alfredoh2009 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: Domi is kind of like Pacioretty, we didn't want to trade him, but he was Bergevin best option to get a high return on. If Domi wants around 7mil a year I think Bergevin going to trade him rather than pay him. But if he's around 5.5mil a year he stays as a habs. A younger version of Patches, never close to 30g seasons. More like... Cammalleri ?! Desharnais ?! A. Kotsistin?! Edited January 30, 2020 by alfredoh2009 Edited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: A younger version of Patches, never close to 30g seasons. More like... Cammalleri ?! Desharnais ?! A. Kotsistin?! No I Ment the situation, we traded Pacioretty because he would give us the higher return . Domi right now out of the centers we have other than Danault we give us the higher trade return. Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, poehling are still young. Can't capitalize on their trade value unless you package them with someone or picks. But domi alone could get you a higher return if you don't want to pay him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 By the time Patches was traded, he had five 30goal seasons. Teams had a good idea what they were getting. Domi has had 1 season of 70pts, and other seasons closer to the 50-55pt realm (including this year). The situations aren't at all similar. The closest the Habs would have in value to Pacioretty is Gallagher. Expiring term after next season, established NHLer with a couple of 30 goal seasons behind him. Geez, talking about youth movements and wanting to get rid of a 24 year old player. Domi is worth more to the Habs as a player than as a trade asset. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, huzer said: Geez, talking about youth movements and wanting to get rid of a 24 year old player. Domi is worth more to the Habs as a player than as a trade asset. I know. I had first suggested to trade Tatar (closer to Pacioretty) but the Habs do not have a player of that caliber in their roster (sorry Gallagher) Then Petry, I was told the Habs are too thin on defence and that would not make sense Now that Dominhas been pushed to the wing by Suzuki, we are discussing him and the feedback is that he is the closest we have to a young veteran we should be building around soooo.... my question is: what is going to give? Something is gotta give, right? Standing still is not an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Now that Dominhas been pushed to the wing by Suzuki, we are discussing him and the feedback is that he is the closest we have to a young veteran we should be building around I don't think you build around Domi. I just don't think he would return something of more value (current or future) to the Habs. Ultimately, I'm missing the point, though, in that I'm not aboard gutting the team in its entirety and I take no joy in selling off every player in the hopes of piling up losses. And again, I'm adding to the rumor thread yet another conversation that has devolved from rumors into "TEAM TANK!!!" discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, huzer said: By the time Patches was traded, he had five 30goal seasons. Teams had a good idea what they were getting. Domi has had 1 season of 70pts, and other seasons closer to the 50-55pt realm (including this year). The situations aren't at all similar. The closest the Habs would have in value to Pacioretty is Gallagher. Expiring term after next season, established NHLer with a couple of 30 goal seasons behind him. Geez, talking about youth movements and wanting to get rid of a 24 year old player. Domi is worth more to the Habs as a player than as a trade asset. You're not listening, we didn't want to trade Pacioretty but had too. He was our best opinion to get back what we needed to fill holes. We find ourselves in a similar situation with our centers. Which is why I compared it to Pacioretty. Out of our centers if we were to trade one of them it would be between Domi and Poehling. Domi would be the one giving us the higher return then Poehling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: You're not listening, we didn't want to trade Pacioretty but had too. He was our best opinion to get back what we needed to fill holes. We find ourselves in a similar situation with our centers. Which is why I compared it to Pacioretty. Out of our centers if we were to trade one of them it would be between Domi and Poehling. Domi would be the one giving us the higher return then Poehling. All you merit at this point is an eye roll. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link67 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said: You're not listening, we didn't want to trade Pacioretty but had too. He was our best opinion to get back what we needed to fill holes. We find ourselves in a similar situation with our centers. Which is why I compared it to Pacioretty. Out of our centers if we were to trade one of them it would be between Domi and Poehling. Domi would be the one giving us the higher return then Poehling. Patches was nearing 30, Domi is not. When you are building through youth and drafting as we are, it makes no sense to trade productive 24- 25 year olds, they still hold a lot of value at a long term rate for you. It is simply too soon to trade Domi at this point, we might not know exactly where he fits in the puzzle yet, but that doesn't mean he isn't a part of it. I'd only consider the option of moving him if someone called me, and offered something too good to pass up, i'm certainly not calling other teams about him unless it sounds like he is going to want a trojan horse as a contract. My gut says he loves it here, and though he will require a healthy pay raise, it won't be anything unfair or that we can't fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Habsfan89 said: Domi is kind of like Pacioretty, we didn't want to trade him, but he was Bergevin best option to get a high return on. If Domi wants around 7mil a year I think Bergevin going to trade him rather than pay him. But if he's around 5.5mil a year he stays as a habs. Pacioretty 29 when traded... its not the same thing to sign a 24 year old and a 29 year old long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 hours ago, huzer said: Geez, talking about youth movements and wanting to get rid of a 24 year old player. Domi is worth more to the Habs as a player than as a trade asset. I don't get it. It makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Everyone wants to trade domi for picks and prospects. I posted this once already but it still applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: I know. I had first suggested to trade Tatar (closer to Pacioretty) but the Habs do not have a player of that caliber in their roster (sorry Gallagher) Then Petry, I was told the Habs are too thin on defence and that would not make sense Now that Dominhas been pushed to the wing by Suzuki, we are discussing him and the feedback is that he is the closest we have to a young veteran we should be building around soooo.... my question is: what is going to give? Something is gotta give, right? Standing still is not an option. I don't see that many people arguing we can't trade Tatar or Petry.... just that we can't trade them cheaply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 36 minutes ago, Commandant said: I don't get it. It makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Everyone wants to trade domi for picks and prospects. I posted this once already but it still applies. Wow what don't people get...... We have Danault, Domi, Kotkaniemi, Suzuki and poehling that are centers. If Bergevin is looking for a top LD and the team he's talking to needs a center to get the deal done , out of the 5 Domi would probably be the most likely to be trade. Thats what this discussion is about. My god whys that so hard to understand. Shit you bring up someone's name and all of a sudden the stat police come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 of the centres can play wing and then you have a player who shifts back to the middle if another centre is hurt. There is no rule that you can only have 4 centres on the roster This has already been said by multiple posters but you keep ignoring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: A younger version of Patches, never close to 30g seasons. More like... Cammalleri ?! Desharnais ?! A. Kotsistin?! You are really comparing Domi to these guys or am I missing something here? I would take Domi over any of those guys without even thinking about it. Not even close!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: You are really comparing Domi to these guys or am I missing something here? I would take Domi over any of those guys without even thinking about it. Not even close!! Just saying that looking back at 24 year old Desharnais was just getting started, Kostitsyn too. Domi seems to be farther ahead at 24 than those two, close to where Pacioretty was at 24. If we keep Domi at center, which center goes to Laval ? If we trade Domi, what return is he going to fetch? I wish I could be as certain as Comandant about Domi's value to the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Commandant said: 1 of the centres can play wing and then you have a player who shifts back to the middle if another centre is hurt. There is no rule that you can only have 4 centres on the roster This has already been said by multiple posters but you keep ignoring it. No because my point is if Bergevin is looking to trade for a top D and the team he's talking to needs and ask for Domi, don't you think he would agree to it since we're strong at center. Or is he going to say oh no forget it i am putting my centers at wing. Doesn't make sense. THAT's THE POINT, if there's a player he's trying to trade for and the only way to get him is to give up Domi he will do it. Oh and why don't you ask Edmonton how while your way of thinking works. They've been doing that the last what 8 years with the all their forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: Just saying that looking back at 24 year old Desharnais was just getting started, Kostitsyn too. Domi seems to be farther ahead at 24 than those two, close to where Pacioretty was at 24. If we keep Domi at center, which center goes to Laval ? If we trade Domi, what return is he going to fetch? I wish I could be as certain as Comandant about Domi's value to the Habs. No one has to go to laval. Centres can play wing. Especially if one guy is a right hand shot and one is a left shot as they can take the faceoffs depending on which side of the ice it is. Two centres on a line will also increase faceoff percentage even if they are the same hand as the guy who takes the draw can cheat more without fear of being kicked out cause the other guy goes in. When canada makes an olympic team they take like 9 or 10 centres amongst their forwards. The world junior team is the sme... there is way more than just 4 natural centres taken. Having extra centres is not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said: No because my point is if Bergevin is looking to trade for a top D and the team he's talking to needs and ask for Domi, don't you think he would agree to it since we're strong at center. Or is he going to say oh no forget it i am putting my centers at wing. Doesn't make sense. THAT's THE POINT, if there's a player he's trying to trade for and the only way to get him is to give up Domi he will do it. Oh and why don't you ask Edmonton how while your way of thinking works. They've been doing that the last what 8 years with the all their forwards. If someone offers an overpayment... anyone on the team is tradeable... this isnt even a debate. If columbus wants to give zach werenski for domi of course we do it. The only thing im saying is you dont need to trade then just to trade them. If you arent getting great value in a young nhl proven star defender, then there is no reason to jettison a player like domi. We don't need to move him just to move him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Commandant said: If someone offers an overpayment... anyone on the team is tradeable... this isnt even a debate. If columbus wants to give zach werenski for domi of course we do it. The only thing im saying is you dont need to trade then just to trade them. If you arent getting great value in a young nhl proven star defender, then there is no reason to jettison a player like domi. We don't need to move him just to move him. I agree you don't trade them just to trade them. You trade them to fill holes on the team. I am not going to over look a trade opportunity to trade from strength to fill a weakness. This was my whole argument from the get go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Commandant said: No one has to go to laval. Centres can play wing. Especially if one guy is a right hand shot and one is a left shot as they can take the faceoffs depending on which side of the ice it is. Two centres on a line will also increase faceoff percentage even if they are the same hand as the guy who takes the draw can cheat more without fear of being kicked out cause the other guy goes in. When canada makes an olympic team they take like 9 or 10 centres amongst their forwards. The world junior team is the sme... there is way more than just 4 natural centres taken. Having extra centres is not a problem. 1) the Habs have starved for centres for decades 2) they drafted a bunch to develop strength at center 3) three young centres are up, two are not playing at center 4) if we do not trade Domi but play him where he is most effective: his do we make sure we develop strength at center: we send one or two of the center prospects to Laval ! Thisnis not the world juniors or the AHL all star, it’s a development decision on the future of the franchise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: 1) the Habs have starved for centres for decades 2) they drafted a bunch to develop strength at center 3) three young centres are up, two are not playing at center 4) if we do not trade Domi but play him where he is most effective: his do we make sure we develop strength at center: we send one or two of the center prospects to Laval ! Thisnis not the world juniors or the AHL all star, it’s a development decision on the future of the franchise Vincent Damphousse played NHL wing for years, it didn't hurt him. Same with Mark Messier Same with Steven Stamkos Same with Evgeni Malkin Same with that Sebastian Aho guy we tried to offer sheet last year too. Heck one of our team's assistant coaches, Kirk Muller, did it too. There are many more in NHL history. With the way Julien (and most NHL coaches) juggle lines, and with the way injuries happen, I also don't expect a guy like Suzuki to play 82 games at wing, even if he starts there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 12 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: I agree you don't trade them just to trade them. You trade them to fill holes on the team. I am not going to over look a trade opportunity to trade from strength to fill a weakness. This was my whole argument from the get go. Yes, if you can fill a big hole by trading Domi then you have to consider it. In my opinion Domi's trade value is high because of his age, ability and passion for the game. Trading Petry would create a hole in the short term but he is also winding down on the last quarter of his career, depends what you could get. He would definitely be a valuable piece for a contender but is it worth giving him up for a late 1st round pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 50 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Yes, if you can fill a big hole by trading Domi then you have to consider it. In my opinion Domi's trade value is high because of his age, ability and passion for the game. Trading Petry would create a hole in the short term but he is also winding down on the last quarter of his career, depends what you could get. He would definitely be a valuable piece for a contender but is it worth giving him up for a late 1st round pick? Not if we're planning on being a playoff team next year. Trading Petry would hurt our playoff chances because it would weaken us even more on D if it was just for a 1st round pick. But if you trade him for lets say a younger NHL ready D and a 2nd round pick , Then I would looking into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I'd trade Petry for as many young assets as I could get. Then I'd flip those assets and maybe a little more to Minnesota for Mathew Dumba, replacing him with a younger puck moving top-4 RHD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Commandant said: I'd trade Petry for as many young assets as I could get. Then I'd flip those assets and maybe a little more to Minnesota for Mathew Dumba, replacing him with a younger puck moving top-4 RHD. Always loved Dumba as a player, but isn't Minnesota in the same boat as us ? They're either resetting or rebuilding, but don't want to trade their core group of guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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