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The pain of being a Habs fan (whine alert!)


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Speaking strictly of this new century - not the second half of the 20th century, when we Habs fans were the most blessed species of sports fan on the face of the earth - we've had, I would say, three splendid moments:

1. Koivu's triumph over cancer, Theo's miracle season, and the subsequent playoff trouncing of the Bruins in 2001-02

2. The fine, stirring upset over the Bruins in the first round in 2003-04

3. The entire regular season of 2007-08, capped by the miraculous 6-5 comeback against the Rangers, surely one of the greatest regular season games in the entire history of the franchise.

So I don't want to seem ungrateful to the hockey gods. All the same, I'm getting pretty fed up with the frequency with which the Habs either lose due to some spectacular incidents of bad luck, or else cataclysmically self-destruct. In other words, it seems ridiculously rare that we get to enjoy the simple scenario of the team staying tolerably healthy and playing more-or-less up to its potential. Consider:

1. After leading playoff scorer Richard Zednik has been destroyed by a clotheslining from Kyle Maclaren (grotesquely yielding a only one-game suspension and effectively compromising Zednik's career), the miracle year of 2001-02 sees the Habs season end in elimination at the hands of the Hurricanes. In the pivotal Game 4, at a key moment, coach Therrien is issued a bench penalty despite not having been warned by the ref (who later apologizes). The Canes score on the powerplay. Therrien then ends up mismanaging the bench so that we do not have good faceoff men to take the key faceoff. Canes end up winning, habs end up dying. We were overmatched from the start...but come ON.

Verdict: fan-crushing bad luck.

2. 2005-06. Habs jump out to a 2-0 series lead against Carolina. Then Jason Williams just happens to gouge out Saku Koivu's eyeball with a stick (no penalty). Koivu is permanently damaged. Like most teams would do, the Habs collapse without their key offensive player.

Verdict: fan-crushing bad luck.

2. 2006-07. Team melts down and blows a substantial lead vs. Toronto in the last game of the season.

Verdict: fan-crushing team collapse.

3. 2007-08. Team is a powerhouse all season long. Goalie Carey Price totally melts down in the second round of the playoffs. Great.

Verdict: fan-crushing collapse by #1 goalie.

4. 2008-09. Team is universally acclaimed as a sure-fire Cup contender. Floats through the first half but gets solid results. Utterly collapses in the second-half due to a plague of injuries, apathy from impending UFAs and apparent internal divisions. Humiliating sweep by Boston.

Verdict: partly fan-crushing bad luck (injuries), but mostly fan-crushing team collapse.

5. 2009-10? Team is completely reconstructed with a raft of second-tier but legitimate talents, many of which are proven performers and Cup-winners. After a season of succesfully overcoming massive injuries, the team inexplicably goes 3-9 down the stretch and looks disinterested. Fans start to panic: it's all happening again. And well they might, given 1-4 above.

Verdict: too soon to tell, but possible fan-curshing team collapse.

The only stretch drive/playoff round that seems to qualify as 'normal' in all this was the 03-04 playoff in which we upset the Prunes and then lost, fair and square, to the Lightning.

I can't believe all this is the typical fan experience. This has been a bizarre decade of gut-wrenching failures due to unfathomable combinations of misfortune and collapses, punctuated by some stellar shining moments. Is it too much to ask simply that (1) the Habs go out and play up to their potential and (2) the Habs not be devastated by key injuries or bizarre incidents, during stretch drives and playoffs? I mean, come ON.

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This team has been around 7-11 spot every season since the last cup it seems except for maybe a few seasons. We never get a chance to rebuild like some other teams because we never get the bonafide superstar draftpicks. We allways end up with the 2nd liners at best. And the two high picks weve had hasnt ended well... at least not yet. And since we spend all our capmoney on ridiculous contracts to no topline players we never get better. Maybe Gainey was no better than Houle. Houle did bad trades... REALLY bad trades that sent this team to the ground. Gainey's misstakes havent started hurting us yet but his weird contracts that he has "blessed" this team with will start taking its toll this summer. Hamrlik 5.5M/year? Spacek? And of course the trade for Scott "I dont score more points in a year than Koivu but get twice the money" Gomez. We are crippled for at least 3 years Id say. Only other team missmanaged like this would be the Islanders ruled by Mike Milbury. No offence but atm Id rather have the lineup of the leafs. At least their overpayed players are kinda tradeable. Ours are just old and expensive. Lets hope for a fantastic playoff this year where everybody overperformes because I think it will be the last one in a while.

This is the feelings I have about this team at this moment... tomorrow it might be another :D

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This team has been around 7-11 spot every season since the last cup it seems except for maybe a few seasons. We never get a chance to rebuild like some other teams because we never get the bonafide superstar draftpicks. We allways end up with the 2nd liners at best. And the two high picks weve had hasnt ended well... at least not yet. And since we spend all our capmoney on ridiculous contracts to no topline players we never get better. Maybe Gainey was no better than Houle. Houle did bad trades... REALLY bad trades that sent this team to the ground. Gainey's misstakes havent started hurting us yet but his weird contracts that he has "blessed" this team with will start taking its toll this summer. Hamrlik 5.5M/year? Spacek? And of course the trade for Scott "I dont score more points in a year than Koivu but get twice the money" Gomez. We are crippled for at least 3 years Id say. Only other team missmanaged like this would be the Islanders ruled by Mike Milbury. No offence but atm Id rather have the lineup of the leafs. At least their overpayed players are kinda tradeable. Ours are just old and expensive. Lets hope for a fantastic playoff this year where everybody overperformes because I think it will be the last one in a while.

This is the feelings I have about this team at this moment... tomorrow it might be another :D

Well, my point is not so much that we've been mediocre, but that over the last deacade we've had a ridiculous quotient of melodrama - repeated bouts of absurdly back luck, and repeated bouts of absurd self-destruction by players and team. Even the good stuff that's happened (Theo's crazy season, Koivu's recovery, the magic 2008 regular season) has been weirdly atypical. I'm saying that, win or lose, I want some kind of normalcy. Teams that don't cataclysmically implode, top players that don't get massacred at key moments. Is that so much to ask?? :blink:

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Well, my point is not so much that we've been mediocre, but that over the last deacade we've had a ridiculous quotient of melodrama - repeated bouts of absurdly back luck, and repeated bouts of absurd self-destruction by players and team. Even the good stuff that's happened (Theo's crazy season, Koivu's recovery, the magic 2008 regular season) has been weirdly atypical. I'm saying that, win or lose, I want some kind of normalcy. Teams that don't cataclysmically implode, top players that don't get massacred at key moments. Is that so much to ask?? :blink:

I don't look at it as bad luck. I think if you looked around the league you can find these type of stories for every team.

Look at the things that have happened in Vancouver over the last decade.

2002 - Up 2-0 on Detroit and Cloutier blowing a shot from center and watching the Wings win the Cup.

2004 - The Bertuzzi situation followed by losing to the Flames in Game 7 after a miracle goal to tie it, then watching

the same Flames team almost win the Cup. If Bertuzzi had avoided losing his mind, it isn't a longshot to think

they could have won in 2004.

in 2006 going 5-11-3 down the stretch and missing the playoffs by 3 points.

2007 - Luongo thinking the play was over and blowing a goal in OT to be eliminated by the Ducks.

2008 - Winning 1 of their final 8 games and missing the playoffs by 3 points.

2009- 2 minutes away from going up 3-1 on the Hawks last year and then being blown out at home in Game 6.

A Leaf fan can look at these things in the same way. In 2001 Domi elbows Niedermayer and the Devils come back to

win the series. In 2002 they lose Sundin for 3 rounds of the playoffs and almost get to the Stanley Cup Finals anyway.

In 2006 they miss the playoffs by 1 win. In 2007 they watch as Brodeur sits for Clemmensen and the Devils lose to the

Islanders in a shootout, knocking them out of the playoffs.

Outside of the Islanders/Thrashers/Kings/Coyotes etc, every team has their share of heartbreaking bad luck.

It is why when you have a chance you have to go for it, because in the age of parity you never know when you will

get the chance again. The Canes have made the playoffs 4 times in the past 10 years and two times went to the finals and once went to the conference finals.

The Canadiens have had average upper management, and have had average results. With a couple breaks, maybe they

could have had one miracle run that fell short, but this team was never going to win a Stanley Cup.

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3. 2007-08. Team is a powerhouse all season long. Goalie Carey Price totally melts down in the second round of the playoffs. Great.

Verdict: fan-crushing collapse by #1 goalie.

I strongly disagree!! I know I'm totally sold to Carey, so I'm 100% biased... but dammit, get it straight! Biron stole the show and Carey couldn't blank them out. Remember the thing about "we can't win if we don't score?" ;)

The rest is really good though.

Conclusion? we're still haunted by the Forum's ghosts.

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This team has been around 7-11 spot every season since the last cup it seems except for maybe a few seasons. We never get a chance to rebuild like some other teams because we never get the bonafide superstar draftpicks. We allways end up with the 2nd liners at best. And the two high picks weve had hasnt ended well... at least not yet. And since we spend all our capmoney on ridiculous contracts to no topline players we never get better. Maybe Gainey was no better than Houle. Houle did bad trades... REALLY bad trades that sent this team to the ground. Gainey's misstakes havent started hurting us yet but his weird contracts that he has "blessed" this team with will start taking its toll this summer. Hamrlik 5.5M/year? Spacek? And of course the trade for Scott "I dont score more points in a year than Koivu but get twice the money" Gomez. We are crippled for at least 3 years Id say. Only other team missmanaged like this would be the Islanders ruled by Mike Milbury. No offence but atm Id rather have the lineup of the leafs. At least their overpayed players are kinda tradeable. Ours are just old and expensive. Lets hope for a fantastic playoff this year where everybody overperformes because I think it will be the last one in a while.

This is the feelings I have about this team at this moment... tomorrow it might be another :D

Team has consistently got poorer under RH, failed to make the series a couple of times from 99-03... then made the series all year but one under BG...

So we did suck for a while then BG and AS got us out of trouble... now let's just go back to greatness.

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I strongly disagree!! I know I'm totally sold to Carey, so I'm 100% biased... but dammit, get it straight! Biron stole the show and Carey couldn't blank them out. Remember the thing about "we can't win if we don't score?" ;)

The rest is really good though.

Conclusion? we're still haunted by the Forum's ghosts.

You got it right there Streamer.

The Habs outplayed them every night, badly, and lost because of a hot goalie (hot for that series alone UGH!), it happens.

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nice thread.

I think the whole pattern of frustration has more to do with actual with expectations vs reality than bad luck. The 2002 and 2008 teams had no business going as far as they did, while the other editions seemingly never went as far as they should.

I dont think one can use the injury excuse and the no-star excuse at the same time. If you dont have players that are so great they get you over the top, then nobody on your team is so vital that injuries make or break your season. Either that or the injuries are a problem because there's a constant with the team that allows so many injuries.

I think the whole pattern comes down to the organization doing a pretty good PR job in making the fans settle for less than the Habs know the fans would ask for. In short, the Habs knows the fans set the bar high, so the Habs will do just enough to lull the fans into believing the team can be that good. That keeps the fans somewhat content, interested but expecting. The downside is that if the team doesnt perform, drama and bitterness ensues.

The idea about going into a rebuild mold and draft bonafide stars is a wee little bit off. The real issue is not having any player to build around. They tried with Saku, without results. They tried with Price, and that didnt work either. You need a special type of athlete to build around. A guy great on the ice and in the room. A strong personality, a franchise player. That's what the Habs have been lacking. You can't just put anyone in that role, especially not in Montreal. Yes, finishing low gives you a good chance to draft them, unless you go for a freaking goalie. There's always the trade route, but you need a GM who has enough cunning to pry the right player at the right age for the right price. Pouliot isnt it.

So in conclusion, I dont think it has anything to do with bad luck and I rest the blame almost entirely on management and, in some part, on fans for trusting management too much and being too eager to believe the Habs shrewed PR department. As long as the Bell Centre keeps being sold out and the waiting list for Habs season ticket stays 10 years long, the Habs will feel very little urgency in going at it the hard way and being in it for the long haul. Business is business, and when the team can turn a huge profit just with a handful playoffs games, they'll never really feel they need to do more than to put together a team who can call squeaking into the playoffs a "success".

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So in conclusion, I dont think it has anything to do with bad luck and I rest the blame almost entirely on management and, in some part, on fans for trusting management too much and being too eager to believe the Habs shrewed PR department. As long as the Bell Centre keeps being sold out and the waiting list for Habs season ticket stays 10 years long, the Habs will feel very little urgency in going at it the hard way and being in it for the long haul. Business is business, and when the team can turn a huge profit just with a handful playoffs games, they'll never really feel they need to do more than to put together a team who can call squeaking into the playoffs a "success".

I don't believe for a minute that management is satisfied, in any way, with the play of the Canadiens. What you see is what we are. We can play the hard luck card but it gets pretty stale after awhile. My report card would have management doing a P-poor job over the last decade or so. I listened to Mike Whilner on one of the radio shows out of Toronto, he suggested that we should be content going to the game, in his reference a Blue Jays game. God help us if we have to endorse that wisdom. The reality is that we are not very good. To win the big prize you need to be in the game on a consistent basis and just not a dream of what we could be.

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I don't believe for a minute that management is satisfied, in any way, with the play of the Canadiens. What you see is what we are. We can play the hard luck card but it gets pretty stale after awhile. My report card would have management doing a P-poor job over the last decade or so. I listened to Mike Whilner on one of the radio shows out of Toronto, he suggested that we should be content going to the game, in his reference a Blue Jays game. God help us if we have to endorse that wisdom. The reality is that we are not very good. To win the big prize you need to be in the game on a consistent basis and just not a dream of what we could be.

Yes, I don't believe the habs don't care about winning either. Anyone who thinks that Bob Gainey did not want to win, does not know anything about Bob Gainey. In fact, he sacrificed some of his lifelong friendships (Carbo and Jarvis) to the cause of winning.

Now it may be that the higher-ups - the Gillettes, the Boivins - haven't cared about winning. But to know that, we'd have to argue that they tied Gainey's hands in some way, impeded his ability to do what the team needed to do to win. There's been not a whiff of that as far as I can see. Indeed, ownership opened the vault so Gainey could run the table in an aggressive pursuit of UFAs and a historic reconstruction of the team, all with the intention of building a winner.

So the argument that they don't want to win doesn't stand up to scrutiny. In fact, if we hadn't had an insane meltdown in the second half of 2007-08 nobody would even be making the argument.

The real issue is a hockey issue. The first Gainey Rebuild simply didn't end up developing a strong enough crop of young players to sustain a contender. (The reasons for this are debatable but coaching at both AHL and NHL levels seemed to play a key role, as did a failure to understand the need for internal mentoring). That's a failure of execution, not will. For all the dismay over the recent abysmal play, a rational analyst would say that the verdict is still out on Gainey Rebuild 2.0; this nucleus has another 3-4 years and this was always going to be a transitional year anyway. We can lament this fact, but again, I can't see how we can argue that it's a result of deliberate apathy about winning.

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Yes, I don't believe the habs don't care about winning either. Anyone who thinks that Bob Gainey did not want to win, does not know anything about Bob Gainey. In fact, he sacrificed some of his lifelong friendships (Carbo and Jarvis) to the cause of winning.

Now it may be that the higher-ups - the Gillettes, the Boivins - haven't cared about winning. But to know that, we'd have to argue that they tied Gainey's hands in some way, impeded his ability to do what the team needed to do to win. There's been not a whiff of that as far as I can see. Indeed, ownership opened the vault so Gainey could run the table in an aggressive pursuit of UFAs and a historic reconstruction of the team, all with the intention of building a winner.

So the argument that they don't want to win doesn't stand up to scrutiny. In fact, if we hadn't had an insane meltdown in the second half of 2007-08 nobody would even be making the argument.

The real issue is a hockey issue. The first Gainey Rebuild simply didn't end up developing a strong enough crop of young players to sustain a contender. (The reasons for this are debatable but coaching at both AHL and NHL levels seemed to play a key role, as did a failure to understand the need for internal mentoring). That's a failure of execution, not will. For all the dismay over the recent abysmal play, a rational analyst would say that the verdict is still out on Gainey Rebuild 2.0; this nucleus has another 3-4 years and this was always going to be a transitional year anyway. We can lament this fact, but again, I can't see how we can argue that it's a result of deliberate apathy about winning.

GREAT THREAD :clap:

Hey CC you mentioned mentoring....

Do you think that the fact the Habs may have forced a few players into retirement and traded a few at the end of they playing days may play a minor to major role in this lack in player development?

When ever mentoring comes up I feel that players who have grown with the club in good and bad days can teach how to handle the pressures of play in MTL. Well IMO :)

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Actually, I partially agree with Kozey's sentiment. They failed to properly build around Koivu. He may or may not have been someone who could have had a team built around him, but we'll never know, because they did such a horrid job.

On the other hand, as for Price, I think it's years too early to say that it's been a failure building around him.

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Actually, I partially agree with Kozey's sentiment. They failed to properly build around Koivu. He may or may not have been someone who could have had a team built around him, but we'll never know, because they did such a horrid job.

On the other hand, as for Price, I think it's years too early to say that it's been a failure building around him.

What people don't realize is that every single day, Price is growing a professional player. He may not be the #1 at the moment, but you can imagine the things going through his mind and how he's learning to deal with them. IMO he's been treated more than fairly in his time with Montreal so he has no reason to complain now that Halak is the hotter goalie. So let it play out. The guy's 22, and he hasn't been the franchise saviour, cup clinching goalie that some people expected him to be, but once he gets a chance to play (and the hockey gods cut him some slack for a few games), I think we'll see his true colours.

Just watch Carey play. He's an unbelievable goaltender. He needs to mature, like most 22 yr olds, and sitting on the bench, watching someone else take his job is just one thing that will allow him to mature.

I have complete faith in Carey, I just hope they don't trade him. It'll be the biggest mistake they've made in a long time.

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What people don't realize is that every single day, Price is growing a professional player. He may not be the #1 at the moment, but you can imagine the things going through his mind and how he's learning to deal with them. IMO he's been treated more than fairly in his time with Montreal so he has no reason to complain now that Halak is the hotter goalie. So let it play out. The guy's 22, and he hasn't been the franchise saviour, cup clinching goalie that some people expected him to be, but once he gets a chance to play (and the hockey gods cut him some slack for a few games), I think we'll see his true colours.

Just watch Carey play. He's an unbelievable goaltender. He needs to mature, like most 22 yr olds, and sitting on the bench, watching someone else take his job is just one thing that will allow him to mature.

I have complete faith in Carey, I just hope they don't trade him. It'll be the biggest mistake they've made in a long time.

:clap: many good points Seb :clap:

here is where I say a trade might be in the cards:

- his contract bemands are not realistic from this team (obviously the Habs will need to look at a some $$$ from him to add to his and his self).

- he wants a guarante of games that may jepordize not only the team but his perso dev.

- his entourage feels him to be bigger then the team and gets him to pull a diva fit (thankfuly I can't say I've seen one as bad as last yr) in the playoffs :puke:

I know this is mostly all worst case sceans and there is a better chance he is human and real in knowing not only hockey is a major commercial enterprise and also a game wich is played in a team setting.

This is were my faith in CP sides with :unsure: , but would I be a fool to think this 22 yr old has forsight of a giraffe :unsure::huh::blink:

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What people don't realize is that every single day, Price is growing a professional player. He may not be the #1 at the moment, but you can imagine the things going through his mind and how he's learning to deal with them. IMO he's been treated more than fairly in his time with Montreal so he has no reason to complain now that Halak is the hotter goalie. So let it play out. The guy's 22, and he hasn't been the franchise saviour, cup clinching goalie that some people expected him to be, but once he gets a chance to play (and the hockey gods cut him some slack for a few games), I think we'll see his true colours.

Just watch Carey play. He's an unbelievable goaltender. He needs to mature, like most 22 yr olds, and sitting on the bench, watching someone else take his job is just one thing that will allow him to mature.

I have complete faith in Carey, I just hope they don't trade him. It'll be the biggest mistake they've made in a long time.

I agree. It can be seen in his post game comments.

Last year he seem to have a sense of entitlement. Until the All-Star game he had been dominant in junior,

the AHL and the NHL. He then had a poor 2 months and was never punished for it.

So when the fans threw him under the bus (and they did throw him under the bus). He reacted like the cocky

kid he was.

Fast forward to this season. After being booed after a good game against the Canes he reacted by saying I can't

control anything except what I do. I am going to continue to work hard and things will go my way.

THAT is a sign of maturity. Trading him will be a monumental error.

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I also agree that we need to remain patient with Carey. It's undeniable that the Kid has a shitload of talent! He will continue to mature and I still expect great things from teh kid in the future.

As for the team and why they've struggled over the past decade. I think that the Gainey rebuild failed mostly because we were unable to properly mentor, support and prepare our draft picks for life as a PROFESSIONAL in Montreal. Prepare them for the pressures and the demands of the fans and the media! We were also unable to properly surround Saku with good players. Saku was never meant to be a NUMBER 1 centre. He was a great 2nd line centre, but the fact that we never had a bonafide no. 1 centre, he was forced to do the job.

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