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Habs Fans Re: Price

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Yeah and maybe then we can talk to Philly about getting Michael Leighton and we could have both cup final goalies!!!

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Price is not responsible of the Halak trade, if people ain't

happy with the hockey management not keeping the players that the crowd love, it's

to the CH that the message should go not a player. Don't buy shirts, flags, pyjama's,

bathing suit, caps every merchendising, don't pay a penny to see them playand one day they will understand

and do something for the fans. Wich they do not give a damn for the time being.

And stirring schnout on the guys that left and gave us good time is not sportsmanship either.

Halak made us happy, he deserves a standing O the day he goals one in this one sport city

Crappy comments on Halak let'S go

Halak wasn't the hero of last year playoffs... then how the bloody hell did

they get throught Washington and Pittsburg.

He lost the locker room, yeahh right. He slept with the same girl that the coach was

doing. No he was link to mafia, or he raped a girl in a bar. That is juicy stories yours

ain't.

Not sure of Halak and still not, sure of Price and still ain't could be in the same

sentence.

Best duo in the league, lol best duo is Miller with anybody for 82 games.

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Nah, he's not the only person who thinks Halak wasn't a hero. I wasn't convinced in Halak then, and still am not.

+1.

Actually I am convinced. 100% convinced that he was playing WAY over his head.

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+1.

Actually I am convinced. 100% convinced that he was playing WAY over his head.

Quite possible. But that has nothing to do with the question of whether he was a playoff hero. Which he WAS.

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Quite possible. But that has nothing to do with the question of whether he was a playoff hero. Which he WAS.

That's a personal choice really, it's not something you can quantify. To me, a playoff hero means you're the sole reason for a victory. Cammy, the G & G duo, PK (penalty kill, not Subban, although he stepped up big in Markovs absence), take any of these three out of the picture and no matter what Halak does the team does not get past the Caps, let along the Pens. That's why I like to personally think it was a TEAM victory, the playoff hero is so over played, this isn't '93 anymore.

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I agree that Halak's performance this past playoffs is being incredibly overrated.

Some things that I believe can be considered as fact:

1) It is widely accepted that the Habs played STELLAR team defence despite some injuries.

2) Many of Halak's shots were from the perimeter inflating his save percentage in Pittsburgh and Washington

3) He was pulled in 3 games...that in itself is a HUGE crimp in any argument that he had an amazing playoff. If he wasn't pulled how would those analytics look?? The guy was pulled in almost 15% of the games he started...

It's pretty apparent the Habs played some of their best games as an overall team in the first two rounds. Pitt and Wash appeared to think they could win on talent alone and didn't adjust. Philly came into their series READY...by then Montreal seemed to have bought into the "hype and destiny" BS. They got dominated physically. They had no transition game and lost the neutral zone in almost every game.

Halak looked bad when Montreal played bad as a team. Halak looked great when Montreal played well as a team.

How can anyone basically ignore that this guy was PULLED in 3 games and still call his playoffs amazing????

As for Carey Price...how about we compare Halak and Price's stats at the same age. Compare their "pedigree" of performance. Would be a more legit comparison.

I am not saying Halak is a bad goalie. I am not saying he didn't deserve to start in the playoffs. I AM saying that his performance is being highly overrated.

I believe Carey Price will have a fine season. Anyone notice the splits for Price when he had 1 days rest versus 3+ days rest? He's built to take on a heavy workload. Halak was almost the opposite. Is it any surprise that Price didn't look good as a back-up?

I also found it interesting that Halak played more then half his starts (60%) against the following: Toronto, NYR, NYI, ATL, FLA, TB, OTT, CAR. Combined record of those teams: 282 - 284 - 90. They also had a GF-GA DIFF of MINUS 231...only OTT, NYR and ATL scraped out winning records of that bunch. Halak's record against this much easier grouping of teams was 16-5-2 with a 2.24 GAA and .931 SV%...clearly skewing the "stats" in his favour. He gained A LOT from playing against weaker teams. Carey Price played only 28% of his games against those teams (in fact, he played no games against OTT (probably the best of that group).

The bulk of Price's remaining minutes (38%) came against WSH, BOS, BUFF, PIT, PHI...Halak played 17% of his minutes against this group. Price actually appeared to actually have a better numbers against this group versus the other too. Combined record of those teams 226 - 135 - 49. They had a GF - GA DIFF of PLUS 150.

Price also played individual games against CHI, DET, SJ, COL, NJ, NSH, VAN in another 17% of his minutes...Halak only played 9% of his games against them (almost all against NJ). Combined record of those teams: 334 - 180 - 60 with a GF - GA DIFF of PLUS 216.

But let's ignore all that for the fact that Halak was incredible in the playoffs...and still got pulled in 3 games.

I'm just sayin...

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I want to copy/pasta this post in response to every ill-informed (this a word?) poster on forums, blogs, etc.

Also as an aside, isn't it an interesting juxtaposition regarding Price/Habs and the contract...we here on the board were sure it was the habs who wanted 1-2 years, and Price was pushing for longer term, yet the comments of the agent today tends to suggest otherwise...hehe we all wear the goat horns on this one.

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I agree that Halak's performance this past playoffs is being incredibly overrated.

Some things that I believe can be considered as fact:

1) It is widely accepted that the Habs played STELLAR team defence despite some injuries.

2) Many of Halak's shots were from the perimeter inflating his save percentage in Pittsburgh and Washington

3) He was pulled in 3 games...that in itself is a HUGE crimp in any argument that he had an amazing playoff. If he wasn't pulled how would those analytics look?? The guy was pulled in almost 15% of the games he started...

It's pretty apparent the Habs played some of their best games as an overall team in the first two rounds. Pitt and Wash appeared to think they could win on talent alone and didn't adjust. Philly came into their series READY...by then Montreal seemed to have bought into the "hype and destiny" BS. They got dominated physically. They had no transition game and lost the neutral zone in almost every game.

Halak looked bad when Montreal played bad as a team. Halak looked great when Montreal played well as a team.

How can anyone basically ignore that this guy was PULLED in 3 games and still call his playoffs amazing????

As for Carey Price...how about we compare Halak and Price's stats at the same age. Compare their "pedigree" of performance. Would be a more legit comparison.

I am not saying Halak is a bad goalie. I am not saying he didn't deserve to start in the playoffs. I AM saying that his performance is being highly overrated.

I believe Carey Price will have a fine season. Anyone notice the splits for Price when he had 1 days rest versus 3+ days rest? He's built to take on a heavy workload. Halak was almost the opposite. Is it any surprise that Price didn't look good as a back-up?

I also found it interesting that Halak played more then half his starts (60%) against the following: Toronto, NYR, NYI, ATL, FLA, TB, OTT, CAR. Combined record of those teams: 282 - 284 - 90. They also had a GF-GA DIFF of MINUS 231...only OTT, NYR and ATL scraped out winning records of that bunch. Halak's record against this much easier grouping of teams was 16-5-2 with a 2.24 GAA and .931 SV%...clearly skewing the "stats" in his favour. He gained A LOT from playing against weaker teams. Carey Price played only 28% of his games against those teams (in fact, he played no games against OTT (probably the best of that group).

The bulk of Price's remaining minutes (38%) came against WSH, BOS, BUFF, PIT, PHI...Halak played 17% of his minutes against this group. Price actually appeared to actually have a better numbers against this group versus the other too. Combined record of those teams 226 - 135 - 49. They had a GF - GA DIFF of PLUS 150.

Price also played individual games against CHI, DET, SJ, COL, NJ, NSH, VAN in another 17% of his minutes...Halak only played 9% of his games against them (almost all against NJ). Combined record of those teams: 334 - 180 - 60 with a GF - GA DIFF of PLUS 216.

But let's ignore all that for the fact that Halak was incredible in the playoffs...and still got pulled in 3 games.

I'm just sayin...

:clap::clap::clap:

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He lost the locker room, yeahh right. He slept with the same girl that the coach was

doing. No he was link to mafia, or he raped a girl in a bar. That is juicy stories yours

ain't.

If it was something you should know about, I would assume you would know.

It's isn't something "Juicy" like you want it to be, but the impact was enough for the room.

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Quite possible. But that has nothing to do with the question of whether he was a playoff hero. Which he WAS.

Roy in 93' and to a lesser extent 86' is the definition of playoff hero for a goaltender.

Maybe the use of the word is too lose now. How many people were running around talking up Gary Shuchuk as a playoff hero after a stellar playoffs?

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Roy in 93' and to a lesser extent 86' is the definition of playoff hero for a goaltender.

Maybe the use of the word is too lose now. How many people were running around talking up Gary Shuchuk as a playoff hero after a stellar playoffs?

Agree. Halak was a 2 series hero, not a playoffs hero.

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Well, bar is wrong to say that a playoff hero is a guy who is 'the sole reason for a vcitory.' Nobody is the sole reason for playoff series victories. Everyone remembers Patrick Roy as a playoff hero, and God knows I worship at the altar of Roy, but he would not have won a damn thing without the incredible play and clutch goals of Kirk Muller, the historic hat trick by Eric Desjardins to even the series in Game 2, the crazy performances by John LeClair and Paul DiPietro. So the fact that (say) Cammy had a monster playoff doesn't mean that Halak wasn't a playoff hero.

I am well aware that the Habs played an incredible defensive system; in fact from the very moment it all went down I was posting messages attacking the whole media-fed idea that Halak was single-handedly saving the Habs. The Habs were consciously allowing Washington and Pittsburgh to enjoy massive possession time and take tons of shots, as long as they didn't give up many rebounds or in-close chances. To a degree this was making a virtue of necessity (no way could we have gone toe-to-toe with those teams in terms of shots and puck possession anyway). But it was also clearly the game plan, supported by unbelievable performances from Gill and Gorges in particular. However, apart from the fact that the team was able to play this system because of its confidence that Halak could be counted on to stop 40+ shots from powerhouses night after night, we should remember that the teams of Patrick Roy and Ken Dryden also played highly effective defensive systems. We remember those guys as playoff heroes because they were able to define games and series by being unbeatable at key moments and ultimately frustrating the opposing team into submission. The fact remains that Halak turned in a dominant, series-defining performance in game 6 against Washington and was nearly as effective against the Penguins. This is what makes him a bona fide playoff hero.

This gets to the question of his being pulled. To this, my response is 'meh.' A system where the goalie is getting shellacked with massive shots (even if they aren't from in close and from repeated rebounds) is one that almost guarantees occasional blow-outs. More importantly, it's not about whether you were pulled here and there. It's about whether your overall performance was crucial to defining a series. Halak's performance meets this standard for the first two rounds.

Off the top of my head, I'd say that Halak's playoff performance ranks behind those of Roy of 86 or 93, Dryden of 71, and Penney of 84, but arguably ahead of most other Habs' goalie playoff performances in the expansion era. It ranks way behind the Roy and Dryden achievements because he only went two rounds. (No question, his play against Philly was middling at best - much like Price's play in three of his four playoff series). Although Steve Penney also only went two rounds, his performance ranks ahead of Halak's because as incredible as Jaro's stats are, Penney's are even more jaw-dropping.

I really think that Price's defenders are falling into an argumentative trap here. You can agree that Price is or will be better than Halak; that Halak was playing over his head; that the Habs played well as a team in the playoffs; and that the Habs were right to trade Jaro - all without denying the evidence of your own eyes that Halak turned in two phenomenal rounds and was a massive, defining contributor to two gargantuan series upsets. There is no need to minimize what Halak did in the playoffs in order to defend Price.

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The thing is CC, is I have been consistant in my lack of faith in Halak the entire year, this isn't done on a whim, I've had my doubts the entire year.

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The thing is CC, is I have been consistant in my lack of faith in Halak the entire year, this isn't done on a whim, I've had my doubts the entire year.

and as far as the 2009-2010 season goes - you were wrong the entire year.

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Well, bar is wrong to say that a playoff hero is a guy who is 'the sole reason for a vcitory.' Nobody is the sole reason for playoff series victories. Everyone remembers Patrick Roy as a playoff hero, and God knows I worship at the altar of Roy, but he would not have won a damn thing without the incredible play and clutch goals of Kirk Muller, the historic hat trick by Eric Desjardins to even the series in Game 2, the crazy performances by John LeClair and Paul DiPietro. So the fact that (say) Cammy had a monster playoff doesn't mean that Halak wasn't a playoff hero.

I am well aware that the Habs played an incredible defensive system; in fact from the very moment it all went down I was posting messages attacking the whole media-fed idea that Halak was single-handedly saving the Habs. The Habs were consciously allowing Washington and Pittsburgh to enjoy massive possession time and take tons of shots, as long as they didn't give up many rebounds or in-close chances. To a degree this was making a virtue of necessity (no way could we have gone toe-to-toe with those teams in terms of shots and puck possession anyway). But it was also clearly the game plan, supported by unbelievable performances from Gill and Gorges in particular. However, apart from the fact that the team was able to play this system because of its confidence that Halak could be counted on to stop 40+ shots from powerhouses night after night, we should remember that the teams of Patrick Roy and Ken Dryden also played highly effective defensive systems. We remember those guys as playoff heroes because they were able to define games and series by being unbeatable at key moments and ultimately frustrating the opposing team into submission. The fact remains that Halak turned in a dominant, series-defining performance in game 6 against Washington and was nearly as effective against the Penguins. This is what makes him a bona fide playoff hero.

This gets to the question of his being pulled. To this, my response is 'meh.' A system where the goalie is getting shellacked with massive shots (even if they aren't from in close and from repeated rebounds) is one that almost guarantees occasional blow-outs. More importantly, it's not about whether you were pulled here and there. It's about whether your overall performance was crucial to defining a series. Halak's performance meets this standard for the first two rounds.

Off the top of my head, I'd say that Halak's playoff performance ranks behind those of Roy of 86 or 93, Dryden of 71, and Penney of 84, but arguably ahead of most other Habs' goalie playoff performances in the expansion era. It ranks way behind the Roy and Dryden achievements because he only went two rounds. (No question, his play against Philly was middling at best - much like Price's play in three of his four playoff series). Although Steve Penney also only went two rounds, his performance ranks ahead of Halak's because as incredible as Jaro's stats are, Penney's are even more jaw-dropping.

I really think that Price's defenders are falling into an argumentative trap here. You can agree that Price is or will be better than Halak; that Halak was playing over his head; that the Habs played well as a team in the playoffs; and that the Habs were right to trade Jaro - all without denying the evidence of your own eyes that Halak turned in two phenomenal rounds and was a massive, defining contributor to two gargantuan series upsets. There is no need to minimize what Halak did in the playoffs in order to defend Price.

Dryden also had a couple of stinker games in 71, and after being done 2-0 to the Nordiques, fans were wanting a goaltending change to red light racicot. Lets also not forget in 86, the habs defence included robinson, Green, Ludwig, Chelios - much better core then the guys they had this year. Defensively, they had MacPhee, Skrudland and Carbo. along with Gainey. The offense included Smith, Naslund, Walter and a rookie Lemieux who scored clutch goals and considering the OT winners, was much more clutch then Cammy this year. In 93, as you've stated, they had an offense that included Muller, Damphouse, Bellows and a very clutch Leclair who was giving a glimpse of being the dominant power forwared he would become after the brutal trade to Philly. I loved Roy, but he had a MUCH better supporting cast then Halak had this year.

As great as Roy was, in 89', he seemed afraid of facing Macinnis's slapshot. That and Burn's poor coaching decision (which ultimately led to the brutal Lemieux for Sylvie Turgeon trade) and Doug Gilmour cost the habs the 89 cup.

Edited by hab29RETIRED

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Haha I'm sorry, I wont have an opinion anymore...anytime I want to make a comment about a player, I'll just ask you and you can tell me how I feel.

My lack of faith was proven in the Philly series, so it seems like I am vindicated in my opinion after all.

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Dryden also had a couple of stinker games in 71, and after being done 2-0 to the Nordiques, fans were wanting a goaltending change to red light racicot. Lets also not forget in 86, the habs defence included robinson, Green, Ludwig, Chelios - much better core then the guys they had this year. Defensively, they had MacPhee, Skrudland and Carbo. along with Gainey. The offense included Smith, Naslund, Walter and a rookie Lemieux who scored clutch goals and considering the OT winners, was much more clutch then Cammy this year. In 93, as you've stated, they had an offense that included Muller, Damphouse, Bellows and a very clutch Leclair who was giving a glimpse of being the dominant power forwared he would become after the brutal trade to Philly. I loved Roy, but he had a MUCH better supporting cast then Halak had this year.

As great as Roy was, in 89', he seemed afraid of facing Macinnis's slapshot. That and Burn's poor coaching decision (which ultimately led to the brutal Lemieux for Sylvie Turgeon trade) and Doug Gilmour cost the habs the 89 cup.

You throw down big names and seem to think that proves their worth, and at the same you imply it makes a virtual no-name (Halak) a playoff hero. If Halak can rise up in the playoffs why can't anyone else?

Remember Spacek in game one against Ovy? He played ridiculous defense against him and held him without a shot all game (including OT). Remember how Hal Gill held Crosby without a goal or an even strength point in all six games they went head to head? Remember when Gorges was paired with a rookie on the top pairing against Pit with no Gill, no Markov and a hobbled Spacek and he performed beautifully? Remember how Cammy scored 12 goals in the first 14 playoff games, and how he lead the league despite going out in the third round?

Roy may have had a lot of future all-stars, but playoff time is when the name on the back doesn't matter. The difference maker is the one who steps up.

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I seem to remember during the playoffs, quite a few fans were commenting on how the media was overstating the "heroism" of Halak, and being slightly miffed that the rest of the team wasn't getting credit. I guess more people bought into the media hype (posthumously) than I thought.

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Good old selective memory, a staple of Habs fans. Saying that Halak didn't keep that team in the playoffs is like saying water isn't wet. It's just something you can't argue.

Edited by ForumGhost

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It's not selective memory when the people talking about Halak not being the main reason for the wins now are the SAME people who brought them up when it happened. I claim that the playoff run was a house of cards...without one of the main factors it'd all come down: Halaks play, the overall team D, Cammy lighting it up, the PK.

You can argue that Halak was the sole reason for the habs success, I am tired of people making this remark...because WE HAVE argued it. This is a discussion board, not a comment, if you can't argue your point that Halak didn't keep the team in the playoffs, actually make counter points, you acting like this is a well known fact when it isn't doesn't bring anything to the table.

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You throw down big names and seem to think that proves their worth, and at the same you imply it makes a virtual no-name (Halak) a playoff hero. If Halak can rise up in the playoffs why can't anyone else?

Remember Spacek in game one against Ovy? He played ridiculous defense against him and held him without a shot all game (including OT). Remember how Hal Gill held Crosby without a goal or an even strength point in all six games they went head to head? Remember when Gorges was paired with a rookie on the top pairing against Pit with no Gill, no Markov and a hobbled Spacek and he performed beautifully? Remember how Cammy scored 12 goals in the first 14 playoff games, and how he lead the league despite going out in the third round?

Roy may have had a lot of future all-stars, but playoff time is when the name on the back doesn't matter. The difference maker is the one who steps up.

So you are saying no one else stepped up in 86 and 93???? Lemieux and Smith were huge in 86'. Skrudland and McPhee shutdown key offensive players and scored timely goals in 86 as well. In 93', Muller, Leclair and Desjardins also "stepped up".

I'm not saying that there weren't other key contributers in this year's playoffs for the habs. I'm just pointing out that 86' and 93' were not just Roy standing on his head - just as this year there it wasn't just Halak. That being said, that doesn't mean that Halak wasn't the main hero for the habs in this year's playoffs. Just as Roy was the main guy in 86 and 93. In 71' the pocket rocket was the game 7 hero against the hawks, Beliveau was the big in a couple of ames, but Dryden was the main story. Roy's signature game was the overtime victory against the rangers in 86. Halak was clutch in two games against the caps and two against the pens.

Some of the posters here seem to suggest you could have had Leighton in net and the habs still would have beat the caps and pens.

Edited by hab29RETIRED

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It's not selective memory when the people talking about Halak not being the main reason for the wins now are the SAME people who brought them up when it happened. I claim that the playoff run was a house of cards...without one of the main factors it'd all come down: Halaks play, the overall team D, Cammy lighting it up, the PK.

You can argue that Halak was the sole reason for the habs success, I am tired of people making this remark...because WE HAVE argued it. This is a discussion board, not a comment, if you can't argue your point that Halak didn't keep the team in the playoffs, actually make counter points, you acting like this is a well known fact when it isn't doesn't bring anything to the table.

You can say the same thing about 86 and 93. If Lemieux wasn't clutch in OT in 86, no cup for the habs. If Leclair, Muller and Desjardins didn't score key goals in 93' again, the habs may have been done. Roy was the main guy those years with support from guys that stepped up and were clutch, just as halak was the main man, with others stepping up at different times. You seem to have a hard on for Price and can't accept that Halak out played him this year and was clutch in key situations. To also suggest that Price stole a playoff series two years ago is laughable as well, as the win against the bruins, Price stunk for two games and was a key contributer for two games and definitely did not steal the series.

Edited by hab29RETIRED

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I can turn your argument around, some posters think that the habs would have been fine without Gil and Gorges breaking their bodies blocking shots or the PK stopping 26 of 27 PP against the Caps.

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I can turn your argument around, some posters think that the habs would have been fine without Gil and Gorges breaking their bodies blocking shots or the PK stopping 26 of 27 PP against the Caps.

How good was the PK with Price in net?? How many wins did we get with Gill and Gorges throwing them in front of shots with Price in net??

Edited by hab29RETIRED

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