Colin Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Sinatra eyes? Methinks the columnist was working other angles with this piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Wasn't Pyatt one of the better habs during camp before he got his squeashed by hit? I heard some good things about him. No clue on White at all, i guess i'll find out soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 He is Minus 8 and no points. I think they want some points and some defense. Zing!! It's funny how stats are. I too felt Chips was playing much better. And yet those numbers tell another story. Even Price, you can argue he's played better, on the whole, than his stats indicate, but how can anyone feel confident with a guy who has a GAA of 4.24 and a Save % of .851 in the last month? Bottom line, while he no longer looks useless, Chips remains a marginal NHL forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Zing!! It's funny how stats are. I too felt Chips was playing much better. And yet those numbers tell another story. Even Price, you can argue he's played better, on the whole, than his stats indicate, but how can anyone feel confident with a guy who has a GAA of 4.24 and a Save % of .851 in the last month? Bottom line, while he no longer looks useless, Chips remains a marginal NHL forward. The lesson is, don't rely on statistics to tell you how a goaltender is playing. Doing so rewarded Tim Thomas the Vezina. Doing so told you that Roman Cechmanek was a better goaltender than Patrick Roy in 2001 and right now it indicates that Chris Osgood is better than Roberto Luongo. I would feel terrible about Price's SV% if Halak's was .925, but his is .893 to Price's .883. When you find me all the brutal goals that Price has allowed, then I will be upset, but goaltending statistics do not adjust for team defense like pitching statistics do. Until they do, your best indicator is the goaltenders partner. Look at the early 80s. Wamsley, Sevigny, Herron, Penney. Monster numbers in Montreal, zero success essentially everywhere else. Look at Clemmensen last season. Career AHL washout to borderline All-Star overnight. Career season my ass, defensive cocoon more like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 With all the respect I can muster, JackP, please read Wamsley's post on stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 The lesson is, don't rely on statistics to tell you how a goaltender is playing. Doing so rewarded Tim Thomas the Vezina. Doing so told you that Roman Cechmanek was a better goaltender than Patrick Roy in 2001 and right now it indicates that Chris Osgood is better than Roberto Luongo. I would feel terrible about Price's SV% if Halak's was .925, but his is .893 to Price's .883. When you find me all the brutal goals that Price has allowed, then I will be upset, but goaltending statistics do not adjust for team defense like pitching statistics do. Until they do, your best indicator is the goaltenders partner. Look at the early 80s. Wamsley, Sevigny, Herron, Penney. Monster numbers in Montreal, zero success essentially everywhere else. Look at Clemmensen last season. Career AHL washout to borderline All-Star overnight. Career season my ass, defensive cocoon more like it. This is a very good point. I am very disapointed in this defensive squad and their speed. They get beat to pucks so badly, and our forwards aren't coming back in time. I am still waiting for this so called isolation that Martin system brings to goaltenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 Of course you can't just look at stats, but some of us have watched every single game for the last 2 years. I know you hate Tim Thomas, but he was one of the top goalies last year. This year he is not playing that well, and the stats back that up. You have to look at a point in time. Maybe one day Price will be the best, but right now he is not playing that great. While our D sucks and this contributes to the poor stats, the other thing contributing to those stats is poor play by Price. He is not playing that great and I don't know how anyone can deny that. He is too deep in his net and down early. I have heard so many professional hockey commentators comment on it I know it isn't just me. Price has to play better, plain and simple. It may not be enough to make this team a contender, but Price can't worry about that. All he can worry about is his own play, which by his own admission, needs to improve. The real question is, how long do we wait for this kid to live up to the hype? Why do we have to? Why can't we get a legit number one vet goalie and let Price grow into the role when his game warrants it. If people think Price is so much better then Halak (I think they are about on par at this point in time with an edge to Halak), then we are in big trouble in net. I don't think either of them are in the top 15 goalies in this league right now (stats aside). If someone honestly thinks Price is playing great and it is just our defense, then I honestly have no basis to discuss Price with them since its like trying to talk to a fundamentalist about religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Pyatt and White are both playing tonight. according to HIO. Chips and Stewart are scratches and Price is getting the start. If Gill wasn't put on the LTIR, this move is crazy.... we were already using our bonus cushion and there's no real reason to think Pyatt and White will do better than Stewart and Chipchura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFT77 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 If Gill wasn't put on the LTIR, this move is crazy.... we were already using our bonus cushion and there's no real reason to think Pyatt and White will do better than Stewart and Chipchura. I haven't been impressed with Stewart this year or last. I think he is just an AHL player. Maybe Pyatt or White can bring more to the table. I still would rather see SK up, but maybe he will never wear a Habs uniform again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 I haven't been impressed with Stewart this year or last. I think he is just an AHL player. Maybe Pyatt or White can bring more to the table. I still would rather see SK up, but maybe he will never wear a Habs uniform again. A slight upgrade on the fourth line is not worth the penalty for this.... We're going to lose cap space next season! I would be astonished (and wondering about Gainey's sanity) if we don't see someone go on the LTIR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 A slight upgrade on the fourth line is not worth the penalty for this.... We're going to lose cap space next season! I would be astonished (and wondering about Gainey's sanity) if we don't see someone go on the LTIR. LTIR can be retroactive, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 LTIR can be retroactive, no? Meaning we can place long-injured players (like Markov) on the LTIR even if we chose not to at first? Yes... but I feel like you mean something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Loved both guys tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Meaning we can place long-injured players (like Markov) on the LTIR even if we chose not to at first? Yes... but I feel like you mean something different. Yeh. I'm sure others would know better, but I thought you could place a player retroactively on LTIR and the cap hit would be eliminated for all the games he missed (provided it meets the criteria). So if I remember correctly, Gill could be placed on LTIR at any time before returning, and his salary will be wiped off the cap hit for all the games he missed due to his injury.. including games that have already passed. I'm sure Brian knows these details better than I do, but I think that's how it has worked in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 I think Chipchura was like -6 after his first 5 games, so that -8 is a little misleading. He did well with D'Agostini and Latendresse but that combination isn't available to him now, so it's not working out. Pyatt looked quite good last night. It'll be interesting to see how he holds up. White I didn't notice much but he managed to get a point (on a zone clearance, so mure by luck than anything) which has eluded Chipchura. White will be back in the AHL as soon as D'Agostini and Laraque are available, but Pyatt has a chance to stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Of course you can't just look at stats, but some of us have watched every single game for the last 2 years. I know you hate Tim Thomas, but he was one of the top goalies last year. This year he is not playing that well, and the stats back that up. You have to look at a point in time. Maybe one day Price will be the best, but right now he is not playing that great. While our D sucks and this contributes to the poor stats, the other thing contributing to those stats is poor play by Price. He is not playing that great and I don't know how anyone can deny that. He is too deep in his net and down early. I have heard so many professional hockey commentators comment on it I know it isn't just me. Price has to play better, plain and simple. It may not be enough to make this team a contender, but Price can't worry about that. All he can worry about is his own play, which by his own admission, needs to improve. The real question is, how long do we wait for this kid to live up to the hype? Why do we have to? Why can't we get a legit number one vet goalie and let Price grow into the role when his game warrants it. If people think Price is so much better then Halak (I think they are about on par at this point in time with an edge to Halak), then we are in big trouble in net. I don't think either of them are in the top 15 goalies in this league right now (stats aside). If someone honestly thinks Price is playing great and it is just our defense, then I honestly have no basis to discuss Price with them since its like trying to talk to a fundamentalist about religion. I completely share your analysis. But last night really underscored the difference between a goalie who is playing WELL behind a questionable defence and a goalie who is playing merely OK behind a questionable defence. The difference is so obvious that I don't know how anyone can maintain that Price was just Jim Dandy prior to the Boston game. He was substandard. If he can build on the Boston game, he won't be any longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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