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51 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

To me is either the add that piece now or they blow up the team and follow the leaf's path.

 

And what path is that? Be a bottom dweller and joke of franchise for a few decades, who finally got a franchise changing draft pick? Worked for Chicago as well, so just need to suck for multiple years in a row and you want to just mail in next couple years.

Which GM and coaching staff will sign up for the unprecedented blowback from an local media, politicians and fans. Also Molson would need to try sell that plan...somehow.

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I don't believe in tanking and, in fact, I don't believe that most Tankers are really sincere. When the average fan talks about wanting his franchise to tank, he means he wants 1-2 years of badness, which the team uses to draft generational, franchise-players and then goes on a sustained run of contention and wins a Cup. But first of all, badness neither guarantees a first overall pick - heck, in the lottery era, finishing 31st overall nets you only about an 18.5% chance of drafting at #1 - nor that that first overall pick, if you do get it, will be one of those franchise players. Secondly, the path of a rebuild-via-tank seldom works so smoothly that you only need to endure a couple of years of pain before you clearly arc upwards towards the sunlit plains. Quite often it goes on for years and years with no real clear-cut success - e.g., Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida, NYI.

 

I'm all in favour of blowing up this POS management group. If that's what we mean by 'blowing it up,' then bring it on. Insofar as the Habs should emulate the Leafs, that's what they should do: assemble absolutely the best management group possible and let them go to work. But just shipping out every player over 27 is not going to bring us any closer to the Cup. The roster (as opposed to the mismanagement group) does need intelligent major surgery...but surgery takes a scalpel, not a blunderbuss.

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I prefer to talk myself into "drinking the koolaid" and I've made the choice to trust Molson that he has a plan... as a Canadiens fan that's what I've resigned myself to.

But if they cannot add a legit top centre, I want them to get rid of management and to get new people to blow up the team and rebuild for 4-5 years from now

 

whatching  Subban shine with the Preds is unbearable if we do not contend with Weber and Price in the lineup

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4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I personally don't want a rebuild; and for me the only way the PK trade makes sense is if we win a cup with Price/Weber.

So, following that logic: for me either we get the missing pieces or we blow it up. To me that is : a legit 1C, a legit 1LD and a solid LD to let Petry loose

The PK trade will never make sense.  You can keep Weber and price together until they are 50.  That is not going to change the fact that it was a horrible trade and a colossal mistake:  we lost the trade.  We may as well move Weber now when he still has value, otherwise we risk getting the same return for him as the flames got for Iginla.  The flames were what we are now.  Delusional in thinking we are two pieces away from a cup.  They had iginla and kipper for years and thought they could repeat 2004 all over again.  We’re basically the flames without a finals appearance.

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7 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The PK trade will never make sense.  You can keep Weber and price together until they are 50.  That is not going to change the fact that it was a horrible trade and a colossal mistake:  we lost the trade.  We may as well move Weber now when he still has value, otherwise we risk getting the same return for him as the flames got for Iginla.  The flames were what we are now.  Delusional in thinking we are two pieces away from a cup.  They had iginla and kipper for years and thought they could repeat 2004 all over again.  We’re basically the flames without a finals appearance.

I'm not there yet hab29. 

 

As Torontohab would say, I do not want to feel leafy, so I hope

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5 hours ago, DON said:

and?

 

He's a shitty reporter who has never had a real scoop on trade rumours, and he's a shittier human being who was harassing people over the internet. 

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4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I'm not there yet hab29. 

 

As Torontohab would say, I do not want to feel leafy, so I hope

 

But its so much more fun to do this all the time. 

 

980x.jpg

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1 minute ago, Commandant said:

 

But its so much more fun to do this all the time. 

 

980x.jpg

:lol:

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8 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

But its so much more fun to do this all the time. 

 

980x.jpg

So you think they will make the playoffs next year like you thought they would this year??? Or are you going to shrug this season off as bad puck luck as usual?

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The thing with the “blow it all up” crowd is that they are forgetting that players like Weber and Price can be absolute studs for a competitive team. I believe in Pacioretty as well but I’ll leave him out of it, as the proof has yet to be in the pudding. They focus on the fact that we are not a competitive team and instead of trying to find ways we could surround players like Price and Weber with talent, they say we may as well blow it all up.

 

Is it a likely scenario that we win the cup next year? Certainly not. Is it possible to be competitive next year? With players like Weber and Price as well as moves on the way (not just because, but because we have cap space) it should even be likely.

 

If the crystal ball says that Price is never going to reach a high level again, and Weber’s surgery is career re-defining, then that’s the reason we should blow it all up. I haven’t been convinced of either of those scenarios yet, but it could just be wishful thinking. 

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Prior to this season I had many a post stating that this was the first time in my life that I didn’t believe we had a chance at a Stanley Cup. 

 

With that hat being said, those posts were made around September, right before the season. People who are already saying we cannot compete next year are either those who are negative year after year, or should be general managers in the league themselves, if they turn out to be correct.

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6 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

The thing with the “blow it all up” crowd is that they are forgetting that players like Weber and Price can be absolute studs for a competitive team. I believe in Pacioretty as well but I’ll leave him out of it, as the proof has yet to be in the pudding. They focus on the fact that we are not a competitive team and instead of trying to find ways we could surround players like Price and Weber with talent, they say we may as well blow it all up.

 

Is it a likely scenario that we win the cup next year? Certainly not. Is it possible to be competitive next year? With players like Weber and Price as well as moves on the way (not just because, but because we have cap space) it should even be likely.

 

If the crystal ball says that Price is never going to reach a high level again, and Weber’s surgery is career re-defining, then that’s the reason we should blow it up. I haven’t been convinced of either of those scenarios yet, but it could just be wishful thinking. 

 

If you have a bad team (which the Habs do) and you have bad coaching (which while Julien is an average coach and Muller is an average assistant the rest are awful) and you have abysmal pro development and above average at best amateur scouting, the fact you have two guys who can play like superstars is simply a nice thing to have and will do nothing for you in the future. You're better off selling those assets than keeping them, because you're just kidding yourself.

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35 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

If you have a bad team (which the Habs do) and you have bad coaching (which while Julien is an average coach and Muller is an average assistant the rest are awful) and you have abysmal pro development and above average at best amateur scouting, the fact you have two guys who can play like superstars is simply a nice thing to have and will do nothing for you in the future. You're better off selling those assets than keeping them, because you're just kidding yourself.

Sure, that really solves everything. 

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Do you really want Marc Bergevin being the guy responsible for 'blowing it up?'

 

The answer is obviously 'no.' No one who has not suffered a severe brain injury would trust that jackass to rebuild from scratch and do it properly.

 

Therefore, instead of saying we should blow up the team, we should be calling for the blowing up of this incompetent management group.

 

Let people who know what they're doing decide on how to proceed from that point.

 

Beyond that, I have a hard time believing that a team with Price, Weber, Patches or whomever we get for him, and John Tavares, surrounded by a pack of young and youngish forwards, is one that should be "blown up." So if we really want to insist on a fire-sale, it should follow rather than precede the results of the  Tavares sweepstakes.

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4 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

He's a shitty reporter who has never had a real scoop on trade rumours, and he's a shittier human being who was harassing people over the internet. 

Hey could be worse, we could actually pay the salary of a narcissist bigot to do his act on HNIC on CBC for decades. 

What I meant is, how he interacts with women has nothing to very little to do with how he reports on hockey. Tons of a-holes report or post blogs all the time and same amount are found amongst the players as well...many j-asses even have millions of fans not knowing what useless human beings they really are. e.g. Penn state coaches, or even U.S. President.

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Sure, that really solves everything. 

 

I'm sure in your mind Bergevin could just acquire a top four D and just acquire a first line centre but why didn't he do that in 2013? 2014? 2015? 2016? 2017? He's now going to do it in 2018? Or is he gonna wait until 2019? We've already wasted Price at $6M and we wasted Pacioretty at $4.5M and we traded Subban for a lesser defenceman and we acquired a top line RW only to let him walk but NOW we're gonna get that first line centre and top four left defenceman? After Markov is gone? 

 

There is absolutely no realistic solution that makes this team a Stanley Cup contender.

 

51 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Do you really want Marc Bergevin being the guy responsible for 'blowing it up?'

 

If it's up to me, everyone except Stephen Waite and Christer Rockstrom in hockey ops gets fired. 

 

I'll take whatever I can get to get close to that, starting with Bergevin being fired.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The answer is obviously 'no.' No one who has not suffered a severe brain injury would trust that jackass to rebuild from scratch and do it properly

Then I should check myself in at the hosital :bonk:

 

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Beyond that, I have a hard time believing that a team with Price, Weber, Patches or whomever we get for him, and John Tavares, surrounded by a pack of young and youngish forwards, is one that should be "blown up." 

I don't follow this part, I was saying that we should blow the core if we do not get Tavares or a legit 1C.... unless you are replying to someone else

 

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

 

Beyond that, I have a hard time believing that a team with Price, Weber, Patches or whomever we get for him, and John Tavares, surrounded by a pack of young and youngish forwards, is one that should be "blown up." So if we really want to insist on a fire-sale, it should follow rather than precede the results of the  Tavares sweepstakes.

 

This. Even with a small chance to sign Tavares, you take your best shot at it with the available cap space. This team is younger than it is given credit for. 

 

1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

We've already wasted Price at $6M and we wasted Pacioretty at $4.5M and we traded Subban for a lesser defenceman and we acquired a top line RW only to let him walk but NOW we're gonna get that first line centre and top four left defenceman? After Markov is gone?

 

Another way to look at it is rather than the "wasted" Price and Pacioretty cheap contracts, those players are still here and there should be different "cheap" contracts that aren't being wasted. A player like Scherbak could start playing out of his mind or maybe Drouin becomes a steal at 5.5

 

 

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3 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I'm sure in your mind Bergevin could just acquire a top four D and just acquire a first line centre but why didn't he do that in 2013? 2014? 2015? 2016? 2017? He's now going to do it in 2018? Or is he gonna wait until 2019? We've already wasted Price at $6M and we wasted Pacioretty at $4.5M and we traded Subban for a lesser defenceman and we acquired a top line RW only to let him walk but NOW we're gonna get that first line centre and top four left defenceman? After Markov is gone? 

 

There is absolutely no realistic solution that makes this team a Stanley Cup contender.

 

 

If it's up to me, everyone except Stephen Waite and Christer Rockstrom in hockey ops gets fired. 

 

I'll take whatever I can get to get close to that, starting with Bergevin being fired.

I think it’s true the team can be good next year. I’ve watched enough sports to know this to be true. Things change. 

 

There is a difference between thinking it can be good and stating that it definitely will be. I have never expressed the latter. 

 

I’m not even a fan of Bergevin but it’s actually those who dislike him who constantly predict that it’s impossible for him to do anything right and that the team will always suck.

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18 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I think it’s true the team can be good next year. I’ve watched enough sports to know this to be true. Things change. 

 

There is a difference between thinking it can be good and stating that it definitely will be. I have never expressed the latter. 

 

I’m not even a fan of Bergevin but it’s actually those who dislike him who constantly predict that it’s impossible for him to do anything right and that the team will always suck.

 

I think next year they can make the playoffs. I don't believe for a second they can make it to the conference final. The Cup window is closed. 

 

I was a Bergevin supporter until the summer of 2015. The club was close. They needed more offence. Bergevin opted instead for bargains. Price got hurt and the best he could do was Scrivens. It was atrocious. It also proved he doesn't really have what it takes to bring this club to the next level. Trading Subban, signing Radulov for only one year, giving up two second rounders for Shaw, signing Alzner, deciding Galchenyuk can't play centre, final offers for Markov and Radulov, deciding day one Drouin can play 1C, that's why it's impossible for me to see him take this club to the next level. Because he's proven it to me for the past 3 years.

 

And the only reason I think anyone isn't as blunt about it as I am is they have trouble adapting to change. Fear of the unknown. 

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10 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

And the only reason I think anyone isn't as blunt about it as I am is they have trouble adapting to change. Fear of the unknown. 

Not in my case, I am not as blunt (negative) as others because despite a bad 2017 for MB is similar to Gainey's bad year. I do not want to go through another change from bad to worse as the change from Gayney to Gauthier was. I have not seen evidence that an established and successful General Manager is available

 

Being stuck with MB, and wanting to stay a fan of the CH, lead me to decide to look for positives. They are hard to find among the pose gunning down the Canadiens management team: but there are positives

 

I thinks this team can become a playoff team next year; and if they did something like trade Petry, Byron, 2nd picks and a prospect for Karlson ... that could help the a little more.

Landing a legit 1C with a healthy Weber/Price and consistency from Chucky and Drouin would take us closer to contending

 

I do not think the future is as bad as most fans and media say

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Not in my case, I am not as blunt (negative) as others because despite a bad 2017 for MB is similar to Gainey's bad year. I do not want to go through another change from bad to worse as the change from Gayney to Gauthier was. I have not seen evidence that an established and successful General Manager is available

 

Being stuck with MB, and wanting to stay a fan of the CH, lead me to decide to look for positives. They are hard to find among the pose gunning down the Canadiens management team: but there are positives

 

I thinks this team can become a playoff team next year; and if they did something like trade Petry, Byron, 2nd picks and a prospect for Karlson ... that could help the a little more.

Landing a legit 1C with a healthy Weber/Price and consistency from Chucky and Drouin would take us closer to contending

 

I do not think the future is as bad as most fans and media say

First of all your delusional if you think we can get Karlsson for that much.  Second of all there are a lot of potential GM choices that would be better than MB.

 

saying you don’t want to take a chance on another GM because he may be as bad as gauthier is like chamberlain saying hitler is not a bad fellow to try and avoid another world war. MB needs to get fired before things get better.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I thinks this team can become a playoff team next year; and if they did something like trade Petry, Byron, 2nd picks and a prospect for Karlson ... 

 

You don't acquire Karlsson without giving up a first. If you're not taking Bobby Ryan back it might have to be an unprotected first. He'd want Shea Weber as well to replace Karlsson in addition. Karlsson had a bad year but was still close to a point per game defenceman that logs huge minutes. He's one of the best defencemen in the league and 27 years old. You don't get him for less than what the Capitals paid for Shattenkirk.

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43 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

First of all your delusional if you think we can get Karlsson for that much.  Second of all there are a lot of potential GM choices that would be better than MB.

 

saying you don’t want to take a chance on another GM because he may be as bad as gauthier is like chamberlain saying hitler is not a bad fellow to try and avoid another world war. MB needs to get fired before things get better.

 

Hitler? We're bringing up Hitler?

 

Come on man.  Get a ####ing grip on reality. 

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50 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

saying you don’t want to take a chance on another GM because he may be as bad as gauthier is like chamberlain saying hitler is not a bad fellow to try and avoid another world war. MB needs to get fired before things get better.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

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