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11 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

No chance they are getting a prospect like brook for honka.

 

I think... one for one hudon for honka.

 

Honka ans hudon are in very similar situations.  Prospects who flashed talent but ultimately lost faith of coaches, arent nhl regulars, cant go to the ahl without waivers and are regular scratches.

Honka was a top 15 pick and put up solid numbers for a 20-22 year old in the AHL. 

 

They're not just going to throw a high-end D prospect away for a fringe winger. 

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14 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

Honka was a top 15 pick and put up solid numbers for a 23 year old in the AHL. 

 

They're not just going to throw a high-end D prospect away for a fringe winger. 

 

Pronman's prospect rankings have Honka in the "legit" range, whereas Brook is "very good".

 

Hudon might not be good enough, but if it's to be a prospect, then something in the Ikonen-Olofsson-Norlinder range would make more sense than Brook. But Bergevin would surely prefer to hand over someone who is already under contract.

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23 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

Honka was a top 15 pick and put up solid numbers for a 20-22 year old in the AHL. 

 

They're not just going to throw a high-end D prospect away for a fringe winger. 

 

The only thing that is different from Hudon is where they were drafted, and that means nothing today. 

 

Hudon had solid numbers in the AHL. 

 

Hudon even had a solid NHL season.  (something Honka never had). 

Then Hudon fell out of the coach's favour. 

 

There really isn't much difference between the two.   Hudon is also a year and a half older (June 94 vs December 95). 

 

Hudon + like a 6th or 7th should get it done. 

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1 minute ago, Habber31 said:

I disagree, but if that is the case, this should be a no brainer. 

 

Sure, it would be if Honka was actually good. 

 

But the reason his value is so low, is because he's not good. 

 

His draft position should be thrown out the window.  This is a rehabilitation project for a defenceman who failed in a system where many young defencemen (Klingberg, Lindell, Heiskanen) are thriving.  So we have to ask what is wrong with him. 

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EEWb6fDWwAEetwF.jpeg

Honka ranks in the 94th percentile in exiting the defensive zone with the puck on a per-60 minute basis, according to Corey Sznajder. The Stars have controlled 52.1% of the shot attempts and 54.3% of the expected goals with Honka on the ice at five-on-five throughout his career, notes Natural Stat Trick.

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9 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

 

EEWb6fDWwAEetwF.jpeg

Honka ranks in the 94th percentile in exiting the defensive zone with the puck on a per-60 minute basis, according to Corey Sznajder. The Stars have controlled 52.1% of the shot attempts and 54.3% of the expected goals with Honka on the ice at five-on-five throughout his career, notes Natural Stat Trick.

 

 

Small sample size with 57% of his shifts starting in the offensive zone. 

 

Also playing sheltered minutes against third and fourth lines. 

 

Hudon is also a career 54.7% Corsi (+4.6 relative to team), with 59% career offensive zone starts and playing against third and fourth lines.  There isn't a whole lot of difference. 

Both have done well with heavily sheltered minutes but don't have the trust of coaches to do more than that. 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

So we have to ask what is wrong with him. 

 

That’s really the point.

 

But given that Bergevin is interested, I have to believe that they see an opportunity and think that they know how to unlock Honka’s potential.

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54 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

That’s really the point.

 

But given that Bergevin is interested, I have to believe that they see an opportunity and think that they know how to unlock Honka’s potential.

 

I know the analogy is quite imperfect, but one could also argue that between Kulak and even Reilly, the Habs have shown some skill in getting value out of castaway young-ish defencemen. (Of course a pessimist could retort that this says more about the dismal state of the Habs' blueline depth than about their excellence in rehabilitating young defencemen. But that is unlikely to be MB's interpretation). Also it fits with the "Bargain Basement Bergy" paradigm to take a flyer on a Honka, assuming the asking price to be modest. Plus "Honka" is a sure-fire entry in the NHL's Best Surname Sweepstakes.

 

I've said this before, but it surprises me a little bit that the Habs have not been linked to Ben Hutton. The kid had a rebound year last season and seemed to show himself to be a serviceable bottom pairing, puck-moving LD. Probably an upgrade on Reilly, who never won the coach's trust. He would also seem to be an attractive candidate for Bargain Basement Bergy to try rehabiliating.  Ah well.

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9 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 

That’s really the point.

 

But given that Bergevin is interested, I have to believe that they see an opportunity and think that they know how to unlock Honka’s potential.

 

Sure, see if you can unlock the potential. 

But you have to buy low too... and that is someone like Hudon... not someone like Josh Brook. 

 

I don't have an issue with a reclamation project like Kulak was.... but we gave up very little for Kulak, two defencemen in Valiet and Taormina.  One of whom was a failed prospect, the other was a 30 year old career AHLer.  Or you do reclamation project for reclamation project, something like Chaput for Weal, Deslauriers for Redmond,  or Pateryn for Benn, Smith-Pelley for Matteau, Sekac for Smith-Pelley, Kassian for Prust, Bourque for Allen,  or ones that didn't work for either side like Philip Samuelsson for Keegan Lowe, Rychel for Shinkaruk, Tokarski for Friberg, Thomas for Lessio, or Bozon for Racine.   

 

We've done these types of problem for problem... or change of scenery trades a bunch of times under Bergevin.  There are probably even more. 

 

But what you don't see in any of those is a Josh Brook level of prospect.  You see a guy who doesn't fit with his team for a guy who doesn't fit with ours. 

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9 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I know the analogy is quite imperfect, but one could also argue that between Kulak and even Reilly, the Habs have shown some skill in getting value out of castaway young-ish defencemen. (Of course a pessimist could retort that this says more about the dismal state of the Habs' blueline depth than about their excellence in rehabilitating young defencemen. But that is unlikely to be MB's interpretation). Also it fits with the "Bargain Basement Bergy" paradigm to take a flyer on a Honka, assuming the asking price to be modest. Plus "Honka" is a sure-fire entry in the NHL's Best Surname Sweepstakes.

 

I've said this before, but it surprises me a little bit that the Habs have not been linked to Ben Hutton. The kid had a rebound year last season and seemed to show himself to be a serviceable bottom pairing, puck-moving LD. Probably an upgrade on Reilly, who never won the coach's trust. He would also seem to be an attractive candidate for Bargain Basement Bergy to try rehabiliating.  Ah well.

 

Well here is the issue.  The Habs left defence has a ton of these maybe guys. 

 

Mete, Chiarot, and Kulak seem to be the three Lefties who will make the lineup regularly. 

 

Then you have Reilly, Oullet, Leskinen, Olofsson and even Alzner. 

We have a whole lot of flotsam and jetsam on the left side of our D, and Hutton seems like just another piece of that.  Jake Gardiner is one thing, cause he would be a guy you surely slot into the top 4.  But if its for another guy to be that 7th defenceman, what is the point?

 

You've got 48 guys under contract right now, on the 50 contract limit.   

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5 hours ago, Commandant said:

But you have to buy low too... and that is someone like Hudon... not someone like Josh Brook. 

 

Yeah, that’s pretty much what I said in an earlier post, too.

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12 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Well here is the issue.  The Habs left defence has a ton of these maybe guys. 

 

Mete, Chiarot, and Kulak seem to be the three Lefties who will make the lineup regularly. 

 

Then you have Reilly, Oullet, Leskinen, Olofsson and even Alzner. 

We have a whole lot of flotsam and jetsam on the left side of our D, and Hutton seems like just another piece of that.  Jake Gardiner is one thing, cause he would be a guy you surely slot into the top 4.  But if its for another guy to be that 7th defenceman, what is the point?

 

You've got 48 guys under contract right now, on the 50 contract limit.   

 

I guess that's true - as usual, you are excellent at seeing the big picture. I'm just disappointed in the fact that we lack anything resembling a top-pairing LD (indeed, the team has not meaningfully upgraded at all, as far as I can see) and am mentally combing the scrapheap, even though it serves no real organizational purpose.

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According to Eric Engels the offer to Dallas from the Habs for Honka is a player.  The article didn't say or speculate who that player was.  The article is up on thehockeynews.com right now.  Also seen a tweet from Engels yesterday when reading comments on anther site stating the same thing, but that the Stars were more interested in a pick than a player.

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3 hours ago, John B said:

According to Eric Engels the offer to Dallas from the Habs for Honka is a player.  The article didn't say or speculate who that player was.  The article is up on thehockeynews.com right now.  Also seen a tweet from Engels yesterday when reading comments on anther site stating the same thing, but that the Stars were more interested in a pick than a player.

 

That's basically a regurgitation of Engels' report.  Montreal's preference is to move a player - they need to for contract purposes.  Dallas would rather a pick than get a reclamation project at this point.

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Friedman seems to think Drouin is in play.

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Here's a question with the log jam at centers on the habs.... Yes you read that right the habs have a lot of centers. Is Danault trade bait for the habs? The habs centers now are.

 

Danault 

Domi 

Kotkaniemi 

Suzuki 

Poehling 

Weal 

Thompson 

 

The way Suzuki has been playing I think he's made the team over poehling who's injured.

 

I would shop Danault along with one of our 2nd round picks to see if we can improve our LD.

 

Have the centers look like this

 

Domi 

Kotkaniemi 

Suzuki 

Thompson 

 

Put Weal on the wing and Poehling starts the year in the AHL.

 

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1 hour ago, Metallica said:

Here's a question with the log jam at centers on the habs.... Yes you read that right the habs have a lot of centers. Is Danault trade bait for the habs? The habs centers now are.

 

Danault 

Domi 

Kotkaniemi 

Suzuki 

Poehling 

Weal 

Thompson 

 

The way Suzuki has been playing I think he's made the team over poehling who's injured.

 

I would shop Danault along with one of our 2nd round picks to see if we can improve our LD.

 

Have the centers look like this

 

Domi 

Kotkaniemi 

Suzuki 

Thompson 

 

Put Weal on the wing and Poehling starts the year in the AHL.

 

I think that you greatly underestimate what Danault provides during a hockey game.  I wouldn't trust any of these 4 C  against the other team's top line.

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35 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

I think that you greatly underestimate what Danault provides during a hockey game.  I wouldn't trust any of these 4 C  against the other team's top line.

I don't but I see more upside in having  Domi, Kotkaniemi, Suzuki and Poehling than I do Danault. If I had to trade one out of the 5, to me the odd man out is Danault.

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I don't see the upside in losing 6-5 instead of winning 3-2.

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1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

I think that you greatly underestimate what Danault provides during a hockey game.  I wouldn't trust any of these 4 C  against the other team's top line.

 

I dont know why you were downvoted.  You were 100% correct.

 

Danault provides something that no other habs centre currently provides.  Kotkaniemi might be there soon but its a lot to ask of a 19 year old to play against the other teams top lines.

 

He is suggesting domi, kk, suzuki, poehling?

 

What?

 

Domi isnt good enough defensively for the role and is about to start his second season as a centre.

 

Poehling and suzuki are a pair of 20 year old raw rookies, who have played zero pro hockey.

 

Kk is a 19 year old in his second nhl season.

 

 

Its crazy to think any of them is ready to do what Danault does as the top checking centre.

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3 hours ago, Metallica said:

Here's a question with the log jam at centers on the habs.... Yes you read that right the habs have a lot of centers. Is Danault trade bait for the habs? The habs centers now are.

 

Danault 

Domi 

Kotkaniemi 

Suzuki 

Poehling 

Weal 

Thompson 

 

The way Suzuki has been playing I think he's made the team over poehling who's injured.

 

I would shop Danault along with one of our 2nd round picks to see if we can improve our LD.

 

Have the centers look like this

 

Domi 

Kotkaniemi 

Suzuki 

Thompson 

 

Put Weal on the wing and Poehling starts the year in the AHL.

 

Uh, would you tear off your front door to repair a leaking window? Trading Danault now would cause far more problems than it would solve.

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On 9/19/2019 at 7:08 AM, dlbalr said:

That's basically a regurgitation of Engels' report.  Montreal's preference is to move a player - they need to for contract purposes.  Dallas would rather a pick than get a reclamation project at this point.

 

The asking price is apparently down to a fourth-rounder now. I should hope Bergevin could find a player with equivalent value to send over.

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Engels; Poehling may practice with team today.

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On 9/25/2019 at 2:17 AM, tomh009 said:

 

The asking price is apparently down to a fourth-rounder now. I should hope Bergevin could find a player with equivalent value to send over.

If that is true maybe we could send Hudon and 4th for Honka and a 7th. Mtl needs to clear up a contract spot 

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