JCPetit Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 It's been only two games, but my opinion is that Desharnais' inclusion in the lineup is a plus for the team. He is small, but he plays with a big heart. Let's give him some time and he'll find his wingers. That will give us three good lines. Next move is to find a spot for Eller. I see him with Desharnais and Pouliot. IMO Darche is useful but should not play higher than the 4th line. Pyatt should be the one to sit most of the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 It's been only two games, but my opinion is that Desharnais' inclusion in the lineup is a plus for the team. He is small, but he plays with a big heart. Let's give him some time and he'll find his wingers. That will give us three good lines. Next move is to find a spot for Eller. I see him with Desharnais and Pouliot. IMO Darche is useful but should not play higher than the 4th line. Pyatt should be the one to sit most of the games. Ahhh Eller Eller... Yes Ellie should be there on 3rd, and Darche on 4th or wherever JM wants to put him Pyatt sits only if we can reduce the number of stupid penalties, if we are still playing 10 min a game short handed JM will have to play Pyatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I love what Bobby Dollas said on local radio today. For those who don't know, he has an hour on fridays. Anyway I find him actually refreshing, he speaks his mind. He said you can't call up 5'5 Desaharnais, and expect him to fit into Martin's grinding, defence first system, it simply doesn't work. Incidentally, he also said with Gorges hurt, PK should just play his game, and not worry about being benched, because he can't be benched! It was radio gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I love what Bobby Dollas said on local radio today. For those who don't know, he has an hour on fridays. Anyway I find him actually refreshing, he speaks his mind. He said you can't call up 5'5 Desaharnais, and expect him to fit into Martin's grinding, defence first system, it simply doesn't work. Incidentally, he also said with Gorges hurt, PK should just play his game, and not worry about being benched, because he can't be benched! It was radio gold. So in other words, ignore the coach, do what you want out there? For someone who played for a long time in the NHL (assuming it's the same guy), he should know better, that's a terrible message to send. Any D can be benched, there still are 7 d-men on the roster. I agree on Desharnais somewhat, though the term 'grinding system' may be overselling things some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't see why small players can't fit into a defensively responsible system. It's like Desharnais himself says - he's not going to muscle guys off the puck, so he has to be intelligent. If his skills are good and he plays a game of above-average vision, positioning, and on-ice smarts - and if he listens to the coaches - then he has a chance to stick. Martin has proven over and over that he will reward players who listen, commit to the system, and can be relied on to deliver. It's up to Desharnais to realize that and respond. The illusion lies in confusing Martin with Pat Burns. Burns had a big, strong team that did indeed grind opponents into submission. JM's model seems to me to be fundamentally about puck support and intelligence. So I'm not quite so sure that Desharnais has to be thrown under the bus before he's even begun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 So in other words, ignore the coach, do what you want out there? For someone who played for a long time in the NHL (assuming it's the same guy), he should know better, that's a terrible message to send. Any D can be benched, there still are 7 d-men on the roster. I agree on Desharnais somewhat, though the term 'grinding system' may be overselling things some. I'm not with you on that. First of all, it was a little tongue-in-cheek. Secondly, the terrible message is the one Martin has sent PK. Dollas gave a little insight into the attitude in dressing rooms. Not an opinion delivered from someones basement, like this website is full of. PK has played 16-17 years with the same style, and now he's being asked to change, and his game has suffered for it. I'll take Bobby Dollas any day over a blowhard like Darren Dreger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I'm not with you on that. First of all, it was a little tongue-in-cheek. Secondly, the terrible message is the one Martin has sent PK. Dollas gave a little insight into the attitude in dressing rooms. Not an opinion delivered from someones basement, like this website is full of. PK has played 16-17 years with the same style, and now he's being asked to change, and his game has suffered for it. I'll take Bobby Dollas any day over a blowhard like Darren Dreger. Without having heard it, I can't speak to the context of it, the fact the statement was made tongue-in-cheek is better though. But what's wrong with a coach sitting down a rookie if he's not listening to direction, amongst the off-ice issues that have been documented as well? That's not a bad message, that's the right one. No one is above the team. If Subban has been doing that for 16-17 years, I'd be worried. I'll take short-term pain (Subban's current struggles) for long-term gain, which is what Martin is striving for. Correct the deficiencies in his game, tighten the leash until he does. When he does, then there will be more confidence for Martin to use Subban "the proper way" and for Subban to play without fear of being benched. Until that happens, keep disciplining him until he listens. No one player, even Subban, is above coaching, and I'll trust the wisdom of a coach over an exuberant rookie. (Better stop before I completely derail this Desharnais thread... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I love what Bobby Dollas said on local radio today. For those who don't know, he has an hour on fridays. Anyway I find him actually refreshing, he speaks his mind. He said you can't call up 5'5 Desaharnais, and expect him to fit into Martin's grinding, defence first system, it simply doesn't work. Incidentally, he also said with Gorges hurt, PK should just play his game, and not worry about being benched, because he can't be benched! It was radio gold. Gionta worked in Jersey. I agree that Subban should not worry about being benched but he should still listen to his coach. If you'll take Dollas over Dreger, I'll take Martin over Dollas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Gionta worked in Jersey. I agree that Subban should not worry about being benched but he should still listen to his coach. If you'll take Dollas over Dreger, I'll take Martin over Dollas. I see you're trying to be clever with the Dollas for Martin trade. I think the coach went too far, and I guess you don't. Edited January 9, 2011 by Habsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I see you're trying to be clever with the Dollas for Martin trade. I think the coach went too far, and I guess you don't. How am I trying to be clever? What trade? I'm saying that I consider Jacques Martin more of an authority than Bobby Dollas, who I've never heard of, just as you said you respect Dollas's opinion more than Dreger's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 How am I trying to be clever? What trade? I'm saying that I consider Jacques Martin more of an authority than Bobby Dollas, who I've never heard of, just as you said you respect Dollas's opinion more than Dreger's. You've never heard of Bobby Dollas? Ok, forget it. The trade is what you suggested. If I take Dollas over Dreger, you'll take Martin over Dollas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 You've never heard of Bobby Dollas? Ok, forget it. The trade is what you suggested. If I take Dollas over Dreger, you'll take Martin over Dollas. Are we speaking the same language? All I'm saying is I don't agree that Subban should ignore the coach and I can't believe an ex-player is suggesting that he should. All the ex-NHL analysts out there are just proving how little NHL experience is actually worth when it comes to discussing hockey. I'll take a coach's advice over a player's any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Are we speaking the same language? All I'm saying is I don't agree that Subban should ignore the coach and I can't believe an ex-player is suggesting that he should. All the ex-NHL analysts out there are just proving how little NHL experience is actually worth when it comes to discussing hockey. I'll take a coach's advice over a player's any day. You didn't read what I said. It was tongue in cheek by Dollas. You can't believe it? He's another person who seems to believe the coach went to far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 You didn't read what I said. It was tongue in cheek by Dollas. You can't believe it? He's another person who seems to believe the coach went to far. Maybe when he benched Subban for 3 games, he did. But I don't believe that he's mishandling Subban. He got 25 minutes last game. PK's one guy that can't complain that he isn't given plenty of opportunity to prove himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Maybe when he benched Subban for 3 games, he did. But I don't believe that he's mishandling Subban. He got 25 minutes last game. PK's one guy that can't complain that he isn't given plenty of opportunity to prove himself. I agree with you on that BTH, I usually do. I felt he played a strong game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Dollas isn't a nobody, he did play 646 NHL games and a whack of minor league ones so he has something to contribute to the conversation. That said, I'll trust Martin over him for his coaching experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Dollas isn't a nobody, he did play 646 NHL games and a whack of minor league ones so he has something to contribute to the conversation. That said, I'll trust Martin over him for his coaching experience. NHL experience is helpful but it depends on the issue. The (supposedly tongue in cheek) statement about Subban isn't really one that requires personal experience to comment on. If Dollas was talking about the state of an NHL dressing room or about how to come out of a slump or about the importance of character players on weak teams, I would value his opinion more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronthab Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Without knowing much of anything, we'll never be in a position to 'feel' what the situation is on the bench, at practice and in the league as a coach does. We have oodles of fun second guessing situations but a lot of it necessarily amounts to stabs in the dark. I wasn't thrilled when JM was announced, probably because I don't know a damned thing about coaching any team, including coaching the kids I coached. I really liked the incredible team effort last year and the wonderful cohesive start to this year. That to me says personnel and coaching respect. Getting picked by Bob Gainey is a pretty good starting point with me. I am very pleased that JM has the cohones to take our Precocious Kid and help to shape and mould his excellent heart and talent as a coach should. Coaches have limited tools avaiable. More critical awareness can only help PK grow. No one , including JM fails to see the spirit and talent. Go JM go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Without knowing much of anything, we'll never be in a position to 'feel' what the situation is on the bench, at practice and in the league as a coach does. We have oodles of fun second guessing situations but a lot of it necessarily amounts to stabs in the dark. I wasn't thrilled when JM was announced, probably because I don't know a damned thing about coaching any team, including coaching the kids I coached. I really liked the incredible team effort last year and the wonderful cohesive start to this year. That to me says personnel and coaching respect. Getting picked by Bob Gainey is a pretty good starting point with me. I am very pleased that JM has the cohones to take our Precocious Kid and help to shape and mould his excellent heart and talent as a coach should. Coaches have limited tools avaiable. More critical awareness can only help PK grow. No one , including JM fails to see the spirit and talent. Go JM go. I'd agree with that part Edited January 10, 2011 by hab29RETIRED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Without knowing much of anything, we'll never be in a position to 'feel' what the situation is on the bench, at practice and in the league as a coach does. We have oodles of fun second guessing situations but a lot of it necessarily amounts to stabs in the dark. I wasn't thrilled when JM was announced, probably because I don't know a damned thing about coaching any team, including coaching the kids I coached. I really liked the incredible team effort last year and the wonderful cohesive start to this year. That to me says personnel and coaching respect. Getting picked by Bob Gainey is a pretty good starting point with me. I am very pleased that JM has the cohones to take our Precocious Kid and help to shape and mould his excellent heart and talent as a coach should. Coaches have limited tools avaiable. More critical awareness can only help PK grow. No one , including JM fails to see the spirit and talent. Go JM go. Not until we get Habs reality tv show... lol On a serious note... Boyd is still scoring back in hamilton without Deshy Edited January 10, 2011 by CoRvInA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Not until we get Habs reality tv show... lol On a serious note... Boyd is still scoring back in hamilton without Deshy I do find it weird no one picked him up on waivers. Boyd was a proven NHLer in a situation that didn't fit. I could see the Habs calling up Boyd at season's end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I do find it weird no one picked him up on waivers. Boyd was a proven NHLer in a situation that didn't fit. I could see the Habs calling up Boyd at season's end. And put him through re-entry? At year's end, anyone could simply claim him to make sure he wouldn't help the Habs. Heck, Montreal did it ages ago going the other way (when someone was on the way down). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Ugh, are we still talking about JM? Yawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 And put him through re-entry? At year's end, anyone could simply claim him to make sure he wouldn't help the Habs. Heck, Montreal did it ages ago going the other way (when someone was on the way down). It's happened at least twice post-lockout that a player was put through re-entry at season's end and no one claimed the guy, even the opposing team who could've simply just done it to weaken the opponent. I think there's a gentlemen's agreement about the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I met a man the other night who claims to have played with Bruce Boudreau back in his early years He now coaches youngsters on his time off... This fella is not the tallest dude out there but built like a fridge... actually reminds me of Bruce Boudreau as a matter of fact. Anywho, he tells me that when it comes to selecting players and making cuts he starts like this... You tall kids, come this way your automatically in, the rest of you 3 footers go and fight and kill yourselves to make the team. Its a sad reality but it shows you why you can count on these small ones to have guts determination and most of all MOTIVATION this sport like anything else glorious in life starts up there in the nut. I for one am totally into getting all these small chip on yer shoulders midgets! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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