Permanent Rumour Thread

[Wamsley01]

Gainey had several: Tanguay was rumoured for a long time, for example. So was Robert Lang, and Mathieu Schneider surprised zero people. Theodore to Colroado rumours started in 2003.

Since Gauthier not a lot has happened, but again these are just opinions on who they might be targeting here. They could be looking at a forward, or players on other teams that Nashville are playing. The 'looking for a d-man' thing is purely speculative based on Montreal's injury situation.

I remember fans speculating on a Lang, Tanguay and Schneider as players they would like to have, but I don't recall any media reports of "Gainey was seen talking to Waddell, the speculation was Schneider or Gainey and Sutter were discussing a player that is believed to be Tanguay".

I could be wrong, just don't remember.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Wamsley01

[CoRvInA]

Alexander Sulzer eh?

hmmm right shot German ...another right shooting Dman!

cheap and wouldnt require much in return. Lets hope we get it done soon

ooh wait a sec... O'Brien on the other hand is much more tempting! Hope we get him.. but like i said plan B would be fine too.

Edited February 14, 2011 by CoRvInA

[dlbalr]

If you're debating between the 2, do note the cap hit difference (you had to know I was going to chime in there). O'Brien makes $1.6 mil, Sulzer $650k. If the Habs are trying to get an impact forward, they may not be able to afford O'Brien...or any other D making around $1.5 million.

[Colin]

Montreal has been hot for Legwand for years. With the Preds picking up Fisher, look for the possibility of Legs finally hitting Montreal. Preds need wingers. We have Kosty who seems to have outlived his usefulness here. Two underachievers swapping spots?

[lazy26]

Montreal has been hot for Legwand for years. With the Preds picking up Fisher, look for the possibility of Legs finally hitting Montreal. Preds need wingers. We have Kosty who seems to have outlived his usefulness here. Two underachievers swapping spots?

Ugh, an older underachiever at a higher cap hit (4.5M) for 3 more years?

[patience is a virtue]

I posted a less developed version of this (love the edit function here!) over at Lions in Winter after reading those two Montreal Examiner links on the HW homepage, and then remembered that LiW is not the only Habs forum with thoughtful discussion.

Should have posted here instead, hope the re-post passes muster:

Gotta believe we're looking for a d-man, maybe scrambling for one if Gill is out long-term. The Habs might have a hold on 3rd or 4th in the East come the trade deadline. Despite our collective tendancy to downplay Mtl's playoff potential this season, you gotta respect the resilience, determination and success of JM and his team. If they do move up another spot or two in the standings during the next couple of weeks, I expect PG to make a serious move before the deadline to bolster our backend for the playoffs.

Nashville has two options being touted in this follow up article: Alexander Sulzer or Shane O'Brien.

Each has their advantages. Either could be had as an affordable rental, for a mid-level pick (3rd or 4th?), or prospects like Maxwell and Carle.

But I don't see a lot of upside for Nashville. They are making a serious run for a playoff spot themselves in the West. They must be looking for something immediate as well. I don't know the details of their needs, but they are even more starved for top six scoring than we are!

This leads me to the possibility of the other K dropping.

It seems totally possible to me that the Preds have asked the Habs to consider shipping the other brother their way - Sergei is a hit afterall, and Andrei has even more potential.

PG won't part with RFA AK lightly, nor should he. Yet, I find it easy to imagine no AK in Montreal next season. And easy to imagine that the Preds would make the best offer going for AK, given their positive experience with his bro and the possibility that the Belarussians might like to be re-united (not to mention the fact that most Habs fans way underestimate AK's value). Nashville has defensive depth to offer in return (Blum and Ellis are their top prospects).

My guess is that Cody Franson would come the other way. Straight up. Or maybe we send them Maxwell or Carle as well.

23, 6'4", 213lbs, signed till 2012 at 800K, an all round d-man with speed and size, a plus rating and points. Exactly what the doctor ordered for the short-term and adds to our exciting youth movement for the long-term. Added bonus - would put a little pressure on The Wiz to play a more physical and balanced game or slip down the depth chart and risk short-changing his big upcoming UFA payday.

Edited February 15, 2011 by patience is a virtue

[dlbalr]

The key in dealing with Nashville is trying to find similar salaries to work with here. They're a team often towards the floor cap wise and just made their 'big splash' last week acquiring Fisher. Gomez is not really an option for them, unless the Habs take back Legwand and his bad deal, and probably one other one as well - thing is, the two bad deals combined provide greater value than Gomez would so there's probably no fit there since the Preds aren't selling.

As for Franson, I like him as well. Nashville has the D prospects as noted above and could use a guy like Kostitsyn, particularly with Sullivan being a pending UFA and the uncertainty over Lombardi. However, the salaries aren't even close which means they may not bite straight up. In fact, the Preds have 6 forwards making $3+ million already for next season, Kostitsyn (and his $3.25 M QO) would be a 7th. If they could move one of those back in the trade, then I think there could be a deal to work with here. I'm holding off on saying the name I have in mind as I'll be mentioning him on Saturday on the site in Part 2 of my Trade Deadline preview (Part 1 is tomorrow for those wondering). That all said, if the Preds get the indication that Weber won't be affordable beyond this season (pending RFA with arbitration), Franson may almost become an untouchable since he's still young and part of their core.

[patience is a virtue]

As for Franson, I like him as well. Nashville has the D prospects as noted above and could use a guy like Kostitsyn, particularly with Sullivan being a pending UFA and the uncertainty over Lombardi. However, the salaries aren't even close which means they may not bite straight up. In fact, the Preds have 6 forwards making $3+ million already for next season, Kostitsyn (and his $3.25 M QO) would be a 7th. If they could move one of those back in the trade, then I think there could be a deal to work with here.

interesting. i wonder if PG would take a risk on on a four/five player deal: Franson and veteran Montrealer J-P Dumont for AK and Picard + a third round pick, or a prospect like Maxwell. Halpern also comes to mind, if Nashville's centres are injured long-term - I don't know the deets on their recovery timelines and assume Fisher covers that base.

[dlbalr]

interesting. i wonder if PG would take a risk on on a four/five player deal: Franson and veteran Montrealer J-P Dumont for AK and Picard + a third round pick, or a prospect like Maxwell. Halpern also comes to mind, if Nashville's centres are injured long-term - I don't know the deets on their recovery timelines and assume Fisher covers that base.

Well, since you said it, Dumont was the player I was hinting at. Halpern doesn't make a lot of sense either side, the Habs need him as their faceoff/PK specialist and the Preds are alright down the middle with O'Reilly due back fairly soon. Kostitsyn for Dumont smells more like the deal Nashville would want, with the Habs taking a risk that Dumont's struggles are due to having just an off year and that he isn't finished.

[patience is a virtue]

Well, since you said it, Dumont was the player I was hinting at. Halpern doesn't make a lot of sense either side, the Habs need him as their faceoff/PK specialist and the Preds are alright down the middle with O'Reilly due back fairly soon. Kostitsyn for Dumont smells more like the deal Nashville would want, with the Habs taking a risk that Dumont's struggles are due to having just an off year and that he isn't finished.

Gotcha. Except the habs's top priority has to be a d-man. With the news flash that Nash has been called up I am beginning to imagine a scenario where Gill is out for a while (or is it Spacek?), Nash is up to be tested while the scouts check out Franson and Dumont in Music City. Could be something like the four player deal I suggested above with Nash as the fifth player instead of Maxwell. Maybe Nash's call-up is dual purpose: a) pressure the Preds/see if Nash is ready and the trade is unnecessary (not likely), b) showcase Nash as part of the deal (perhaps even at Nashville's request...)

Nash to Nashville. Fun times!

Edited February 15, 2011 by patience is a virtue

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Hey, some pretty thoughtful posts, patience. Nicely done. I just want to pipe in and say that a multi-player deal seems to be quite out of character for PG, who has a history of favouring small, incremental moves. That the Habs have been a pretty good team will likely make Gauthier even less inclined to pull the trigger on something like that. Having said that, offence-starved Nashville would surely be interested in AK, for the reasons you state. There could be some sort of fit there.

Would, however, moving Kostitsyn leave a big hole in the top-6? Maybe not if we're talking a multi-player deal with a forward coming back, but it's hard to see that working out, especially since the Preds won't be interested in a lateral or backward move at FW.

Edited February 15, 2011 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[bar]

With the emergence of Pouliot this season, I think AK leaving could actually be an upgrade as it'd give chickenboy more time and some PP finally, I wouldn't mind a line of Cammy/Gomez/Pouliot, it'd mirror the first line with Gionta/Plek/MaxPax.

[Wamsley01]

Hey, some pretty thoughtful posts, patience. Nicely done. I just want to pipe in and say that a multi-player deal seems to be quite out of character for PG, who has a history of favouring small, incremental moves. That the Habs have been a pretty good team will likely make Gauthier even less inclined to pull the trigger on something like that. Having said that, offence-starved Nashville would surely be interested in AK, for the reasons you state. There could be some sort of fit there.

Would, however, moving Kostitsyn leave a big hole in the top-6? Maybe not if we're talking a multi-player deal with a forward coming back, but it's hard to see that working out, especially since the Preds won't be interested in a lateral or backward move at FW.

The thing about AK is that even though he isn't scoring, he scores really well in the microstat category.

I know most people roll their eyes at strength of opposition and corsi and such, but when the team continues to win when everybody expects it to collapse you need to start looking deeper than the surface.

I am not as hard on AK as most because I don't compare him to Richards, Getzlaf, Perry etc when assessing what he does. Remove the expectation of the point per game player and you have a solid low 2nd high 3rd line player. Clinging to "arguably the most talented player in the draft" and his peers from the deepest draft in history skews your outlook on what he does on the ice.

Everybody is willing to toss AK into every trade scenario that arises, I don't think it is wise.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Wamsley01

[patience is a virtue]

The thing about AK is that even though he isn't scoring, he scores really well in the microstat category.

I know most people roll their eyes at strength of opposition and corsi and such, but when the team continues to win when everybody expects it to collapse you need to start looking deeper than the surface.

I am not as hard on AK as most because I don't compare him to Richards, Getzlaf, Perry etc when assessing what he does. Remove the expectation of the point per game player and you have a solid low 2nd high 3rd line player. Clinging to "arguably the most talented player in the draft" and his peers from the deepest draft in history skews your outlook on what he does on the ice.

Everybody is willing to toss AK into every trade scenario that arises, I don't think it is wise.

While I agree with all you've said above about microstats and AK's value, and with TCC's comments above, I think PG will make an "out-of-character" strong move - especially if the Habs go on a bit of a winning streak and move up a spot or two more - before the deadline. How much more proof do we need of this teams grit and gumption if they go into March in 3rd or 4th in the East, down Markov and Gorges (and maybe others)? I think Gauthier has to have faith in what the coaches and players are saying - "It might not look like we have the horses on paper, but we have what it takes in our hearts and on the ice, so give us some more tools to make a real run at the Cup."

I think AK is the one piece that PG can leverage to meet multiple short and long-term needs (big, fast, young, balanced, d-man), and if the Preds need to offload salary in the form of slumping Dumont to boot, that has the potential to compensate for AK up front.

You know what it really comes down to for me though? When I try to imagine AK resigning before July 1st, something just doesn't feel right. I may be off base with this intuition, but it seems like something (on ice performance? commitment? work ethic? AK's groove with the city and hockey culture here?) is not fitting with him. And Nashville is the team who will probably pay the most for a Kostitsyn.

Edited February 15, 2011 by patience is a virtue

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The thing about AK is that even though he isn't scoring, he scores really well in the microstat category.

I know most people roll their eyes at strength of opposition and corsi and such, but when the team continues to win when everybody expects it to collapse you need to start looking deeper than the surface.

I am not as hard on AK as most because I don't compare him to Richards, Getzlaf, Perry etc when assessing what he does. Remove the expectation of the point per game player and you have a solid low 2nd high 3rd line player. Clinging to "arguably the most talented player in the draft" and his peers from the deepest draft in history skews your outlook on what he does on the ice.

Everybody is willing to toss AK into every trade scenario that arises, I don't think it is wise.

Very interesting post, Wamsley. I don't know the numbers although I do recall reading an analysis somewhere (probably on Eyes on the Prize) that used stats to prove that Kostitsyn is an average-to-above-average 6th forward. For me, as for most others I suspect, the frustration with AK is less that he's worse than others from his draft year, than that he so obviously fails to make the most of his offensive gifts; he blows hot and then mostly cold, consistently neglecting to take full advantage of a formidable shot and considerable brute strength. Players like that naturally drive people crazy.

Now casting him as a third-liner puts things in a different light. What holds AK back, it seems to me, is two things: character - he does not seem to be particularly strong in the mental side of the game, getting into funks and looking disinterested many nights - and offensive intelligence. By the latter I mean that he doesn't seem to read the play or see the ice very well for offensive purposes. This likely means that he will never fully realize the scoring potential that most of us have seen in him. It's not entirely impossible that he might be better cast as a solid two-way player with some offensive upside rather than as a primarily offensive top-6 guy.

Perhaps instead of trying to cram the speedy and dynamic Perezhogin into this mould (and thus driving him out of the league in disgust) the Habs' coaching staff would have better off taking this approach with AK: the same approach they've tried with Pouliot, not asking him to score but primarily to be solid in the fundamentals of the game. Given AK's build and seeming lack of offensive drive, making him a quality role player, in a very well-defined and structured game, might be the way to go. His lack of imagination would cease to be an issue at that point.

Edited February 15, 2011 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[saskhab]

Everyone is tradeable, but I definitely don't think Kostitsyn being jettisoned makes us any better... Pouliot may be able to handle the role, you're right, but it's entering an unknown territory... can someone fill the role Pouliot has been so successful at?

Kostitsyn vs. Pouliot is an interesting argument, and I don't think it can be proven either way based on this season. They've played vastly different roles on the team. It may be a decision we have to make, though, this off-season. But as for this year, I doubt it will change, but who knows what offers are out there that can make this year's team better.

[nyckdkool]

Not sure what the substance problem is with Jordan Tootoo but if he can work through his problems (brothers suicide might be tough to get over) he is what I would want coming back in any trade with Nashville, not the top guy coming but find a way to get him as part of the deal, with him and Moen, there's no need for a heavyweight goon, he can play quality 3rd line minutes, chip in offensively and provide enough physical presence that players like PK can pick his spots when to fight or just not fight at all, let Tootoo clean up the mess.

[BTH]

Kostitsyn is a typical 5th or 6th forward. I prefer to have him logging those minutes than Pouliot or Eller. Montreal could use another top 6 forward as it is, I wouldn't want to see them trade one for a d-man.

I remember fans speculating on a Lang, Tanguay and Schneider as players they would like to have, but I don't recall any media reports of "Gainey was seen talking to Waddell, the speculation was Schneider or Gainey and Sutter were discussing a player that is believed to be Tanguay".

I could be wrong, just don't remember.

Eklund: "Tanguay. There were varying reports last night that Tanguay may have already agreed to waive his NTC. I didn't see either, but I got several emails stating both that Pierre Maguire from TSN said that Alex HAD agreed to waive his NTC, and that Scott Morrison from CBC stated that Alex had not agreed to. Since players don't actually waive NTC's until they HAVE to, it is anyone's guess, but my guess is that Tanguay, like most players, don't like to stick around after they are asked if they would mind leaving the party. Would you?" http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=12726

TheHockeyNews: "Back in October, wild speculation out of Montreal had Tanguay on his way to the Canadiens, straight up for veteran winger Alexei Kovalev, based on the premise that Tanguay wasn’t happy playing for new Flames head coach Mike Keenan... Since mid-January, Tanguay’s been linked to the Montreal Canadiens for Kovalev or Michael Ryder, to Toronto for Mats Sundin and to Florida for Olli Jokinen." http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/12847-Rumor-Roundup-Tanguay-talk-red-hot.html

Teams included in this sweeps are Montreal, Boston, NJ, and the New York Islanders."

HabsWatch.com: http://www.habswatch.com/2007/10/trade-rumour-tanguay-for-kovalev.html

etc, etc, etc... Tanguay was as anticipated as Theo.

[dlbalr]

Not sure what the substance problem is with Jordan Tootoo but if he can work through his problems (brothers suicide might be tough to get over) he is what I would want coming back in any trade with Nashville, not the top guy coming but find a way to get him as part of the deal, with him and Moen, there's no need for a heavyweight goon, he can play quality 3rd line minutes, chip in offensively and provide enough physical presence that players like PK can pick his spots when to fight or just not fight at all, let Tootoo clean up the mess.

As far as I know, Tootoo was reinstated not that long ago actually.

[bar]

Haha I would really like Tootoo on the habs.

[lazy26]

Haha I would really like Tootoo on the habs.

I think I'd be violently ill if Tootoo ever pulled on a Habs jersey. He's one of the players in the game I truly despise. I know the Habs could use his physicality, but I'd be looking elsewhere.

[hab29RETIRED]

The thing about AK is that even though he isn't scoring, he scores really well in the microstat category.

I know most people roll their eyes at strength of opposition and corsi and such, but when the team continues to win when everybody expects it to collapse you need to start looking deeper than the surface.

I am not as hard on AK as most because I don't compare him to Richards, Getzlaf, Perry etc when assessing what he does. Remove the expectation of the point per game player and you have a solid low 2nd high 3rd line player. Clinging to "arguably the most talented player in the draft" and his peers from the deepest draft in history skews your outlook on what he does on the ice.

Everybody is willing to toss AK into every trade scenario that arises, I don't think it is wise.

I'd agree with you for not wanting to move AK - not from the CORSI stats you cited - it would be hypocritical of me to lean on them. He is streaky like a lot of scorers, if used right, he should be able to pot 25-30 goals and usually is among the leaders in hits. That is not easily replaceable. I really don't get the love and continued support for Gomez and the readiness to throw AK under the bus. I think that would be another trade we would regret. The year he was drafted, I was pissed that the habs didn't take Getzlaf - being in Calgary, I saw Getzlaf play on a regular basis and he represented the big center the habs have been looking for since Bobby Smith retired and IMO back then I saw him being a potential Muller type of player. My brother was hoping the habs would draft Parise and I didn't know much about Perry, Richards, Carter, but i really wanted Getzlaf.

Bottom line is the 2003 draft year is long gone and the focus shouldn't be on what could have been, but a question ion whether we are going to get equal value back for AK, or is this going to be another trade where the return is like the return for Ribeiro and SK??? For all those wanting to move him for a bag of pucks, for a team that has difficulty scoring, how are we going to replace his offense???? I also see AK as a guy who WILL flourish getting out of the situation in Montreal. Its just too bad that Martin is giving him more slack now - probably under the direction of PG to play him and try and raise his trade value - but the way he was being benched and moved to the 3rd/4th line earlier in the year was ridiculous. It also doesn't help how we can't seem to go through a game without constant shuffling of the lines and really not really letting chemistry develop between players.

Bottom line is AK is not a guy who is of any value if he playing with the likes of Moen or Pyatt and it seems NO ONE is playing well with Gomez, with the exception of a few games. Even Gionta hasn't been able to get it going with Gomez this year.

Edited February 16, 2011 by hab29RETIRED

[Chris]

The truth is NO ONE is producing offensively this year, this includes Gomez and AK46. Until recently the Pleks line with Gionta and Pacioretty is the only reliable offensive players. Pouliot and Decharnais has been on a streak lately. otherwise as a team they are bottom 5 in the league in scoring.

So if they want to move AK46 in the hopes someoen else will start scoring that's fine with me. He has had enough time to prove himself. If they can move Gomez for an upgrade i'm fine with that also. There are definitely areas the habs need to improve to become a contender every year.

It's pretty simple for this team, they score 3 or more goals, they are a top 3-4 team in the east, whne they don't rthey fight for an 8 seed. Defense and goaltending has carried the team.

Boton is top 6 in both offense and defense and the habs are tied with them. So they are close, just a few tweaks and a few players away.

[Wamsley01]

Kostitsyn is a typical 5th or 6th forward. I prefer to have him logging those minutes than Pouliot or Eller. Montreal could use another top 6 forward as it is, I wouldn't want to see them trade one for a d-man.

Eklund: "Tanguay. There were varying reports last night that Tanguay may have already agreed to waive his NTC. I didn't see either, but I got several emails stating both that Pierre Maguire from TSN said that Alex HAD agreed to waive his NTC, and that Scott Morrison from CBC stated that Alex had not agreed to. Since players don't actually waive NTC's until they HAVE to, it is anyone's guess, but my guess is that Tanguay, like most players, don't like to stick around after they are asked if they would mind leaving the party. Would you?" http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=12726

TheHockeyNews: "Back in October, wild speculation out of Montreal had Tanguay on his way to the Canadiens, straight up for veteran winger Alexei Kovalev, based on the premise that Tanguay wasn’t happy playing for new Flames head coach Mike Keenan... Since mid-January, Tanguay’s been linked to the Montreal Canadiens for Kovalev or Michael Ryder, to Toronto for Mats Sundin and to Florida for Olli Jokinen." http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/12847-Rumor-Roundup-Tanguay-talk-red-hot.html

Teams included in this sweeps are Montreal, Boston, NJ, and the New York Islanders."

HabsWatch.com: http://www.habswatch.com/2007/10/trade-rumour-tanguay-for-kovalev.html

etc, etc, etc... Tanguay was as anticipated as Theo.

Still more media speculation (if you can call Eklund media, he is right once out of every 100, so him saying it really means very little) , not Gainey was seen talking to Keenan and it is believed they are talking about Tanguay. Tanguay is also french and when a french player is unhappy, what is the first thing that happens in regards to rumours? On his way to Montreal.

I am talking about speculation based on the GMs actions. Scouts in Nashville, sit down with the Florida GM etc.

Also, the Theo trade came out of left field. I was shocked when he was dealt, happy, but shocked considering that Gainey had essentially forced him back in the net even though Huet was outplaying him.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Wamsley01

[Wamsley01]

Very interesting post, Wamsley. I don't know the numbers although I do recall reading an analysis somewhere (probably on Eyes on the Prize) that used stats to prove that Kostitsyn is an average-to-above-average 6th forward. For me, as for most others I suspect, the frustration with AK is less that he's worse than others from his draft year, than that he so obviously fails to make the most of his offensive gifts; he blows hot and then mostly cold, consistently neglecting to take full advantage of a formidable shot and considerable brute strength. Players like that naturally drive people crazy.

Now casting him as a third-liner puts things in a different light. What holds AK back, it seems to me, is two things: character - he does not seem to be particularly strong in the mental side of the game, getting into funks and looking disinterested many nights - and offensive intelligence. By the latter I mean that he doesn't seem to read the play or see the ice very well for offensive purposes. This likely means that he will never fully realize the scoring potential that most of us have seen in him. It's not entirely impossible that he might be better cast as a solid two-way player with some offensive upside rather than as a primarily offensive top-6 guy.

Perhaps instead of trying to cram the speedy and dynamic Perezhogin into this mould (and thus driving him out of the league in disgust) the Habs' coaching staff would have better off taking this approach with AK: the same approach they've tried with Pouliot, not asking him to score but primarily to be solid in the fundamentals of the game. Given AK's build and seeming lack of offensive drive, making him a quality role player, in a very well-defined and structured game, might be the way to go. His lack of imagination would cease to be an issue at that point.

I have no problem with AK being traded, it is that everybody throws him into trade rumours like he represents very little loss and anything coming back is an improvement. If he goes, then it better be somebody as good or better than him. Not a just "get out of town, you frustrate me" deal.

It is easy to undervalue a player when you look for flaws or your own enhanced perception of a player is not met. Look at Price last season. The pros were that he was 22 years old, had more wins than 99% of goaltenders at his age, has unbelievable footwork and lateral coverage (among the top 5 in the league if not the best), a winning pedigree forged in the highest competition in the world, he was getting the starter minutes and games through the first 50 games and at worst put up an average season in regards to SV% and instead the focus turned to his wins and fans began to create narratives about the team not liking him and not trying in front of him etc.

If you look for negatives, you will find them. Kostitsyn is now 26 years old. This is the player he is going to be and it is time to deal with the fact that he isn't among the best of that unbelievable draft class. Don't piss away an asset because he isn't what you want him to be, deal with the asset for what it is.

I am with Apron Basu on this one

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110216/mtl_habshub_habit_110215/20110216/?hub=MontrealSports

Don't make any deals that cost anything of significance just to make the playoffs. I am open to deals that accentuate this core and move the team forward. Targeting pieces that will make this team better next season AND this season are the deals I would try to make if I was Gauthier.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Wamsley01