couldn't wait anymore, and made sure he had Gomez in place.

I honestly think that Cammalleri was Bob's target from the get go. If he had gotten Vinny, I also think he would've opted for the passing Tanguay to re-sign rather than the shooting Gionta. But that didn't happen, so we've got Gomez and Gionta to go with Cammalleri rather than Vinny and Tanguay.

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Cammalleri was the top point producing forward on the market this summer. I highly doubt he was Plan D. Spacek was also the top point producing d-man on the market that didn't re-sign with his old club (Niedermeyer and Blake).

Gomez most definitely wasn't Plan A, that was Lecavalier, but he waited on that one until he couldn't wait anymore, and made sure he had Gomez in place.

I honestly think that Cammalleri was Bob's target from the get go. If he had gotten Vinny, I also think he would've opted for the passing Tanguay to re-sign rather than the shooting Gionta. But that didn't happen, so we've got Gomez and Gionta to go with Cammalleri rather than Vinny and Tanguay.

While its true what you say aboot Cammy I still think Bob wanted Gionta over Cammy, that is of course after Bob got Gomez. Cammy has had more goals the last few years but Gionta almost had 50 when he last played with Gomez. Gomez + Gionta makes way more sense than just either of them individually, especially when you consider Giontas fairly high contract. I'm pretty sure Bob is hoping they relive old times for the next 5 years. Its anybodies guess if Cammy will have any chemestry with either of them or if he will even end up on that line.

Spaceks age was most likely a big factor and the amount of years Bob was willing to sign him for.

Does anybody know the specifics? like how many teams were interested in Bobs new UFA signings? or if there was any other players that Bob went after and didnt get? That would be interesting to know but I think they all agreed before any bidding wars happened. I highly beleive that this was intentional so he didnt waste any time persuing players who he wouldnt end up with while other teams were signing the other guys Bob wanted if Plan A fails. Go after several lower key under appreciated under paid guys instead of elite guys the majority of teams are all persuing. I'm still bummed Bob didnt get Antropov, he's another key role guy whos fits the above and is also big so he would have been a decent addition.

I agree Bob tried to get Vinny, but I wouldnt go as far as calling him Plan A this UFA season. Most of all the Vinny stuff was more last year so its a hold over Plan A.

I also agree with the alternate reality Plans too. I think Bob learned from the previous UFA blunders that he needs multiple plans according to who he can get and cant and then who to target next if he does or doesnt get that player.

In the Vinny world Gionta wouldnt be a Habs and Cammy was probably in all the different world plans except the one Bob didnt get him in. :lol:

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On Off the Record, Cammalleri said there were about 6 or 7 teams that expressed interest, and 4 of them were in a competitive price range. So the Habs beat out 3 other serious suitors for him.

I'm sure the bidding wasn't as intense on Spacek and Gill, but there was obviously some level of competition... maybe one other serious bidder with Montreal for each of them.

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Unfortunatley, the guy we'd need on the 2nd line is ........................ Mike Ribeiro.

:ninja:

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The under-discussed fact is that Bob Gainey ruled the general-managerial roost this particular UFA season. Cammalleri is an all-star calibre young winger that any team in its right mind would be happy to add. Spacek, Gill, Moen and Mara are all quality additions, especially the former. Gionta is likely overpaid, but is definitely a reasonable gamble given his chemistry with Gomez. All of these guys, but especially Cammalleri, would have been in demand by rival squads. The Montreal Canadiens are no longer the sad-sack of the UFA market; the dam has burst, and Gainey has finally proven that quality players DO want to play in Montreal. We can agree or disagree with his moves, but the most significant message of this off-season has been that the Habs now play with the UFA big boys (and part of the reason seems to be Gomez - which raises the possibility that, strange as it may sound, for some reason UFAs had no particular interest in playing for a team built around Koivu).

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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Unfortunatley, the guy we'd need on the 2nd line is ........................ Mike Ribeiro.

:ninja:

He is a number 1 centre the last two years, and way up the production chart from Koivu. Imagine if we had Ribs and solid competition to lead the number 1 line. Ah well.. that ship has sailed...

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the last guy we need is mike i got a shit attitude Ribeiro. he wasnt trade out of montreal because of his skill level....it was because he had a bad attitude, mouth piece, not a team player and had no leadership....spend all his time partying....pretty much everything that was wrong with the team last year...

also he makes 5 mil a year...so if we did have him we would have to dump someone

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He is a number 1 centre the last two years, and way up the production chart from Koivu. Imagine if we had Ribs and solid competition to lead the number 1 line. Ah well.. that ship has sailed...

That ship sunk thank god and never to risen again, now go wash your mouth out with soap :lol:

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The under-discussed fact is that Bob Gainey ruled the general-managerial roost this particular UFA season. Cammalleri is an all-star calibre young winger that any team in its right mind would be happy to add. Spacek, Gill, Moen and Mara are all quality additions, especially the former. Gionta is likely overpaid, but is definitely a reasonable gamble given his chemistry with Gomez. All of these guys, but especially Cammalleri, would have been in demand by rival squads. The Montreal Canadiens are no longer the sad-sack of the UFA market; the dam has burst, and Gainey has finally proven that quality players DO want to play in Montreal. We can agree or disagree with his moves, but the most significant message of this off-season has been that the Habs now play with the UFA big boys (and part of the reason seems to be Gomez - which raises the possibility that, strange as it may sound, for some reason UFAs had no particular interest in playing for a team built around Koivu).

very good point... or to the least not with a team that ONLY had Koivu to build around.

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