Sergei to Nashville

[Peter Puck]

He has some talent, no question. But his previous coaches in Hamilton expressed surprise at his work ethic in his NHL rookie season - a warning flag if you ask me - and Kostitsyn was reassigned to Hamilton under Carbo as well, not just JM. Then he showed up to camp out of shape and lackadaisical and demanded a trade after being sent down; following this he alienated his teammates, then slagged both them and Habs management in the press. This guy is toxic waste.

I see no reason to blame JM that Sergei is an a**hole.

Lets get the facts straight at least. He showed up to camp still recovering from an injury. He played 2 preseason games and then was sent down. When did he slag his teammates in the press? Link please. And don't point to some russian "reporter" - all those guys are unreliable nd hardly qualify as press.

[ForumGhost]

Even if Ellis doesn't sign, it was still the right move.

[Habsy]

Lets get the facts straight at least. He showed up to camp still recovering from an injury. He played 2 preseason games and then was sent down. When did he slag his teammates in the press? Link please. And don't point to some russian "reporter" - all those guys are unreliable nd hardly qualify as press.

I agree we should, but it's no use. So much hatred for this guy, don't even bother trying to stop it.

[hab29RETIRED]

Even if Ellis doesn't sign, it was still the right move.

sorry, i'd say even if we sign Ellis - it was the wrong move. Getting rights to two UFA's for a 22 year old RFA is just plain stupid. Both Ellis and Boyd could have been had for nothing in another 12 hours or so.

SK74 really was but through the hoops by Martin, when other guys did as they please. I'm not exonerating SK74, but the habs are making a habit of turning young guys into problem childs, only to watch them break out as soon as they leave montreal. SK74 has potential to be a 25/70 guy who can play the PP and PK. He was misused, mishandled and given up for nothing.

I also don't get all the love for PG. He is making a habit of overpaying and not getting fair value back on every move he has made up to his point.

[BlueKross]

sorry, i'd say even if we sign Ellis - it was the wrong move. Getting rights to two UFA's for a 22 year old RFA is just plain stupid. Both Ellis and Boyd could have been had for nothing in another 12 hours or so.

SK74 really was but through the hoops by Martin, when other guys did as they please. I'm not exonerating SK74, but the habs are making a habit of turning young guys into problem childs, only to watch them break out as soon as they leave montreal. SK74 has potential to be a 25/70 guy who can play the PP and PK. He was misused, mishandled and given up for nothing.

I also don't get all the love for PG. He is making a habit of overpaying and not getting fair value back on every move he has made up to his point.

Sergei's value has fallen. I am in the camp that would suggest that blame largely falls on management and the handling of young prospects coming up. I would like to see Sergei go to Nashville and have some success such as we seen while playing for the Knights. I think that is his best option. He could obviously bolt for Russia, leaving us with another draft pick squandered. I just see PG leaving us in a very precarious position. PG needs to sign both Boyd and Ellis to make this work for me (at a reasonable price). A fifth round draft choice is not enough.

[bar]

sorry, i'd say even if we sign Ellis - it was the wrong move. Getting rights to two UFA's for a 22 year old RFA is just plain stupid. Both Ellis and Boyd could have been had for nothing in another 12 hours or so.

SK74 really was but through the hoops by Martin, when other guys did as they please. I'm not exonerating SK74, but the habs are making a habit of turning young guys into problem childs, only to watch them break out as soon as they leave montreal. SK74 has potential to be a 25/70 guy who can play the PP and PK. He was misused, mishandled and given up for nothing.

I also don't get all the love for PG. He is making a habit of overpaying and not getting fair value back on every move he has made up to his point.

I've been one to bag on JM for mistreating of rookies this year, but how can you absolve SK for his actions this year? Yes, he may have been treated unfairly some, but he is far from blameless. There's other players who deserved better this season, but SK doesn't top this list.

[Habsy]

He didn't absolve him, read the post. There's blame on both sides of the issue, management and player. If SK succeeds in Nashville, we look like fools, again.

[ForumGhost]

What exactly did the Habs do to sabotage Sergei? They gave him every opportunity to succeed, even after the Hamilton fiasco. They were generous.

Edited July 1, 2010 by ForumGhost

[hab29RETIRED]

I've been one to bag on JM for mistreating of rookies this year, but how can you absolve SK for his actions this year? Yes, he may have been treated unfairly some, but he is far from blameless. There's other players who deserved better this season, but SK doesn't top this list.

You have to take different approaches with different players. JM seemed already decided he was going to be a hardass yeller and screamer when it came to SK. From his first practice it was reported he was constantly yelling at him. He got on his case for being late for a meeting and really didn't even give him much of a look in camp before sending him to the minors. Why is it that Boucher had nothing negative to say about SK?? Yes, SK shot of his mouth a lot during the year, but he is a IMMATURE, YOUNG player, not a coach who has been in the game over 20 years and can't seem to adapt to the new game or young players.

When your a 22 year old kid, who is like most immature hot head 22 year old and you see the rope that was given to MaxPac, and Lats, despite their play during the past 2 years (you can also add Laps for most of this year until he woke up mid-way through the first round of the playoffs) and you see yourselves buried in the minors and get put on the cross for every bad penalty you are probably going to shoot your mouth off - hell i remember what i was like at 22.

To me it was clear there were different rules for SK and the rest of the team. I'll be first to say that he kept on digging his own grave, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he was shooting off his mouth to force the habs to trade him, because it clearly wasn't going to work with Martin. SK for the stretch where he actually got playing time was a regular 3 star selection when guys where hurt and then as soon as players were back, he was the first one to ride the pine after his first mistake. Vetern leaders like Gomez and Gill took bonehead stupid, lazy penalties all year long, and Martin did not blink an eye. Laps & Lats dogged it for the first quarter and it was long time before Lats was sent to the press box and then finally sent out of town. Funny, how he immidiately started lighting it up and broke out after getting traded - a la Ribeiro or Leclair. Martin seems to want players to be what he thinks they should be and act the way way he wants them to act. First thing a coach should know is that everyone is different and a coach's JOB is to play to an individuals strengths to get the most out of him. Something i don't think JM is capable of and which is why I think long-term the worst thing that happened was their playoff run (as much as it was fun to watch), because it meant we will have another year of JM and let the best young coaching prospect go to another team in the eastern conference.

PG is making a habit of overpaying in his deals and not getting enough of a return. Even if SK bolted for the KHL, i would rather have held on to his rights, becuase, he doesn't sound like a guy who wants to be in russia long-term and I think he proably would have lit it up in the KHL (like he probably will in Nashville) and we would have been able to get a much better return at that time. And who knows, he may have come back more mature and even willing to give it another shot with the habs. As it is, we may only just get a 7th round pick for him, which is BS trade. I think what we got for Halak was BS. I would have signed him let both Price and Halak play and then move one next year. I think both guys would have had a big year and you could have decided at that point who to move and got a much better return. I also think giving up a 2nd rounder for moving up 5 spots in the latter third of the 1st round was a high price to pay - i liked the pick - would have preferred taking a flyer on big center who may become a scorer, but of all the habs 1st round USA defence picks, this was probably the best one - I'd rather take a college player in the last third of the first round then in the top 8 to 12 like the habs have in the past, since it is much harder to project a college bound kid who has not played as many games in junior hockey and is usually a 3-4 years away from the pros.

The last criticism I have for PG is hanging on to Hamrlik. I wouldn't want to buy him out but there has GOT to be a team would take him. I also think that the habs need to get tough and make the tough choices like the devils in dumping under acheiving talent (relative to their high cap hit) to the minors if they have to. I like Hamrlik and would keep him if was making $3M, but having Hamrlik and Spacek at over $9M is absurd. Who knows, PG, may still trade or demote Hamrlik, because that to me was the most logical way to address the cap situation - before making a decision on the goalies. And for those that say that demoting a player is classless, get over it, it is the reality of the cap and the only way of dealing with cap mistakes.

Edited July 1, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[Chris]

Sk is a tool who hasn't done ANYTHING in the nhl. He barely has more points then me, and i don't get his ice time.

In case people haven't noticed there has been a culture change in Montreal, it's our way or the highway. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem, which SK is.

Now you are starting to see good players show interest in becming a player in Montreal, it's not a coincidnece that when the garbage and problems started leaving things got better.

[hab29RETIRED]

What exactly did the Habs do to sabotage Sergei? They gave him every opportunity to succeed, even after the Hamilton fiasco. They were generous.

I don't remember saying the habs sabotaged Sk. He was mishandled. There is a BIG difference between sabotaging a player and mishandling a player. JM mishandled SK all year, mainly because, in all honesty, I think the game has really passed him by. After the wins, who were the players constantly praising for the adjusments - Muller. During the game, who is the one communicating with the players - Muller. Contrast that with Detroit, Philly or Pittsburgh. Where it is the head coach who is communicating with his players. Good coaches don't sit there with their arms crossed while their assistants run the show.

[hab29RETIRED]

Sk is a tool who hasn't done ANYTHING in the nhl. He barely has more points then me, and i don't get his ice time.

In case people haven't noticed there has been a culture change in Montreal, it's our way or the highway. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem, which SK is.

Now you are starting to see good players show interest in becming a player in Montreal, it's not a coincidnece that when the garbage and problems started leaving things got better.

players started to show an interest after the year they were first in the conferance and IMO after the 2 year long celebrations of the habs past. Not from the culture change. What did Cammy or Gionta know about the my way or the high way approach before they signed here. Your comments are classic revisionist history.

I won't even bother on commenting on your first point.

Edited July 1, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[Chris]

Because Gomez, Gionta Gill and others were brought in because they are winners, good locker room people and not a problem off the ice.

How many problems have there been over the years with habs players, locker room splits, people not showing up on the ice, etc.

it makes a difference.

[Habsy]

I can't believe the hate around here for this player. Well, you got your wish, he's gonzo. Don't be surprised if he scores 20 next year, and Dustin Boyd scores 8, IF we sign him. SK's trade value was zero, I have no problem with that. It's his upside I'm worried about. If Plex slips a little, and Carey Price isn't Halak next season, we don't make the playoffs. Cheap, secondary scoring is our weakness, that's where SK might have helped.

[hab29RETIRED]

I can't believe the hate around here for this player. Well, you got your wish, he's gonzo. Don't be surprised if he scores 20 next year, and Dustin Boyd scores 8, IF we sign him. SK's trade value was zero, I have no problem with that. It's his upside I'm worried about. If Plex slips a little, and Carey Price isn't Halak next season, we don't make the playoffs. Cheap, secondary scoring is our weakness, that's where SK might have helped.

I don't get the hate either - especially given how Lats/Laps are generally given a free ride. I guess if he was named Stephan instead of Sergei, he'd get a lot more support. I think SK will proably have a breakout year, potentially greater then 20 goals. I like Boyd as a third liner and if used properly may score 10-15 goals. But that is a lousy tradeoff, as Boyd's upside is possibly 15 goals 40 points, whereas, I see SK as a potential 30 goal/75 point guy.

Totally agree on rolling the dice on Price. If costs $4M for Price + somoene else and $5.5M for Price + Halak, i'd take the Price/Halak combo anyday.

Edited July 1, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[ForumGhost]

It doesn't matter if he scores 20 next year, the fact remains that he was a distraction and a problem in the locker room. Anyone will tell you team cohesion is worth hell of a lot more than stats.

The only reason JM was hard on him all year is because it's the only way kids like that will learn. If you let him get away with feeling entitled, that's the kind of player you are molding him into. You have to break his bad habits now. JM tried, Sergei didn't wanna play ball, and that was that. Bravo to both JM and PG for handling the situation properly.

Edited July 1, 2010 by ForumGhost

[bar]

The writing was on the wall when reports came out from him bagging on the organization for trading Halak. Confirmed or not, SK has shown a lack of respect towards the organization..the upside he may have brought wasn't worth the downsides he can cause.

[Habsy]

It doesn't matter if he scores 20 next year, the fact remains that he was a distraction and a problem in the locker room. Anyone will tell you team cohesion is worth hell of a lot more than stats.

The only reason JM was hard on him all year is because it's the only way kids like that will learn. If you let him get away with feeling entitled, that's the kind of player you are molding him into. You have to break his bad habits now. JM tried, Sergei didn't wanna play ball, and that was that. Bravo to both JM and PG for handling the situation properly.

If he scores 20, we look foolish. It's the only thing that matters. Performance, productivity. Handling the situation properly? That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Attitudes can be changed, why give up on talent, again? He's still young.

[bar]

It does not matter what happens in place B, you cannot assume that the same would have happened in place A. Riberio, and Lats are examples of this. A trade is a wake up call a lot of times.

[Habsy]

It does not matter what happens in place B, you cannot assume that the same would have happened in place A. Riberio, and Lats are examples of this. A trade is a wake up call a lot of times.

No assumptions are being made, as SK hasn't lived up to his potential yet. I'd prefer to wait and see. No point in debating this, he's gone, and we disagree.

[ForumGhost]

If he scores 20, we look foolish. It's the only thing that matters. Performance, productivity. Handling the situation properly? That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Attitudes can be changed, why give up on talent, again? He's still young.

No one will think we looks foolish. This is Ribeiro all over again. Sergei was not going to reach his potential here, anyone can see that. Why corrupt your locker room waiting for something that will never come? It would be stupid to let him stay. You would keep someone in your locker room that openly slams the organization and players?

[hab29RETIRED]

Because Gomez, Gionta Gill and others were brought in because they are winners, good locker room people and not a problem off the ice.

How many problems have there been over the years with habs players, locker room splits, people not showing up on the ice, etc.

it makes a difference.

You really need to think through your case. First your saying that before guys didn't want to come to montreal becoz of the culture. Well the culture wasn't changed until they brought in so-called proven winners (ask NYR fans about Gomez's winning impact and production in NY). GOmez, Gionta, Cammy, Gill were brought in before the my way or the highway approach came in.

As far as split locker rooms, we DID have a split locker room this year with Gill and Gomez. They managed to gel together in the playoffs.

Again, you are using classic revisionist history in your arguements, which make no sense. Attributing montreal became an attractive place to play because of the change of the culture, if the culture was such an issue in the decision, Cammy, Gionta, Gill, Cammy, Moen, Spacek would not have signed. IMO Montreal became attractive again for two reasons. The first was that they had a the big turnaround a couple of years ago (before crashing hard and squeaking in the playoffs last year). The second was all the hype over the 100 anniversary that put empahsis on the teams history and past success, which kind of was effective in brushing the previous 12 years or so where the team stunk.

The culture change did not pre-date the willingness of free agents to sign.

[Habsy]

No one will think we looks foolish. This is Ribeiro all over again. Sergei was not going to reach his potential here, anyone can see that. Why corrupt your locker room waiting for something that will never come? It would be stupid to let him stay. You would keep someone in your locker room that openly slams the organization and players?

Ok, so now it's stupid to let him stay? You love the trade, good for you. If he reaches potential, we look bad, again. This debate is boring. He's gone.

[ForumGhost]

Ok, so now it's stupid to let him stay?

Yes, absolutely.

[hab29RETIRED]

It doesn't matter if he scores 20 next year, the fact remains that he was a distraction and a problem in the locker room. Anyone will tell you team cohesion is worth hell of a lot more than stats.

The only reason JM was hard on him all year is because it's the only way kids like that will learn. If you let him get away with feeling entitled, that's the kind of player you are molding him into. You have to break his bad habits now. JM tried, Sergei didn't wanna play ball, and that was that. Bravo to both JM and PG for handling the situation properly.

Yep, Martin handled the situation properly, very effectively. He managed to get two of our top offensive prospects driven out of town.

What is the point of a coach????? JM needs to deal individuals differently (that's why they are referrred to as INDIVDIUALS). There is a reason why young players have regressed under him (Horton regressed as soon as Martin got to Florida, he had trouble with Spezza, who flourished as soon as Martin was canned, Bouwmeester didn't get along with him, even Pouliot came over from Hamilton and Bocuher lighting things up and then disappeared).

I really don't give a damn that he gets a lot of of the Darche's or the Pyatt's. Those are not guys that are going to take the team to the next level. Lats, SK, Pouliot are the guys that can be difference makers. Martin has already driven out two of those guys. Up to now his methods clearly have not worked. Let's see what happens with Pouliot now.