Habitforming Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 not remotely in the same league. yes for Frolov no for Cheech they are not even close. Either option is trash... so trash + trash ='s .... Trash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I wasn't so much picking your comments out to disagree with, it was more for the short sighted fans that would trade 2 potential stars + for a guy like Cheechoo or Frolov. Yeah I know just thought about the fact that we need to develop the kids that make the roster (me convincing myself) and i think Gainey said enough with veterans in the line that cant produce the habs cant be spending time on hoping the first line works ok tonight for a second night in a row... |First lines get off nights but its the exeption.. Coaching staff needed proven (somewhat hopeful) proven productive basis on the first line .. hence Gomez Camm et al... they need to be able to focus on these kids!... BY the way frolov thing has no basis according to spector DOnt know if you guys already know! http://spectorshockey.net/index.php?option...rs&Itemid=4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Yeah I know just thought about the fact that we need to develop the kids that make the roster (me convincing myself) and i think Gainey said enough with veterans in the line that cant produce the habs cant be spending time on hoping the first line works ok tonight for a second night in a row... |First lines get off nights but its the exeption.. Coaching staff needed proven (somewhat hopeful) proven productive basis on the first line .. hence Gomez Camm et al... they need to be able to focus on these kids!... BY the way frolov thing has no basis according to spector DOnt know if you guys already know! http://spectorshockey.net/index.php?option...rs&Itemid=4 I figured as much anyway. It's the Subban compilation that is on Habs I/O right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I figured as much anyway. It's the Subban compilation that is on Habs I/O right now. wow!!! FROM THE LEFT FROM THE RIGHT ... DOWN THE MIDDLE AND UP THE A$$$... LOL PK looked out of his league there! At times he seems dangerously out of position (a forward) Best wishes to his progression this season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 D'Agostini and Sergei K are very possibly career AHLers. At least, they haven't proven yet that they aren't. I don't see higher potential in Dags than in Cheechoo... actually, you're crazy if you do, seeing as Dags is unlikely to ever score a 56 goal season in his career, or even a 37 goal season like Cheechoo did the following year, even in the AHL, even playing on a line with Joe Thornton. If we can acquire a 20+ goal scorer to play on one of our top 3 lines for nothing more than Matt D'Agostini (and Metro for salary purposes), we should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 If we can acquire a 20+ goal scorer to play on one of our top 3 lines for nothing more than Matt D'Agostini (and Metro for salary purposes), we should do it. Agreed... yet I wont cross out Sergei... But because i think cheechoo is being shopped around even to the Bruins for kessel... and what else.. we will need to add more to the pot than Dagos metro and a prospect/pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 D'Agostini and Sergei K are very possibly career AHLers. At least, they haven't proven yet that they aren't. I don't see higher potential in Dags than in Cheechoo... actually, you're crazy if you do, seeing as Dags is unlikely to ever score a 56 goal season in his career, or even a 37 goal season like Cheechoo did the following year, even in the AHL, even playing on a line with Joe Thornton. If we can acquire a 20+ goal scorer to play on one of our top 3 lines for nothing more than Matt D'Agostini (and Metro for salary purposes), we should do it. I don't think you'll find anyone here that thinks a D'Agostini and Metro for Cheechoo trade as a bad idea. The problem lies in adding key players like Andrei or Sergei to the mix. I'm not sure how many times you have seen Sergei play in person, but he has a vision and on ice instinct that you can't teach. The rest will follow as long as he can translate those skills into the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 I don't think you'll find anyone here that thinks a D'Agostini and Metro for Cheechoo trade as a bad idea. The problem lies in adding key players like Andrei or Sergei to the mix. I think it'd be a bad idea. Cheechoo hasn't done jack for two seasons now. I think Dags can match the 40 points Cheechoo has been putting up lately, if given the same amount of ice time. No, I don't think Dags will ever match Cheechoo's peak, but at this point in time, I don't see Cheechoo as being that much better than Dags. I'd rather have a young player filling a 40 point role than a 3 million dollar veteran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I don't think you'll find anyone here that thinks a D'Agostini and Metro for Cheechoo trade as a bad idea. The problem lies in adding key players like Andrei or Sergei to the mix. I'm not sure how many times you have seen Sergei play in person, but he has a vision and on ice instinct that you can't teach. The rest will follow as long as he can translate those skills into the NHL. AK has been mentioned in the Frolov nonsense AK has not been mentioned in the Cheechoo nonsense Frolov > AK AK > Cheechoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Of course, Andrei Kostitsyn alone is worth more than Cheechoo but he was never mentioned in the rumours. That big package - both Kosties and one of O'Byrne, D'Agostini and Stewart - was the rumour for Frolov. The rumour for Cheechoo is something like D'Agostini + Metropolit. No Kostitsyns involved. I don't see what we stand to lose. At worst, Cheechoo sucks and makes 3M dollars. We can buy him out at the end of the year (or let him play out the final year on his contract). At best, he goes back to being a 30+ goal scorer, in which case he is a bargain. D'Agostini's a pretty good prospect but really, if he develops perfectly, he'll be just a worse Cheechoo/Ryder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 AK has been mentioned in the Frolov nonsense AK has not been mentioned in the Cheechoo nonsense Frolov = AK (now) Frolov< AK (at the end of next season) AK > Cheechoo Fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflhabfan Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 stay with what we have. andrei, when playing at top level, has an excellent shot, especially on a 2on 1, or 3 on 2 rush. with fewer distractions, he and sergei can make a difference. martin's forte is teaching, and with the "new vets", hopefully the locker room won't be as divided as last year.i may be wrong, but i really see the habs coming together as a team this year. the new influx of players have a nice resume. that is why i am reluctant to see ANY san jose shark with the habs. cheechoo????marleau????might as well just stay pat with loivu and kovalev. its time to move onward and forward. lets hope august speeds by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Whoa whoa, when did everyone get so down on D'Agostini? He looks like he can blossom into a pure sniper and is easily among the best prospects in the system. He's only played 57 games in his career and is 22 years old. How can anyone be ready to give up on a prospect at this stage in his career? Especially after a frenzied goal streak immediately after breaking in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Fixed I don't agree. Frolov is better than Andrei now and will be better than Andrei at the end of the season. Hell, I think Frolov is better than anyone on our roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorickbrown Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Whoa whoa, when did everyone get so down on D'Agostini? He looks like he can blossom into a pure sniper and is easily among the best prospects in the system. He's only played 57 games in his career and is 22 years old. How can anyone be ready to give up on a prospect at this stage in his career? Especially after a frenzied goal streak immediately after breaking in! D'Agostini is really overrated. This guy has never scored more than 20 goal at any level. Stats for D'Ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 D'Agostini is really overrated. This guy has never scored more than 20 goal at any level. Stats for D'Ago and obviously he can't learn or improve. so lets take him out and shoot him, shall we. Ridiculous comment based on that there are a whole bunch of nhl'ers who you would throw away. ever heard the term late Bloomer? what about all the guys who were goal scoring wizzs and turned into defensive forwards, like Guy Carboneau for instance. Stats are for losers, when you compare other levels to the nhl. He is not over rated but he probably ain't guy lafleur either, oh yeah even he did not do so good his first years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I don't agree. Frolov is better than Andrei now and will be better than Andrei at the end of the season. Hell, I think Frolov is better than anyone on our roster. Are we talking about the same guy? A guy with a career high of 71 points while still being a minus player.... 2 years ago? Sounds like a Plex comparison, not a player that's better than anyone on our roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Also, Not a rumor though. Mac Bennett interview questions Have fun with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 and obviously he can't learn or improve. so lets take him out and shoot him, shall we. Ridiculous comment based on that there are a whole bunch of nhl'ers who you would throw away. ever heard the term late Bloomer? what about all the guys who were goal scoring wizzs and turned into defensive forwards, like Guy Carboneau for instance. Stats are for losers, when you compare other levels to the nhl. He is not over rated but he probably ain't guy lafleur either, oh yeah even he did not do so good his first years. Nobody has mentioned giving away D'Agostini. It's a TRADE!!!!!!!! Are we talking about the same guy? A guy with a career high of 71 points while still being a minus player.... 2 years ago? Sounds like a Plex comparison, not a player that's better than anyone on our roster. Frolov's first two full NHL seasons were at the ages of 20 & 21. Kostitsyn's were at 22 & 23. A bit hard to compare the two. Also, if we're comparing linemates, Kovalev in 84 point form + Plekanec at 69 point form, on the top PP unit in the NHL has got to be at least as good as what Frolov had in LA. Frolov has also has a 67 points in 71 game season. I agree though, that they are probably the same player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) Are we talking about the same guy? A guy with a career high of 71 points while still being a minus player.... 2 years ago? Sounds like a Plex comparison, not a player that's better than anyone on our roster. Frolov has been on his own all career long, just like Ollie Jokinen. Everytime I was watching the highlights (and I do this pretty much every night) I always thought that he was the reason why Camms was putting up points. And same can be said for Camms in 2008-2009 Kopitar and Camms finished with -15 and - 16 while Frolov was +1 . Kings sucked... Edited August 4, 2009 by JoeLassister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Frolov has been on his own all career long, just like Ollie Jokinen. Everytime I was watching the highlights (and I do this pretty much every night) I always thought that he was the reason why Camms was putting up points. And same can be said for Camms in 2008-2009 Kopitar and Camms finished with -15 and - 16 while Frolov was +1 . Kings sucked... It is impossible for those guys to play together and have such drastically different +/- stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) I love you Habit, you know that. Love you as if you were my own Angelina Jolie. But I fear you're overrating our irksome mafioso a little. I'm not denying that he's still young and may yet break out, but then Frolov is still young and still has potential as well. Given everything that's happened in the last 365 days, I can't see any trade that sends Kosty away as being bad; either for the team OR for him. Perhaps, like The Franchise, he just needs a change of scenery (i.e. get the hell outta Montreal) to find himself. (Then again, maybe the complete remanufacture of the club will benefit him, who knows.) On the other hand, I could be wrong and he could put up 120 points this season. Edited August 4, 2009 by Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Fixed if it pleases you to fool yourself. Whoa whoa, when did everyone get so down on D'Agostini? He looks like he can blossom into a pure sniper and is easily among the best prospects in the system. He's only played 57 games in his career and is 22 years old. How can anyone be ready to give up on a prospect at this stage in his career? Especially after a frenzied goal streak immediately after breaking in! cause he had a Marcel Hossa hot sequence and the Marcel Hossa down to go with it. and obviously he can't learn or improve. so lets take him out and shoot him, shall we. Ridiculous comment based on that there are a whole bunch of nhl'ers who you would throw away. ever heard the term late Bloomer? what about all the guys who were goal scoring wizzs and turned into defensive forwards, like Guy Carboneau for instance. Stats are for losers, when you compare other levels to the nhl. He is not over rated but he probably ain't guy lafleur either, oh yeah even he did not do so good his first years. Ok, so basically, I too can become a 30 goal scorer in NHL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Ok, so basically, I too can become a 30 goal scorer in NHL? Beside Gretz in his prime? Yes. Simple. Go to the net, stick on the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) Are we talking about the same guy? A guy with a career high of 71 points while still being a minus player.... 2 years ago? Sounds like a Plex comparison, not a player that's better than anyone on our roster. Pleks my butt!! That is as good as our last captain, the guy most of you think walks on water, put up in his best year ever!!!! Ok, he did better once, by 4 pnts, but was a minus 21 that year, so I don't count that for much. Edited August 4, 2009 by johnnyhasbeen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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