Trading PRICE vs Trading HALAK

[BCHabnut]

No player in the Habs roster is untouchable. Except for Markov. Unless it was straight across for Chara. If Price could bring a young superstar, trade him. It ain't gonna happen. If Halak can't bring in a solid top 6, you keep him and play him a little more. sign him as rfa and trade up the draft with him or Price in June. The last thing Gainey should do is trade Halak for a 3rd liner. This team has a farm full of 3rd 4th liners,

[brobin]

The thing is it isn't Gainey giving anybody games. Martin has played the goalie that he thought could win the game. Halak was great early in the season when Price was shaky. Price played some great games and then started letting in softies, so he started Halak. He started Halak a few times while Price was hot, and Halak's rebound control was horrible. After last night, i expect Halak will play more in the near future. The goalie that Martin has chosen game by game, has seemed logical enough to me.

It was true early on, but eventually Halak would play great and the team would lose so they switched to Price. Then Price played good and the team lost.. but they didn't go back to Price. They played him until he really got into a groove... then kept playing him regardless of wins. That let Halak get rusty.

Right now they should ensure that neither of them goes more then 3 to 4 games before playing again, and I would say the same if it was Halak on a winning streak. We need them both sharp, but we also need to keep both happy to make a tandem work. This is just good management of the team, imo.

[bar]

If Halak, has as good of rebound control as sat nights game, then I think a tandum would be badass. The only thing I worry about is that, Halak did this against the Isles, lets not jump the gun...for either goalie.

[ForumGhost]

Either we trade him now or lose him for nothing. That simple.

[Habsy]

Either we trade him now or lose him for nothing. That simple.

I believe he's RFA, not UFA. So you expect somebody to sign him to an offer sheet? We could, in theory, match. Hey, I'm no cap guru, but has a back-up goalie ever received an offer, when he was still restricted?

[BTH]

I believe he's RFA, not UFA. So you expect somebody to sign him to an offer sheet? We could, in theory, match. Hey, I'm no cap guru, but has a back-up goalie ever received an offer, when he was still restricted?

We may actually receive more as compensation from an offer sheet than we would in a trade.

[ForumGhost]

Word is his agent will ask for about 2.5, which I think he's worth, but more than I would pay for a backup.

[Wamsley01]

I see the argument for keeping Halak, but we have here an asset that could potentially be used to address other weaknesses, which is an overpowering argument for trading him. IF Bob can get a young top-6 forward back - asking Philly for Jeff Carter was exactly the right approach to take, although the odds of that deal going down are slim - then trade Halak and take your chances with Price.

(Of course, the topic of this thread is whether we should be trading Price instead. It's not going to happen, so I prefer to toy with scenarios that might actually have some purchase on reality; plus the whole Price-vs-Halak thing is tired).

It is, but not in Montreal

Edited December 21, 2009 by Wamsley01

[Habsfan]

The reality is we have two young goalies who on their best nights look like a top 10 starter, but have yet to show the consistency and mental resolve to carry a team through a season. That goes for Price as well as Halak.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Ideally, I'd like to see Carey play 50 games, and Halak get 32 games. I think it would be a good balance. It would allow us to see Halak enough all the while allowing Carey to get a good number of games! If Carey can work on his concentration, he could be a great goalie!

Edited December 21, 2009 by Habsfan

[brobin]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Ideally, I'd like to see Carey play 50 games, and Halak get 32 games. I think it would be a good balance. It would allow us to see Halak enough all the while allowing Carey to get a good number of games! If Carey can work on his concentration, he could be a great goalie!

I like that ratio, assuming Price plays well and doesn't go into one of his big funks. If he stays on his current pace, that would take us into the playoffs (lol.. I am an optimist tonight) with a well rested Price and a backup who is not super rusty. That would be much better then the last two years.

[Sir_Boagalott]

K, this is beyond tiresome. Every year its the same argument.

Price is going to win the Cup. 3 Cheers for Price. And every year its the same thing. So far the Habs Cup winning goalie cant even get them into the damn playoffs. Every year the Habs have to rely on Halak to get into the playoffs. But trade Halak he sux0rs, and Go Price Go? :puke:

Its ridiculous.

If Price was going to win the Cup for the Habs, then he has to get them into the playoffs, and unfortunately that hasnt happened yet.

Ya, but Price won World Junior. So what? Seriously. Gee, what a huge accomplishment. Taking the a team with 5-1 odds on winning. Wow! Price simply did what that team was supposed to do. Same with the Calder. The Bulldogs had a really good team, and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that had Halak not been benched in favour of Price the result would have been the same. The truth is Price has yet to win anything with an inferior team.

Halak beating Russia in the World 17 and under was a much greater accomplishment than anything Price has done so far. Halak basically singly handedly beat the Russians in that shootout game - the Russian team was a far superior team (Ovechkin & Malkin blanked in SO) yet they lost, it was Halak who beat them. Price hasn't single handedly won anything. Its true. Halak has though. A lot of people seem to be forgetting Halaks Worlds experience when comparing Halak with other Canadian backup goalies experience. Sure alot of those guys have played more NHL games, but most of them have never played for Team Canada at any level. It is an undeniable fact that Halak is 1 of a just a few select NHL goalies that could win Gold in the 2010 Olympics. Just imagine, what then?

Then they say, well even Roy, Brodeur, and Luongo all let in shitty goals when they were young, so its normal for Price. Well that statement may be entirely true, it is highly misleading. I'd love to see highlight clips of all the crappy goals they let in while breaking into the NHL. I would place a high wager that all of their goals arent almost all identical gaffs like Prices are. Thats a huge difference. Almost all of Prices shitty goals are identical and are very similar in nature. Even worse is that there is several of them, and that doesnt help the Price is God argument when there is multiple ways he routinely lets in shitty goals. i.e. glove side, 5 hole, not even going to hit the net glove side, etc.

I dont hate Price or think he sucks or anything, but I know enough to realize that Halak doesnt either. So which one would I trade? Depends, but I'm tending to think Price. Why? Primarily based on contract expectations. If Price is a 9/10, Halak is 8/10 and if Price wants 6+ mil/yr and Halak -3mil/yr I know which goalie I would keep long term. I dont think their difference in potential is as great as a lot of people beleive. It wouldnt be the 1st time the Habs lost a player because of cap issues. It sucks being forced to move players but its a regular problem in a cap world. Plus like said Prices value is simply higher, you would get more for Price than Halak. Then theres the night life aspect to factor in too. Out of the 2 I'd vote Halak for least likely to end up in rehab.

Theres several factors thats been forgotten that almost makes Price = Halak if not Price < Halak even though Price could be the more talented goalie now and in the future.

[JoeLassister]

You're sure guys that I can't have my Price avatar back ?

[ForumGhost]

K, this is beyond tiresome. Every year its the same argument.

I know, right? Price haters don\'t know when to give up.

So far the Habs Cup winning goalie cant even get them into the damn playoffs.

Its ridiculous.

Can\'t decide if I should chalk this up to short term memory or revisionist history.

If Price was going to win the Cup for the Habs, then he has to get them into the playoffs,

Even if this was true, the logic would still not make any sense. So basically any goalie who has not yet gotten their team into the playoffs single-handidly will never win a cup? Well I guess guys like Pavelec might as well hang up his skates right now.

Ya, but Price won World Junior. So what? Seriously. Gee, what a huge accomplishment. Taking the a team with 5-1 odds on winning. Wow! Price simply did what that team was supposed to do.

Halak basically singly handedly beat the Russians in that shootout game

Ummm... You didn\'t actually see that World Junior game, did you?

He routinely lets ins shitty goals? I could just as easily say he makes highlight reel saves. And the funny thing is that you criticize the \'Price is God\' argument (an argument I think you invented in your head because no one around here says anything like that), and yet here you are trying to compare him to and judge him by the same standards as Luongo, Roy and Brodeur yourself. That, my friend, is pure grade A hypocrisy.

Plus, if you are trying to say that these greats don\'t \'routinely\' let in bad goals, well, I mean, we all know that\'s not true. They\'ve all been yanked many times throughout their careers. Like, you know, all goalies.

Primarily based on contract expectations. If Price is a 9/10, Halak is 8/10 and if Price wants 6+ mil/yr and Halak -3mil/yr I know which goalie I would keep long term.

You are assigning values based solely on your obviously biased interpretation with no basis in reality, which is a fallacy. If I said Price was a 7 and Halak was a 3, would you still take Halak for financial reasons? Keep in mind, you wouldn\'t be able to argue the validity of my \'figures\' because they\'re not any less fabricated than yours.

Then theres the night life aspect to factor in too. Out of the 2 I'd vote Halak for least likely to end up in rehab.

Give me proof of this so-called nightlife 'problem' he has. Go ahead, I dare you. A D.U.I., a compromising photo, a police record. Anything that isn't "a guy from work was saying...'

And if you manage that, then show me proof that every other player under the age of 25 in the NHL doesn't go to clubs or bars and gets drunk.

Theres several factors thats been forgotten that almost makes Price = Halak if not Price < Halak even though Price could be the more talented goalie now and in the future.

They haven't been forgotten, they've been fabricated. You argument is full of revisionist history and logical fallacies.

Edited December 21, 2009 by ForumGhost

[Fanpuck33]

Price is going to win the Cup. 3 Cheers for Price. And every year its the same thing. So far the Habs Cup winning goalie cant even get them into the damn playoffs. Every year the Habs have to rely on Halak to get into the playoffs. But trade Halak he sux0rs, and Go Price Go?

Ever heard of the 2007-08 season? Price was pretty obviously the starting goalie on that team that was a #1 seed team down the stretch. And when was Halak relied upon to get the team into the playoffs? When he started just 6 games in the final 5 weeks of last season? That's hardly being relied upon. Your argument is weak.

[Chris]

Man, is this arguement going to go on after a goalie has a good or bad game. GOALTENDING is not an issue on this team.

Giving up 40 shots a night

turnovers

dumb penalties

no offense

injuries

no physical play

losing too many battles

These items are far more significant issues on this team. How about addressing some of those. The goaltending thing is very old and boring.

Good points fanpuck, good thing Mason isn't a goalie on the habs, he would be crucified.

[Fanpuck33]

Good points fanpuck, good thing Mason isn't a goalie on the habs, he would be crucified.

Ha. People want Garon named the starter and the "C" torn off of Nash's jersey. Sounds a lot like Montreal to me, haha. Mason should definitely only be splitting starts right now, but like Montreal, a goalie rotation is more about protecting the guys from a horrible team defense than it is about seeing what each goalie really has. It is tough to watch these two teams play this season.

This whole Price debate is just as bad as politics. The moderates can't discuss an issue without the far ends of the spectrum completely ruining any chance of a reasonable discussion.

[Colin]

By Sir Bogalott's theory, Price should be able to single-handedly get the team into the playoffs. If that's the case, I say we rest everyone else on the team for a handful of games just to see how well he really does on his own. That way, Sir's point will be irrevocably proven or not.

[huzer]

Why people can't just see that Halak will be traded? Hackett and Huet were traded. It's already predetermined. The only thing that would make it more obvious is if they give Halak the "C" as well.

[Chris]

Yea, i'm not sure what team fans and posters have been watching the last 15 years but the TEAMS =, especially defensively have been brutal, that paired with no offense makes it pretty tuff on goalies.

I am just guessing that Broduer doesn't face 40 shots a night. It's pretty simple, both Habs goalies have around .91 0r .92 save percentage. They give up about 20 more shots a night, therefore they give up 1 or 2 more golas a game. Tough to win when you only score 1 or 2 a night.

[saskhab]

I love how Price can't apparently get this team into the playoffs. They've made the playoffs both years he's been in Montreal.

What this year has shown me is that BOTH our goalies continue to be WAY AHEAD of the curve development wise. At 22 and 24, they BOTH are playing above average and have the attitude that they deserve to be the guy. When one falters, the other takes full advantage of that fact and runs with it.

[KoZed]

Man, is this arguement going to go on after a goalie has a good or bad game. GOALTENDING is not an issue on this team.

Giving up 40 shots a night

turnovers

dumb penalties

no offense

injuries

no physical play

losing too many battles

These items are far more significant issues on this team. How about addressing some of those. The goaltending thing is very old and boring.

+1

What I find disheartening is our weakness on the puck. I'd love if the NHL had a "challenges" stats like in EHM. I'm sure the Habs would be around 20% most games. It was a major problem last season. We weren't great 5-on-5 neither. Now new season, new coaching staff, new players; same old problem. Maybe it was Kirk Muller's fault all along!

[Chris]

Saskhab, Don't let facts get in the way of a good arguement.

You know like the global warming scientists forget to mention that the earth has been cooling for years.

[rafikz]

Ever heard of the 2007-08 season? Price was pretty obviously the starting goalie on that team that was a #1 seed team down the stretch. And when was Halak relied upon to get the team into the playoffs? When he started just 6 games in the final 5 weeks of last season? That's hardly being relied upon. Your argument is weak.

I'm not criticizing Price, but the rest of theam played great too that season

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The real issue isn't Halak vs. Price. The Gainey regime is 100% committed to Carey Price as the franchise goalie. No, the issue is whether we should be trading Halak for a top-6 forward. Without denying that it involves a certain risky reliance on Price, this is a no-brainer to me. This team has a grave need for top-6 talent. It has a surplus of good young goaltending. Trade surplus to address a deficit. Common sense.

If the return is not a top-6er but, say, a 2nd-round pick, then don't bother for now - unless Halak is absolutely adamant that he wants out ASAP.

[KoZed]

I'm not criticizing Price, but the rest of theam played great too that season

Yeah, thanks to the PP. We were still ordinary 5-on-5. Once the rest of the league figured that it was all about stopping Kovalev and Markov from passing across the box; we were done for.