Permanent Rumour Thread

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

At the risk of getting mocked for repetition by Machine, I will answer your question by saying this: our D is waaay too reliant on Tinordi to eat major minutes and be effective as a crease-clearing, physical D-man in Emelin's absence. I know people have a tendency to believe in untested rookies, and certainly my skepticism about the Gal(l)ys was proven wrong last year, but D is a hard position to master, so I really don't like those odds. We need to go out and get an Emelin replacement. A guy who can play reliable top-6 minutes, not a scrub. And it'll only happen by trade.

[TurdBurglar]

At the risk of getting mocked for repetition by Machine, I will answer your question by saying this: our D is waaay too reliant on Tinordi to eat major minutes and be effective as a crease-clearing, physical D-man in Emelin's absence. I know people have a tendency to believe in untested rookies, and certainly my skepticism about the Gal(l)ys was proven wrong last year, but D is a hard position to master, so I really don't like those odds. We need to go out and get an Emelin replacement. A guy who can play reliable top-6 minutes, not a scrub. And it'll only happen by trade.

While I agree with you there's a few factors we have to take into consideration. Our current core when healthy looks as follows:

Gorges - Subban

Markov - Emelin

Boullion - Diaz

Dreweski/Tinordi

In Emelin's absence I would like to see Markov and Subban together if Markov can handle the minutes. This frees up Gorges to be paired with Diaz or Boullion for second pair minutes, and either Boullion or Diaz pair with Tinordi or Dreweski for 3rd pair minutes. This is the reason Dreweski was re-signed, to take the 3rd pair minutes if need be. My thought process is we shouldn't be looking for a temporary replacement for Emelin, we should be looking for someone who can take his place just as good or better than he can, pushing his position to the 3rd pair where he can stay or fight for his spot back. So ultimately it would look something like this:

Gorges - Subban

Markov - ???

Emelin - Diaz/Tinordi/Boullion

Wouldn't mind Boullion and/or Diaz getting traded for a solid second pair defenseman. That being said, I still stand by Diaz is a year away from being valuable on the market. One more year of good offensive numbers and he'll fetch a nice return.

[Trizzak]

I think any defense that has a 5'8", soon-to-be-38 year old as your #5 defenseman has a bit of a problem.

The thing with our defense is that long-term we look good. Beaulieu, Tinordi, Pateryn and many unproven prospects like Ellis, Nygren, Thrower, Bennett give us tremendous depth on D to go along with the current young core in Subban and Gorges (and Emelin and Diaz if they sign long term).

So does Bergevin make a trade or sign a free agent to fill in the 3-4 month hole that Emelin currently has us in? Or do you trust that Tinordi, Beaulieu and Pateryn can fill that hole by committee to start the season?

I think there is an argument both ways, but I'm more in favour of trading from a position of strength over weakness, and having too many NHL defensemen is a strength. Bring in a top 4 and make the kids earn their spot.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

There isn't such thing as a top four available on free agency so it'd have to be traded for.

Do you pay that price to bring in a top four defenceman who'll drop down the depth chart when Emelin returns or do you stay patient?

Also, Markov was averaging 23 minutes a game against the Senators.

[TheDriveFor25]

EK saying Kings may have moved Kyle Clifford to Montreal. Big LW with some upside.. would be a nice addition to a 3rd line... what would be the cost?

[DON]

At the risk of getting mocked for repetition by Machine, I will answer your question by saying this: our D is waaay too reliant on Tinordi to eat major minutes and be effective as a crease-clearing, physical D-man in Emelin's absence. I know people have a tendency to believe in untested rookies, and certainly my skepticism about the Gal(l)ys was proven wrong last year, but D is a hard position to master, so I really don't like those odds. We need to go out and get an Emelin replacement. A guy who can play reliable top-6 minutes, not a scrub. And it'll only happen by trade.

Emelin was a #5 d-man as far as icetime/game goes, so what is big deal about Pateryn or Tinordi filling a #4/5 role, Pateryn is likely more NHL ready than Tinordi and both are defensive d-men. Nygren will probably need to lite up the AHL before any call up.

Markov Diaz Gorges Subban should be adequate top 4 for first 2 months.

But if could get a Douglas Murray cheap, that might be a good fit?

[Trizzak]

Things are slow so just a general question--- Would you be comfortable going into next season without any further moves? Has MB done enough?

On top of wanting another defenseman, I think we need one more depth forward to make sure that Parros plays as little as possible. None of the Hamilton prospects are best suited to a bottom 3 callup.

So no, MB hasn't done enough.

[dlbalr]

EK saying Kings may have moved Kyle Clifford to Montreal. Big LW with some upside.. would be a nice addition to a 3rd line... what would be the cost?

They did acquire Carcillo today which may make him expendable. I wouldn't be surprised if he were to be dealt...although we all know Eklund's track record when it comes to Montreal rumours. Given his second round pedigree and size, he would not be a cheap pickup.

[JGC21]

Eklund is also saying the Habs are still talking to Morrow.

So with potentially 2 new bodies coming in, something would have to be shipped out. Since the Kings only have roughly $3M+ in cap space, perhaps Bourque/Moen + 2nd round pick for Kyle Clifford?

[dlbalr]

Eklund is also saying the Habs are still talking to Morrow.

So with potentially 2 new bodies coming in, something would have to be shipped out. Since the Kings only have roughly $3M+ in cap space, perhaps Bourque/Moen + 2nd round pick for Kyle Clifford?

For the record, the $3M+ in cap space doesn't actually factor in Carcillo so it's actually less than that. If they're moving Clifford, it's for a prospect or an NHL'er making less than what Clifford would sign for because they're that tight to the cap. That pretty much eliminates anyone higher than about $1.5 M (a conservative figure dependent on the length of a hypothetical deal). If Clifford gets moved, I suspect it would be a prospect going the other way. They have about $2.2 million and still have Nolan and Lewis to sign - that should cover about $1.5 or so right there. There isn't really room for them to do a player-player swap.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Only way this happens is a three way trade. The Kings don't take any bodies in but they do trade Clifford, Canadiens trade bodies to the third team and acquire Clifford and the third team takes bodies from Montreal and trades picks to the Kings.

It might have been possible they were trying to do a Kings/Canadiens/Blackhawks swap and it didn't work out, so Blackhawks and Kings just did the Carcillo swap and Montreal is still talking to Los Angeles. Most teams are close to having their rosters set so I don't see who is taking Montreal's bodies without giving anything back. Just doesn't seem like a plausible situation at all.

[Davehab]

Eklund is also saying the Habs are still talking to Morrow.

So with potentially 2 new bodies coming in, something would have to be shipped out. Since the Kings only have roughly $3M+ in cap space, perhaps Bourque/Moen + 2nd round pick for Kyle Clifford?

is Clifford Really worth a 25 goal scoring roster player (with a reasonable contract) and a 2nd rounder? i always just thought he was a big plug on the 3rd line. I'm not trying to be sarcastic I really didn't think that he was even a regular on the third line.

I was thinking maybe Leblanc and maybe Moen if need be. Or maybe even DD

[Guest Stogey24]

Eklund is also saying the Habs are still talking to Morrow.

So with potentially 2 new bodies coming in, something would have to be shipped out. Since the Kings only have roughly $3M+ in cap space, perhaps Bourque/Moen + 2nd round pick for Kyle Clifford?

There is no way Montreal would trade Bourque and second rounder for Kyle Clifford.

[JGC21]

There is no way Montreal would trade Bourque and second rounder for Kyle Clifford.

Sorry, my post was supposed to be Bourque/Moen or 2nd rounder.

Clifford was a 2nd round pick so maybe LA is fine with simply replacing that draft position? They're tight against the cap so I'm not even sure Bourque would fit.

[Guest Stogey24]

Sorry, my post was supposed to be Bourque/Moen or 2nd rounder.

Clifford was a 2nd round pick so maybe LA is fine with simply replacing that draft position? They're tight against the cap so I'm not even sure Bourque would fit.

Generally speaking about borque to L.A trade. Borque had decent past season, maybe not so much point wise, but he did start crashing the net and playing with some emotion. As for Moen, well I'm not going to start another argument, but I wouldn't have any tears if he was out the door.

[ForumGhost]

Is Clifford even good?

[TurdBurglar]

If we are indeed after Clifford, I doubt Bourque would be going the other way. This would be a move to have 3 left wingers with some size (6'2 across the board) to offset the size of our right wing. Bourque/Patches on top 2 lines, Clifford on the 3rd, Prust on the 4th. Assuming we are using Briere on the right wing, that would make the top 3 line's right wingers being 5'10, 5'9 and 5'7. Only thing that doesn't make sense is Galchenyuk would need to go to center so we would still have 5 centers and only 4 positions to fill.

I'd be very shocked if we started next season with all the centers we have at this moment.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Is Clifford even good?

He's a decent bottom six player for LA. Kings fans are unhappy with the rumours. He's like a younger Travis Moen.

According to David Pagnotta of the fourth period, LA is shopping Clifford but Montreal is not the destination.

[dlbalr]

According to David Pagnotta of the fourth period, LA is shopping Clifford but Montreal is not the destination.

It's actually from Dennis Bernstein, another TFP writer, Pagnotta just retweeted what he wrote. The reason I note this is Bernstein has been proven to be a little out there before (or he has some odd sources). A few years back, he was going on that one of his sources was raving about Danny Kristo was turning into a top pairing defenceman. Think about that for a minute. I pointed out via our Twitter account that he's actually a winger; he then deleted all tweets from his 'source' and denied ever calling Kristo a defenceman. That's stuck with me over the years and as a result, I don't trust much of anything from him. That said, he has a 28-in-29 chance of being right obviously.

[patience is a virtue]

Patches-Pleks-Gally (enough is enough, get Patches on the top line with the most minutes possible, he's an elite goal scorer and a possession beast entering his prime)

Galch-Eller-Gio

Bourque-DD-Briere

Prust-Halpern(ok, ok, White)-Moen/Parros

That's some great offensive depth in the top nine. Not a guy there who can't score 20 this season (not that they all will), and Patches and maybe one of the Gallys will be shooting for 30. The third line is pure offensive exploitation with a high percentage of offensive zone starts and soft minutes against other team's bottom six. Good thing about Briere is that he can play those soft exploitation minutes all year and be fresh for the playoffs, but he can also replace a C or RW in the top six, if needs be (and if he is healthy himself . Bourque is also an able top six winger, but he will compliment DD and Briere well by crashing the net.

My point is, I think MB is done at forward, and I like. Forget Clifford. Is he a potential 20 goal scorer? http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=7370 No, he is slow with little offensive upside. Give Leblanc, Thomas and Bournival their opportunities when injuries hit. Dumont is your 4th line call up.

Defense is another story, for the reasons CC and Trizzak outlined above, I don't think it's good enough to wait around for Emelin to heal and Tinordi and Beaulieu to mature into top four dmen. I have said before that my main reason is that I think the Habs are ready for Cup runs now. And a healthy Andrei Markov is a big part of that - people talk about him being over the hill, but he was #4 in dman points last year after 2 years out of commission. There's a couple or few years of gas in that offensive tank yet folks.

It would be worth losing a top defensive prospect like Beaulieu, plus some salary (e.g. Moen or Bouillon), and a 1st round pick to bring in an established, young (25-ish), big, tough dman for keeps.

[tebo64]

And who will give you that player? I believe MB should be patient and continue his plan. He probably sees the answer in Hamilton with our young defensemen.

[TurdBurglar]

Patches-Pleks-Gally (enough is enough, get Patches on the top line with the most minutes possible, he's an elite goal scorer and a possession beast entering his prime)

Galch-Eller-Gio

Bourque-DD-Briere

Prust-Halpern(ok, ok, White)-Moen/Parros

That's some great offensive depth in the top nine. Not a guy there who can't score 20 this season (not that they all will), and Patches and maybe one of the Gallys will be shooting for 30. The third line is pure offensive exploitation with a high percentage of offensive zone starts and soft minutes against other team's bottom six. Good thing about Briere is that he can play those soft exploitation minutes all year and be fresh for the playoffs, but he can also replace a C or RW in the top six, if needs be (and if he is healthy himself . Bourque is also an able top six winger, but he will compliment DD and Briere well by crashing the net.

My point is, I think MB is done at forward, and I like. Forget Clifford. Is he a potential 20 goal scorer? http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=7370 No, he is slow with little offensive upside. Give Leblanc, Thomas and Bournival their opportunities when injuries hit. Dumont is your 4th line call up.

Defense is another story, for the reasons CC and Trizzak outlined above, I don't think it's good enough to wait around for Emelin to heal and Tinordi and Beaulieu to mature into top four dmen. I have said before that my main reason is that I think the Habs are ready for Cup runs now. And a healthy Andrei Markov is a big part of that - people talk about him being over the hill, but he was #4 in dman points last year after 2 years out of commission. There's a couple or few years of gas in that offensive tank yet folks.

It would be worth losing a top defensive prospect like Beaulieu, plus some salary (e.g. Moen or Bouillon), and a 1st round pick to bring in an established, young (25-ish), big, tough dman for keeps.

Ready for a cup run? From the team who scored 9 goals in 5 games? 1.8 G/G. The finalist scored 2.78 and 2.96 G/G respectively. I doubt very much Briere alone is going to boost our G/G a full 1. We are far from ready for a cup run.

We can point at size being the problem all we want but the fact is the only 2 that would stand in front of the net to screen the goalie, were the smallest 2 players on our roster. There's a fundamental team concept problem there. We either need to get more people with size who is willing to stand inf front of the net or get our players with size to stand there. Simple, but I don't see this group doing that. I like Patches, but he needs to get in front of the net more. Remember how Bourque played the first month of the season until his injury? That is how Bourque needs to play game in and game out. If our core won't do it, bring in someone who will.

[patience is a virtue]

Ready for a cup run? From the team who scored 9 goals in 5 games? 1.8 G/G. The finalist scored 2.78 and 2.96 G/G respectively. I doubt very much Briere alone is going to boost our G/G a full 1. We are far from ready for a cup run.

We can point at size being the problem all we want but the fact is the only 2 that would stand in front of the net to screen the goalie, were the smallest 2 players on our roster. There's a fundamental team concept problem there. We either need to get more people with size who is willing to stand inf front of the net or get our players with size to stand there. Simple, but I don't see this group doing that. I like Patches, but he needs to get in front of the net more. Remember how Bourque played the first month of the season until his injury? That is how Bourque needs to play game in and game out. If our core won't do it, bring in someone who will.

Sorry, but quoting the goal results from one playoff series where the Habs outshot and outplayed Ottawa in almost every game (Anderson vs. Price + injuries being the big difference in that series) and then making the leap to say that the REAL problem is that the Habs need to get MOAR BIGGER, just doesn't cut it. First off, they placed fourth in the league last year and were one of the top 6 goal scoring, shots on goal, and puck possession teams. Those are the factors that predict playoff success, year after year, not SIZE, which has very little to do with it.

Being one of the biggest teams in the league is in no way related to playoff success. See Blackhawks, Chicago - one of the smallest teams and two SCs in four years. Boston is also one the smaller teams (look at the stats for team height and weight), and no Chara and Lucic to not make up for it with their overwhelming physical presence. What both those teams have, and what the Habs have as well, is talented players who can score goals and stop goals, plus good coaching. That wins cups. Not size, or grit, or toughness. Prust is a great fourth liner who can play a small part, but Prusts do not win cups.

Lastly, and I will get the references for this together and post them, hitting has been shown to be inversely related to winning in the NHL - regular season and playoffs. That's right, the teams who hit more, lose more. There is a simple explanation for this, which is that when you are behind, you start hitting more.

All this to say, that although size is one factor that cannot be totally ignored when building a successful team, see McCarron, Michael and Tinordi, Jared, it is far less important than speed, skill, shooting, goaltending, and other key variables that Stanley Cup winners have in spades.

Thanks to the excellence of PK Subban, Markov, Pleks, Patches, Gio, Bourque, and now Eller, the Gallys and Briere, these are now assets the Habs do have in spades. Now, if only Carey Price can be the franchise goalie we all hope he is, the deep runs are on the way.

PS. Rewatch all the video of all the goals scored by any NHL team last year and observe how few are scored by big guys standing in front of the goalie screening him. Very few. Tips ins are more important, and that is a separate skill unrelated to size or toughness or grit. In fact, soft Michael Ryder is very good at it.

[patience is a virtue]

And who will give you that player? I believe MB should be patient and continue his plan. He probably sees the answer in Hamilton with our young defensemen.

you are probably right about this. i am just afraid of wasting Markov's last years of elite offensive excellence. he is so underestimated it's crazy. good thing is, Subban is also an offensive force and hopefully Beaulieu will be as well.

[dlbalr]

The Habs may be looking for another assistant coach. There are reports that Clement Jodoin is going to become an assistant coach for Neman Grondo of the Belarusian Open League.

Former Hamilton Bulldogs coach Clément Jodoin will work as consultant coach for Neman Grodno. It is expected that Jodoin will arrive at the location of the team next week. The exact task in the team and the lenght of contract is still unknown.

http://eurohockey.com/news.html (No direct link but it's the first one in the news listing at the moment.)

http://eurohockey.com/player/499769-clement-jodoin.html

If this actually gets confirmed, it's probably thread-worthy (as the offseason's getting awfully quiet...). For the record, this also could just be an offseason thing, he goes over there for a few weeks to work with the coaches.