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31 minutes ago, DON said:

You do know Domi had a 70+pt season, Anderson it appears 47 is his max so far, with all of 1g last season how is that equal?

 

I don't know anything about Anderson either. But apart from last season's abortion (injuries?) he's a big body, 20-goal forward whose points totals are in the same region as Armia's. That's why I brought up the Armia parallel. What I was saying is that "Domi for Armia" would be a fair trade. Whether or not Anderson is as good as Armia is a whole other question.

You can talk about Domi's 70-point season, but you can also talk about the fact that he has played himself out of two NHL cities at age 25, is a one-dimensional player, carries baggage as a non-team-player, and has lost his spot on the Habs to an unproven sophomore who had all of eight point to his credit last season. Other GMs aren't idiots. We're not getting a star back for Domi in a straight one-for-one trade.

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11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I don't know anything about Anderson either. But apart from last season's abortion (injuries?) he's a big body, 20-goal forward whose points totals are in the same region as Armia's. That's why I brought up the Armia parallel. What I was saying is that "Domi for Armia" would be a fair trade. Whether or not Anderson is as good as Armia is a whole other question.

You can talk about Domi's 70-point season, but you can also talk about the fact that he has played himself out of two NHL cities at age 25, is a one-dimensional player, carries baggage as a non-team-player, and has lost his spot on the Habs to an unproven sophomore who had all of eight point to his credit last season. Other GMs aren't idiots. We're not getting a star back for Domi in a straight one-for-one trade.

I agree with the part of not getting a star player in a one for one with domi. I think a lot of us feel that way which is why you package him with a 1st overall pick and a prospect.  Then you would get that star player, not an elite player but a star player. 

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

What I was saying is that "Domi for Armia" would be a fair trade. I don't think so, Domi is better player.

 

Other GMs aren't idiots. We're not getting a star back for Domi in a straight one-for-one trade. Never said we would, but Domi + youngster + pick should get an upgrade on top six wing.

 

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2 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

I agree with the part of not getting a star player in a one for one with domi. I think a lot of us feel that way which is why you package him with a 1st overall pick and a prospect.  Then you would get that star player, not an elite player but a star player. 

What he said.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

What he said.

 

I don't doubt that Domi + 16th overall pick + prospect might bring back an impact W. A lot would probably depend on the prospect, though.

 

The question of what Domi is worth, straight up with no extra incentives, is interesting. I see a 50-point C with zero defensive game and lousy faceoff % and I figure a rock-solid, physical 3rd line W like Armia is a reasonable return. What would you expect to get back, one for one?

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The question of what Domi is worth, straight up with no extra incentives, is interesting. I see a 50-point C with zero defensive game and lousy faceoff % and I figure a rock-solid, physical 3rd line W like Armia is a reasonable return. What would you expect to get back, one for one?

Domi 251pts in 375gm, 72pt season under his belt.

Armia 111pts in 295gms, not a 70pt season yet.

 

Who would be an equal trade for Domi, i dont know? We may see tomorrow?

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16 minutes ago, DON said:

Domi 251pts in 375gm, 72pt season under his belt.

Armia 111pts in 295gms, not a 70pt season yet.

 

Who would be an equal trade for Domi, i dont know? We may see tomorrow?

Depends on what other teams see Domi as. Can he be a 2nd line center in this league? Our a top 6 winger in this league? If it's a 2nd line center I think his vaule is high. If it's a winger his vaule is lower.

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I don't doubt that Domi + 16th overall pick + prospect might bring back an impact W. A lot would probably depend on the prospect, though.

 

The question of what Domi is worth, straight up with no extra incentives, is interesting. I see a 50-point C with zero defensive game and lousy faceoff % and I figure a rock-solid, physical 3rd line W like Armia is a reasonable return. What would you expect to get back, one for one?

Not really if theirs a team looking to cut payroll and trade their top players then Domi+16th overall pick and a prospect would look pretty good to that team.  Don't think Arizona would like Domi back would they 🤔 I mean how about 

To Arizona 

Domi /  CHIAROT / 16th overall pick 

 

To habs

OEL + Phil 

 

Arizona has no first round picks so getting one would be a plus. Plus it clears cap space  for them which they're looking to do.  But again no way they take Domi back. 

 

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Anderson really struggled last season and wants a long term deal at big money.  I get David Clarkson vibes where he had a good year once and hes big and strong so he gets overrated.

 

I think hes fine as a third liner but if you think hes a difference maker, youll get burned.

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7 hours ago, Commandant said:

Anderson really struggled last season and wants a long term deal at big money.  I get David Clarkson vibes where he had a good year once and hes big and strong so he gets overrated.

 

I think hes fine as a third liner but if you think hes a difference maker, youll get burned.


Excellent summary/point. Hit the nail on the head.

 

Having seen quite a few jackets games, Mostly from 2015-18/19, he is impressive and I like his style (when he was healthy) but indeed not a stable top 6 guy, can fill in there when needed but wouldn’t want to depend on it entering a season.

on third line he can be pretty dominant but is sporadic in top 6.  And I feel we already have plenty of these players as a whole and on the right side I’d say that is Armia.
Seems everyone knows Habs are short a top 6 RW.
 

Think a 1A/1B approach is interesting if they get that missing piece, chase the cup window.

something like:

1A)Tuna-Danault-Gally (proven Commodity)

1B)Drouin-Suzuki-Missing top 6 RW

3)Lehks-KK-Armia (reunite the Finns)

4)Poehling/Weal-Evans/Poehling-Byron (too lazy to search who plays which side, but decent 4th line to play 12 min/game, ease Poehling into C role, see what he’s got)

 

So IMO: Domi has to go, ideally packaged to get back a top 6 RW...
Imagine Hall (Dreaming, I know), Toffoli or Dadonov (Laine obv omg) on that 1B line with Suzuki and Drouin? I think that lineup can contend given the (IMO) improvements on the back end as of now.
Obv a lot easier said than done, but have to think Domi has some appeal, and we have a lot of mid level d prospects (thinking Fleury, Brook, Mete), throw in that #16 and go balls deep for a season, I may be totally over valuing our offer since 16th pick doesn’t seem to be getting traction as per Bergy. My risk-rich morning Jumble of thoughts haha.

 

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9 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Not really if theirs a team looking to cut payroll and trade their top players then Domi+16th overall pick and a prospect would look pretty good to that team.  Don't think Arizona would like Domi back would they 🤔 I mean how about 

To Arizona 

Domi /  CHIAROT / 16th overall pick 

 

To habs

OEL + Phil 

 

Arizona has no first round picks so getting one would be a plus. Plus it clears cap space  for them which they're looking to do.  But again no way they take Domi back. 

 

 

New management in Arizona so maybe they would take Domi back ... but I'd be surprised ... 

 

If they would ... in your suggestion I would swap out Chiarot for Alzner, #56 and #85 ... works better for Montreal's cap ... Habs do not need all their picks (can only ever have 50 contracts) ... Yotes ***NEED*** picks ... Yotes don't care about cap hit ... Alzner is actually $500K cheaper in real $$$ over two seasons than Chiarot ... if necessary I would switch #56 for Mete ... that leaves Chiarot or Kulak available in another trade

 

 

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7 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

New management in Arizona so maybe they would take Domi back ... but I'd be surprised ... 

 

If they would ... in your suggestion I would swap out Chiarot for Alzner, #56 and #85 ... works better for Montreal's cap ... Habs do not need all their picks (can only ever have 50 contracts) ... Yotes ***NEED*** picks ... Yotes don't care about cap hit ... Alzner is actually $500K cheaper in real $$$ over two seasons than Chiarot ... if necessary I would switch #56 for Mete ... that leaves Chiarot or Kulak available in another trade

 

 

I added chiarot because if it did go down OEL is a LD and their would be no room for chiarot on the left side 

OEL

Romanov 

Edmundson 

I think you can trade Alzner to a team like Ottawa so they can get to cap floor. Then with Alzner and chiarot gone cap space equals up for them with this trade. 

 

But man would our D core look sick.

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14 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I added chiarot because if it did go down OEL is a LD and their would be no room for chiarot on the left side 

OEL

Romanov 

Edmundson 

I think you can trade Alzner to a team like Ottawa so they can get to cap floor. Then with Alzner and chiarot gone cap space equals up for them with this trade. 

 

But man would our D core look sick.

Understand ... my thought is that Alzner brings no value in any deal while Chiarot would ... even if it is 2021 or 2022 picks ... Ottawa has 5 of their 19/20 defence under contract and several young defencemen waiting for an opportunity ... Sens need to add about $21 million to get to the floor but also need to add 12-13 players (mostly at forward) ... don't know that Ottawa needs a "dead" contract like Karl ... hence my suggested switch ... Chiarot (or Kulak) could be paired with Domi (plus whatever) in the "top 6 wing" trade.

 

Of course all moot unless OEL adds Montreal to the list he has given the Yotes.

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13 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Understand ... my thought is that Alzner brings no value in any deal while Chiarot would ... even if it is 2021 or 2022 picks ... Ottawa has 5 of their 19/20 defence under contract and several young defencemen waiting for an opportunity ... Sens need to add about $21 million to get to the floor but also need to add 12-13 players (mostly at forward) ... don't know that Ottawa needs a "dead" contract like Karl ... hence my suggested switch ... Chiarot (or Kulak) could be paired with Domi (plus whatever) in the "top 6 wing" trade.

 

Of course all moot unless OEL adds Montreal to the list he has given the Yotes.

Yeah fun to have a discussion.

 

Man this is my favorite time of year, more so than trade deadline.

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1 minute ago, Habsfan89 said:

Yeah fun to have a discussion.

 

Man this is my favorite time of year, more so than trade deadline.

Agreed ... unlike Trade Deadline all the teams are are potential buyers and sellers

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11 hours ago, DON said:

Domi 251pts in 375gm, 72pt season under his belt.

Armia 111pts in 295gms, not a 70pt season yet.

 

That's a bit of a skewed picture given the role Armia was assigned in Winnipeg. There was not much difference in their scoring rate in the past season. And Armia's defensive capabilities have some real value, too.

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7 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

 There was not much difference in their scoring rate in the past season. 

Was career year for Armia and a down year for Domi.

Wanna guess who scores more in 20-21, or over the next 10 years? I'll (and vast majority) take Domi and it wont even be close.

Just not comparable players, was my main point.

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6 minutes ago, DON said:

Was career year for Armia and a down year for Domi.

Wanna guess who scores more in 20-21, or over the next 10 years? I'll (and vast majority) take Domi and it wont even be close.

Just not comparable players, was my main point.

 

I agree that Domi has somewhat more goal scoring potential ... but don't see the spread as "won't even be close" ... since joining Montreal the per 82 games goal scoring rate is Domi 24.1 and Armia 20.6 ... I expect those to be fair annual expectations going forward ... both could do more and might have off seasons ... but don't think either will regularly exceed those expectations by much

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14 minutes ago, DON said:

Was career year for Armia and a down year for Domi.

Wanna guess who scores more in 20-21, or over the next 10 years? I'll (and vast majority) take Domi and it wont even be close.

Just not comparable players, was my main point.

 

I'm not claiming Armia will outscore Domi next season, just that the difference isn't as big as the career numbers would indicate. And that Armia brings more to the table than just scoring.

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Domi's career points totals:

 

52

38

45

72

44

 

DON is trying to make him out to be a 70-point C because of one outlier season. In fact he is clearly in the 45-50-point range. That is, he is OK second-tier offence coupled with zero defensive acumen and poor faceoff %.

 

The parallel with David Desharnais is not so far off. Domi is chippier and quicker, better overall, but in the same broad category as DD IMHO: a so-so 2nd-line C at best.

 

Now, Armia is nevertheless a significantly less productive player offensively. But while Domi is a question mark - is he a serviceable if limited #2C, or is he really a tweener, not good enough to be a top-6 C on a good team, and comes with concerns about a me-first attitude? - Armia is a clear-cut, prototypical #3 W with excellent size and physicality, solid defensive game, who sometimes can play on the second line. That's why I say he's a reasonable return. He brings different attributes but is probably comparable in overall contribution to team success.

 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Domi's career points totals:

52

38

45

72

44

54.88pts/82gms is what he is and 55pts isn't a big reach for him every year...it would be for Armia (30.8pts/82gms)

 

Like I said, it is simply a bad comparison and 2 totally different players and Domi is more valuable period. younger, healthier (so far) and almost 2x the points/yr.

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Tampa saying Stamkos is available.  What about KK + the 16th for Stamkos?  he’s had injury problems and they need to clear cap space so that should lower his value some and habs should be willing to part with a center for an upgrade.

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12 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

Tampa saying Stamkos is available.  What about KK + the 16th for Stamkos?  he’s had injury problems and they need to clear cap space so that should lower his value some and habs should be willing to part with a center for an upgrade.

OMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. An injury prone 30 year old for KK and the 16th? No, Non, ten thousand times NO 

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50 minutes ago, DON said:

Like I said, it is simply a bad comparison and 2 totally different players and Domi is more valuable period. younger, healthier (so far) and almost 2x the points/yr.

 

Only two years younger. With attitude issues. And no defensive attributes.

 

I think we should just agree to disagree on their relative values.

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Domi > DD

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