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I think it's going to be a quiet day overall....................and I don't think we're going to pull the trigger on a "big" deal.

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I think it's going to be a quiet day overall....................and I don't think we're going to pull the trigger on a "big" deal.

It might all start at around noon, when teams will know the results for the waivers.

e.g. If the pens don't get rid of Satan, they can't trade for Ryan Malone. (real example)

e.g. If the habs do not get Morrison (puke! well, at least he's free) they might try to trade for Nylander (puke puke puke!) (I hope it's not a real example!! please!)

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It might all start at around noon, when teams will know the results for the waivers.

e.g. If the pens don't get rid of Satan, they can't trade for Ryan Malone. (real example)

e.g. If the habs do not get Morrison (puke! well, at least he's free) they might try to trade for Nylander (puke puke puke!) (I hope it's not a real example!! please!)

If there's no cap room for Jokinen (as per Pierre Lebrun), there better not be room for those two.

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according to a guy who's apparently credible at Chfans.com (so not really credible after all :P) Lecavalier talks are back on the table and Bob and the whole back office has been on that for the last 12-24 hours or so... :s

take it with a ton of salt, I'd say.

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according to a guy who's apparently credible at Chfans.com (so not really credible after all :P) Lecavalier talks are back on the table and Bob and the whole back office has been on that for the last 12-24 hours or so... :s

take it with a ton of salt, I'd say.

Salt mine?

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I'm guessing that Gainey is going with the team we have and hope that they can get confident and play to their full potential for at least a little while this season.

If there is a full potential to be reached now is as good a time as any to reach it. GO HABS GO!!!!!!

I suppose it's safe to assume if we don't, this team will officially be blown up this summer. My only fear is that spots will be hard to fill with the amount of players that don't want to come here.

Boy oh Boy. I don't blame Gainey. His hands are tide, I just wish he was a little riskier. I would have loved to see a surprise Vinny deal but oh well. At least we have one more saga to look forward to this summer.

Personally if Tampa wants Markov and Pleks I say go for it.

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This team needs more competent defensemen, not less.

Lecavalier is eye candy, but he is of no use if your defense breaks down and is as soft on the puck as this one.

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This team needs more competent defensemen, not less.

Lecavalier is eye candy, but he is of no use if your defense breaks down and is as soft on the puck as this one.

they need more a team defensive system rather than A defenseman per se. mind you I wouldn't mind beauchemin back !!

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Yes, we need a system. In fact, if you look at our personnel, we have an awesome team. More bodies is not the answer. In short, I am officially starting to turn against Carbo.

And all this love for Lecavalier! Yes, he's an awesome player. But can I ask - have ANY of you Vinny-boosters given any thought to how his contract will look in two years when the cap shrinks to $45 mil? Or when Vinny is 38 and washed up and we're paying him a gagillion dollars to score 15 goals in a cap system? Just asking. Tampa Bay didn't have to give him that preposterous contract, but they did, and that should at least dampen our enthusiasm for acquiring him.

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Yes, we need a system. In fact, if you look at our personnel, we have an awesome team. More bodies is not the answer. In short, I am officially starting to turn against Carbo.

And all this love for Lecavalier! Yes, he's an awesome player. But can I ask - have ANY of you Vinny-boosters given any thought to how his contract will look in two years when the cap shrinks to $45 mil? Or when Vinny is 38 and washed up and we're paying him a gagillion dollars to score 15 goals in a cap system? Just asking. Tampa Bay didn't have to give him that preposterous contract, but they did, and that should at least dampen our enthusiasm for acquiring him.

My largest frustration with this team is a lack of identity.

I thought when Gainey brought in Carbo/Jarvis/Muller and drafted Price with the 5th pick that they were going

to mimic the Stars/Devils model.

I expected a return to the 1980s model of the Canadiens that was top 5 defensively every season. With Komisarek

maturing, loading up on d-men in the draft and bringing in Hamrlik to replace Souray I assumed they were on their way.

But I am still waiting and I don't think Carbo will ever deliver the goods.

This team looks more like the 2002-2004 team where when they do get a lead they passively sit back and allow

their opponent easy access to the zone as they try to keep things to the outside as they get peppered with shots.

They did this against the Sharks and as much as everybody has adopted Halak as the saviour they were a couple of

posts away from a monster collapse.

If this is the way they are going to play then they will not make the playoffs.

I don't like to fire coaches because of slumps. I don't like to jump to simple conclusions or scapegoat individuals.

But I am really confused as to where this team is going? Two seasons ago I thought I knew the blueprint and path,

but today, I have no idea what they do well anymore. I don't understand what the end goal is anymore.

How long can you sit on your prospects? You need to cash in on them before the pretenders are exposed.

How long can you be patient with a coach who has not stamped his personality on the team? They are getting

worse, not better. A team that is well coached is a reflection of their coach.

A Pat Burns team usually struggled out of the gate until he convinced them to play his way. When that team

committed to his vision they began to mimic his personality. They bought into his vision, eventually they would

chafe from his ways but you generally got 3 great seasons out of him before a revolt and the system breakdown.

This teams reputation over the last 4 years has been strong start, mid season collapse, failure to pick up the pieces

until the circumstance becomes dire and furiously rally down the stretch to squeeze into the playoffs. I understand

that last season was different, but that becomes the anamoly.

Carbo was also outcoached by Julien and Stevens in the playoffs. He allowed the opponent to dictate the flow of the game

and neutralize the Canadiens strengths. I am discouraged by his lack of growth over 3 seasons.

I can understand Gainey wanting to keep Carbo around for stability, but he needs to supplement his learning by surrounding

him with elite assistant coaches, not inexperienced ex players.

Laying at the feet of Price is ridiculous. And deifying Halak for 4 good games is just as ridiculous. This team is not puilling

in the same direction, and until they do they are going to dissappoint.

Expectations create pressure and this team has handled it terribly.

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Yes, we need a system. In fact, if you look at our personnel, we have an awesome team. More bodies is not the answer. In short, I am officially starting to turn against Carbo.

And all this love for Lecavalier! Yes, he's an awesome player. But can I ask - have ANY of you Vinny-boosters given any thought to how his contract will look in two years when the cap shrinks to $45 mil? Or when Vinny is 38 and washed up and we're paying him a gagillion dollars to score 15 goals in a cap system? Just asking. Tampa Bay didn't have to give him that preposterous contract, but they did, and that should at least dampen our enthusiasm for acquiring him.

No, it shouldn't. Players like Lecavalier are extremely hard to get and a chance to acquire an impact centre like that does not come around very often. It certainly hasn't in Montreal for a very long time. Waiting for the "perfect" player will just lead to doing nothing...

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My largest frustration with this team is a lack of identity.

I thought when Gainey brought in Carbo/Jarvis/Muller and drafted Price with the 5th pick that they were going

to mimic the Stars/Devils model.

I expected a return to the 1980s model of the Canadiens that was top 5 defensively every season. With Komisarek

maturing, loading up on d-men in the draft and bringing in Hamrlik to replace Souray I assumed they were on their way.

But I am still waiting and I don't think Carbo will ever deliver the goods.

This team looks more like the 2002-2004 team where when they do get a lead they passively sit back and allow

their opponent easy access to the zone as they try to keep things to the outside as they get peppered with shots.

They did this against the Sharks and as much as everybody has adopted Halak as the saviour they were a couple of

posts away from a monster collapse.

If this is the way they are going to play then they will not make the playoffs.

I don't like to fire coaches because of slumps. I don't like to jump to simple conclusions or scapegoat individuals.

But I am really confused as to where this team is going? Two seasons ago I thought I knew the blueprint and path,

but today, I have no idea what they do well anymore. I don't understand what the end goal is anymore.

How long can you sit on your prospects? You need to cash in on them before the pretenders are exposed.

How long can you be patient with a coach who has not stamped his personality on the team? They are getting

worse, not better. A team that is well coached is a reflection of their coach.

A Pat Burns team usually struggled out of the gate until he convinced them to play his way. When that team

committed to his vision they began to mimic his personality. They bought into his vision, eventually they would

chafe from his ways but you generally got 3 great seasons out of him before a revolt and the system breakdown.

This teams reputation over the last 4 years has been strong start, mid season collapse, failure to pick up the pieces

until the circumstance becomes dire and furiously rally down the stretch to squeeze into the playoffs. I understand

that last season was different, but that becomes the anamoly.

Carbo was also outcoached by Julien and Stevens in the playoffs. He allowed the opponent to dictate the flow of the game

and neutralize the Canadiens strengths. I am discouraged by his lack of growth over 3 seasons.

I can understand Gainey wanting to keep Carbo around for stability, but he needs to supplement his learning by surrounding

him with elite assistant coaches, not inexperienced ex players.

Laying at the feet of Price is ridiculous. And deifying Halak for 4 good games is just as ridiculous. This team is not puilling

in the same direction, and until they do they are going to dissappoint.

Expectations create pressure and this team has handled it terribly.

BG and Carbo are not revolutionnary managers. However, they're really good, extremely good at copying success stories.

If we use the Automobile system, they are not Ford, the inventive, they are toyota, the "recreate in a better way"...

After the lockout, a team like Buffalo was rolling 3 offensive lines to the perfection. Gainey was a notch behind, with a 3rd line which was a shutout line.

After that, he went that way and started molding his lineup in order to recreate that. Last year, we saw that he had fully adapted his roster to that, as we finished 1st and were the best offensive team in the league (or were we 2nd?).

This year, we started in lions. We were first after 20-ish games I believe. the addition of Tanguay and Lang worked 100%.

However, the failure to add a shooting point d-man had worse effects than expected (tanguay at the point was a good try, but we needed a shooter there, with kov and markov already the great passers in our PP system). But... our caproom was used by the new efficient additions.

When Lang got on the LTIR, it was easy to go out and grab what we needed the most, a PP shooter. It worked 110%. Schneider perfectly fitted there and, his veteran status helped calm everyone (best example is : who stood between Lapierre and Komi when they had an issue at practice?)

Anyhow, I just think that this team can be fine. It's a good assembly. It however needs to adapt. We're a notch behind in the fact that this season is more a "defensive" season than last season. We were successful last season because of our offense... but our defense sucked (5-5 play we were minus)

this year is lead by successful defensive teams (Claude Fulien in Bofton) and ... we haven't adapted to that yet.

Next season we're gonna rock it the hard way again.

Particularly with Bob having 20M to play with (so many UFAs also have good sides... )

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It's worth noting that, at his press conference, Gainey DID throw down the gauntlet to the coaching staff. He said, in effect, that under-performing players need to do better, AND that it's up the coaches to squeeze more out of them. That has to be counted a surprising shot across the coaches' bow, as it were.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bob cuts Carbo loose (or shuffle him elsewhere in the organization) should the Habs continue on their current path. One thing Gainey has always been, is a winner. He will do what it takes even if that means knifing Carbo.

And check out Elliotte Friedman's insightful take on Gainey's non-action: http://habsinsideout.com/main/16731

In effect, Bob did nothing because he knows the team isn't good enough to win. So don't give up youth or picks for that big piece. This is precisely the opposite of his official rationale, but it might be closest to the truth.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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"We got into discussions with a team in December that would have broken our direction of our team, and nothing like that came by us in the last two weeks," he said in an oblique reference to talks over Tampa Bay Lightning centre Vincent Lecavalier, who is already being speculated about as being an off-season target of the Habs.

After the season, with so many players to resign, it might be the time to make that move. The only issue here is the length and size of his contract and how that will affect the team as we move through the significantly tougher financial times. The smart GM's have stayed away from the long-term contracts because flexiblility in a fluid-cap world is the key to a successful team situation. However, when a guy of Lecavalier's mold comes along, perhaps you find ways to re-evaluate and modify your look.

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BG and Carbo are not revolutionnary managers. However, they're really good, extremely good at copying success stories.

If we use the Automobile system, they are not Ford, the inventive, they are toyota, the "recreate in a better way"...

After the lockout, a team like Buffalo was rolling 3 offensive lines to the perfection. Gainey was a notch behind, with a 3rd line which was a shutout line.

After that, he went that way and started molding his lineup in order to recreate that. Last year, we saw that he had fully adapted his roster to that, as we finished 1st and were the best offensive team in the league (or were we 2nd?).

This year, we started in lions. We were first after 20-ish games I believe. the addition of Tanguay and Lang worked 100%.

However, the failure to add a shooting point d-man had worse effects than expected (tanguay at the point was a good try, but we needed a shooter there, with kov and markov already the great passers in our PP system). But... our caproom was used by the new efficient additions.

When Lang got on the LTIR, it was easy to go out and grab what we needed the most, a PP shooter. It worked 110%. Schneider perfectly fitted there and, his veteran status helped calm everyone (best example is : who stood between Lapierre and Komi when they had an issue at practice?)

Anyhow, I just think that this team can be fine. It's a good assembly. It however needs to adapt. We're a notch behind in the fact that this season is more a "defensive" season than last season. We were successful last season because of our offense... but our defense sucked (5-5 play we were minus)

this year is lead by successful defensive teams (Claude Fulien in Bofton) and ... we haven't adapted to that yet.

Next season we're gonna rock it the hard way again.

Particularly with Bob having 20M to play with (so many UFAs also have good sides... )

But the Sabres ultimately lost both seasons. My goal is to replicate the success of championship teams.

Defense wins championships. As much as everybody loves to wax poetic about the offensive juggernaut of the 70s,

that team was dominant defensively. The adage holds true in every professional sports league, and until the Canadiens

shore up their defense they can start Martin Brodeur and Patrick Roy and this team will not win.

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But the Sabres ultimately lost both seasons. My goal is to replicate the success of championship teams.

Defense wins championships. As much as everybody loves to wax poetic about the offensive juggernaut of the 70s,

that team was dominant defensively. The adage holds true in every professional sports league, and until the Canadiens

shore up their defense they can start Martin Brodeur and Patrick Roy and this team will not win.

It'd start by using Higgins (and maybe plex) in a checking role IMO.

Higgs was extremely good as a two way forward (AHL and also nhl debut). Now that he's trying to concentrate on offense, I don't really see a difference between him and a guy like Brian Savage (besides the skating).

Same can be said about plex, but to a lesser extent, since he's producing.

If those were our 3rd line / shutout line, that'd be pretty good. Add a guy like Max Pax, and you have 3 guys who can score 20 goals as SECONDARY / tertiary scoring (as opposed to the "go-to" status that they currently have, which IMO they do not deserve and cannot support/deliver), but can play well defensively.

Then, it'd go on with relegating Max Lapierre and Kosto exclusively to the FOURTH line... badluck that Lang got kicked out for the season... but Lapierre, as good as he's been, is not a 3rd line forward nor is Kosto. They are energy guys that we want on the 4th.

So what's up?

Well, A. Kost on the RW has been a beast, his talent level is up there... I'd keep him in my top 6.

Tangs is quick and sound in both ends. I keep him in my top 6.

other than that? I need a top line Center...

I can retain Koivu, but only at a cheap contract, only on the 2nd line.

not sure I want to retain Kovalev.

I then need 2 top 6 wingers, who have more upsides than Higgins, or bring a different thing to the table (e.g. Latendresse brings size and has a better shot than higgs...his production per 60 minutes of effective icetime is also higher, i believe)

on D, our whole RD line is UFA. (and Mathieu Carle, a right handed, asks to be traded? he's insane?)

Needs?

3 Right Dmen (2 if komo returns, 1 if Schneids returns, 0 if Carle or Weber or whoever makes it to the next level)

1st frikkin line center, 1st line center, goddamn real first line center, legitimate center, legitimate 1st line center... dammit!

1-2 wingers, depending on who cuts it. Right now, d'Agostini (better shot than higgins), S. Kost (more "pure talent" than higgins), Latendresse do not cut it IMO. if they wake up, we don't need wingers.

------

my post is a bit messy... but to sum it up, the main reason why i think we suck is that we rely on guys like Plek and Higgins in our top 6, whereas they would be the best 3rd liners in the world, but are really inefficient top 6ers. because when we rely on them defensively, they forget to take care of the other aspects of the game.

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I must agree that if our 3rd line consisted of Plex-higgins-Pacioretty, the habs would have a pretty damn good team, however, Like you said on a few occassions, until we find that TRUE 1st line centre, we will always come back to the same thing!

Edited by Habsfan

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:ninja:

Andrei K + Price in desyntox....

:ninja:

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i think he meant detox... but i dunno...

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Well, that was quick then, considering RDS has them as both playing in tonight's game.

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Well, that was quick then, considering RDS has them as both playing in tonight's game.

that was the joke.

Seriously, without defense, we'll need goal. It's about time we bring back Andrei K.

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