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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Metallica said:

Report today is SJ going to offer him 8/88.

That was pure speculation. I guess everything is at this point though

Edited by Habber31

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The key behind the rumours is that Karlsson specifically wants to play close to Ottawa. If he’s only out for money, then yes, the Habs will be hard pressed to sign him to anything resembling a realistic deal.

Maybe his agent just said that to get other teams to offer up more money. 

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2 hours ago, Metallica said:

Maybe his agent just said that to get other teams to offer up more money. 

 

Maybe. However, it makes a certain amount of sense. That is, it's not just about saying "oh, so-and-so thinks well of Montreal." It's about a guy whose family spent years in Ottawa being homesick. Coming from a family that moved around a fair bit, I can totally understand this. So as rumours go, it has some serious plausibility behind it.

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11 hours ago, DON said:

If Montreal matches a deal like that, it would be $12.57m/yr for 7 years, as they can only offer a 7 year deal. Which is idiotic for a player not named McDavid.

 

You aren't going to give him 88 million over 7 years to match.... its more like 77 over 7

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49 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

You aren't going to give him 88 million over 7 years to match.... its more like 77 over 7

88 = 77?

Why would i take $11m less to sign in Montreal? Should he expect a bigger offer on his next deal or something like that?

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44 minutes ago, DON said:

88 = 77?

Why would i take $11m less to sign in Montreal? Should he expect a bigger offer on his next deal or something like that?

 

Because you aren't going to get the same money over 7 years as you would over 8. 

You might ask for a little more, knowing you won't get a one year deal for 11 at his age 7 years from now... but still it wouldn't be all the way to 88.  You'd be looking at something like 81-82 over seven years, and make the difference on a one-year deal (on a bigger cap) in 2026. 

 

That said, if money is the issue, the signing bonuses each year and amount of front end loading on the contract always come into play on these as well. 

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11 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Because you aren't going to get the same money over 7 years as you would over 8. 

You might ask for a little more, knowing you won't get a one year deal for 11 at his age 7 years from now... but still it wouldn't be all the way to 88.  You'd be looking at something like 81-82 over seven years, and make the difference on a one-year deal (on a bigger cap) in 2026. 

 

That said, if money is the issue, the signing bonuses each year and amount of front end loading on the contract always come into play on these as well. 

Will take you word for it, dont know if agree but not big deal.

 

From Athletic bit on Karlsson's landing spot;

 

"Montreal Canadiens: Slim Chance/A Chance

The Canadiens have cap space, they are closest to his offseason home and his wife’s family in Ottawa, they appear to be on a road to competitiveness. That’s what the Canadiens have going for them. Is it enough? Probably not. Montreal has not been a favored free agent destination for a multitude of reasons, whether it’s taxes or media pressure or climate or whatever. All those things, coupled with the fierce competition there is sure to be for Karlsson’s services, make the Canadiens a serious underdog. But if there is one player who could think outside the traditional free agent box, to look past the usual down sides to signing in Montreal and look at the upside, a player who has seen what playoff hockey is like in Montreal and grown to appreciate and even crave it, it might very well be Karlsson. -Arpon Basu

The owner would like to make a splash this summer. The best player available is said to be interested. Intriguing combination. -Marc Antoine Godin

Karlsson may be using the Habs to build up interest and leverage, however, they have more than enough space to field a competitive offer. -Marc Dumont"

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Is there anyone who can critically scrutinize this proposition that Montreal 'has not been a favoured free agent destination?' Considering that Gainey rebuilt the entire team with UFAs in 2010, I really find this narrative strange. 

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According to Pierre LeBrun, Jets are listening to offers for Nikolai Ehlers.

Scoring. ✅

Speed. ✅

$6 million a season.

Yes please.

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They don't need another winger. Put all the cap towards Karlsson. You basically get a winger and a d-man with Karlsson.

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Agree, just what would it cost?

Jets want to shed salary for sure, so picks/prospect/cheap young player likely what looking for?

 

Would Pick #15 do it, Jets have no 1st round pick yet?

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16 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

They don't need another winger.

Then trade a winger in package for LH d-man, still think Karlsson will sign extension with San Jose soon, so go for an upgrade on left side, just not a Karlsson-type upgrade on d.

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18 minutes ago, DON said:

Then trade a winger in package for LH d-man, still think Karlsson will sign extension with San Jose soon, so go for an upgrade on left side, just not a Karlsson-type upgrade on d.

 

The Habs need upgrades at W too. It's just that W is not a gaping organizational chasm like D is. 

 

The mindset that you will not upgrade because 'position X is filled' will ensure permanent mediocrity. That said, if the only major move the Habs make is to add Karlsson (and maybe a decent backup) I'd be happy.

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21 minutes ago, DON said:

Agree, just what would it cost?

Jets want to shed salary for sure, so picks/prospect/cheap young player likely what looking for?

 

Would Pick #15 do it, Jets have no 1st round pick yet?

I would part with pick #15 💯, although it will probably cost more. And I’d be willing to do it for a young, fast goal scorer which we don’t have right now.

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35 minutes ago, EMELINATOR said:

I would part with pick #15 💯, although it will probably cost more. And I’d be willing to do it for a young, fast goal scorer which we don’t have right now.

 

What the hell happened to his production last season, though?

 

Anyhow, assuming the pro scouts confirm that there is nothing fundamentally wrong, I'd trade the #15 for sure in return for him. Kind of a no-brainer, really.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Is there anyone who can critically scrutinize this proposition that Montreal 'has not been a favoured free agent destination?' Considering that Gainey rebuilt the entire team with UFAs in 2010, I really find this narrative strange. 

 

Since the 2009 splurge... (Cammalleri and Gionta) we've signed exactly two big UFAs... Erik Cole and Alex Radulov.   Thats it in terms of big name guys on the open market. 

 

There are a number of reasons for it, but it doesn't change the fact we aren't attracting names... and weren't prior to the 2009 splurge either. 

 

So i don't think its an unfair narrative to say we haven't been a favoured UFA destination. 

 

The reasons for it and how to fix it, very much up for debate and some of the narratives there I think are wrong... but the facts are that we aren't getting the guys we've gone for 

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1 hour ago, Habber31 said:

They don't need another winger. Put all the cap towards Karlsson. You basically get a winger and a d-man with Karlsson.

 

If you can get Karlsson.  Its no guarantee.  It looks like he will listen to the Habs, but that doesn't mean we are the only team he's willing to listen to, or that we are even the top team.  He might get an offer he likes better from New York or San Jose or Tampa, or whoever.  

 

We need a talented player, and if we can't get Karlsson, I don't mind getting a talented winger who is still just 23.

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24 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

What the hell happened to his production last season, though?

 

Anyhow, assuming the pro scouts confirm that there is nothing fundamentally wrong, I'd trade the #15 for sure in return for him. Kind of a no-brainer, really.

Missed 20 games last season. Had a shoulder injury which in most cases can be often lingering.

 

He was bounced around lines quite a bit also but still managed a goal every 3 games.

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Also Laine had a very inconsistent year.  He was really hot and cold which effected his linemates production.  They got him the puck and he wasn't scoring at some points, and at others everything he touched went in. 

If he wasn't on his line when he was hot... either through injury or line juggling... but was when he was cold, it would effect the numbers and wouldnt' even be his fault.

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He also played on the much less dangerous 2nd PP unit. He would definitely be a focal point on our #1 with his scoring ability.

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58 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Since the 2009 splurge... (Cammalleri and Gionta) we've signed exactly two big UFAs... Erik Cole and Alex Radulov.   Thats it in terms of big name guys on the open market. 

 

There are a number of reasons for it, but it doesn't change the fact we aren't attracting names... and weren't prior to the 2009 splurge either. 

 

So i don't think its an unfair narrative to say we haven't been a favoured UFA destination. 

 

The reasons for it and how to fix it, very much up for debate and some of the narratives there I think are wrong... but the facts are that we aren't getting the guys we've gone for 

 

Well, there are others, such as Alzner (!) - who we now know to be garbage, but would have be sought after as a mid-range guy, and Jeff Petry, who was not technically UFA but opted not to go to market in order to stay with the Habs. The latter would have been a pretty prized UFA, if memory serves.

 

I guess I'd have to agree that the Habs "haven't been a favoured UFA destination." But I think this narrative is sometimes elided into "UFAs avoid Montreal," which seems to me untrue as a general statement. What we have not generally done is bag the top-end elite UFA. I'll have to concede that. We seem to do fine with mid-range guys.

 

Who are these "favoured UFA destinations" anyway? Toronto and New York spring to mind. Sunbelt teams seem to have an edge over wintry northern climes. Other than that, it seems to be whichever teams appear to offer the most exciting chance to win. There was a time when Detroit could vacuum up UFAs at will; I'm not so sure that's so true now. In other words, if the Habs were ever able to really position themselves as an elite NHL team (which we have not been able to do since about 1993) they would probably start attracting the top-end UFAs. (It may be telling that Petry signed on after he became convinced that the Price/PK/Pleks/Patches team was on the cusp of contending).

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Petry i look at differently.  Anytime you trade for a player and have the chance to have him in the city for 2 months and sell him on that and change the perception of the team and the organization and the city... I think its different then attracting a UFA. 

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I'm not sure about the whole taxes thing as a reason for avoiding Montreal but I think most players understand that if they sign in Montreal or Toronto, everything they do is going to be scrutinized to death. Their lives become public and the fish bowl existence begins. 

 

Some players will welcome and thrive while others will hate it.

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Not having won a cup in 25 years, havent even had an all star forward since Kovalev a decade ago or even a top ten scorer since 1983,  likely factors in as well.

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Other then the media/fish bowl "pressure" where is the LA Lakers/ NY Knicks/Nets rock stardom of Montreal?

 

A "media" Giant is part owner of this Team and yet no player is "incentivized" to diversify income revenues outside of the rink. Fan over love is easier to accept in a "fish bowl environment" when your bank books can't hold all the zeros after the 1 in the "deposit" side. Well it would be for me, lolll

 

I get hockey players are not as (bball players) "marketing" friendly but (imho) that is BS. In Canada you have some real "clean cut" boys image of (some) hockey players.

The only reason it isn't happening is bcuz the Habs don't want it to happen. Give x "superstar" player a good hockey wage but have a nudge nudge wink wink deal; player x will get: adds, cameos and what ever else to amount y to aide the close.

Didn't the Leafs try that with Stamkos and Canadian Tire? I'm sure I heard they offered something like that.

 

Molson pretty much has their products in Every restaurant/bistro/bar in this city/province maybe even country. Can't tell me; they can't make a hockey star into a cross country poster boy in Bunch of bars, to add to a hockey contract! I just don't think they are being "creative" enough with contracts, that or; they just don't want a "superstar" here, idk:surrender:

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