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Trading PRICE vs Trading HALAK


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The real issue isn't Halak vs. Price. The Gainey regime is 100% committed to Carey Price as the franchise goalie. No, the issue is whether we should be trading Halak for a top-6 forward. Without denying that it involves a certain risky reliance on Price, this is a no-brainer to me. This team has a grave need for top-6 talent. It has a surplus of good young goaltending. Trade surplus to address a deficit. Common sense.

If the return is not a top-6er but, say, a 2nd-round pick, then don't bother for now - unless Halak is absolutely adamant that he wants out ASAP.

Yep, if it's only a pick that can be attained, save that for when the season is over... or maybe the deadline if the pick is the best pick one can expect to get.

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Seems like a month ago there were discussions if Price was ever gonna get it back or he was "ruined", now people want to trade the insurance policy. I imagine that cap-wise you're gonna have to get a young, cheap player back anyway to make it work, and that still doesn't factor in the new backup we'd have to get (and how good can he be, I have my doubts). We do need scoring forwards, but we are also yet to see Pouliot play, and Markov provides some offence on his own too. I really think the best move here is to do nothing, other than to make sure neither of the goalies goes long stretches without starts. Someone mentioned 50-30 Price, that sounds about right to me.

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halak well be trade because he as asked bob to trade him...lol..He whats to be the starter and if not trade me...so what do theydo not play price to keep halak happy...do you really what to keep halak after that..iam not big on guys tell there boss how it going to be..i like guys that play hard, keep their mouth closes and earn the money there paid...hockey is a team sport as most of you guy know, you win as a team ans lose as a team..

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halak well be trade because he as asked bob to trade him...lol..He whats to be the starter and if not trade me...so what do theydo not play price to keep halak happy...do you really what to keep halak after that..iam not big on guys tell there boss how it going to be..i like guys that play hard, keep their mouth closes and earn the money there paid...hockey is a team sport as most of you guy know, you win as a team ans lose as a team..

Heh, and what happens? Halak makes his second consecutive start for the first time since... what, October?

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Ya, everything I said is 110% wrong because the Habs were the #1 team in the East for 1 year. :lol:

Ironic that the proof used for me being wrong was the year Price had the superior team and lost to an inferior team. I guess Philly beat us that year because the team couldnt score and not that Price was playing with what looked to be a broken hand, which was completely not injured at all.

Everything I said is bang on when not taken completely out of context. Especially the single handedly part. If you think I mean that 1 player can play by himself and beat the 6 other guys you are on crack. I stand by saying Price has yet to single handedly get the Habs into the playoffs because its absolutely true.

Ya, while it is definitely true that some goalies have won Cups who didnt get the team into the playoffs, theres 1 huge difference thats being conveniently slighly overlooked. These goalies who have accomplished it werent the teams starting goalie. Is Price the backup? No. If your starter needs the backup to win enough games to get a team into the playoffs then theres a problem somewhere. Just out of curiosity what happened to the last backup goalie to come in and win the Cup? Oh ya, thats right, he became the Cannes starter. Hard to beleive, what a crazy concept. ^_^

My memory is bad? Funny, I recall that 42 of the Habs points in 07/08 were got by a goalie not named Price. Too bad he sucked and was traded that year. Might have come in handy for all the shots to Prices glove side in the Philly series.

Heres the proof:

2007-08 Montreal NHL 39 21 12 6 2 97 - 1150 .916 2.55

Ya, not Prices stats.

He routinely lets ins shitty goals? I could just as easily say he makes highlight reel saves. And the funny thing is that you criticize the \'Price is God\' argument (an argument I think you invented in your head because no one around here says anything like that), and yet here you are trying to compare him to and judge him by the same standards as Luongo, Roy and Brodeur yourself. That, my friend, is pure grade A hypocrisy.

Plus, if you are trying to say that these greats don\'t \'routinely\' let in bad goals, well, I mean, we all know that\'s not true. They\'ve all been yanked many times throughout their careers. Like, you know, all goalies.

You are assigning values based solely on your obviously biased interpretation with no basis in reality, which is a fallacy. If I said Price was a 7 and Halak was a 3, would you still take Halak for financial reasons? Keep in mind, you wouldn\'t be able to argue the validity of my \'figures\' because they\'re not any less fabricated than yours.

W/e, basically the entire board compares Price with Roy, Brodeur and Luongo so that makes me a hypocrite? :rolleyes: If my number example is so off, and Price is a 7 and Halak a 3 please explain why their stats almost identical? Price is 2x better, 3 x, 4x bullshit, Price is marginally better. Look at their stats, it doesnt show Price as being 2.5 times as good like you falsely claim. . Prices NHL career GAA is 2.72 and Halak surs as hell isnt 6.8. Its more like 2.78 Wheres your basis in reality? Thats pure grade A hypocrisy. You clearly know what your talking about by saying a GAA difference of .06 is a difference of a factor of 2.5 times and I'm the clueless one? Ya OK. Like I said the difference between them isnt that big.

I never said that goalies dont allow bad goals. I clearly said that most goalies dont routinely allow almost same identical shitty goals every time. Huge difference.

Theres a lot of unknowns with Price that have absolutely nothing to do with hockey, and there simply isnt with Halak. Thats a fact. Yet everybody is saying I'm wrong because of 1 year, which Price didnt single handedly get us into 1st place by any means but sure give Price all the credit for 42 of Huets points.

redondo gets it. Sure a top 6 guy would be great, but not at the cost of a cheap backup, and like a top 6 guy would fit cap wise anyway. Its stupid that all the hardcore Price luvers are saying trade Halak for a guy the Habs have no cap space for. And I'm the 1 who has no clue what he's talking aboot? :clap:

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Ya, everything I said is 110% wrong because the Habs were the #1 team in the East for 1 year. :lol:

Ironic that the proof used for me being wrong was the year Price had the superior team and lost to an inferior team. I guess Philly beat us that year because the team couldnt score and not that Price was playing with what looked to be a broken hand, which was completely not injured at all.

Everything I said is bang on when not taken completely out of context. Especially the single handedly part. If you think I mean that 1 player can play by himself and beat the 6 other guys you are on crack. I stand by saying Price has yet to single handedly get the Habs into the playoffs because its absolutely true.

Ya, while it is definitely true that some goalies have won Cups who didnt get the team into the playoffs, theres 1 huge difference thats being conveniently slighly overlooked. These goalies who have accomplished it werent the teams starting goalie. Is Price the backup? No. If your starter needs the backup to win enough games to get a team into the playoffs then theres a problem somewhere. Just out of curiosity what happened to the last backup goalie to come in and win the Cup? Oh ya, thats right, he became the Cannes starter. Hard to beleive, what a crazy concept. ^_^

My memory is bad? Funny, I recall that 42 of the Habs points in 07/08 were got by a goalie not named Price. Too bad he sucked and was traded that year. Might have come in handy for all the shots to Prices glove side in the Philly series.

Heres the proof:

2007-08 Montreal NHL 39 21 12 6 2 97 - 1150 .916 2.55

Ya, not Prices stats.

W/e, basically the entire board compares Price with Roy, Brodeur and Luongo so that makes me a hypocrite? :rolleyes: If my number example is so off, and Price is a 7 and Halak a 3 please explain why their stats almost identical? Price is 2x better, 3 x, 4x bullshit, Price is marginally better. Look at their stats, it doesnt show Price as being 2.5 times as good like you falsely claim. . Prices NHL career GAA is 2.72 and Halak surs as hell isnt 6.8. Its more like 2.78 Wheres your basis in reality? Thats pure grade A hypocrisy. You clearly know what your talking about by saying a GAA difference of .06 is a difference of a factor of 2.5 times and I'm the clueless one? Ya OK. Like I said the difference between them isnt that big.

I never said that goalies dont allow bad goals. I clearly said that most goalies dont routinely allow almost same identical shitty goals every time. Huge difference.

Theres a lot of unknowns with Price that have absolutely nothing to do with hockey, and there simply isnt with Halak. Thats a fact. Yet everybody is saying I'm wrong because of 1 year, which Price didnt single handedly get us into 1st place by any means but sure give Price all the credit for 42 of Huets points.

redondo gets it. Sure a top 6 guy would be great, but not at the cost of a cheap backup, and like a top 6 guy would fit cap wise anyway. Its stupid that all the hardcore Price luvers are saying trade Halak for a guy the Habs have no cap space for. And I'm the 1 who has no clue what he's talking aboot? :clap:

[/quot

you must really hate price but heres the truth about 2 of the guys, there both good goalies, not great right now but good..you hate price, some guys love him..you guy can sit here and fight about whose better all year..but really its means shit..no one here can change who we keep and no one here knows really anything about what goes on behind close doors..so every one should relax and hope we win each game, i dont care whos in net as long as we win...but i swear some of you hope we loss if price plays(or halak) just so you can sit in your basement and think you know every thing about hockey becaue you right on here...and dream of the day your gm lol...

i use to like come here to this site for its great game thread and cheer for the habs with a bunch of guy from all over canada with out leaving my basement but this site as turn into a big p*ssing match for some guys and as come way less fun to post here and enjoy the habs with fans of the team...i wish some of you guys get over your self and start cheer for the team more then your self..

so heres to the habs and its great fans...let get back to the great game theards..

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I can't wait till Halak is traded, it's exciting. After every game he plays well, he get's noticed more, and maybe just maybe, his value goes up. I hope Bob really does hit a homerun with this. We've actually drafted and developed two good young goalies. I say package Halak with some of our 3rd liners, we have an organization full of them. And maybe, with one trade, Bob can fix our poor drafting at the forward position. Don't worry about Carey Price, a healthy Andrei Markov, playing 20 plus minutes a game, makes Carey a better goalie. It's a trickle down effect, he makes everyone better. Even if you don't agree, I think you're wasting your time, the organization believes in Price. This is a GOOD situation to have.

Edited by Habsy
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If my number example is so off, and Price is a 7 and Halak a 3 please explain why their stats almost identical? Price is 2x better, 3 x, 4x bullshit, Price is marginally better. Look at their stats, it doesnt show Price as being 2.5 times as good like you falsely claim. . Prices NHL career GAA is 2.72 and Halak surs as hell isnt 6.8. Its more like 2.78 Wheres your basis in reality? Thats pure grade A hypocrisy. You clearly know what your talking about by saying a GAA difference of .06 is a difference of a factor of 2.5 times and I'm the clueless one? Ya OK. Like I said the difference between them isnt that big.

Wow... You really didn't understand anything I was saying, did you? Well, nevermind then. Arguing with someone who can't even grasp the points I'm trying to make, nevermind make a valid counterpoint, is completely useless. At least guys like brobin and jackp can usually articulate some argument. You, on the other hand, don't seem any older than 15.

Also, look up hypocrisy in the dictionary.

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Stats do not always tell the truth, so using them with lack of a solid reasoning amounts to zero.

Watch as I do what KEEP26 did.

"It is quite clear to me after looking at Yann Danis' stats this season that the Canadiens made a mistake in allowing

him to leave as a free agent. Look at his career stats."

Danis - 2.77 GAA .911 SV% 3 SO

Price - 2.76 GAA .912 SV% 4 SO

Halak - 2.78 GAA .914 SV% 5 SO

He is just as good as Price AND Halak! Actually, Halak and Danis have played the exact same amount of games, proving

to me that if Danis was still in Montreal that we would be having Danis/Price discussions.

The STATS say that Danis is JUST AS GOOD. Who cares what my eyes say, who cares about age and experience, who cares

about quality of opposition, that Halak AND Price took his AHL job, the stats prove it to be true. No way Price is a better prospect

or 2X, 3X or 4X better!

Edited by Wamsley01
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Stats do not always tell the truth, so using them with lack of a solid reasoning amounts to zero.

Watch as I do what KEEP26 did.

"It is quite clear to me after looking at Yann Danis' stats this season that the Canadiens made a mistake in allowing

him to leave as a free agent. Look at his career stats."

Danis - 2.77 GAA .911 SV% 3 SO

Price - 2.76 GAA .912 SV% 4 SO

Halak - 2.78 GAA .914 SV% 5 SO

He is just as good as Price AND Halak! Actually, Halak and Danis have played the exact same amount of games, proving

to me that if Danis was still in Montreal that we would be having Danis/Price discussions.

The STATS say that Danis is JUST AS GOOD. Who cares what my eyes say, who cares about age and experience, who cares

about quality of opposition, that Halak AND Price took his AHL job, the stats prove it to be true. No way Price is a better prospect

or 2X, 3X or 4X better!

Just a shout out to you Wamsley. Your two articles on Halak and Price were incredible. I do not remember such an in depth analysis ever done.

Outstanding.

Something of note (among many) is where Price was getting scored on early in the season compared to now. Not just glove, 5-hole, whatever but where the original shot came from and how he has responded since the season began. If you read both of Wamsley's articles you can see clear evidence of Price working on certain things. His progress is clear.

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Just a shout out to you Wamsley. Your two articles on Halak and Price were incredible. I do not remember such an in depth analysis ever done.

Outstanding.

Something of note (among many) is where Price was getting scored on early in the season compared to now. Not just glove, 5-hole, whatever but where the original shot came from and how he has responded since the season began. If you read both of Wamsley's articles you can see clear evidence of Price working on certain things. His progress is clear.

THanks PMK

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Stats do not always tell the truth, so using them with lack of a solid reasoning amounts to zero.

Watch as I do what KEEP26 did.

"It is quite clear to me after looking at Yann Danis' stats this season that the Canadiens made a mistake in allowing

him to leave as a free agent. Look at his career stats."

Danis - 2.77 GAA .911 SV% 3 SO

Price - 2.76 GAA .912 SV% 4 SO

Halak - 2.78 GAA .914 SV% 5 SO

He is just as good as Price AND Halak! Actually, Halak and Danis have played the exact same amount of games, proving

to me that if Danis was still in Montreal that we would be having Danis/Price discussions.

The STATS say that Danis is JUST AS GOOD. Who cares what my eyes say, who cares about age and experience, who cares

about quality of opposition, that Halak AND Price took his AHL job, the stats prove it to be true. No way Price is a better prospect

or 2X, 3X or 4X better!

Wamsley01 you are right. You know goaltending. I agree with your point, but it is possible to compare stats intelligently too. Obviously Danis isnt better than Price or Halak. The amount of games played need to be factored in. However with that said, and the .06 GAA difference between Price and Halak I seem to be the only 1 factoring in the fact that of the 2 Halak is the who sits for prolonged times and gets rusty, yet his GAA is still only .06 off of our lord and saviors.

Somebody with a video game should play it out so that both goalies have played the same amount of NHL games. Play Halak is the #1, and Price sits getting to play once in every 5-8 games and see what happens until Halaks NHL games catches up to Prices. I'm willing to bet Halaks GAA gets alot better with playing regularily, and Price gets rusty and his goes up. ^_^

After all its just common sense, but Flame on. :rolleyes:

Wamsley01 you shouldnt say things like 3x, 4x better. C'mon you of all people should definitely know better. Theres no NHL goalies that are 3 or 4 times better than any other NHL goalie. Dont let them bring you down to their level, they will beat you with experience. ;)

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Here is a list of the teams Halak has faced this year and the result. Anyone who thinks he is the saviour may want to study this list. I still think he is a good goalie, but I dont think he is any better than Price. Price has played poorly against good and bad teams, but if you look at Halk's wins, only two are against playoff teams. NYR and OTT. And those are arguable. He has been great lately, but let's compare apples to apples here. Again, Price has not played great for long stretches, but to trade him hoping Halak, who faces the leagues basement dwellers will save us, you may be sorry. That could change as he get's more starts, and he may start to dominate good teams, but the evidence is below.

Halak

CGY : Loss

ATL : SO win

NYI : Win

NYR : Win

NYI : Win

PIT : Pulled/loss

TOR : win

CGY : loss

BUF : loss

OTT : win

BUF : loss

NYI : win

ATL : win

CAR : win

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Take it for what it's worth, but PJ Stock addressed this thread's topic after the game last night. Most respected that there was logic to what he was suggesting.

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Here is a list of the teams Halak has faced this year and the result. Anyone who thinks he is the saviour may want to study this list. I still think he is a good goalie, but I dont think he is any better than Price. Price has played poorly against good and bad teams, but if you look at Halk's wins, only two are against playoff teams. NYR and OTT. And those are arguable. He has been great lately, but let's compare apples to apples here. Again, Price has not played great for long stretches, but to trade him hoping Halak, who faces the leagues basement dwellers will save us, you may be sorry. That could change as he get's more starts, and he may start to dominate good teams, but the evidence is below.

Halak

CGY : Loss

ATL : SO win

NYI : Win

NYR : Win

NYI : Win

PIT : Pulled/loss

TOR : win

CGY : loss

BUF : loss

OTT : win

BUF : loss

NYI : win

ATL : win

CAR : win

BCHabnut, could you post the same kind of list with Price? Maybe make a 2nd column besides Halak's column so people here could try and compare. (I know it's a bit of work but it would be interesting.) I'm genuinely curious.

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i will do it tomorrow night. it's no better, and i have not professed that it was. I am mearly saying that trading Price right now could be a mistake because Halak has really only had success against sub par teams. Price has played poorly this year in general.

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Price's record is no better this year, and i am not saying that. But he has faced the tougher teams. I arguye that if Jaro was playing these strong teams especially through the slump where the team was getting 7 PK to every 1 PP, Halak would have faired no better. I don't support either goaltender. These are the goalies we have. They are both good, and both have some big faults. As well as big potential. I would not trade either at this time. Here is Price's record. Pretty pathetic, but let's try to remember some of those individual games and how the team looked. I say keep them both.

TOR : win

BUF : win

VAN : loss

EDM : loss

COL : loss

OTT : loss

CHI : loss

ATL : loss

BOS : win

TBL : loss

PHX : win

NSH : loss

CAR : win

WSH : win

DET : loss

CBJ : win

PIT : loss

WSH: OTL

TOR : loss

BOS : win

PHI : win

PIT : loss

ATL : OTL

NJD : loss

MIN : loss

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Price's record is no better this year, and i am not saying that. But he has faced the tougher teams. I arguye that if Jaro was playing these strong teams especially through the slump where the team was getting 7 PK to every 1 PP, Halak would have faired no better. I don't support either goaltender. These are the goalies we have. They are both good, and both have some big faults. As well as big potential. I would not trade either at this time. Here is Price's record. Pretty pathetic, but let's try to remember some of those individual games and how the team looked. I say keep them both.

TOR : win

BUF : win

VAN : loss

EDM : loss

COL : loss

OTT : loss

CHI : loss

ATL : loss

BOS : win

TBL : loss

PHX : win

NSH : loss

CAR : win

WSH : win

DET : loss

CBJ : win

PIT : loss

WSH: OTL

TOR : loss

BOS : win

PHI : win

PIT : loss

ATL : OTL

NJD : loss

MIN : loss

Based on your list, Halak has had longer winning streaks than Price

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Based on your list, Halak has had longer winning streaks than Price

What's disturbing about the list is not anything Price did. It's the fact that he lost 6 games in a row and management did not really respond. If memory serves me right, I think Halak got 1 game in there. That is just plain dumb. You play the hot hand; you sit the cold hand.

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What's disturbing about the list is not anything Price did. It's the fact that he lost 6 games in a row and management did not really respond. If memory serves me right, I think Halak got 1 game in there. That is just plain dumb. You play the hot hand; you sit the cold hand.

no, after 4 Price losses (perhaps too long), the Canadiens gave Halak the nets for 4 games. Halak started a fifth straight game, but Price was able to start the 3rd after Halak allowed 4 goals in 40 mins. Price got to start the next game and was given a bit of a long leash considering how rusty he had become from sitting for almost 2 weeks.

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What's disturbing about the list is not anything Price did. It's the fact that he lost 6 games in a row and management did not really respond. If memory serves me right, I think Halak got 1 game in there. That is just plain dumb. You play the hot hand; you sit the cold hand.

Nope, your memory got it wrong! :P Although technically Price lost 6 in a row, there was a span of 5 games where Halak started within those 6 losses. Price lost 4, and then relieved Halak in the 6-1 loss to PIT before losing 2 more in a row. In that case, management did step in and ride the hot hand (Halak won 4 in a row).

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What's disturbing about the list is not anything Price did. It's the fact that he lost 6 games in a row and management did not really respond. If memory serves me right, I think Halak got 1 game in there. That is just plain dumb. You play the hot hand; you sit the cold hand.

+1

At this point I don't have any preference in who to go with long-term. But I think the Habs need to give both an equal chance to make sure that they keep the right guy. As I've said before, sticking with a guy just based on where you drafted him is stupidity.

IMO Goalie draft positions are a crap shoot, since they take so long to develop. Very few goalies achieve instant success and draft position for goalies more then any other position, or junior/minor league success can be a crap shoot in projecting a goalie's future.

I remember when Garon was considered the better prospect over Theodore.

Similarly, In Roy's Draft year, Billington and darryl Reagh (who??) were picked in the round ahead of him.

Rick Dipietro was the #1 overall pick - you think Islander fans don't want Mad Mike's head for trading Luongo AND Jokinen to pick Dipietro #1???

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Jackp and hab29, you can agree with each other's take as much as you like. I'm going to continue reading you both, however, just be ready, because Halak is gonzo. He'll get a nice raise in arbitration this summer, and we can't afford that. Let's hope we get something good for him. I think jackp mentioned a reluctance to trade him to Philadelphia, now that I agree with. Philly's way too close to us, and he can come back to haunt us in future playoff series. Because I think both our young goalies have great futures. One other thing, ya, Gomez makes alot of money. If we didn't have his contract, we might be able to afford both goalies. But he's here, so I say let's see what he does with a healthy Gionta. We have no other choice.

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Nope, your memory got it wrong! :P Although technically Price lost 6 in a row, there was a span of 5 games where Halak started within those 6 losses. Price lost 4, and then relieved Halak in the 6-1 loss to PIT before losing 2 more in a row. In that case, management did step in and ride the hot hand (Halak won 4 in a row).

Yeah, I stand corrected. Put it down to a slowly creeping Alzheimer's.

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