Game Thread: Flyers vs Habs, Feb. 13, 7 PM

[KoZed]

This is what pissed me off most season with the Habs. This is a character game. You've lost the night before against a team that has fun being in your face, you're home. A gutsy, character, competitive team would have come out roaring and have the Flyers spend the whole night with their faces either in the boards or looking up at the Bell Centre ceiling. Instead they were flat.

Flat.

4 letters that describe this Habs edition. F-L-A-T. They play scared.

This late into the season, I'm not sure it can be fixed. Well, it could be fixed, but it would require a change of staff because they're part of the problem. Thing is, Gainey fired Carbo and hired Martin had a high price. We're still paying Carbo a good deal and paying even more for a coach who failed to make this team play with any structure. Last year we were losing because of a sad lack of effort, ie. heart. This year we're losing because of a sad lack of execution, ie. focus.

All in all, the problem remains the same as last year. Lack of leadership, grit, intimidation, balls.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

You guys have been hard on the club. I don't share your feeling. With so many guys out, let's face it: it had to happen.

We're not done yet. After the Olympics, we should have Markov, AK46, Pouliot and Cam back pretty soon. We won't be an easy prey. And we also will have Subban in the lineup. It is pure stupidity to keep him in Hamilton. He already is the best defenseman after Markov and Hamrlik. The solution is pure and simple: trade Mara for a draft pick or place him on the waivers.

We need Subban with the big club.

oh so very right... were not done by a long shot... to be holding on to a playoff spot with 1/2 the goals we scored this season out of the lineup id commendable to say the least

i dont think this team is so negative as people suggest.. that was last year and this year is different. markov, gio, gomez, camm, gill, moen, gorges etc are hardly bad guys to be around in the dressing room. subban as ive said for the upteenth time is to good for the ahl right now. all the guys saying he needs to go back down NEED to watch a bulldog game to see how badly he rips everybody. it's like playing junior in highschool when your of age to play senior only because its easier.

[JCPetit]

oh so very right... were not done by a long shot... to be holding on to a playoff spot with 1/2 the goals we scored this season out of the lineup id commendable to say the least

i dont think this team is so negative as people suggest.. that was last year and this year is different. markov, gio, gomez, camm, gill, moen, gorges etc are hardly bad guys to be around in the dressing room. subban as ive said for the upteenth time is to good for the ahl right now. all the guys saying he needs to go back down NEED to watch a bulldog game to see how badly he rips everybody. it's like playing junior in highschool when your of age to play senior only because its easier.

Right on. It's so obvious. If management sends him back to Hamilton they will just show to me that they don't know their job. Subban is ready for the next step. What do we expect from him? To become a star in the AHL? He is already one!

Edited February 14, 2010 by JCPetit

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I can't believe I left Lake Louise early so I could get home for game time. What a turkey of a game. Love Subban though. Man this kid just oozes confidence. Having said that, I hope they send him back to Hamilton so he won't get infected by the rest of these turkeys.

I also fear what Martin may turn him into. God, I hope next year they SUbban brings his coach in Hamilton with him!!

Yeah, the kid oozes talent and confidence, but so did Price when he came up. The same fans that are worshipping his every dump-out will be stripping the skin from his flesh and eating it the minute he begins to struggle and defensive blunders start to outweighing his effective rushes. This is why I agree with you - he should be sent back to the minors to marinade further as soon as circumstances allow. He should also be bivouaced with a veteran, a la Lemieux/Crosby, when he does come back up. I would hope the Habs have learned by now that you MUST shelter kids from the insanity of Montreal, or it'll eat them like a shrew does its babies.

Bleak as our playoff hopes now seem (thanks, Ottawa - our only hope now is a total Boston meltdown) there is nothing wrong with the future of this team in principle. We have a quality nucleus for something like the next 3-5 seasons. Supplement that with proper development of young bloods like Pouliot, Subban and Pacioretty, and further maturation of Halak or Price, and IF the cap issues can be adroitly managed, I see no reason why we can't take a jump. But of course Gauthier has to be very cool-headed and skilled to make that happen. Is he? The Moore deal suggests not, but time will tell.

PS: anyone drawing conclusions about this team on the basis of this game should give their heads a shake. We're missing three of our top-6 forwards (Pouliot, A. Kostitysn, and Cammy) and our most valuable player (Markov). They hung in there against Washington and for a near-comeback last night, but the result is no surprise.

Edited February 14, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Habsy]

Right on. It's so obvious. If management sends him back to Hamilton they will just show to me that they don't know their job. Subban is ready for the next step. What do we expect from him? To become a star in the AHL? He is already one!

You're everywhere, banging away at the Subban topic. If he's sent down, it has zero to do with management knowing there job. It's how to build a winning team. Defence is the biggest jump, from AHL to NHL. Seems alot of people on this site agree, as does management, because I'm confident he'll be sent down.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I think this last 2 games should be a clear message to management that this team should start being built for the future. We are obviously not going to make the playoffs, and even if they did squeak in lets be honest, we would see a replay of last year. Time to start getting rid of some of the aging veterans.

This is the perfect time to give up a pick for a rental grinder player. Oh wait...

[Easy Ryder]

Hamrlik had no more fuel in the tank, zilch, zero,nada.

Would it be a reason to fire bullets on him ? No, he has been over used

all season long and still is.

These two weeks will be a relief for the fans.

We will have good hockey to watch for a change + Gauthier cannot mess the team more

than it is.

Go Canada.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

You're everywhere, banging away at the Subban topic. If he's sent down, it has zero to do with management knowing there job. It's how to build a winning team. Defence is the biggest jump, from AHL to NHL. Seems alot of people on this site agree, as does management, because I'm confident he'll be sent down.

why isnt that u steadily use the "seems all of us agree" or "alot of us" or something to that degree to drive your points across???

No, not all of us agree... even carbo said during the game at some point you got take the leash off this kid....

A) we want to fix the cap... here's a start... actually/ finally promote a kid that's NHL ready... does it make sense to call up weber when PK is leaps and bounds better...

b) anybody comparing price (a goalie) to a player is a fool.. price's position is the hardest in hockey where every mistake is magnified... his mistakes cost us games....true hockey guys understand this & need only look to the development of M.A fleury for the reassurrances they need to sleep at night and maybe WE should stop anointing him the next brodeur, roy and dryden!!.

c) how can a scoring winger like pacioretty succeed when he's given like 10 games on our top 2 lines. he played with checkers and got checking results... put him on the top line for 40 games and then we will judge. that's why he's back in the AHL were he belongs cause he's not ripping it there either.. lats is slow, he's always been slow that wont change, but in minny he's able to make mistakes playing with mikko and havlat something we were to impatient to do with saku and co.!!

as for PK Subban habsy, i know for sure you probably have yet to take in a bulldog game. i've seen over 20 this season alone. and in each 1 it was unfair that PK subban was on the ice!! he skates circles around everyone..literally, every shift he'll take the puck from his own end and go coast to coast creating a chance. he's obviously learning the game still but his talent pool is to high for the AHL. those guys in the AHL are not pushing him hard enough. he doesnt have to work hard in the game becuse he's better then everyone. is that a good enviroment for a blossoming kid??? no it surely isnt!

if it was up to me i'd have him battling the prongers and richards of this league, he'll learn more as long as the habs show faith and give time on the PP and have him on our top 2 pairings

!

i didnt know your tight with management cause from the game i noticed that with marky out they were giving him more time.. giving him PP duties etc... i'm perplexed at how you see management sending him down... for all we know gauthier believes he's ready and pk 's finishing the season with us and were moving our dead weight defenders!!!

[jackp]

I want to give the habs a break, they have sooo many injuries, but they're lacking heart whenever they play bigger teams.

Lacking heart?!!! After O'Byrne got kayoed, we then learned that we have a basically gutless team (except for some of the smaller guys like Gionta).

Goodbye Bob Gainey and good riddance. 6 years and look at what we have!!! And then he bails, like a rat jumping from a sinking ship. He messed the bed and now he won't even lie in it.

This is the worse shape the team's be in since the Houle days. Identify *one* "must win" game that they've won this year? Oh, they're very good at ambushing good teams who don't expect much of a fight, but they don't win big games. I actually feel sorry for the Molsons. Lousy team, lousy coach, no cap room... geez, how can it get worse?!!

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

You're everywhere, banging away at the Subban topic. If he's sent down, it has zero to do with management knowing there job. It's how to build a winning team. Defence is the biggest jump, from AHL to NHL. Seems alot of people on this site agree, as does management, because I'm confident he'll be sent down.

how you build a winning team is by doing exactly this! just look at buffalo for example. myers has worked out great. buffalo is virtually the same non playoff team as last season. only they have a young horse on there D now. in LA most analyst's believe that a 20yr old named doughty has transformed that hockey team along with steady goaltending from quick!

subban should be given the 4th spot on this team for the rest of the year good or bad and we should move who we have to to make that work... we will be a better team now and in the future for it! plus our cap will go down!

[Dalhabs]

Lacking heart?!!! After O'Byrne got kayoed, we then learned that we have a basically gutless team (except for some of the smaller guys like Gionta).

Goodbye Bob Gainey and good riddance. 6 years and look at what we have!!! And then he bails, like a rat jumping from a sinking ship. He messed the bed and now he won't even lie in it.

This is the worse shape the team's be in since the Houle days. Identify *one* "must win" game that they've won this year? Oh, they're very good at ambushing good teams who don't expect much of a fight, but they don't win big games. I actually feel sorry for the Molsons. Lousy team, lousy coach, no cap room... geez, how can it get worse?!!

I agree about the timing of his decision to leave. I mean COMON, why couldnt he just have resigned after the sweep handed to us by the Bruins and let someone totally new take over for the off season. Instead he did the most senceless trade our team has done since Patrick Roy and sign Spacek to a capeating deal as well. Sure we have decent top two lines right now and a couple of decent Dmen but the depth we once had is totally gone because we cant sign any veteran 3-4th liners and therefore play our prospects on nondeveloping positions on the team playing 5-10 minutes / game.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Dalhabs

[Habsy]

why isnt that u steadily use the "seems all of us agree" or "alot of us" or something to that degree to drive your points across???

No, not all of us agree... even carbo said during the game at some point you got take the leash off this kid....

A) we want to fix the cap... here's a start... actually/ finally promote a kid that's NHL ready... does it make sense to call up weber when PK is leaps and bounds better...

b) anybody comparing price (a goalie) to a player is a fool.. price's position is the hardest in hockey where every mistake is magnified... his mistakes cost us games....true hockey guys understand this & need only look to the development of M.A fleury for the reassurrances they need to sleep at night and maybe WE should stop anointing him the next brodeur, roy and dryden!!.

c) how can a scoring winger like pacioretty succeed when he's given like 10 games on our top 2 lines. he played with checkers and got checking results... put him on the top line for 40 games and then we will judge. that's why he's back in the AHL were he belongs cause he's not ripping it there either.. lats is slow, he's always been slow that wont change, but in minny he's able to make mistakes playing with mikko and havlat something we were to impatient to do with saku and co.!!

as for PK Subban habsy, i know for sure you probably have yet to take in a bulldog game. i've seen over 20 this season alone. and in each 1 it was unfair that PK subban was on the ice!! he skates circles around everyone..literally, every shift he'll take the puck from his own end and go coast to coast creating a chance. he's obviously learning the game still but his talent pool is to high for the AHL. those guys in the AHL are not pushing him hard enough. he doesnt have to work hard in the game becuse he's better then everyone. is that a good enviroment for a blossoming kid??? no it surely isnt!

if it was up to me i'd have him battling the prongers and richards of this league, he'll learn more as long as the habs show faith and give time on the PP and have him on our top 2 pairings

!

i didnt know your tight with management cause from the game i noticed that with marky out they were giving him more time.. giving him PP duties etc... i'm perplexed at how you see management sending him down... for all we know gauthier believes he's ready and pk 's finishing the season with us and were moving our dead weight defenders!!!

Tight with management? You've taken this a little too serious my friend. You have no clue, and neither do I. I'm not going to even attempt to drive my point home. It's been done countless time on this site. Buffalo is not Montreal. I'm born here, raised here. Our fans are nuts. They embarrass me at times. I love Subban as a prospect, I'm just concerned about his development. We shall see. If he stay's great, if he get's sent down great. Hope that's ok with you. No, I don't vacation in hamilton, haven't seen any of there games. And he was just sent down. Maybe just for the olympic break. Edited February 14, 2010 by Habsy

[BCHabnut]

You guys are getting a little excited. This team has been more injured than last year. I think all in all Febuary was a tough month and I think the team did OK considering their roster. They made it achieveable to make the playoffs when Cammie, Pouliot, and Kostitsyn get back. That's a lot of our scoring. I was hoping they would split the home at home, but I remember looking at Febuary before it happened thinking, "Wow, what a tough month. Canucks, Boston twice, Flyers twice, Washington, Pittsburgh." I still don't really like the over all team. I have seen too many games against strong defence stymied because our talented forwards are just too small. But I think they have done well considering injuries. No team succeeds when they have injuries like we have. We went from 1st to 8th in one year. A big part of that was injuries. Boston is going through the same thing. The team was healthy last year, and the young guns were confortable in their roles. This year they are being asked to do more and can't get it done.

As for PK, I was very impressed by his heart and confidence. However, I saw someone a little scarey when he has the puck in our zone. Talented forwards will pick up on his confidence to buzz the front of his own net when he's under pressure and they will own him. It was nice to see that JM did not bench him after these high risk plays. He actually gave him more ice time. I personally would like to see him go back to Hamilton and finish the season. Guy Boucher sounds like a very smart man and I would like him to go for a Calder cup run.

[Peter Puck]

as for PK Subban habsy, i know for sure you probably have yet to take in a bulldog game. i've seen over 20 this season alone. and in each 1 it was unfair that PK subban was on the ice!! he skates circles around everyone..literally, every shift he'll take the puck from his own end and go coast to coast creating a chance. he's obviously learning the game still but his talent pool is to high for the AHL. those guys in the AHL are not pushing him hard enough. he doesnt have to work hard in the game becuse he's better then everyone. is that a good enviroment for a blossoming kid??? no it surely isnt!

Classic.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Peter Puck

[ForumGhost]

Lacking heart?!!! After O'Byrne got kayoed, we then learned that we have a basically gutless team (except for some of the smaller guys like Gionta).

Goodbye Bob Gainey and good riddance. 6 years and look at what we have!!! And then he bails, like a rat jumping from a sinking ship. He messed the bed and now he won't even lie in it.

This is the worse shape the team's be in since the Houle days. Identify *one* "must win" game that they've won this year? Oh, they're very good at ambushing good teams who don't expect much of a fight, but they don't win big games. I actually feel sorry for the Molsons. Lousy team, lousy coach, no cap room... geez, how can it get worse?!!

Wow, what a drama queen.

[lazy26]

Hm. Lose-lose for you. Habs play bad and lose and you're in a bad mood, she gets in a bad mood, and no nookie. They win and you both get drunk, live it up, and pass out: no nookie. May I suggest going to the casino instead?

The casino would guarantee a bad night, I have no luck. Good time nonetheless. It was so strange to be in MTL and not freezing to death or walking through 5 feet of snow.

[Chris]

Wow that was an impressive set of games against the Flyers. Apparantly 1 team thought the Olympic break started early.

I can't beleive O'Byrne is such a pu###. Good grief man you out weigh the guy by 60 pounds, at least get a draw.

This team is still gutless, they had 2 games this year where they stood up for themselves, that's emabarrassing.

Time to move some players, they have to go like 15-5 down the stretch and i don't see it happening.

[Colin]

Time to move some players, they have to go like 15-5 down the stretch and i don't see it happening.

Can you explain that? We're neck and neck with every other team fighting it out.

[Chris]

Sure, the other team all have games in hand and 1 more point for the playoffs. I beleive the habs are currently 9th.

if other teams go 13-10 the habs need 14 wins.

[bar]

Wow that was an impressive set of games against the Flyers. Apparantly 1 team thought the Olympic break started early.

I can't beleive O'Byrne is such a pu###. Good grief man you out weigh the guy by 60 pounds, at least get a draw.

This team is still gutless, they had 2 games this year where they stood up for themselves, that's emabarrassing.

Time to move some players, they have to go like 15-5 down the stretch and i don't see it happening.

You're picking on the only guy (besides Moen) who will fight, and calling him out? That's a bit classless, but anyway, everyone is missing the point...look who was out of the line up. 3 top 6 forwards, top 1 D man. Yes, they didn't show up, but they were playing with a 1/2 deck to begin with, it's not a worry to me. After the break, get some players back and reload. If they make the playoffs, great, I enjoy playoff hockey, hot goalie..anything can happen, they play great against better teams. They miss the playoffs, they can try to dump some dead weight, reload for next year.

I can't be frustrated with this team this season, I don't want to make excuses, but really..they are showing the results of a team that has had drastic injuries.

Edited February 16, 2010 by bar

[Chris]

I am not piling on for losses, i thought they didn't show much effort. I know people like O'Byrne, i don't. I agree it was nice he dropped them but he was scared and got dropped by someone half his size. That turns things the other way.

Also NO habs player did anything to Bette (i beleive) who boarded habs 2 times in 2 games and they just skated away with there tail between there legs. Hamrlik took a dumb roughing penalty, if your going to do something, do something.

[bar]

I am not piling on for losses, i thought they didn't show much effort. I know people like O'Byrne, i don't. I agree it was nice he dropped them but he was scared and got dropped by someone half his size. That turns things the other way.

Also NO habs player did anything to Bette (i beleive) who boarded habs 2 times in 2 games and they just skated away with there tail between there legs. Hamrlik took a dumb roughing penalty, if your going to do something, do something.

Spacey actually went after him during a scrum. The team is not made up of people like that. The potential grinders are not around. The grinders came up from the minors played two decent games and were sent back down, blame that on the coach. Lapierre is no slouch, he wasn't that much smaller than Obyrne, dunno what you were watching.

You first said, do something, then on the other hand you blame Hamrlik for a dumb roughing penalty for going after him, you're kind of tossing out two different views.