Permanent Rumour Thread

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Uh, just to be clear, the scenario I had in mind was one where, first, we had a tangible upgrade on Gomez available (e.g., Carter) and where there were absolutely no takers for Gomez's contract under any other circumstances. I'm not saying we should go and blow 3.5 mil off the cap just for the hell of it.

[Willey101]

Carter is not the answer to our woes. Yes he is a big guy and a consistent 30-35 goal scorer but he just doesn;t seem to be a prototypical Martin type of player. The cost t acquire him would be high and the impact of a trade like this may screw up our chemistry really bad.

I think if the habs are to make a move it is going to be either for a D-man or some 4th line roll players.

[l.moustakas]

Carter is not the answer to our woes. Yes he is a big guy and a consistent 30-35 goal scorer but he just doesn;t seem to be a prototypical Martin type of player. The cost t acquire him would be high and the impact of a trade like this may screw up our chemistry really bad.

I think if the habs are to make a move it is going to be either for a D-man or some 4th line roll players.

Besdies, if he did really request a trade, should that not be a red-flag? Carter, who has played just around 10 games in Columbus already wants out. Meanwhile, Rick Nash, who has endured the perpetual mediocrity of the same franchise, is willing to stick it out. What is wrong with this picture?

Jeff Carter is well within his rights to be upset at the Flyers. But he is not so much withing his rights to request a trade. He certainly does not own the moral high ground to do so.

[Commandant]

Besdies, if he did really request a trade, should that not be a red-flag? Carter, who has played just around 10 games in Columbus already wants out. Meanwhile, Rick Nash, who has endured the perpetual mediocrity of the same franchise, is willing to stick it out. What is wrong with this picture?

Jeff Carter is well within his rights to be upset at the Flyers. But he is not so much withing his rights to request a trade. He certainly does not own the moral high ground to do so.

I don't know about that. Here is a guy who accepted a contract extension at less money in order to have a NTC and control what teams he would/wouldn't play for. Now because the Flyers traded him before that NTC kicked in he wasn't able to prevent the trade to Columbus. He was screwed over royally. He took less money to get the NTC and ultimately had no control over what team he played for and what city he lived in. Sounds like he has every right to say now that he isn't happy in Columbus.

The Red Flags that scare me the most are the rumors of this guy's party lifestyle that I heard during his time in Philly and then exploded after the deal. That scares the shit out of me as a Habs fan, if you consider moving him to Montreal.

[illWill]

The Red Flags that scare me the most are the rumors of this guy's party lifestyle that I heard during his time in Philly and then exploded after the deal. That scares the shit out of me as a Habs fan, if you consider moving him to Montreal.

I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that if he were to come to Montreal. Management has already set a precedent with younger players partying excessively by shipping them out of town. I'm guessing this current Habs bunch is a bit more tame when it comes to late nights in the fish bowl that is Montreal. Who would Carter party with? And who knows, he may even meet his future wife and settle down from all that. The guy is only going to mature more as time passes. But as long as he can score goals and helps the team win, nobody should care what he does outside the rink.

[Willey101]

Loving this debate.....would you trade Subban and Price to acquire Staal and Ward? Finance wise there is absolutely no way but if you tweaked the deal adding a guy like Gomez, taking a low paid player then would you make this deal?

[Commandant]

Loving this debate.....would you trade Subban and Price to acquire Staal and Ward?  Finance wise there is absolutely no way but if you tweaked the deal adding a guy like Gomez, taking a low paid player then would you make this deal?

I wouldn't. I think Price is a better younger goalie than Ward.

I also think Subban has the potential to be a Norris Winner... to be a top 5 D man in the league. He's playing 25+ minutes against top lines and shutting them down right now, plus providing offence, all as a 2nd year 22 year old player in the midst of a so-called sophomore slump. His potential? Through the roof. We haven't had a prospect d-man this good since Chelios was a prospect. Staal, is good... he's very good in fact. However I think he's overrated in that he's not a top 10 centre in the league and won't be competing for the art ross or the hart anytime soon. To me the potential for Subban is so huge I'm not letting it go, for a guy who is in the mid tier "between 10-20th best" centre in the league. He's only a small upgrade on Plekanec IMO.

[Trizzak]

Besdies, if he did really request a trade, should that not be a red-flag? Carter, who has played just around 10 games in Columbus already wants out. Meanwhile, Rick Nash, who has endured the perpetual mediocrity of the same franchise, is willing to stick it out. What is wrong with this picture?

I would argue that Nash is wrong with that picture.

He's been long rumoured to have told a former Columbus GM "If you trade me anywhere, don't make it a major hockey market" as well as a guy who turns into a 4th liner when playing in the Olympics/World Championships. He fades in the spotlight and is content to be on a losing team.

At least Carter wants to win.

[Commandant]

I would argue that Nash is wrong with that picture.

He's been long rumoured to have told a former Columbus GM "If you trade me anywhere, don't make it a major hockey market" as well as a guy who turns into a 4th liner when playing in the Olympics/World Championships. He fades in the spotlight and is content to be on a losing team.

At least Carter wants to win.

Olympics yes... World Championships?  Nash has always been a top line guy for Canada, and scored big goals in those tournaments.  Of course there is little pressure because its a nice tourney to win and all, but is quickly forgotten in Canada.  No one cares about the tourney for non-playoff players.

Nash is what he is though... A 30-35 goal 65-75 pt guy too.  Very good, but I hope no one expects a saviour here.

[JoeLassister]

I would argue that Nash is wrong with that picture.

He's been long rumoured to have told a former Columbus GM "If you trade me anywhere, don't make it a major hockey market" as well as a guy who turns into a 4th liner when playing in the Olympics/World Championships. He fades in the spotlight and is content to be on a losing team.

At least Carter wants to win.

Nash put up 2 goals and 3 assists in 7 games with a +/- of +1 in Vancouver 2010. The same total as Perry, Marleau and M. Richards. I don't think they're all considered 4th liners...

And even if so, it is the 4th line of the best team in the world. Nothing to be shy about...

[Fanpuck33]

Nash, I believe is the type of guy who would be an elite player only if he had the chance to be a Jagr to Lemieux or Pippen to Jordan. I think he's got the elite talent to top 100 points every year, but only if he's on a team with another truly elite player. I think being the best player on the team somewhat goes to his head. He tries to do too much on his own and doesn't seem to trust his teammates. His effort also seems to dip if the team isn't playing well.

As for being a 4th liner on the Olympics, it's freaking team Canada. Plus, let's not forget that Hitchcock was part of that staff and Nash was his new Modano. The coaching staff knew he could be trusted with more of a defense first role.

[Commandant]

On another note... I've found the centre we should do everything in our power to go after.

Team dropping down the standings.

Rumours he's disgruntled there.

Huge contract thats probably not working on their internal cap and he's currently the number 2 guy on his own team, with a number 3 nipping at his heels.

Frequent trade partner of the Habs.

Paul Stastny.

Now what would you give up for him?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

On another note... I've found the centre we should do everything in our power to go after.

Team dropping down the standings.

Rumours he's disgruntled there.

Huge contract thats probably not working on their internal cap and he's currently the number 2 guy on his own team, with a number 3 nipping at his heels.

Frequent trade partner of the Habs.

Paul Stastny.

Now what would you give up for him?

I'm a bit uneasy about his 57 points last season followed by pathetic totals this year. But these kinds of struggles may simply be artificially deflating his value, which works for us; and assuming he's not damaged goods, damn, he'd make a sweet 1-2 punch with Pleks.

Yet I really, really, really don't want to move MaxPac or Subban, and obviously Price is untouchable - but you KNOW one of the first two is the Avs' asking price. I would certainly be willing to move Kostitsyn + (Weber, picks, whatever) to get a 26-year-old player who until last season was a point-per-game centreman with adequate size.

Great observation, Commandant.

[Trizzak]

On another note... I've found the centre we should do everything in our power to go after.

Team dropping down the standings.

Rumours he's disgruntled there.

Huge contract thats probably not working on their internal cap and he's currently the number 2 guy on his own team, with a number 3 nipping at his heels.

Frequent trade partner of the Habs.

Paul Stastny.

Now what would you give up for him?

Ryder and a 2nd! Whoops, sorry... time traveled.

Colorado is right on the cap floor. To take away a 6.6 cap hit, they need to take on a 6.6 cap hit. Gomez could in fact go the other way (Gomez makes less money over the same time period, but cap hit goes higher).

Got it! Gomez and Bournival

[TurdBurglar]

I'd give up Spacek and Gomez/Kostitsyn. They'd never take it but thats about all I would give up.

Once our defense gets healthy I don't think there's room for Spacek and Gomez should already be gone. I like Gill but the way Diaz is playing I wouldn't send him to the minors, and Emelin is playing better, so Gill and Spacek would be on the chopping block on defense for me. I'd keep Gill over Spacek, he seems to have positive effects on young defensemen paired with him(Gorges in the playoffs year before last, Subban last year, can't argue with results).

[Commandant]

Ryder and a 2nd! Whoops, sorry... time traveled.

Colorado is right on the cap floor. To take away a 6.6 cap hit, they need to take on a 6.6 cap hit. Gomez could in fact go the other way (Gomez makes less money over the same time period, but cap hit goes higher).

Got it! Gomez and Bournival

Exactly my thinking with Gomez, looking at their cap situation... and the fact they have the internal budget.  They are one of the few teams who might take on Gomez.  The fact that Gomez's salary is much lower than his cap hit over the next two seasons could help the Avs artificially hit the cap floor.

So Gomez would absolutely be part of the package.

Now that said, Gomez has little to no actual "trade value" so while he's part of the package that makes the salaries work, he's a small part.  Now its finding the other pieces that actually make hockey sense to the Avs. And I don't see guys like Spacek or AK who are UFAs making sense to them. I think you need to include a defenceman (either a Tinordi or a Weber, depending if they want offence or D) plus a prospect like Dany Kristo plus a 1st rounder.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Exactly my thinking with Gomez, looking at their cap situation... and the fact they have the internal budget. They are one of the few teams who might take on Gomez. The fact that Gomez's salary is much lower than his cap hit over the next two seasons could help the Avs artificially hit the cap floor.

So Gomez would absolutely be part of the package.

Now that said, Gomez has little to no actual "trade value" so while he's part of the package that makes the salaries work, he's a small part. Now its finding the other pieces that actually make hockey sense to the Avs. And I don't see guys like Spacek or AK who are UFAs making sense to them. I think you need to include a defenceman (either a Tinordi or a Weber, depending if they want offence or D) plus a prospect like Dany Kristo plus a 1st rounder.

Like I always say - if we trade for a #1 C, it's gonna hurt.

[Commandant]

Like I always say - if we trade for a #1 C, it's gonna hurt.

Stastny is looking like he'll soon be a number 3 on his own team. At 6.6 million, and with Duchene, Johnson, and O'Reilly needing raises, I'm actually looking him at a guy who it would make a lot of sense for Colorado to move. Now what is the return on him? I don't really know, but I think its more likely he's traded than say Jeff Carter or Kyle Turris.

[TurdBurglar]

Kaberle is on the market, hope PG doesn't pull a Gainey move and bring in another overpaid useless player. Turris is probably going to be on the market since his signing, it's a good place for Gomez. With his play and lack of anyone caring in Pheonix might be what he needs. Last 2 teams were Montreal and NYR, two heavily media covered teams, maybe he doesn't do well with pressure? Might even be a good place for Kostitsyn, they seems to be a little light on the offense. I'd rather keep Kostitsyn but we're in desperate need of a #2 center. Desharnais is good, but not #2 center material.

[Commandant]

Is Turris #2 centre material or another kid who peaked at 17 like Benoit Pouliot.

Here is a guy who in his 2 full seasons in the league scored 20 pts one year and 25 the next.

Even if he still has that potential, (I'm not sure, what is this guy, a late bloomer or the aforementionned Pouliot? Can't say I've seen him enough) But even if he has the potential, I don't know if its gonna come out over night either... he might be a project.

Colour me unconvinced that hes better or more ready to be a #2 guy than Lars Eller.

[illWill]

I love fantasizing about Gomez getting traded as much as everyone else, but he isn't even playing to what his actual salary would be next year, let alone his cap hit. I agree there is value to cap floor teams, but with a new CBA coming, I think most will be playing the waiting game to see how it unfolds. If he has a strong second half (which he is accustomed to having), then perhaps the discussion will have some merit. Until then, it's fun to dream.

[Commandant]

I love fantasizing about Gomez getting traded as much as everyone else, but he isn't even playing to what his actual salary would be next year, let alone his cap hit. I agree there is value to cap floor teams, but with a new CBA coming, I think most will be playing the waiting game to see how it unfolds. If he has a strong second half (which he is accustomed to having), then perhaps the discussion will have some merit. Until then, it's fun to dream.

Well even if Colorado doesn't want Gomez, I still think Stastny is a guy who might end up on the trade block.

Seeing the situation

1) Budget conscious team.

2) 6.6 million dollar centre who is producing below that level, is clearly behind Duchene, and O'Reilly is challenging for the number 2 spot.

3) Production declined.. PPG player to 57 pts to now 13 in 21 games.

4) Duchene and OReilly and Eric Johnson all RFA this summer and need raises further tightening that budget.

5) Rumored to be unhappy, his father ripped the organization in the summer in an interview.

Add all that together and I see a guy who might be on his way out in Colorado, and a guy who would be a great 1-2 punch with Plekanec. If it means burying Gomez in the minors to make it happen; so be it. I'd want to be at the front of the line if Colorado does decide to move him.

[bbp]

His Dad's history in Quebec could make it more possible...

[Colin]

I have to say, if Gomer's game continues to trend in the direction it's been going, I'd be disinclined to move him for what would assuredly be a smaller return. While he may not end up being a "$7M" player, his game is already close to the $4M mark, IMO; the points are starting to come. I also see the Habs with zero interest in burying him in the minors, and little chance for a trade for another centre - even if Stast is available - because they won't offer as much as a more desperate team might offer. Montreal's game has improved drastically to the point where the objective observer might actually say that this is a playoff team and one that can compete at the highest level, therefore only minor tweaking is needed.

[Willey101]

The organization is going to have to make a decision. Are we going with youth or Veterans. If we are going to make a cup run then are we happy with DD and Eller as our 2nd and 3rd centers or do we really need to keep Gomez? Like you said if he continues to commit himself then let's see what he has and then worry about the contract in the off-season (i.e. trade/keep/buy-out/bury).