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Problem with the Staal deal.

It has to be made at the draft in June.

Per the CBA, you can't even talk contract extension with him or his agent before July 1st, so Pittsburgh wouldn't be able to even allow the Habs to talk to him about the extension first.  You'd be trading for him, blind, with no idea if he'd re-sign.

As for adding Gomez... the only reason Pittsburgh trades one of the three centres is to clear cap space, why would they take Gomez back, actually increasing the cap hit, not decreasing it?

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Would love to move bourque+ for Stewart, but I can't see STL being that dumb. Prior to the idiotic Gauthier trading Cammy for that useless bum Bourque it was widely reported here that the flames were trying to unload Bourque but there wasn't much interest in anyone wanting to pick up a guy signed for that long who is lazy and for a big player is seen is soft and only physical when he is dishing out cheap shots.

After gainey traded for the most untradable contract in the league when he picked up Gomez, gauthier followed up by picking up Kaberle and bourque - two contracts no other teams were willing to touch.

Still like Bourque and Kaberle trade and good moves by me?

Lazy is Bourque? than what would Cammalleri be classified as? Bourque has 72 goals in last 3 years, Cammalleri has 65 at twice the salary, pretty simple math. 3 more years at $3 is pretty small these days.

And Kaberle is a valuable, albeit soft d-man, but loads of experiance and great with puck and Habs need more offense no matter where comes from and he is the opposite of Cammalleri and a total team player.

Stewart might be interesting pick-up but just a 4th liner isnt he and woudnt waste much on him.

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Problem with the Staal deal.

It has to be made at the draft in June.

Per the CBA, you can't even talk contract extension with him or his agent before July 1st, so Pittsburgh wouldn't be able to even allow the Habs to talk to him about the extension first. You'd be trading for him, blind, with no idea if he'd re-sign.

As for adding Gomez... the only reason Pittsburgh trades one of the three centres is to clear cap space, why would they take Gomez back, actually increasing the cap hit, not decreasing it?

Question: Montreal can't talk extension, but Pittsburg should be able to, unless I am missing something. I am not saying Staal would go for it, but if you had a deal in place where Staal was under contract at the money he is looking for the next few years negotiated by Pittsburg and consommating deal on draft day. I just brought Gomez into the conversation to sweeten deal buy getting rid of some of the dead money. I would speculate that Staal would want monies north of what Gomez will be getting. Maybe a way to do it would a guarantee that if Gomez got to re entery, that Pittsburg would make a claim as part of deal. I think that would put Pittsburg and Montreal on the hook for half the contract each. I been advocating losing Gomez for two years and we are still dragging that whetstone around. We need to think OUT of THE BOX.

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You can't even talk contract with a player unless he's reached the relevant date... July 1st of his last year (for guys on long term deals)... January 1st for guys on one year deals.  Now I'm sure this rule gets bent and some of it does go on, but technically Pittsburgh shouldn't be talking contract with him yet either.  You have no guarantees here is the issue.  Even if Staal is say looking for 6.5 million from Pittsburgh, his agent could up that number drastically as soon as he's traded and there isn't much you can do about it.  As for the Re-Entry waivers, you can't put that in a trade, but I guess you can make it a sort of gentleman's agreement outside the trade.  But if Pittsburgh doesn't claim him, you've got nothing to go back on.  Both parts are a lot of risk.

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You can't even talk contract with a player unless he's reached the relevant date... July 1st of his last year (for guys on long term deals)... January 1st for guys on long term deals. Now I'm sure this rule gets bent and some of it does go on, but technically Pittsburgh shouldn't be talking contract with him yet either. You have no guarantees here is the issue. Even if Staal is say looking for 6.5 million from Pittsburgh, his agent could up that number drastically as soon as he's traded and there isn't much you can do about it. As for the Re-Entry waivers, you can't put that in a trade, but I guess you can make it a sort of gentleman's agreement outside the trade. But if Pittsburgh doesn't claim him, you've got nothing to go back on. Both parts are a lot of risk.

Gotcha. I was thinking Jordan was a UFA this year. I know the league was trying to make it easier to make trades after the last CBA. Perhaps lifting the moratorium on extention, maybe one year or 1/2 year earlier, would help.

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I think aquiring Jordan Staal would be very possible, especially and perhaps only to a western team.

The Habs definitely have the parts to make it happen. Would probably be along the lines of Eller a prospect and a few second round picks.

The question remains.. is Jordan Staal that much better than Eller or what Eller can be in a few seasons. Although, Jordan Staal playing #1 center minutes & role is an untapped well of plenty in itself. A Staal, Plekanec tandem down the middle would be vicious.

I would hope that the idea of attempting to grab two of Yakupov, Forsberg, Galchenyuk & Grigorenko a la Sedin's is something brass are seriously weighing. If not, than hopefully a second 1st round selection targetting Faksa, Hertl or Gaunce. Opportunity and assets have presented themselves. Time to cash in, imo.

Edited by nihilz
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I think aquiring Jordan Staal would be very possible, especially and perhaps only to a western team.

The Habs definitely have the parts to make it happen. Would probably be along the lines of Eller a prospect and a few second round picks.

The question remains.. is Jordan Staal that much better than Eller or what Eller can be in a few seasons. Although, Jordan Staal playing #1 center minutes & role is an untapped well of plenty in itself. A Staal, Plekanec tandem down the middle would be vicious.

I would hope that the idea of attempting to grab two of Yakupov, Forsberg, Galchenyuk & Grigorenko a la Sedin's is something brass are seriously weighing. If not, than hopefully a second 1st round selection targetting Faksa, Hertl or Gaunce. Opportunity and assets have presented themselves. Time to cash in, imo.

Sounds dandy, but i think you would only get 1 of 2 scenarios to happen.

If Stall is available, many teams would want in for sure. I think a Paul Stastny/Marleau/Getzlaf or the like, may be alot easier to trade for than Stall, if cap room is available (e.g. Gomer is gone)

I am on the fence about trading up in draft, but you can bet that Timmins will swap pick(s) to move up or down. See how conservative the new GM is i suppose.

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Sounds dandy, but i think you would only get 1 of 2 scenarios to happen.

If Stall is available, many teams would want in for sure. I think a Paul Stastny/Marleau/Getzlaf or the like, may be alot easier to trade for than Stall, if cap room is available (e.g. Gomer is gone)

I am on the fence about trading up in draft, but you can bet that Timmins will swap pick(s) to move up or down. See how conservative the new GM is i suppose.

Don you think Getzlaf would be cheaper then stall? i would think stall would be even cheaper. either one would be nice if u ask me.
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I think aquiring Jordan Staal would be very possible, especially and perhaps only to a western team.

The Habs definitely have the parts to make it happen. Would probably be along the lines of Eller a prospect and a few second round picks.

The question remains.. is Jordan Staal that much better than Eller or what Eller can be in a few seasons. Although, Jordan Staal playing #1 center minutes & role is an untapped well of plenty in itself. A Staal, Plekanec tandem down the middle would be vicious.

I would hope that the idea of attempting to grab two of Yakupov, Forsberg, Galchenyuk & Grigorenko a la Sedin's is something brass are seriously weighing. If not, than hopefully a second 1st round selection targetting Faksa, Hertl or Gaunce. Opportunity and assets have presented themselves. Time to cash in, imo.

No question stall is better then eller and and will get better as well he is still very young as well.
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Don you think Getzlaf would be cheaper then stall? i would think stall would be even cheaper. either one would be nice if u ask me.

Stall is underpaid at $4/year, but i am sure 10-15 teams would toss a big contract to entice him and give up lots of stuff to Pitt also to pry him away.

But Marleau/Thorton/Getzlaf/Stastny have all supposedly underachieved (reg season or playoffs), may be looking for new home and those 3 teams may see Plekanec as a nice change-up and might not take alot more than Thomas to get one of them ( a pick/prospect added might get it done)?

But as far as Eller goes, he was rehabbing all last summer and had no training camp (which has been shown to be a killer for forwards offensively), so wilh a full off-season training and adding 5lbs or so he could easily be a young Mikko Koivu type player, who is better than Stall, so i wouldnt even think of trading Eller.

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Staal would be a nice fit, but Commandant's words of caution are well-taken. We probably shouldn't sell the farm for this guy. As for Eller, I confess that I find him extremely hard to evaluate. There is no question that he'll be a good NHLer, but will he ever develop top-6 offensive skills? I have no idea. Remember, guys like Buils, Zednik, Higgins and Perezhogin seemed sure-fire bets to become top-6ers as well. It would not shock me to see Eller entering this list of teasers who never quite became what we hoped they'd become.

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Staal would be a nice fit, but Commandant's words of caution are well-taken. We probably shouldn't sell the farm for this guy. As for Eller, I confess that I find him extremely hard to evaluate. There is no question that he'll be a good NHLer, but will he ever develop top-6 offensive skills? I have no idea. Remember, guys like Buils, Zednik, Higgins and Perezhogin seemed sure-fire bets to become top-6ers as well. It would not shock me to see Eller entering this list of teasers who never quite became what we hoped they'd become.

I assume you just have a gut feeling Eller wont keep developing and be a top 2 centre within year or 2.

You could be correct, but i think he is bigger and a better skater than those you listed and doubled goal production in 2nd year, as i said with little summer/fall training, so i am hopeful he becomes a 65-70 point guy.

But i am always overly optimistic about young Habs.

I also see Louis Leblanc also coming to camp as a different and heavier player, as he is a fitness freak and also will not be rehabbing shoulder this summer/fall. Dont see Louis ever being a 40 goal guy, but maybe a Mike Richards type?

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I assume you just have a gut feeling Eller wont keep developing and be a top 2 centre within year or 2.

You could be correct, but i think he is bigger and a better skater than those you listed and doubled goal production in 2nd year, as i said with little summer/fall training, so i am hopeful he becomes a 65-70 point guy.

But i am always overly optimistic about young Habs.

I also see Louis Leblanc also coming to camp as a different and heavier player, as he is a fitness freak and also will not be rehabbing shoulder this summer/fall. Dont see Louis ever being a 40 goal guy, but maybe a Mike Richards type?

In my case, it's the opposite of a gut feeling - more a total lack of any intuition about how this kid will turn out. I just, honestly don't even pretend to know. I wouldn't be shocked to see him score 30, I wouldn't be shocked to see him eventually playing in Europe. Yes, he's tall and rangy and has some skills. Yes, he got 16 goals. Yes, he has great shifts now and then. But four of his goals were in one game (remember Bulis's big 5-point game? What did that prove, exactly?); and 12 assists in 80 games hardly shows great vision.

I boldfaced what I see as the key bit in your post. It's just too easy to overrate young players and I've seen it happen too many times. I'm particularly cautious about this kid, on whom so much is riding (our future at C, our return for Halak) and yet who has never really put together any convincing offensive stretch at all. So, I'm not saying NOT to believe in the kid. But I'm also saying that Jan Bulis arguably looked better than him, at the same point in his career, and so did Latendresse.

Haven't seen enough of Louis Leblanc, but I actually do have a better 'gut feeling' about him - perhaps because of his good play for Team Canada in the WJC? Less of a permieter player, perhaps? That's not to say I expect him to be in the top-6 necessarily, or that I think his potential is higher than Eller's. But he seems a sturdier prospect somehow. I could easily see him maturing into a 20-goal, all-around presence and fan favourite for us.

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In my case, it's the opposite of a gut feeling - more a total lack of any intuition about how this kid will turn out. I just, honestly don't even pretend to know. I wouldn't be shocked to see him score 30, I wouldn't be shocked to see him eventually playing in Europe. Yes, he's tall and rangy and has some skills. Yes, he got 16 goals. Yes, he has great shifts now and then. But four of his goals were in one game (remember Bulis's big 5-point game? What did that prove, exactly?); and 12 assists in 80 games hardly shows great vision.

I boldfaced what I see as the key bit in your post. It's just too easy to overrate young players and I've seen it happen too many times. I'm particularly cautious about this kid, on whom so much is riding (our future at C, our return for Halak) and yet who has never really put together any convincing offensive stretch at all. So, I'm not saying NOT to believe in the kid. But I'm also saying that Jan Bulis arguably looked better than him, at the same point in his career, and so did Latendresse.

Haven't seen enough of Louis Leblanc, but I actually do have a better 'gut feeling' about him - perhaps because of his good play for Team Canada in the WJC? Less of a permieter player, perhaps? That's not to say I expect him to be in the top-6 necessarily, or that I think his potential is higher than Eller's. But he seems a sturdier prospect somehow. I could easily see him maturing into a 20-goal, all-around presence and fan favourite for us.

Cant argue one bit with anything you say.

The Halak thing didnt even cross my mind though, hindsight stuff is history and prefer to look forward.

I had a similar feeling as you, but towards Pacioretty and i thought he wouldnt even get 20 goals. And they say he is playing very well at world's also, which is super to hear.

So my crystal ball aint worth much.

Louis seems a smart player and a hard worker, who just needs improved strength/skating.

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I donno. I feel the same about Eller as all of you. As someone mentioned, Pacioretty's seasons was largly unforseen. I see something in Eller. The comparison of Staal and Eller is unfair. Eller has had little ice time in a top 6 capacity. Let alone with line mates with the skill that Staal has the luxury of playing with. Eller has played wing along Gomez and Plek. Not idea for utilizing Lars at his full potential. I dont recall Lars ever playing between Max & Cole either. 3rd line duty on the Habs doesnt present too many offensive opportunities, needless to say. Staal clearly is the full package. The ultamate second line center. And a better than most 1st liner. Eller might not pale tooo far in comparison in the near future.

At least Bergevin is bias and wont have any sentimental attachments while assessing players. Another good question.. Imo, Habs cant go into the season with both Plek and DD. Does he keep Plek who is Staal without size, basically. Or trade DD and deal with the francaphone backlash? Does he have the balls and will he make such a bold statement in doing whats right for the product on the ice?

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Thing with Staal is that he has not put up huge numbers but by hat same token has been playing with 2nd and 3rd tier talent. I mean in his first couple of season he sometimes played with Malkin as his winger but in recent years it's been Cooke, Kunitz, Kennedy, Dupuis. I wonder what he could do if he had bonafide offensive talent on his wing?

In a hypothetical if he played with say Bourque and Gionta who generally produce more than Kennedy et al... then the line could be used defensively and still score some goals.

Not sure what the cost would be but personally I would be inclined to trade for Staal if the price was right.

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True. In that same breath, Eller might have better number playing with Kennedy & co, rather than Blunden, Moen, Geoffrion & Palushaj.. lol.. Staal between AK & Leblanc would sound more promising, obviously.

I smell a trade for Marleau. I dont think Getz is going anywhere. Pens wouldnt want Staal around the east to play against either.

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True. In that same breath, Eller might have better number playing with Kennedy & co, rather than Blunden, Moen, Geoffrion & Palushaj.. lol.. Staal between AK & Leblanc would sound more promising, obviously.

I smell a trade for Marleau. I dont think Getz is going anywhere. Pens wouldnt want Staal around the east to play against either.

I hope not. I would take Marleau for sure but i guarantee I would not give up much. He plays like Bourque in the sense of soft. Better offensive talent, scores more obviously but not a guy I'd drool on the bit for.

True. In that same breath, Eller might have better number playing with Kennedy & co, rather than Blunden, Moen, Geoffrion & Palushaj.. lol.. Staal between AK & Leblanc would sound more promising, obviously.

I smell a trade for Marleau. I dont think Getz is going anywhere. Pens wouldnt want Staal around the east to play against either.

He's also been playing the wing alot more as well.

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I hope not. I would take Marleau for sure but i guarantee I would not give up much. He plays like Bourque in the sense of soft. Better offensive talent, scores more obviously but not a guy I'd drool on the bit for.

He's also been playing the wing alot more as well.

Yep. Plek and a 2nd or a few later picks, or a swap of some prospects, would get it done. Maybe, DD. Maye even Gionta plus. Who knows, but for sure SJ is looking to shake it up, and Marleau is prime to move.

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SJ has been stacked with centers...

Thornton

Marleau

Couture

Pavelski

Moore

Handzus

Mitchell

Desjardins

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Yep. Plek and a 2nd or a few later picks, or a swap of some prospects, would get it done. Maybe, DD. Maye even Gionta plus. Who knows, but for sure SJ is looking to shake it up, and Marleau is prime to move.

I wouldn't give Pleks straight up let alone throw in a 2nd. I personally think Pleks is one of the best 2 way guys in the league.

Won't happen but I would deal Bourque and somethign else for the guy if it meant adding Marleau as the left winger with Pleks.

Something like:

Marleau-Pleks-Gionta

Pacioretty-DD-Cole

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If keeping Plek and DD is a necessity then Id try and move Gionta and try and land Doan|Stewart|Jones.

Thats the only way Id feel confident with the small center duo.

Marleau Plek XXXXX

Pacioretty DD Cole

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If keeping Plek and DD is a necessity then Id try and move Gionta and try and land Doan|Stewart|Jones.

Thats the only way Id feel confident with the small center duo.

Marleau Plek XXXXX

Pacioretty DD Cole

Trade Plekanec and stuff, for upgrade in size at least;

1st line Pacioretty-Joe Thorton-Cole

or

2nd line Bourque-Stastny-Gionta

or

2nd line Bourque-Getzlaf-Gionta

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Trade Plekanec and stuff, for upgrade in size at least;

1st line Pacioretty-Joe Thorton-Cole

or

2nd line Bourque-Stastny-Gionta

or

2nd line Bourque-Getzlaf-Gionta

I'd want Thornton on this team next season as much as I wanna see Bourque still around.

Pax XXXXX Cole

XXXXX Plek XXXXX

XXXXX Eller Leblanc

Moen XXXXX White

This is what I see. Unfortunately lol

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