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In his press conference Gauthier mentioned Carle and Feasterling. I think we'll see the latter up here in particular before any trade is made; at least he doesn't constitute a raw rookie, what with two half-seasons under his belt.

Shades here of 2009. With injuries to the blueline, Gainey went out and got Schneider. When Schneider then got hurt, he came under pressure to make yet another move. But he chose not to further mortgage the future to salvage a sinking ship.

Gauthier made his move to paper over the loss of Markov when he added Wisniewski. As superlative a deal as that was, he would likely be ill-advised to deal further picks in order to paper over the loss of Gorges (or the playing-through-injuries of Hammer and Spacek). Maybe he could move a guy like Desharnais, but Desharnais likely would not bring back a player of Gorges's quality anyway. I can see the case for adding a legitimate #6 defenceman, but really - how much help is that gonna be? Gorges is one of the best #5 D-men in the league. Desharnais won't bring you that.

Another option is to deal Kostitsyn (an impending UFA) for real help on the back end: presumably some decent-quality defenceman who is also a UFA, if there are any. That'd be a pretty fundamental move that would leave us short two top-6 forwards instead of one - but might really stabilize the blueline.

If I'm Gauthier, I first see what a Desharnais can bring, then maybe I get serious and start shopping Kostitsyn. But it's an open question whether any team would be interested in trading a #4-5 impending-UFA defenceman for a #6 impending-UFA forward. If you're a seller at the deadline it's because you want to hoard picks and youngsters. If you're a buyer you don't want to give up players.

I suppose my point is just that I don't see another 'painless' trade of draft picks being the likely outcome in all this, and any other option will be very difficult to pull off.

Hunker down, it's gonna be a long second half.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Would it do any good to get someone like Jim Vandermeer for a late pick? Habs have the cap space to make a move but I don't feel like a move is coming.

Nor do I, not yet at least. You can only weaken your young depth so much before it becomes too detrimental. (I'd go into more details but I may be discussing this in my Final Thought in the HW Recap on Sunday.) I'd expect the Habs to scour the waiver wire over the coming weeks, where the acquisition cost is simply cash.

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Another option is to deal Kostitsyn (an impending UFA) for real help on the back end: presumably some decent-quality defenceman who is also a UFA, if there are any. That'd be a pretty fundamental move that would leave us short two top-6 forwards instead of one - but might really stabilize the blueline.

Kostitsyn is a pending RFA, actually.

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Sh*t, how'd I miss that?

That ups his trade value for sure. Hmmm. Maybe there's some hope.

Does it? His qualifying offer is $3.25 M and if he has another 40-45 point campaign, he's a prime candidate to be non-tendered, which could make him a UFA anyways.

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I like what we got in Brett Festerling... but with Gorges out we need to improve the D,

Weber and Picard screw up to many times to be defensively reliable and arguably they both are 7th D right now we need another top 4 D, Festerling isnt one. But if we are gonna use more 6th and 7th Ds on the roster, then I say send Weber down for offensive re-conditioning (I mean come on! he misses the net 2 times out of 3) and in the meantime bring up Henry or Festerling for defensive duties

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Does it? His qualifying offer is $3.25 M and if he has another 40-45 point campaign, he's a prime candidate to be non-tendered, which could make him a UFA anyways.

Well, the main thing is that you and I are on the same page in thinking that Habs are unlikely to make any significant move to fix the blueline via a trade!

As for Kostitsyn, I do think there would be teams interested in acquiring him at the deadline as an added weapon. The question remains whether they'd be willing to surrender a #4-5 defenceman for him. I suspect they'd only do so if that defencemen were UFA AND their team has a surplus of defencemen AND they can fit Kostitsyn under the cap. That seems to rule out practically everybody.

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Kostitsyn is a pending RFA, actually.

Didn't we just struggle to score against a depleted Penguin line up. Why would you want to give up scoring? I think we stay with Carle and Festerling as indicated by Mr.G and we pull someone off the waiver wire if we get pushed. Let me add Belle to my other suggestion.

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Well, the main thing is that you and I are on the same page in thinking that Habs are unlikely to make any significant move to fix the blueline via a trade!

As for Kostitsyn, I do think there would be teams interested in acquiring him at the deadline as an added weapon. The question remains whether they'd be willing to surrender a #4-5 defenceman for him. I suspect they'd only do so if that defencemen were UFA AND their team has a surplus of defencemen AND they can fit Kostitsyn under the cap. That seems to rule out practically everybody.

What do you do then for offence? Kostitsyn takes another option out of the top-6...this is why I say a deal is doubtful, aside from the waiver wire for now. :)

Didn't we just struggle to score against a depleted Penguin line up. Why would you want to give up scoring? I think we stay with Carle and Festerling as indicated by Mr.G and we pull someone off the waiver wire if we get pushed. Let me add Belle to my other suggestion.

Belle's in Edmonton now (just sent down the other day actually), or did you mean to claim him off waivers if/when exposed by the Oilers?

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In his press conference Gauthier mentioned Carle and Feasterling. I think we'll see the latter up here in particular before any trade is made; at least he doesn't constitute a raw rookie, what with two half-seasons under his belt.

Shades here of 2009. With injuries to the blueline, Gainey went out and got Schneider. When Schneider then got hurt, he came under pressure to make yet another move. But he chose not to further mortgage the future to salvage a sinking ship.

Gauthier made his move to paper over the loss of Markov when he added Wisniewski. As superlative a deal as that was, he would likely be ill-advised to deal further picks in order to paper over the loss of Gorges (or the playing-through-injuries of Hammer and Spacek). Maybe he could move a guy like Desharnais, but Desharnais likely would not bring back a player of Gorges's quality anyway. I can see the case for adding a legitimate #6 defenceman, but really - how much help is that gonna be? Gorges is one of the best #5 D-men in the league. Desharnais won't bring you that.

Another option is to deal Kostitsyn (an impending UFA) for real help on the back end: presumably some decent-quality defenceman who is also a UFA, if there are any. That'd be a pretty fundamental move that would leave us short two top-6 forwards instead of one - but might really stabilize the blueline.

If I'm Gauthier, I first see what a Desharnais can bring, then maybe I get serious and start shopping Kostitsyn. But it's an open question whether any team would be interested in trading a #4-5 impending-UFA defenceman for a #6 impending-UFA forward. If you're a seller at the deadline it's because you want to hoard picks and youngsters. If you're a buyer you don't want to give up players.

I suppose my point is just that I don't see another 'painless' trade of draft picks being the likely outcome in all this, and any other option will be very difficult to pull off.

Hunker down, it's gonna be a long second half.

I don't know. The Habs dealt the compensatory pick they got for Fischer for Wiz.

I understand not pulling a Burke and dealing multiple first rounders etc. for a Gorges bridge, but either the Habs are good at drafting or they aren't.

If Timmins is good at drafting, then the Canadiens have a solid reserve that they can survive the loss of a pick. If he isn't, then what value does a 2nd or 3rd have anyway?

With Markov, Gorges, Hamrlik and Gill up for free agency I would not pass on a player who can be a core guy because I didn't want to give up picks.

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With Markov, Gorges, Hamrlik and Gill up for free agency I would not pass on a player who can be a core guy because I didn't want to give up picks.

Core guy, I agree with you as the deal would be impacting beyond this season in all likelihood. But for a rental, particularly that of a lower tier d-man? I'd wait until the deadline at the very least and hope to get someone basically for nothing.

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To answer Wamsley's post in an informed way, I'd have to have a more comprehensive understanding of where we stand relative to draft picks. It *seems* as though we've been dealing away a fair number since 2008 (remember Gainey's binge in 2008-09 as he geared up for Season 100?). If this is so, then Timmins or no Timmins we should be cautious about trading more of them as a bridge for Gorges. If we're basically breaking even then perhaps it's worth dangling one or two for a strong option on the blueline, if any exist.

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To answer Wamsley's post in an informed way, I'd have to have a more comprehensive understanding of where we stand relative to draft picks. It *seems* as though we've been dealing away a fair number since 2008 (remember Gainey's binge in 2008-09 as he geared up for Season 100?). If this is so, then Timmins or no Timmins we should be cautious about trading more of them as a bridge for Gorges. If we're basically breaking even then perhaps it's worth dangling one or two for a strong option on the blueline, if any exist.

Since 2008, the Habs have dealt the following picks:

2008 1st (for Tanguay)

2009 2nd (also for Tanguay)

2008 5th (with Rivet for Gorges, Pacioretty*)

2008 6th (with Ribeiro for Ninnimaa, Conboy*)

2010 2nd (dealt to trade up for Tinordi)

2010 3rd (for Schneider)

2010 6th (for 2009 7th, picked Simila)

2011 2nd (for Moore)

2011 2nd (compensatory Fischer pick, for Wisniewski)

2012 conditional 5th (also Wisniewski)

And acquired the following:

2008 5th (with Tanguay, picked Trunev)

2009 2nd (for Huet)

2009 7th (from PIT, picked Simila)

2010 4th (from Tinordi trade up, picked MacMillan)

2011 4th (from ANA in Chipchura trade)

2012 5th (from ANA in Lapierre trade)

* picks acquired but player selected listed instead

Habs acquired a 2010 2nd for Grabovski, dealt it for Lang later on.

Habs acquired a 2009 2nd for Huet, dealt it for Schneider

I think that's all of them.

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Belle's in Edmonton now (just sent down the other day actually), or did you mean to claim him off waivers if/when exposed by the Oilers?

Exactly. Right now I say, pull someone off waivers when needed. Belle has been through a couple times, Danny Syvret another one. I don't see us with much bargaining power unless we are prepared to give up assets and picks. I think it is a way to early to declare ourselves a buyer.

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Since 2008, the Habs have dealt the following picks:

2008 1st (for Tanguay)

2009 2nd (also for Tanguay)

2008 5th (with Rivet for Gorges, Pacioretty*)

2008 6th (with Ribeiro for Ninnimaa, Conboy*)

2010 2nd (dealt to trade up for Tinordi)

2010 3rd (for Schneider)

2010 6th (for 2009 7th, picked Simila)

2011 2nd (for Moore)

2011 2nd (compensatory Fischer pick, for Wisniewski)

2012 conditional 5th (also Wisniewski)

And acquired the following:

2008 5th (with Tanguay, picked Trunev)

2009 2nd (for Huet)

2009 7th (from PIT, picked Simila)

2010 4th (from Tinordi trade up, picked MacMillan)

2011 4th (from ANA in Chipchura trade)

2012 5th (from ANA in Lapierre trade)

* picks acquired but player selected listed instead

Habs acquired a 2010 2nd for Grabovski, dealt it for Lang later on.

Habs acquired a 2009 2nd for Huet, dealt it for Schneider

I think that's all of them.

Whoa! That's impressive work. And it does seem that we've lost significantly more than we've gained on the 'picks' front. So I'm inclined to say, hold on to 'em.

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Whoa! That's impressive work. And it does seem that we've lost significantly more than we've gained on the 'picks' front. So I'm inclined to say, hold on to 'em.

Thanks. Fortunately, I found a site that listed all the trades with the picks so I just had to go year-by-year. If memory serves me right, there was a conditional pick dealt to PIT in 2009 for D TJ Kemp, but the condition never came to fruition. Deal happened right after Kemp played in the Spengler Cup. Still, that was another pick nearly dealt.

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Thanks. Fortunately, I found a site that listed all the trades with the picks so I just had to go year-by-year. If memory serves me right, there was a conditional pick dealt to PIT in 2009 for D TJ Kemp, but the condition never came to fruition. Deal happened right after Kemp played in the Spengler Cup. Still, that was another pick nearly dealt.

my memory fails, but did we not pick up a pick in the O'byrn trade?

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Nope, it was O'Byrne for Bournival straight up.

Ahhh....

just looked him up... he was a 2010 draft pick... pretty decent numbers in the QJHL these past two seasons!

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Arnott's name has surfaced (albeit from the famous rumour inventor) but still interesting to ponder nonetheless. Even with Gorges' LTIR coming into play, they'd have a heckuva time fitting him in cap wise though. Expiring contract, big C, probably would force Eller or Desharnais to Hamilton though as he'd slide in behind Plekanec/Gomez.

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I really don't think we need another forward. Even with Wiz, our defense still needs to be strengthened.

Hamrlik - Still effective but his age is really starting to show. Not the top-paring shutdown guy he used to be.

Spacek - Same as Hamrlik, but not as good.

Subban - Potential is there, but too many rookie mistakes to be counted on in the clutch.

Weber - Same as Subban

Gill - Has his moments, mostly on the PK, but is not great 5 on 5.

Picard - Sufficient bottom pairing guy, mediocre at best.

Edited by ForumGhost
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Arnott's name has surfaced (albeit from the famous rumour inventor) but still interesting to ponder nonetheless. Even with Gorges' LTIR coming into play, they'd have a heckuva time fitting him in cap wise though. Expiring contract, big C, probably would force Eller or Desharnais to Hamilton though as he'd slide in behind Plekanec/Gomez.

This makes no sense unless gomez was going back the other way - which isn't possible with the cap mess they are in and still needing to sign Parise.

Although I have to say it would be great to unload 31/2 years of Gomez for 1/2 a year of a slow and old Arnott.

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This makes no sense unless gomez was going back the other way - which isn't possible with the cap mess they are in and still needing to sign Parise.

Although I have to say it would be great to unload 31/2 years of Gomez for 1/2 a year of a slow and old Arnott.

It can work without Gomez, you don't need to trade him in every proposal. :) Markov/Gorges' LTIR covers most of his remaining salary, they'd just have to move a warm body out, either in the deal, or to the AHL.

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It can work without Gomez, you don't need to trade him in every proposal. :) Markov/Gorges' LTIR covers most of his remaining salary, they'd just have to move a warm body out, either in the deal, or to the AHL.

I really don't know how we can afford to pick up a forward with Gorges and Markov out. Unless carle can come in and be a significant upgrade over Picard, I really think we need to spend the remaining money on a dman. It's pretty sad that we bring Wiz in from the Islanders of all teams and he instantly becomes our #1 dman.

I think we should have much better offense if JM doesn't keep handcuffing the top two lines or the PP with donkeys like Darche or Moen. It makes no sense playing donkeys with thoroughbred!! I think we have the horses to be much better offensively, but you can't ask horses to play like donkeys, or expect donkeys like darche and Moen to be horses. It also makes no sense having four donkeys like pyatt, halpern, Moen and Darche in the lineup. To me of those 4, halpern is the only one who should be an everyday player because of his success on the draw and ability to take the load off of Pleks on the PK.

I'd like see what Desharnais and pouliot can do with Eller and let our horses run and gun, before we bring more help up front.

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I really don't know how we can afford to pick up a forward with Gorges and Markov out. Unless carle can come in and be a significant upgrade over Picard, I really think we need to spend the remaining money on a dman. It's pretty sad that we bring Wiz in from the Islanders of all teams and he instantly becomes our #1 dman.

I certainly agree, D is still next on the list to improve (I noted that earlier in this thread, actually). I was just pointing out that Arnott would fit salary wise if they had to squeeze him in.

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