saskhab Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Wow....what a ridiculous contract. There was no reason to give this guy this kind of money. They should have let him walk. I am appalled to think of the money they are going to throw at Carey Price This contract means they have LESS money to throw at Carey Price, if anything. There is a salary cap after all, so the Habs can't pay everyone to the high end of what they could potentially get. Plekanec was the team's best player. He was approaching UFA age as one of the youngest, most attractive commodities out there. He signed for $1m less than what Cammalleri got last year in a similar situation (Camm had a career year in Calgary, following a subpar year in LA). Plekanec is a Selke-calibre player in the prime of his career. We need him, he likes it here. It's a good fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Hear, hear. How much of that was by goaltending though? If Halak doesn't make 50 saves a night in Round 1, we're talking about being the first or second team eliminated. Which core is the true one? The one who made it to the 3rd round or the one whose goaltending stole a series in Round 1? I don't think the core is at either of those (somewhere in the middle) which suggests 1st and 2nd round appearances at best for a while. Though it could be worse, I'd have preferred more flexibility (and I've been that way since I started tracking the cap where flexibility is everything). This is what I'm complaining about. The tam stays the same. Is almost stuck with this core four 4 years, and trades away the only reason they had a strong playoff run. Does this signing make the Habs a better team or improve their future? I don't know. Hopefully. But my first impression is that they got worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted June 22, 2010 Author Share Posted June 22, 2010 Hear, hear. How much of that was by goaltending though? If Halak doesn't make 50 saves a night in Round 1, we're talking about being the first or second team eliminated. Which core is the true one? The one who made it to the 3rd round or the one whose goaltending stole a series in Round 1? I don't think the core is at either of those (somewhere in the middle) which suggests 1st and 2nd round appearances at best for a while. Though it could be worse, I'd have preferred more flexibility (and I've been that way since I started tracking the cap where flexibility is everything). Goaltenders don't win series on their own. Halak could have stopped 80 of 82 shots, but if Cammalleri doesn't go crazy in the first round the Habs are also out of the playoffs. The Canadiens are not a top 4 team, but they are closer to being one making the Halak deal then to have signed him to $4M+ next season. Eller gives them depth up the middle and although small on the top 2 lines the Canadiens now have Lapierre and Eller on the bottom two lines, both north of 6'1". With the addition of PK to the roster full time and hopefully healthy seasons from Cammalleri, Gionta and the return of Markov and the Canadiens will likely be a better regular season team then they were in 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 This is what I'm complaining about. The tam stays the same. Is almost stuck with this core four 4 years, and trades away the only reason they had a strong playoff run. Does this signing make the Habs a better team or improve their future? I don't know. Hopefully. But my first impression is that they got worse. The habs players black and blue bruises would like to disagree with your assumption that the only reason they advanced was because of Halak in net. I'm so sick of people talking about these 50 shots a game like every shot was a picture perfect chance. The habs played a system of forcing the opponents to take weak, low probability shots. Team concept got the the habs to where they were, not goaltending, people are too stubborn to think of any other option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Goaltenders don't win series on their own. Halak could have stopped 80 of 82 shots, but if Cammalleri doesn't go crazy in the first round the Habs are also out of the playoffs. The Canadiens are not a top 4 team, but they are closer to being one making the Halak deal then to have signed him to $4M+ next season. Eller gives them depth up the middle and although small on the top 2 lines the Canadiens now have Lapierre and Eller on the bottom two lines, both north of 6'1". With the addition of PK to the roster full time and hopefully healthy seasons from Cammalleri, Gionta and the return of Markov and the Canadiens will likely be a better regular season team then they were in 2010. And if.... IF... (this is the BIG if) a certain young goalie drafted 5th overall becomes what he has potential to and can become we might have a very fun and crazy season ahead of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Goaltenders don't win series on their own. Halak could have stopped 80 of 82 shots, but if Cammalleri doesn't go crazy in the first round the Habs are also out of the playoffs. The Canadiens are not a top 4 team, but they are closer to being one making the Halak deal then to have signed him to $4M+ next season. Eller gives them depth up the middle and although small on the top 2 lines the Canadiens now have Lapierre and Eller on the bottom two lines, both north of 6'1". With the addition of PK to the roster full time and hopefully healthy seasons from Cammalleri, Gionta and the return of Markov and the Canadiens will likely be a better regular season team then they were in 2010. Goalies may not win series on their own but Halak clearly was a huge difference maker (to choose my words carefully). If the goalie has to be a significant difference maker for the team to have a chance (despite Cammalleri's efforts), it's not the greatest recipe for success. But I digress... Agreed that they're better off long-term with Eller instead of Halak especially if the plan was to earmark his salary for Plekanec (best to be spending 6 for Eller/Plekanec than 9 for Halak/Plekanec). At least there's some cheaper depth in the system to supplant larger salaried players at some point down the road. If they're planning to keep both Gomez and Plekanec long-term though, one would think they'd rather use Eller on the wing rather than have him as an above average 3rd line C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 And if.... IF... (this is the BIG if) a certain young goalie drafted 5th overall becomes what he has potential to and can become we might have a very fun and crazy season ahead of us. If the habs can remain relatively injury free this season, I'd warrent we will not be fighting the last game for a playoff spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted June 22, 2010 Author Share Posted June 22, 2010 This is what I'm complaining about. The tam stays the same. Is almost stuck with this core four 4 years, and trades away the only reason they had a strong playoff run. Does this signing make the Habs a better team or improve their future? I don't know. Hopefully. But my first impression is that they got worse. They aren't the same and I don't know how you believe they got worse. Carey Price is not Brian Boucher. Teams get by with absolute garbage in goal in the regular season. Philly made the playoffs with Boucher and Leighton starting the bulk of their games. They added youthful depth up the middle and they will be adding a premier prospect on defense at minimal cost. They also should have a healthier team next season. The Canadiens now have a strong veteran presence in Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri, Gill, Plekanec, Markov and Hamrlik and a youthful core that will offer internal improvement in Price, Subban, Eller and Pouliot. If one of the young guys offers any significant improvement they team dynamic can change instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 The habs players black and blue bruises would like to disagree with your assumption that the only reason they advanced was because of Halak in net. I'm so sick of people talking about these 50 shots a game like every shot was a picture perfect chance. The habs played a system of forcing the opponents to take weak, low probability shots. Team concept got the the habs to where they were, not goaltending, people are too stubborn to think of any other option. I think you may have skewed a little far, as essentially you're suggesting that it wouldn't have mattered who was in net for the Habs given the system in place. The way Price was playing down the stretch, I don't think he could've won that series. The system was effective and not all 50 shots were quality, but there still were a lot of good chances. (I've gotta stop talking about the playoffs in here, I'm helping derail the thread...not good.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I think you may have skewed a little far, as essentially you're suggesting that it wouldn't have mattered who was in net for the Habs given the system in place. The way Price was playing down the stretch, I don't think he could've won that series. The system was effective and not all 50 shots were quality, but there still were a lot of good chances. (I've gotta stop talking about the playoffs in here, I'm helping derail the thread...not good.) Nah, I'm not making that assumption, I did say that his wasn't the only reason. The habs played differently in the playoffs, they scrambled, they fought, they grabbed rebounds. I think it's a huge diservice to the team to say it was all Halak. I mean Cammy lead he playoffs in scoring for a good part, remove him and it doesn't matter what Halak does. How about allowing only 1 PP goal by the habs against WSH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Goalies may not win series on their own but Halak clearly was a huge difference maker (to choose my words carefully). If the goalie has to be a significant difference maker for the team to have a chance (despite Cammalleri's efforts), it's not the greatest recipe for success. But I digress... Agreed that they're better off long-term with Eller instead of Halak especially if the plan was to earmark his salary for Plekanec (best to be spending 6 for Eller/Plekanec than 9 for Halak/Plekanec). At least there's some cheaper depth in the system to supplant larger salaried players at some point down the road. If they're planning to keep both Gomez and Plekanec long-term though, one would think they'd rather use Eller on the wing rather than have him as an above average 3rd line C. How about 10 for Marleau/Halak? I dunno. 8 for Jokinen/Halak? 7 for Lombardi/Halak and room for a big winger with a few changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted June 22, 2010 Author Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) I think you may have skewed a little far, as essentially you're suggesting that it wouldn't have mattered who was in net for the Habs given the system in place. The way Price was playing down the stretch, I don't think he could've won that series. The system was effective and not all 50 shots were quality, but there still were a lot of good chances. (I've gotta stop talking about the playoffs in here, I'm helping derail the thread...not good.) Price probably couldn't have replicated it, but he also hadn't played in a month. He looked extremely rusty and slow when he did see the net. Halak's SV% declined with each series as each team removed the perimeter shots that padded his SV%. I looked at his shot charts and Philly's shots within 10 feet doubled Washington's in 2 less games, they also took half the perimeter shots the Caps did yet somehow lit Halak up. Quality not quantity. It was a team effort and Halak was an integral part of that team, but if you remove 1 of the pillars the house would have collapsed. Remove one of Halak, Cammalleri, Gionta, Gill and they probably lose. Edited June 22, 2010 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Agreed that they're better off long-term with Eller instead of Halak especially if the plan was to earmark his salary for Plekanec (best to be spending 6 for Eller/Plekanec than 9 for Halak/Plekanec). At least there's some cheaper depth in the system to supplant larger salaried players at some point down the road. If they're planning to keep both Gomez and Plekanec long-term though, one would think they'd rather use Eller on the wing rather than have him as an above average 3rd line C. We'll see how it works out with Eller. He has potential at both positions. I think the Habs need a 3rd line that can score goals, and Eller could be that centre. Plekanec can do a lot of the heavy lifting defensively (Gomez can help out, too), so a 3rd line that can put the pressure on offensively could be a big weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted June 22, 2010 Author Share Posted June 22, 2010 How about 10 for Marleau/Halak? I dunno. 8 for Jokinen/Halak? 7 for Lombardi/Halak and room for a big winger with a few changes? You overrate the importance of goaltending. The Bruins gave Thomas $5M per season because he won the Vezina and was irreplaceable. 12 months later and they have a $5M backup and a starter that earns 850K. In 2009 the Bruins got to Game 7 of the second round, in 2010 the Bruins got to Game 7 of the second round. So if the "BEST" goalie in the NHL in 2009 was replaceable, why isn't Halak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Nah, I'm not making that assumption, I did say that his wasn't the only reason. The habs played differently in the playoffs, they scrambled, they fought, they grabbed rebounds. I think it's a huge diservice to the team to say it was all Halak. I mean Cammy lead he playoffs in scoring for a good part, remove him and it doesn't matter what Halak does. How about allowing only 1 PP goal by the habs against WSH... Ya, I agree with the fact that the team stepped up, but Halak was the star. I've said this a million times and nobody seems to acknowledge it. Whether it's a system issue or a size issue, this team has a tough time against big strong defense. They desparately need 2 people who can drive the net and get inside. If they can find those two, or convert Poulliot and AK into those two, I will be happy. But signing Plek to 6 years seems extreme. It wouldn't be if they didn't already have a full compliment of perimeter players. Our only power forward is Gionta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I am coming off a little too negative. 5 mill was exactky what I knew he would get. 6 years is a little tough, but if the cap goes up, it could work in our favour for trades later. Kaberle was high paid when he signed. Now he's a steal if anyone trades for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Plekanec also played pre-season, regular season, olympics, and 19 playoff games. He could have been a little worn out. I think Plekanec will improve. I say this solely based on my own opinion that he has a good head on his shoulders. From dealing with Kovy, the pressure he places on himself, his ability to evaluate his own performance (and know when he is playing 'like a girl') and now settling for what he knows is a good and fair contract, as opposed to dragging his team and himself through hunting for the extra $.5M in free agency; I'd say he's a pretty dedicated, humble guy. And he didn't get this far in his career not caring about how he plays. With that being said, he's a smart player who tries every night. He's player I say is worth 5mil/year. At least now he can focus on his game, and not worry about money for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Like BTH and Wamsley, I am baffled by all the negativity. Honestly, I thought he'd make significantly over $5 mil per on the open market. Considering the Montreal tax stuff, he's probably underpaid. There is an element of risk here because of his 39-point regression two years ago. But I don't buy all the "he chokes in the clutch" stuff. They say that about practically EVERY young player learning how to succeed in the post-season. They said it about Datsyuk for a couple of years. People are forgetting that he played injured, has been on a learning curve, played without adequate wingers for much of the stretch/playoffs, and is only now entering his prime (which is typical of fans' attitudes toward players that come up through the system - Pleks is only turning 28 but he seems to have been around forever). If he continues to play as he did this season that will be a good contract. If his game continues to develop it will be a really good contract. This is a sensible GMing move and instead of freaking out Habs fans should be happy the team has locked up this hard-working and exciting forward for his prime years - just as we did with Cammallerri. Solid stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Don't see Plekanec 'continue to develop'. He is at his peak right now, and any changes year to year will be either the result of his teammates, injuries, or just plain old rotten luck (or good luck, even). Look, he was the team's best player for the full season, and he's still only tied with Gionta for the fifth highest paid going into next year. I don't know if he's the best player of the bunch, he was the best last year, though and still didn't demand even Hamrlik money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Why can't Plekanec continue to develop? Because he is a Habs? Plekanec has made huge strides forward this year. He raised his profile from "little girl" to being the #1 center for his country at the olympics! He gained tremendous confidence this year, and freed from Kovalev he has established himself as a playmaker. Plus he's got a wicked shot, good faceoff skills and stellar hockey-sense. He is only 27 and I think this 6 year deal will not put weight on his shoulders (he is not the top paid player in the team.. Cammalleri, Gomez and Gionta are all paid the same or more). On the contrary, I think this deal will give him stability and confidence. Plus, if the team trusted him for a 6 year contract, we have to believe the management loves his commitment to the city and team, and his work ethics. If not, they would have let him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Plekanec... has no-trade clause http://twitter.com/habsinsideout1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Plekanec... http://twitter.com/habsinsideout1 Hmmm. I'm not crazy about that. Presumably that's why we were able to sign him at LESS than market rate (yes, Chicken Little, you read right). Hopefully it's a limited NTC - but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 NTC for sure... his agent isnt stupid, you never get hometown discount on a prized player without any kind of NTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 These no trade deals get waived all the time. I'm not worried. The league is full of nice places to play, if things go south here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 You overrate the importance of goaltending. The Bruins gave Thomas $5M per season because he won the Vezina and was irreplaceable. 12 months later and they have a $5M backup and a starter that earns 850K. In 2009 the Bruins got to Game 7 of the second round, in 2010 the Bruins got to Game 7 of the second round. So if the "BEST" goalie in the NHL in 2009 was replaceable, why isn't Halak? Chicago is a great example. Huet is a 5 million dollar backup and look at Niemi. Niemi was not great but still won the cup and may be expendable very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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