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I can guarantee that if MB had the opportunity at any point to make a Petry type move for a top 4 LD, we wouldn’t be discussing this today.  The problem is team see that we are desperate for a LD, so our price is a little higher.  

 

We have a LD coming next year, if MB is right about Romanov.  Mete isn’t a first pairing guy, at least not yet.  Most suggestions on here about guys we should be targeting will cost us a good prospect or 1st round pick.  The rest that are cheaper, aren’t really any better than we have now.

 

Why aren’t we just being happy being a bubble team with a very promising prospect pool?  Closer to the trade deadline, more players become available and maybe we can plug the hole.  Better late than never in my opinion.  Rushing this to maybe make the playoffs and go nowhere, with a big price tag, is a bad idea.  Look at the oilers for reference.

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33 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

I can guarantee that if MB had the opportunity at any point to make a Petry type move for a top 4 LD, we wouldn’t be discussing this today.  The problem is team see that we are desperate for a LD, so our price is a little higher.  

 

We have a LD coming next year, if MB is right about Romanov.  Mete isn’t a first pairing guy, at least not yet.  Most suggestions on here about guys we should be targeting will cost us a good prospect or 1st round pick.  The rest that are cheaper, aren’t really any better than we have now.

 

Why aren’t we just being happy being a bubble team with a very promising prospect pool?  Closer to the trade deadline, more players become available and maybe we can plug the hole.  Better late than never in my opinion.  Rushing this to maybe make the playoffs and go nowhere, with a big price tag, is a bad idea.  Look at the oilers for reference.

So the plan is to wait a year for Romonov, before we go for it?  Is Romonov a sure thing???  Is he a Dahlin or Hughes level prospect??  We are going to count on a 20 year old who wasn't a consensus top 5 pick to suddenly come in and be the LD unicorn we so desperately need??  That's the plan???  I guess part of the plan is also to HOPE that KK shows next year he is the top line centre, suzuki becomes a 75 port guy and Caufield will come in and score 40 and suddenly make as an elite team??  Or is the plan that we give all of this kids the 3 or 4 years they need and than hope that Price and Weber are still elite.  

 

Sounds like a plan of wanting to be half pregnant and hope we suddenly have triplets.

 

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Yes, because that it was people have said in the thread. 

 

9f0506939af47d79bd76f256ac50c59a.jpg

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39 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Here is the issue... Does this mean that there are no savvy GMs anywhere in the NHL, cause its not just Bergevin who is failing to get a top 4 LD, its that no GM is making this move, and there are probably 15-20 teams in the league who could use a better LD in their top 4. 

 

Not every team has available assets to make this kind of trade or are in our position of being close to more than a bubble team.

 

I am not suggesting we gut the team or cut off our noses to spite our faces.

 

GMs have made trades like this and they will again

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The thing is that we no longer have several big holes on this team like we used to.

 

We need a power forward to play with Domi (ideally) but that is not a desperate need and Caufield may be that guy. In the mean time we have reasonable assets to play on that line.

 

While Romanov may be that guy on LD we are waiting 3 years-ish to see that impact and in 3 years this team will have other holes to worry about.

 

Why are we waiting 3 years to hopefully be a playoff team?

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22 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

So the plan is to wait a year for Romonov, before we go for it?  Is Romonov a sure thing???  Is he a Dahlin or Hughes level prospect??  We are going to count on a 20 year old who wasn't a consensus top 5 pick to suddenly come in and be the LD unicorn we so desperately need??  That's the plan???  I guess part of the plan is also to HOPE that KK shows next year he is the top line centre, suzuki becomes a 75 port guy and Caufield will come in and score 40 and suddenly make as an elite team??  Or is the plan that we give all of this kids the 3 or 4 years they need and than hope that Price and Weber are still elite.  

 

Sounds like a plan of wanting to be half pregnant and hope we suddenly have triplets.

 

Over dramatize much?

 

whats your solution?  Strip the farm for a window of a couple of years, then have no future, again?  How did that work out for us in the early 2000’s?  McDonagh for Gomez anyone? 

 

We aren’t anywhere near a cup right now, so why piss away everything to plug a hole that won’t make a lick of difference in the short term, and be a detriment to the organization in the long run?  

 

Sounds like someone is content with watching the habs play first round playoff series for awhile.

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13 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

Over dramatize much?

 

whats your solution?  Strip the farm for a window of a couple of years, then have no future, again?  How did that work out for us in the early 2000’s?  McDonagh for Gomez anyone? 

 

We aren’t anywhere near a cup right now, so why piss away everything to plug a hole that won’t make a lick of difference in the short term, and be a detriment to the organization in the long run?  

 

Sounds like someone is content with watching the habs play first round playoff series for awhile.

 

Strip the farm? We have no reason to do that.

 

How did we get to the place where missing the playoffs is a normal and okay thing? Missing the playoffs used to be a shameful thing and now we are in a place where we are happy to miss the playoffs for several seasons in a row because, "don't worry in 3 years we will compete for the cup".

 

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Caufield isnt a power forward, he is smaller than Byron. He is a goal scorer that the habs can certainly use. 

 

They do need size and toughness up front for sure, 

 

They have some vets they can move at the deadline for 1st rounders and young talent. especially if they arent in the playoff picture at the deadline

 

 

 

 

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For sure, this could be missing the playoffs 4 out of the past 5 years for MB, 

 

One would think the prospect pool would be deeper with those results 

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No one is talking about eviscerating all the young talent in a desperate attempt to 'go for it.' We are talking about trying to improve the team, which MB did not do over the summer in any discernable way; and that may require some slice of our overall pick/prospect pool. But a slice is not the whole pie. Instead of talking about McDonagh for Gomez, why don't you talk about Kovalev for Balej? Or Petry for a 2nd and a 5th?

 

What's too often overlooked is that playoff experience is a very valuable thing for young players to attain. You can have a team full of great young stars and it will still usually require multiple seasons to figure out how to achieve regular-season success and then figure out the difference between regular season success and playoff success. Similarly, you can have all that talent and need multiple seasons to figure out how to tweak things to get the blend just right. Just look at TO, a group that is vastly more talented than the Habs project to become and yet still has done exactly f**k all in the crunch. Successful player development requires playoff experience. And the longer it takes guys like KoKo and Suzuki to get that experience, the longer it will take for them to morph into tested playoff veterans who are actually capable of a deep run.

 

If you want to add UFAs at some point, it also helps to have a team that is not universally regarded as a loser. Getting to the playoffs helps correct that impression too.

 

So I'm not buying this false binary between improving the team now and selling the farm. It's just more Bergevin bullspittle. Forgive me if I decline to lap it up.

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4 minutes ago, Chris said:

For sure, this could be missing the playoffs 4 out of the past 5 years for MB, 

 

One would think the prospect pool would be deeper with those results 

 

Our pool is supposedly one of the fifth or sixth best in the league. Now a normal organization would see that as a strength and be prepared to deal strategically with those assets. Not us, of course.

 

I suppose the choice before is this. If the Habs have a great prospect pool, then there's no reason not to deploy a slice of it to get back assets which will help us become a playoff team. If they don't, then MB has made poor use of four years of de facto tanking.

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26 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

Over dramatize much?

 

whats your solution?  Strip the farm for a window of a couple of years, then have no future, again?  How did that work out for us in the early 2000’s?  McDonagh for Gomez anyone? 

 

We aren’t anywhere near a cup right now, so why piss away everything to plug a hole that won’t make a lick of difference in the short term, and be a detriment to the organization in the long run?  

 

Sounds like someone is content with watching the habs play first round playoff series for awhile.

Choose a direction.  Either don't waste Price and Weber's useful years and get them help, or trade them an build for the future.

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2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Our pool is supposedly one of the fifth or sixth best in the league. Now a normal organization would see that as a strength and be prepared to deal strategically with those assets. Not us, of course.

 

I suppose the choice before is this. If the Habs have a great prospect pool, then there's no reason not to deploy a slice of it to get back assets which will help us become a playoff team. If they don't, then MB has made poor use of four years of de facto tanking.

we are deep on guys with potential, but where is the Eichel, Dahlin, Patterson, Hughes - the truly can't miss prospects that have a more immediate impact.  Those are the guys we'd have a chance on if we did spend 2 or 3 years with high lottery picks.

 

I'd much rather have KK, Suzuki and Poehling spend a year in Lavel and show they can dominate as  top line players than have them play 12-16 minutes a night on the 3rd/4th lines.  That would mean instead of a bubble team missing the playoffs, we improve our lottery odds.  

It's one thing to get playoff experience when you know you are going to be a playoff teams and maybe win a round or two.  It's a whole different situation when you HOPE to make the playoffs as a best case scenario.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Yes, because that it was people have said in the thread. 

 

9f0506939af47d79bd76f256ac50c59a.jpg

sounds like what you do with all of my posts.

What is MB"s strategy????  Hope that Romonov becomes the unicorn top LD next year??  That Suzuki and KK will suddenly become top liners and get us into the playoffs???  Or is the expectation that KK, Suzuki, Romanov, Mete, Poehling, Caufield are the type of prospects that are going to to take 3 to 4 years to become actual impactful players (if they achieve their ceilings).  If its the latter, than what the hell hare we hanging onto Price and Weber for???

 

And just to correct your bullshit, i gave props to MB for the Vanek and Petry pickups.  Domi has worked out well - but is NOT  a top line centre some hope he will be and Danualt is NOT a viable top line centre on any team that hopes to even resemble a contender.  He'd be the ideal 3rd line centre for a team like Toronto,Calgary,  or Pittsburgh.  

Overall, i don't buy in the half pregnant strategy that MB's trying to sell - because you can't friggin be half pregnant!!!!!

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33 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

No one is talking about eviscerating all the young talent in a desperate attempt to 'go for it.' We are talking about trying to improve the team, which MB did not do over the summer in any discernable way; and that may require some slice of our overall pick/prospect pool. But a slice is not the whole pie. Instead of talking about McDonagh for Gomez, why don't you talk about Kovalev for Balej? Or Petry for a 2nd and a 5th?

 

What's too often overlooked is that playoff experience is a very valuable thing for young players to attain. You can have a team full of great young stars and it will still usually require multiple seasons to figure out the difference between regular season success and playoff success. Similarly, you can have all that talent and need multiple seasons to figure out how to tweak things to get the blend just right. Just look at TO, a group that is vastly more talented than the Habs project to become and yet still has done exactly f**k all in the crunch. Successful player development requires playoff experience. And the longer it takes guys like KoKo and Suzuki to get that experience, the longer it will take for them to morph into tested playoff veterans who are actually capable of a deep run.

 

If you want to add UFAs at some point, it also helps to have a team that is not universally regarded as a loser. Getting to the playoffs helps correct that impression too.

 

So I'm not buying this false binary between improving the team now and selling the farm. It's just more Bergevin bullspittle. Forgive me if I decline to lap it up.

I don't think its binary either.  I think you have to take a hard look at this team - that in the next 3 to 4 years has zero chance of being a true contender.  So you have to pick the guys that will still be useful and able to mentor the youth (i.e. Gallagher) and trade the ones who will end up being cap anchors and declining if and when the current crop of prospects achieve their ceilings (i.e. Price, Weber). I'd add Petry, but i think you need to keep at least one nhl calibre Dman (even though Petry has always played his best hockey when he was playing for a team with zero expectations.  

 

We aren't the bruins who were able to hang onto Chara, because they still have top end talent in Bergeron, Marchand, Krejki and did a hell of a better job in drafting and developing Pasternak and their young D core.  Do we have similar prospects who have been able to have an immediate impact like boston did???  They also did not tie up $10M on a goalie and have been able to get a viable backup.  If Price goes down, we are a lottery team.  when Lundquist when down, the rangers were still a playoff team, if Rask goes down, the bruins still are a solid playoff team, because they have always had capable backups.  Not this Neimi, Kinkaid shit we've seen here.

 

4 or 5 years ago when we still a legitimate playoff team and price went down, we could have made the playoffs IF we had a goalie.  What did MB do - squat!  Just like he his doing to fill the defensive holes right now.  I don't see the value in finishing between 17 and 20 most years.  Either make sure you are a legitimate playoff team, or improve your drafting position.

 

For all the issues toronto and edmonton have had, i'd trade our roster for either of theirs in a heartbeat.

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36 minutes ago, Chris said:

Caufield isnt a power forward, he is smaller than Byron. He is a goal scorer that the habs can certainly use. 

 

They do need size and toughness up front for sure, 

 

They have some vets they can move at the deadline for 1st rounders and young talent. especially if they arent in the playoff picture at the deadline

 

 

 

 

Yeah Caufield is a sniper so that is what i meant by he might be the guy to play with Domi.

 

Domi needs either a sniper or a bone crushing buzz saw to create havoc for opposing dmen.

 

We should get help now but if the plan is to wait another 3 years then we absolutely should trade Price (and yes he is certainly tradable for a good return)

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Domi honestly needs 1 of each, he played much better with shaw on his wing, 

 

Shaw works the corners and the front of the net and creates space, 

 

Domi is a playmaker first,  caufield would look good on his wing

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i dont think MB gives up a 1st next year since draft is in  MTL but who knows?

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MB should be acquiring more 1st rounders, 

 

Tatar, Byron, Petry if they arent in a playoff spot should be moved 

 

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

So the plan is to wait a year for Romonov, before we go for it?  Is Romonov a sure thing???  Is he a Dahlin or Hughes level prospect??  We are going to count on a 20 year old who wasn't a consensus top 5 pick to suddenly come in and be the LD unicorn we so desperately need??  That's the plan???  I guess part of the plan is also to HOPE that KK shows next year he is the top line centre, suzuki becomes a 75 port guy and Caufield will come in and score 40 and suddenly make as an elite team??  Or is the plan that we give all of this kids the 3 or 4 years they need and than hope that Price and Weber are still elite.  

 

Sounds like a plan of wanting to be half pregnant and hope we suddenly have triplets.

 

I hear you when you say ask where is the plan? Patience it is one thing but it lllllllooooooooooooonnnnnnnnggggg wait 😕

Now in the 2nd round there are "gems" to be had, no? Weber, the 1 who can't be named, so there is no reason why the Russian kid can't come next year and be a "difference" maker, right? he has been playing with men.

heck! he might even look like Josi next to #6 if that is where (IF he plays on Team) he plays.

I think MB wanna give 2 shows in next few years: 1) Draft coming up, I think he will try for more picks as opposed to loosing em for this draft.

                                                                                        2) get a playoff Team on the ice. I would rather he figure a way to speed that up to a contending Team live and direct but Sam P he is not.

(edit) so we need i feel to trust the wait. I do more now since, Ducharme and Bouchard are talking to the kids and not just Muller. SL, JJD probably not so good at it I think

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

Not every team has available assets to make this kind of trade or are in our position of being close to more than a bubble team.

 

I am not suggesting we gut the team or cut off our noses to spite our faces.

 

GMs have made trades like this and they will again

 

You are suggesting good lhd are available at a price that doesnt gut our team.

 

And then you suggest other teams who need lhd are trading for these unknown players, who they need, cause they dont have the assets to get them?

 

What... how can both be possible... that the d are available at a cheap price that doesnt gut our system... but at a price that other teams dont have the assets for.

 

Sorry not buying it.

 

I think nhl teams are hoarding top 4 defencemen due to the fact the supply is a lot smaller than the demand with 31 teams now in the league.

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

The thing is that we no longer have several big holes on this team like we used to.

 

We need a power forward to play with Domi (ideally) but that is not a desperate need and Caufield may be that guy. In the mean time we have reasonable assets to play on that line.

 

While Romanov may be that guy on LD we are waiting 3 years-ish to see that impact and in 3 years this team will have other holes to worry about.

 

Why are we waiting 3 years to hopefully be a playoff team?

 

Who said we are waiting three years to be a playoff team?  We were in the hunt last year to the final weekend and are currently in a playoff spot.

 

This is a bubble team which means depending on results we may or may not get in.

 

We are waiting three years not to just make the playoffs but to be a serious contender.

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

For sure, this could be missing the playoffs 4 out of the past 5 years for MB, 

 

One would think the prospect pool would be deeper with those results 

 

Its one of the top 5 pools in the league and thats considering we have a 19 year old c, a 20 year old c, and two 21 year old d as nhl regulars in kk, suzuki, mete and fleury.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

No one is talking about eviscerating all the young talent in a desperate attempt to 'go for it.' We are talking about trying to improve the team, which MB did not do over the summer in any discernable way; and that may require some slice of our overall pick/prospect pool. But a slice is not the whole pie. Instead of talking about McDonagh for Gomez, why don't you talk about Kovalev for Balej? Or Petry for a 2nd and a 5th?

 

What's too often overlooked is that playoff experience is a very valuable thing for young players to attain. You can have a team full of great young stars and it will still usually require multiple seasons to figure out how to achieve regular-season success and then figure out the difference between regular season success and playoff success. Similarly, you can have all that talent and need multiple seasons to figure out how to tweak things to get the blend just right. Just look at TO, a group that is vastly more talented than the Habs project to become and yet still has done exactly f**k all in the crunch. Successful player development requires playoff experience. And the longer it takes guys like KoKo and Suzuki to get that experience, the longer it will take for them to morph into tested playoff veterans who are actually capable of a deep run.

 

If you want to add UFAs at some point, it also helps to have a team that is not universally regarded as a loser. Getting to the playoffs helps correct that impression too.

 

So I'm not buying this false binary between improving the team now and selling the farm. It's just more Bergevin bullspittle. Forgive me if I decline to lap it up.

 

I agree, we shouldnt be talking mcdonagh for gomez, or kovalev for balej.

 

I want to talk from the start of last season when a 28th plaved team jn 2018 showed that they had taken a jump from the bottom of the league and a long rebuild was needed to being a bubble team.

 

Since that happened what LHD are moving in the NHL.  That is how we will know what the current market is.

 

The only trades i see are

 

Hanifin (lhd) and Lindholm for dougie hamilton (rhd) and ferland.   A trade we dont have the assets to really match.  Moving a top rhd for a top lhd is lateral at best in our situation not to mention hamilton is way younger than petry and weber even if you have them at the same level.

 

Muzzin (1.5 years of contract) for a 1st rounder, a dman recently drafted in rd2, and a winger recently drafted in rd2.  

 

Did you want to give... a 1st, josh brook, and jesse ylonen for 1.5 years of muzzin?

 

Those are the players we know were available.

 

Everything else is speculation

 

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28 minutes ago, Chris said:

MB should be acquiring more 1st rounders, 

 

Tatar, Byron, Petry if they arent in a playoff spot should be moved 

 

 

We will likely be on the bubble at the deadline.  Neither a sure playoff team nor a sure non-playoff team.  Things are so close that we will be fighting for that spot.

 

That said, Byron isnt getting you a first rounder. Not with his play and injury right now.

 

Trading petry or tatar would be a sure way of taking a bubble team and putting us out of the playoffs... also neither player is a rental... meaning we control them beyond this year.

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