Permanent Rumour Thread

[JoeLassister]

DEFINITELY just match it. He'll end up with about 8 anyways. I'd be surprised if he got less at this point. Both sides know how fast this cap will rise.

I expect 9M$ to be Subban's next cap hit.

[DON]

I'd probably just match it.

Or take four 1st picks from Oilers. Would give Habs extra first rounders for years + could toss that $8.5m in capspace into a all-star forward.

but, could still be a dumb non-match move, given his talent and potential (and just cant see Bergevin not matching any offer)?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

If the Oilers added Subban and then finally traded Gagner and another forward for more depth, they'd actually be on their way to becoming an NHL powerhouse. We'd be stuck with Top 20 picks. Whee. Be like when Edmonton added all those first rounders for Wayne Gretzky. Big whoop.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

There is hardly any conceivable deal I would contemplate in exchange for Subban. Maybe Stamkos or Malkin. Thing is, I always value a defenceman more than a forward, and superstar defencemen don't grow on trees. Certainly I wouldn't give up this stud in return for mere draft picks (what are we, in year one of a comprehensive rebuild?). As for an offer sheet of 8.5, yeah, I match it without blinking.

Do the Montreal Canadiens fully understand what they have in this kid? That's the nagging question. Guess we'll find out in due course.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I know this is the rumour thread but thinking up what I'd accept for Subban is kinda funny.

About the best deal I can think of right now is sending Subban to the Phoenix Coyotes with Rene Bourque as a cap dump for Larsson, Samuelsson and a first. And even then I'd give pause when getting back a guy like Larsson.

That said, I still love the idea of Montreal getting Samuelsson and Samuelsson ending Milan Lucic's career.

[DON]

There is hardly any conceivable deal I would contemplate in exchange for Subban. Maybe Stamkos or Malkin. Thing is, I always value a defenceman more than a forward, and superstar defencemen don't grow on trees. Certainly I wouldn't give up this stud in return for mere draft picks (what are we, in year one of a comprehensive rebuild?). As for an offer sheet of 8.5, yeah, I match it without blinking.

Do the Montreal Canadiens fully understand what they have in this kid? That's the nagging question. Guess we'll find out in due course.

Doughty in first 4 years, 47.7pt/year

Subban first 4 years, 48.0pt/yr

Keith ....................... 32.6pt/yr

So I think they have good idea of what he is (2nd best young offensive d-man on planet) and why he will get a frickin huge deal of some sort before or in early Sept.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think you're right, DON. Those niggling, nagging doubts come from the coaches' seemingly lukewarm view of PK, and the fact that Bergevin (justifiably or otherwise) drove such a hard bargain last time around - as well as the fact that there is an entire discourse of PK-bashing in NHL circles, and the fear that our "old school" management partakes of the same lunacy. Bottom line is, it's hard to fully trust the new regime as yet, partly because it hasn't done all that much. I won't be fully at ease until Subban is signed, sealed, and delivered for the long term.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

If the Oilers added Subban and then finally traded Gagner and another forward for more depth, they'd actually be on their way to becoming an NHL powerhouse. We'd be stuck with Top 20 picks. Whee. Be like when Edmonton added all those first rounders for Wayne Gretzky. Big whoop.

It didn't work out for the Washington Capitals with Scott Stevens. Instead of matching an offer sheet, they got five first round picks from the Blues. Those picks turned into:

Sergei Gonchar (the best of the bunch, but no Stevens)

Trevor Halverson

Brendan Witt

Nolan Baumgartner

Miika Elomo

Edmonton got three picks, and the best of the bunch was Martin Rucinsky.

I guess if history is any indicator, we'll get a top six forward or top pairing guy for Subban. No thanks.

[DON]

I think you're right, DON. Those niggling, nagging doubts come from the coaches' seemingly lukewarm view of PK, and the fact that Bergevin (justifiably or otherwise) drove such a hard bargain last time around - as well as the fact that there is an entire discourse of PK-bashing in NHL circles, and the fear that our "old school" management partakes of the same lunacy. Bottom line is, it's hard to fully trust the new regime as yet, partly because it hasn't done all that much. I won't be fully at ease until Subban is signed, sealed, and delivered for the long term.

Bottom line; 61-35-11 under new management, if not trusting you at least have to admit, they 'seem' to be on the right track.

And you know Subban will be signed to huge deal and really cant be worried it will get done, are you?

And with a high risk player that Subban is, it must be quite hard to try coach him.

You want him to take puck and go be a superstar, but also too have fewer egregious turnovers, bad penalties.

Gionta will likely be resigned eh? Will he take a big paycut and maybe take $2.5m/year. He has made $40m and must just want a crack at 1 more cup (if don't get it this year).

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't want Gio resigned. Heck, I'd advocate trading him at the deadline if not for the sure knowledge that the suggestion will spark a backlash. That's enough with the smurfs already. Find another solution at RW.

[DON]

I don't want Gio resigned. Heck, I'd advocate trading him at the deadline if not for the sure knowledge that the suggestion will spark a backlash. That's enough with the smurfs already. Find another solution at RW.

Collberg wont be ready next year and Andrighetto-Thomas are next best options at present.

You can advocate all u like, but trading Gionta aint happening and you know that, especially with team doing well.

I think at 1/2 current salary he could be a fine 2nd-3rd line winger. He is a good checker, seems well liked teammate and smart player.

[lazy26]

I don't want Gio resigned. Heck, I'd advocate trading him at the deadline if not for the sure knowledge that the suggestion will spark a backlash. That's enough with the smurfs already. Find another solution at RW.

Collberg wont be ready next year and Andrighetto-Thomas are next best options at present.

You can advocate all u like, but trading Gionta aint happening and you know that, especially with team doing well.

I think at 1/2 current salary he could be a fine 2nd-3rd line winger. He is a good checker, seems well liked teammate and smart player.

I feel like Gio could still be useful even as his game declines. He's good at both ends of the ice, plays intelligently and the team seems to respond well to his leadership.

The problem is (as everyone knows) is that we have too many small players, and we should be jettisoning them, not re-signing them. I would only keep Gio if we get rid of at least one of Briere, Desharnais or Gallagher. And Gio would need to take quite a discount from his current salary.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I like Gionta just fine, but as lazy26 says and everyone and his dog knows, this team is structurally askew with too many midgets - and he clearly is fairly far into the back nine. We don't need to replace him with a behemoth, but some "non-small" player who can contribute comparable offence surely isn't asking too much from the forthcoming UFA pool (or trade market). Let's see a little creativity from Mr. Zoot Suit.

[DON]

I like Gionta just fine, but as lazy26 says and everyone and his dog knows, this team is structurally askew with too many midgets - and he clearly is fairly far into the back nine. We don't need to replace him with a behemoth, but some "non-small" player who can contribute comparable offence surely isn't asking too much from the forthcoming UFA pool (or trade market). Let's see a little creativity from Mr. Zoot Suit.

The "Too many midget team" was better than 26 other teams last year.

And is better than 21 other teams this year at 3/4 poll.

Everyone and his dog keeps beating the dead size-horse and Habs keep doing fine, which sooner or later you might conclude, size really is of little importance (or smaller isnt all bad and larger isnt all good).

Simply need more skill up front, dont care ihe is size of a Parise, St.Louis, P.Kane, or that of a Byfuglien, just another all-star point producing forward.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Agree with Don.

Too often we forget that Gallagher and Galchenyuk was the team adding two top six forwards. We pumped in skill.

We also looked really good when Bournival was on fire. And Eller was scoring. DD and Patches have kicked in gear while those two are now cold. It has led to more reliance on one line when we should be built for three.

Also the size issue was inflated due to an Ottawa series where we couldn't score. If we beat Anderson we would have beaten Ottawa, regardless of getting hit. Plus that stupid game where Ottawa scored two goals that should have never counted.

[habs rule]

Let me be the devils advocate. An offer sheet from say Edmonton at 8/8.5M per would be fairly interesting. One thing sure is we wouldn't have to look for things to talk about.

An offer sheet by it's use is a tool to jack the salaries up. No offer sheet is going to be for the 8 to 8.5 that Pk will get anyways. It would have to be for 10 mill or 45 million up front or some such nonsense. An 8 to 8.5 offer sheet is going to be matched in a heart beat. The ink wouldn't be dry on the paper.

[habs rule]

I feel like Gio could still be useful even as his game declines. He's good at both ends of the ice, plays intelligently and the team seems to respond well to his leadership.

The problem is (as everyone knows) is that we have too many small players, and we should be jettisoning them, not re-signing them. I would only keep Gio if we get rid of at least one of Briere, Desharnais or Gallagher. And Gio would need to take quite a discount from his current salary.

There is no question that Gio can be valuable in coming years, the question is if we are not going to trade Gio or Markov or Plekanics or anybody of any value, how do we win the cup? Building through the draft is merely what a GM says to get himself some wiggle room with the fans. You can't honestly believe that the 20th+overall draft picks that we always seem to have are going to lead this team to the cup in 3 years. Getting/keeping players that are cheap is not going to win a cup. When did the goal of the Canadiens become, let's make the playoffs every year and go out in 1 or 2 rounds? Are a bunch of usefull old guys going to win the cup? No I don't think so. We need to trade the older guys with value, and dump the smurf patrol except for Gallagher he can play on my team any time. And we have to keep DD.

[DON]

There is no question that Gio can be valuable in coming years, the question is if we are not going to trade Gio or Markov or Plekanics or anybody of any value, how do we win the cup? Building through the draft is merely what a GM says to get himself some wiggle room with the fans. You can't honestly believe that the 20th+overall draft picks that we always seem to have are going to lead this team to the cup in 3 years. Getting/keeping players that are cheap is not going to win a cup. When did the goal of the Canadiens become, let's make the playoffs every year and go out in 1 or 2 rounds? Are a bunch of usefull old guys going to win the cup? No I don't think so. We need to trade the older guys with value, and dump the smurf patrol except for Gallagher he can play on my team any time. And we have to keep DD.

I just cant ever see Gionta being traded, he wont this year 0% chance because team is doing fine (if team tanking/missing playoffs for sure, then he would even want to go, but that aint situation)

Markov i would trade if demand is there and a nice package were offered AND a younger top 4 d-man was available to be had in another deal (my go to example would be Eller for a Byfuglien/Bogosian).

Plekanec is simply too solid a #2 shutdown centre to part with and in his prime.

But by and large buidling through the draft is smart. And in the last 2 years some very skilled kids were chosen that should pay dividends in 2-3 to 5 years, but till then, patience is needed and although boring to fans, waiting till off-season to deal is likely also smartest (not that good hockey deals cant be made in Feb but..)

[hab29RETIRED]

Collberg wont be ready next year and Andrighetto-Thomas are next best options at present.

You can advocate all u like, but trading Gionta aint happening and you know that, especially with team doing well.

I think at 1/2 current salary he could be a fine 2nd-3rd line winger. He is a good checker, seems well liked teammate and smart player.

If the Rangers are willing to move a young player like Callaghan, who is their captain and heart and soul, despite being in a play-off fight, don't know why we can't move Gionta.

[hab29RETIRED]

The "Too many midget team" was better than 26 other teams last year.

And is better than 21 other teams this year at 3/4 poll.

Everyone and his dog keeps beating the dead size-horse and Habs keep doing fine, which sooner or later you might conclude, size really is of little importance (or smaller isnt all bad and larger isnt all good).

Simply need more skill up front, dont care ihe is size of a Parise, St.Louis, P.Kane, or that of a Byfuglien, just another all-star point producing forward.

It may have been better then 26 teams in the regular season, but we were the first one's knocked of the playoff last year and had it been a full year, may not have even made the playoffs considering how the second half went.

[hab29RETIRED]

I just cant ever see Gionta being traded, he wont this year 0% chance because team is doing fine (if team tanking/missing playoffs for sure, then he would even want to go, but that aint situation)

Markov i would trade if demand is there and a nice package were offered AND a younger top 4 d-man was available to be had in another deal (my go to example would be Eller for a Byfuglien/Bogosian).

Plekanec is simply too solid a #2 shutdown centre to part with and in his prime.

But by and large buidling through the draft is smart. And in the last 2 years some very skilled kids were chosen that should pay dividends in 2-3 to 5 years, but till then, patience is needed and although boring to fans, waiting till off-season to deal is likely also smartest (not that good hockey deals cant be made in Feb but..)

I'd be much more reluctant to trade Markov then GIonta. Gionta can be replaced. Who is going to replace Markov? You pay a premium for a top 4 dman. Yes Markov would bring a much bigger return (i.e. a 1st + prospect easily), than Gionta (2nd + maybe a prospect), but while we could easily get another top 6 forward how is BIGGER, more skilled and younger, its much more difficult to get a top 4 dman.

[DON]

If the Rangers are willing to move a young player like Callaghan, who is their captain and heart and soul, despite being in a play-off fight, don't know why we can't move Gionta.

Can of course, but you know they wont (and I likely wouldn't neither, small return for him and worth more to Habs). And apples/oranges, Callahan is looking for big $$ and Sather simply dosent want him to walk for nothing.

[DON]

It may have been better then 26 teams in the regular season, but we were the first one's knocked of the playoff last year and had it been a full year, may not have even made the playoffs considering how the second half went.

Injuries derailed team, but I know is not a real valid excuse (simply not deep at key positions). But, they could of easily beat Sens and were favoured wernt they? But, in playoffs just never know, average is something like 4 upsets in first round isn't it?

[illWill]

You can't honestly believe that the 20th+overall draft picks that we always seem to have are going to lead this team to the cup in 3 years.

There you go again with your 3 year Cup plan. We all must be missing something that you know

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

It may have been better then 26 teams in the regular season, but we were the first one's knocked of the playoff last year and had it been a full year, may not have even made the playoffs considering how the second half went.

we were in the middle of a slump when the playoffs started.... price was performing badly compared to the early part of the year. we just lost emelin and had to call up a kid to replace him for the final stretch and first round (tinordi is still in hamilton by the way), all of gionta (bicep), patch(shoulder) prust(ribs) were banged up.

to say we wouldn't of made it is complete speculation.

we still outplayed the sens i believe over the full 15 periods played in that series. i remember in game#1 price giving up a lead and us going down inside the first 5 minutes of the 3rd after smashing them for 2 periods. we pounded them in game 2!! game 3 we got sucked into the broad street game and lost like we always do! game #4 we give up a goal with 2 seconds left in the game to force overtime that was kicked in!

to me the bounces weren't going our way just yet and it happened to be the playoffs. coupled with the fact that anderson completely stone walled us and price just couldn't find his game. maybe he had is wedding/ honeymoon on his mind and needed his season to end early! i don't know cause he's a completely different player this season.

difference in round 1 last season was goaltending between mtl and sens. and nothing else