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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Carbo looks worse and worse

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:clap:

The team has had the same shitty attitude through a string of 3 or 4 coaches. I'm sure that the same players would have been no better under Martin.

The answers lie on the reasons why Komisarek Left the Habs (and it isn't because Carbo was to blame) I believe Komisarek (team's lack of toughness aside)... cared more about the work ethics and giving it his all game in game out like he did ... SO Much he would go to TO to Burke (which disliking him aside) asks nothing but 200% from all his players and no days off

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:clap:

The team has had the same shitty attitude through a string of 3 or 4 rookie, unproven and untried coaches who may very well turn out better later on, but they needed experience which they got at the hands of the Habs . I'm sure that the same players would have been no better under Martin.

Just clarifying. Your last statement is about as worthwhile as my efforts on an NHL ice surface as a first line player.

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The answers lie on the reasons why Komisarek Left the Habs (and it isn't because Carbo was to blame) I believe Komisarek (team's lack of toughness aside)... cared more about the work ethics and giving it his all game in game out like he did ... SO Much he would go to TO to Burke (which disliking him aside) asks nothing but 200% from all his players and no days off

LOL... thats funny stuff. :clap:

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Just clarifying. Your last statement is about as worthwhile as my efforts on an NHL ice surface as a first line player.

It makes no difference - inexperienced doesn't mean bad, nor does it imply that they couldn't "control" the room. If the coaches keep changing, but the players still have the same losing attitude, then the problem lies with the players, and not the coach.

Carbo is the only coach to ever get a good season (out of, let's say, 10 seasons) out of a Koivu-led team, for instance. ;) Did he catch lightning in a bottle, or did he just forget how to coach? There was a losing, weak mentality in the room before Carbo, during Carbo, after Carbo. Now that the old guys are gone and we've got some new faces in the room, we have a chance to wash away that mentality that's haunted us for a decade. Having a new coach only helps, but that doesn't mean the old one was to blame.

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It makes no difference - inexperienced doesn't mean bad, nor does it imply that they couldn't "control" the room. If the coaches keep changing, but the players still have the same losing attitude, then the problem lies with the players, and not the coach.

Carbo is the only coach to ever get a good season (out of, let's say, 10 seasons) out of a Koivu-led team, for instance. ;) Did he catch lightning in a bottle, or did he just forget how to coach? There was a losing, weak mentality in the room before Carbo, during Carbo, after Carbo. Now that the old guys are gone and we've got some new faces in the room, we have a chance to wash away that mentality that's haunted us for a decade. Having a new coach only helps, but that doesn't mean the old one was to blame.

Julien and Vigneault didn't get anything good out of the team? With INFINITELY worse players, I might add.

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Julien and Vigneault didn't get anything good out of the team? With INFINITELY worse players, I might add.

8th seed is mediocre to me, not good.

Our team only looked infinitely better after winning the East. Before the season, we were ranked around 8th, and the following season we finished 8th. How good we are/were depends on how you view players that had career years in that season (under Carbo): Plekanec, Andrei Kostitsyn, Streit, Kovalev and Komisarek. Some would call them all front-line players. Others would call them all second-tier players.

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Julien and Vigneault didn't get anything good out of the team? With INFINITELY worse players, I might add.

Playoffs-wise, Therrien probably got the best Habs season out of the bunch of coaches we had. Came one Kerry Fraser close to eliminated the Canes who went on to the SCF

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So you're saying that the alternative is that no one would be to blame?!!!

If the team fails this year, you HAVE to blame Gainey. HE make all of those moves INCLUDING the coaching change. Who would bear the responsibility for this, if not the GM?

If the team succeeds, then what I said was, you have to PARTIALLY blame Carbo because he had many of the players who are still with the team. (And conversely, you'd have to give Gainey a lot of the credit for being able to see what was needed, and doing it.)

I don't know. It seems straightforward logic to me.

carbo is gone we should quit beating that dead horse and he did not have the same team at all in any way shape or form the vets and leaders are gone. Bob saw what the problem was the players and did his best to fix it. How succesful remains to be seen but I really don't think we can say right now that he is at fault if they fail. It is his job to provide the coach with the best players he can after that it is up to the coach to get the most out of them. We still have to watch this picture show before we decide who is to blame. your logic is a little skewed. :hlogo:

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Julien and Vigneault didn't get anything good out of the team? With INFINITELY worse players, I might add.

the core was the same, the leadership the same, some of the secondary players were improved on or grew up, but the core leaders on the team were never successful. and squeaking into the playoffs is not success for the habs. it is failure.

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I Blame all the HABS fans because we know everything there is to know about everything that ever existed and will exist in the glorious land of the Habs. Face it, we are perfect and more knowledgeable than people that actually played professionally. We are also better at drawing up plays and making matchups work. ^_^

We are habs fans and we are perfect. :hlogo: :hlogo: :hlogo: :hlogo:

Well I am perfect, not the rest of you habs fans :lol::hockey:

I am glad Montreal now has an experienced coach as the real weakness I could see with one of my Hockey heroes (Carbo) is that he got frustrated.

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Obviously Martin knows the players have been changed, so when he says he wants to change the culture, he means the culture of the players that are left over.

So in a way, we can compare what he does with those leftover players to what Carbo did and its a fair comparison, despite the change of veterans.

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