Permanent Rumour Thread

[DON]

Trading 9th for what is the rumour?

Sort of like trading an elite goalie for 9th pick and take a OK 2 way centre (Bo Horvat)?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Trading 9th for what is the rumour?

Sort of like trading an elite goalie for 9th pick and take a OK 2 way centre (Bo Horvat)?

Yes, those outstanding Vancouver hockey minds. The same geniuses who refused to trade impending UFA Hamhuis at the deadline, for reasons fathomable by exactly no one.

Another rumour has Subban for Nugent-Hopkins. I put no stock in any of it. What's really going on here is that people see the Habs as a team likely to make a move, including a move involving the 9th pick. I suspect that that's a plausible assessment of the general situation, because the Habs are a team in a Cup window, but still require significant moves in order to realistically contend. But any *specific* rumour is probably based on pure speculation - especially when it's floating around in as distant a region as Van.

[hab29RETIRED]

I can't see us contending if we were to move Price, Subban, maxpac, Gallagher, or galchenyuk, without replacing the hole that either of those players would leave, which is why a Subban for nugent Hopkins makes no sense.

I could see the habs brain trust moving Subban for a package that includes a nugent Hopkins type player, but you also have to get a top minute eating dman back, otherwise, you've compromised the cup window that exists.

If we do make a major move, I think it should be Pleks or Markov, along with dead weight that needs to be moved - emelin, DD.

IMO if you move Subban, you better be getting a can't refuse offer like drasaitl, hall, Yakupov and klefbon and swap 1st rounders for subban, Eller and emelin. I can't see that happening, but anything less than that and you don't move PK Subban.

Yes, those outstanding Vancouver hockey minds. The same geniuses who refused to trade impending UFA Hamhuis at the deadline, for reasons fathomable by exactly no one.

Another rumour has Subban for Nugent-Hopkins. I put no stock in any of it. What's really going on here is that people see the Habs as a team likely to make a move, including a move involving the 9th pick. I suspect that that's a plausible assessment of the general situation, because the Habs are a team in a Cup window, but still require significant moves in order to realistically contend. But any *specific* rumour is probably based on pure speculation - especially when it's floating around in as distant a region as Van.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I can't see us contending if we were to move Price, Subban, maxpac, Gallagher, or galchenyuk, without replacing the hole that either of those players would leave, which is why a Subban for nugent Hopkins makes no sense.

I could see the habs brain trust moving Subban for a package that includes a nugent Hopkins type player, but you also have to get a top minute eating dman back, otherwise, you've compromised the cup window that exists.

If we do make a major move, I think it should be Pleks or Markov, along with dead weight that needs to be moved - emelin, DD.

IMO if you move Subban, you better be getting a can't refuse offer like drasaitl, hall, Yakupov and klefbon and swap 1st rounders for subban, Eller and emelin. I can't see that happening, but anything less than that and you don't move PK Subban.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir. Subban stays IMHO - and rightly so.

[DON]

If Subban was traded, HabFans would see that "HUGE" trade deal they constantly bitch Bergevin is unwilling to pull off. But of course if a trade like that involves a good player, HabFans will not be for it...and for all the bluster, an acceptable big trade has to involve only players HabFans are not fond of it seems.

Is it still shock over Patrick Roy being dealt, or is it McDonagh or Chelios also that has made vast majority of HabsFans terrified to take a big risk?

[hab29RETIRED]

All 3 of those trades were not risks when they were made - they were disasters. Chelios in his prime for an aging Savard was not a risk it was a disaster.. From the moment it was made, with the exception of those in the French media happy to move an American for a francophone, knew at the time savard got fleeced.

The Roy trade was a disaster. When I heard Roy was traded to the nordiques, I asked who did we get? Sakic or forsberg?? I was speechless when I heard the return. Hell even the friggin Leafs got sending for a friggin washed up Clark.

I felt the McDonough trade was a blunder when it happened and posted that here, but others here felt it was a worthwhile risk.

If we were to move a Subban or price, it has to be for a deal that we can clearly say, at least we got a good return (i.e muller for turgeon), if it doesn't work out because of chemistry or fit, that's a different issue. A trade for subban cannot be one where we say let's roll the dice on the #4 pick and Darnell nurse. If you trade a Norris winning dman, you better get someone who is a major award winner or nomineee. You don't move a Subban for hope.

I'm okay with moving a pleks, Markov, for an asset with some risk - I don't move my core for a return with risk.

the habs like the bruins are getting in the habit of exchanging a USD for 3 rubles. They need to do a better job of knowing the exchange rates are before making a deal.

The problem with MB seems to be, he won't make a deal, unless he is trading rubles for rupees, or if someone will give him a USD for a ruble. Either he wants to exchange garbage for garbage, or buy gold for lead.

If Subban was traded, HabFans would see that "HUGE" trade deal they constantly bitch Bergevin is unwilling to pull off. But of course if a trade like that involves a good player, HabFans will not be for it...and for all the bluster, an acceptable big trade has to involve only players HabFans are not fond of it seems.

Is it still shock over Patrick Roy being dealt, or is it McDonagh or Chelios also that has made vast majority of HabsFans terrified to take a big risk?

[DON]

Chelios wasn't happy with icetime, constant fan/media criticism and being co-captain, so not like he was a happy camper and didn't Habs win a cup with Savard and Hawks still sucked.

See again...don't trade any core players if is any risk. Why not? Is not like the core players are or have been leading this team anywhere quickly. Are they much farther ahead than they were in 2011? Roster with big holes and skeletal prospect pool.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Chelios wasn't happy with icetime, constant fan/media criticism and being co-captain, so not like he was a happy camper and didn't Habs win a cup with Savard and Hawks still sucked.

See again...don't trade any core players if is any risk. Why not? Is not like the core players are or have been leading this team anywhere quickly. Are they much farther ahead than they were in 2011? Roster with big holes and skeletal prospect pool.

Subban is a monster player. In order to trade a franchise defenceman, the return has to be gigantic AND you have to have a replacement for those lost minutes.

If we had a legitimate #1 D-man in the system - even if he were a lesser player than Subban - then the deal would be thinkable. As it is, it would be a crippling blow to the blueline. Therefore, the return on Subban has to be an elite forward AND a legitimate #1 defenceman. Since it's highly unlikely a team will make that deal, trading Subban is unrealistic IMHO; or else it's just dumb.

So, I'm with Habs29.

We are further ahead than 2011. 1-2 pieces away from entering the charmed circle of heavy-duty contenders. Trading one big piece for another big piece is a lateral move. That's why we need to think in terms of signing Okposo, or some such UFA, before contemplating more radical surgery.

[hab29RETIRED]

Chelios stated he never wanted to leave Montreal. Savard was useless and was behind the bench when we won in 93. To say so what about trading chelios is idiotic and like saying well the oilers still won a cup after trading gretzky.

With chelios in the fold we would have been a much better team for much longer.

In a span of around 5 years, serge savard stripped what was one of the deepest young and experienced defence to the point where Lyle friggin Odelin was our best dman.

Rumour has it when Gainey retired, Robinson wanted more term, money and the captaincy. Savard balked and let Robinson walk for nothing. Had Robinson been retained, there would have been a mentor for a few more years and no captaincy controversy. Robinson also went on to be a Morris nominee with the kings.

At the same time Ludwig and green were dumped for nothing - although rumour had it that Ludwig was supposed to be part of a deal for Scott Stevens, until the blues signed him to a $1m contract and than savard balked.

We won that cup not because of the dumb chelios trade, buy because savard also fleeced the oilers, stars and Devils to boast the offense with damp house, bellows and muller.

We were also lucky having Desjardins and Schneider in the fold.

Then of course Desjardins and Schneider were dumped after the cup win. Desjardins was a horrible trade, schneider was a good trade.

The chelios trade would like us trading subban for Dustin brown.

Chelios wasn't happy with icetime, constant fan/media criticism and being co-captain, so not like he was a happy camper and didn't Habs win a cup with Savard and Hawks still sucked.

See again...don't trade any core players if is any risk. Why not? Is not like the core players are or have been leading this team anywhere quickly. Are they much farther ahead than they were in 2011? Roster with big holes and skeletal prospect pool.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

In the early 90s the Habs had what was going to become the best defence in the league with Chelios, Desjardins, Schneider and Brisebois as a top four. When they lost Chelios they could still survive because they had two extremely good young D in Mathieu and Eric. But then they traded those two and the young guy who was looking like a good #4, maybe better, became our #1.

The other issue was that Montreal drafted several defencemen in the first round in the early 90s and all of them busted. They weren't replacing Chelios. Or Desjardins. Or Schneider.

A better example is Pronger for Shanahan. We got Pronger. People want a Shanahan. Did it help the Whalers to get a power forward like Shanny? Sure. But when he wanted out, they didn't get the return on the dollar. So if you got a Subban and you know what you can get for it, you don't just have to eventually replace what you lost. You also better hope you replace the loyalty. And that you are in the right situation to handle how heavy the team chemistry changes.

[hab29RETIRED]

In the early 90s the Habs had what was going to become the best defence in the league with Chelios, Desjardins, Schneider and Brisebois as a top four. When they lost Chelios they could still survive because they had two extremely good young D in Mathieu and Eric. But then they traded those two and the young guy who was looking like a good #4, maybe better, became our #1.

The other issue was that Montreal drafted several defencemen in the first round in the early 90s and all of them busted. They weren't replacing Chelios. Or Desjardins. Or Schneider.

A better example is Pronger for Shanahan. We got Pronger. People want a Shanahan. Did it help the Whalers to get a power forward like Shanny? Sure. But when he wanted out, they didn't get the return on the dollar. So if you got a Subban and you know what you can get for it, you don't just have to eventually replace what you lost. You also better hope you replace the loyalty. And that you are in the right situation to handle how heavy the team chemistry changes.

I don't know if Pronger for Shanahan is a good comparable. Pronger was still pretty raw when that deal was made. Subban is already a norris winner and top 5-6 Dman in the league.

[KoRP]

Great posts guys!

I don't think trading Subban is gonna happen, the lack of depth in the organization on D is reason enough to NOT do it, let alone what a great player PK is, in fact maybe, arguably, maybe the best D man in the NHL, in my opinion he has the best overall tool bag.

[habs rule]

Great posts guys!

I don't think trading Subban is gonna happen, the lack of depth in the organization on D is reason enough to NOT do it, let alone what a great player PK is, in fact maybe, arguably, maybe the best D man in the NHL, in my opinion he has the best overall tool bag.

Korp you are so right. IMHOP

[DON]

Subban has flaws or holes in his game (who dosent); but a top 5 or 10 d-man for sure.

[Guest Stogey24]

If Subban had Karlsson's leash, I think we would have seen P.K win the Norris more than once.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

If Subban had Karlsson's leash, I think we would have seen P.K win the Norris more than once.

He had a tighter leash when he won the Norris.

Subban had a terrible time hitting the net this year. Part of it is bad luck, the other is teams prepare for him on the powerplay and know Montreal always brings the puck back to him.

I'm hoping Muller suggests using Subban like we did Kovalev and move him up. Have a Plekanec at the back passing the puck. A closer cannon for Subban would mean more accuracy and a quicker release.

[lazy26]

He had a tighter leash when he won the Norris.

Subban had a terrible time hitting the net this year. Part of it is bad luck, the other is teams prepare for him on the powerplay and know Montreal always brings the puck back to him.

I'm hoping Muller suggests using Subban like we did Kovalev and move him up. Have a Plekanec at the back passing the puck. A closer cannon for Subban would mean more accuracy and a quicker release.

I hear ya, but ugh.... do you remember the Pleks at the point experiment?

I'd prefer Markov back there and an umbrella formation with Chucky on the other side. Sure Markov's old legs would get burned for a few shorties, but it may still prove worthwhile overall.

[DON]

Rumoured (Craig Custance) that Minni may offer up 15th pick for young roster player, doubt Habs would have any youngsters that, they would want to swap and also would entice Minni to cough up pick.

[dlbalr]

From Pierre LeBrun:

For starters, I get asked so often by fans about the future of P.K. Subban with his no-movement clause kicking in July 1.

As far as I can tell, I don’t believe the Montreal Canadiens are phoning teams about him. However, I know of at least one team that’s contacted the Habs about Subban, and it didn’t go anywhere.

Which is to say: I would put the odds of Subban getting traded before July 1 at about 5 percent. But I’m not ready to say it’s 100 percent it won’t happen because you just never know what kind of offer might come the way of GM Marc Bergevin.

"I don’t think they’re moving Subban but I also think Bergevin has to listen because why not?" said one Western Conference NHL team executive. "But it would take a huge offer. I don’t see it happening."

Added another rival team executive: "The prudent thing for Bergy to do is to listen. You have to with the no-move coming. But I don’t think he moves him."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/42569/rumblings-p-k-subbans-next-move-steven-stamkos-status-milan-lucic-relocation-odds

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Hey, as GM, I would listen to any offer that another GM wants to pitch. But it would have to be a mega deal to make me move Subban, and that MB seems to feel the same way simply suggests he isn't a nut.

[Bishop Montgomery]

Why

[Bishop Montgomery]

Habs desperately need young depth

[habs rule]

Subban is young talent.

[Commandant]

In the vast majority of trades the team that gets the top player wins the trade. Thats why it would take a knock your socks off offer for me to move P.K., cause i'm pretty sure I'm moving the best player in the deal, so the overpayment with depth better be big.

[C-Love]

Hard to say, if you moved PK for a couple high end prospects and a young roster player, while at the same time freeing up cap space to sign Stamkos then I could see it being a good move. The key in all of that is enticing Stamkos to Mtl however. I would have no issues trading PK in that situation.