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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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2-7...hoo boy, it ain't pretty.

I thought it might be useful to consolidate our scattered rants about The Slump here. What I'm mostly interested in is explanations. How does a team go from looking great to being unable to beat anyone? Here's a few thoughts culled from other threads, along with some of my own. Feel free to add your own.

1. The good start was a mirage, conjured up by great play from Price. With Price now being merely good, the team is exposed (I don't accept this myself; the team I watched in October-November was playing a strong, intelligent system, with commitment).

2. The System is too demanding to be sustainable over 82 games. A letdown was inevitable.

3. Slumps happen. They'll get it back. Heck, the first period against TB is the glimmer of an impending turnaround. There is nothing to explain, therefore.

4. Markov hurt + Subban loses his mojo + assorted minor injuries (Gorges) = major crisis on the blueline, followed by a major slump. This seems to me to be the simplest, most obvious explanation - albeit one that seems to be glaringly underplayed in commentaries. If this theory is right, then the addition of the Wiz, healing of Gorges, and the gradual recovery of Subban will likely see us picking up steam pretty soon. I tend toward this view.

5. Something has happened to the team chemistry. I recall that last season we had reports of an internal battle among the players over whether to play JM's (highly successful) system. They wisely rallied around the coach. But these sorts of internal settlements aren't always stable; could be that JM has lost some key support in the dressing room. Or perhaps someone new element like Subban, with his reportedly questionable behaviour, has magnified tensions. Brian raised the mutiny idea in his 'Final Thoughts' tonight.

5 is the scenario that worries me the most. I will say that this team right now reminds me of the 2009 team and last season's club for significant stretches; most of our best players are playing as if they're completely out of it. (Heck, Cammy and Gomer have seemed out of sorts all season). Often when I've seen this in the past, it's a sign of a team with internal problems. I sure hope that's not the case, because I believe that the only way this team will excel is if it follows the model of last spring/this fall.

Anyway, let's hear it... :huh:

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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2-7...hoo boy, it ain't pretty.

I thought it might be useful to consolidate our scattered rants about The Slump here. What I'm mostly interested in is explanations. How does a team go from looking great to being unable to beat anyone? Here's a few thoughts culled from other threads, along with some of my own. Feel free to add your own.

1. The good start was a mirage, conjured up by great play from Price. With Price now being merely good, the team is exposed (I don't accept this myself; the team I watched in October-November was playing a strong, intelligent system, with commitment).

2. The System is too demanding to be sustainable over 82 games. A letdown was inevitable.

3. Slumps happen. They'll get it back. Heck, the first period against TB is the glimmer of an impending turnaround. There is nothing to explain, therefore.

4. Markov hurt + Subban loses his mojo + assorted minor injuries (Gorges) = major crisis on the blueline, followed by a major slump. This seems to me to be the simplest, most obvious explanation - albeit one that seems to be glaringly underplayed in commentaries. If this theory is right, then the addition of the Wiz, healing of Gorges, and the gradual recovery of Subban will likely see us picking up steam pretty soon. I tend toward this view.

5. Something has happened to the team chemistry. I recall that last season we had reports of an internal battle among the players over whether to play JM's (highly successful) system. They wisely rallied around the coach. But these sorts of internal settlements aren't always stable; could be that JM has lost some key support in the dressing room. Or perhaps someone new element like Subban, with his reportedly questionable behaviour, has magnified tensions. Brian raised the mutiny idea in his 'Final Thoughts' tonight.

5 is the scenario that worries me the most. I will say that this team right now reminds me of the 2009 team and last season's club for significant stretches; most of our best players are playing as if they're completely out of it. (Heck, Cammy and Gomer have seemed out of sorts all season). Often when I've seen this in the past, it's a sign of a team with internal problems. I sure hope that's not the case, because I believe that the only way this team will excel is if it follows the model of last spring/this fall.

Anyway, let's hear it... :huh:

I'm a believer in #1. At the start of the season I said this is a .500 team and I haven't seen anything to change my opinion. As for the other points, here's my take:

2. Yes the system is unsustainable - really beacause I don't call it a system to requires the goalie to stand on his head and steal games. WHen the goalie is just good, the habs lose, when the goalie is excelent the habs have a chance and when the goalie is OUTSTANDING, the habs win. That is not a system. The parallel between the strong start and last season's playoffs was the same. The goalie stands on his head, the team wins. The shots have been done, yes, but the scoring chances against were still plentiful during the win streak. The system Martin supposedly is endorsing is not suitable to the horses he has. This is a non-physical fast skating team built for an aggressive forecheck. There are no Green's, Ludwig's, Skrudland's, McPhee's or Keane's that can play the style Martin wants. The so called "big guys" they have are not physical. Moen is useless at $1.5M. he doesn't hit, doesn't hit or scare anyone and is a ripoff at $1.5M. Gill is a overgrown marshmellow who should not get more then 3-4 minutes a game outside penalty killing duties. he is a pylon that can block shots, but can't pass or shoot. If a system existed, for the style Martin supposedly wants to play, the team would have to be disciplined and the leadership group would be the one's following the system. But the leadership core and veterns are the biggest culprits for taking stupid lazy penalties (Moen, Cammy, Gill, Gomez, Spacek and Hamrlik), yet Martin ionly tries to hold the inexperienced rookies or usual scapegoats (AK46) accountable. Martin is suited for coaching a team that Darryl Sutter built and living in Calgary, post-lockout that is a lousy style to try and play.

3. Yes there in a slump, but even prior to this current slump, for the most part they have been a win one lose one team. Earlier success against Pittsburgh and Philly were before those teams got their act together and in the case of Pittsburgh, started getting some decent goaltending. At best this is a .500 team. I said at the start of the season they will be battling for #6 to #10 and nothing has changed my opinion - even during the winning.

4. They were winning without Markov, even before Markov went down for the season. As for Subban, I put the blame squarely on Martin for how Subban has been handled and who he has been paired with. Subban for the most part has been playing like the rest of the habs young players - afraid to make a mistake. The only difference, is that his natural exhobarance has him still taking chances. He needs a mentor. The habs should go after another vetern d-man to specifically be paired with and mentor Subban. Larry Robinson should have been brought in as an Assistant to counteract the damage Martin was sure to do. I also blame the veterns on this team for not being more vocal when a piece of shit like Richard talks about respect - or for that matter any player who wears a Philly uniform. If players on this team resent Subban's chattiness or attention, then they deserve to lose. Any team that can put up with a useless inconsistent shit like Lapierre and have a problem with Subban who handles himself much more like a professional doesn't deserve to have a guy like Subban. When they were winning, Subban was playing better, but he wasn't contributing a lot to the offense and as, i've already said earlier, they didn't have Markov for the first month or so anyways. When this team was winning at a high clip, It had a lot more to do with who they were playing, where those teams were at and Price standing on his head.

5. Even before the road stand, I had said, I see a repeat of 2008-2009. This team has obviously tuned Martin out, which doesn't surprise me, since he is ill suited to coach it. IF i was a rookie/young player, i'd be pissed at how the veterns get a free pass, and would feel like if i don't walk the Martin goose step, I'm going to be in the pressbox. I think Martin would be perfect to coach a Darryl Sutter team - and you know how well they would have done. The only saving grace Montreal has opposed to Darryl Sutter's flames , is that at least we have the offensive tools to be much more offensive then we are - if they aren't being anchored down by Martin's style and we ahve a good stable of kids in the minors or junior. The issue we share with Calgary is the aging aging and soft defense (ie. Hamrlik/Spacek/Gill vs. Reghyr/Staios/Sarich). Calgary has Giorodano and Bouwmeester, but Bouwmeester has never won at ANY level (NHL or Junior) and has NEVER been in the NHL playoffs. We at least have Subban if handled correctly is capable of becoming a very special Norris caliber defensemen and Weber who can become a Striet type dman.

They made the wrong coaching decision in the summer and now its coming back to haunt them, because unlike most other teams, the habs chances of a mid-season coaching change are hampred becuase of the limitations placed by the damn language issue. If PG has some real balls, he would say screw the french media and hire the best available coach. I had actually hoped the Habs would have hired Peter Lavlioette before Philly snagged him and then hoped Boucher would be brought in, but its too late for that. They can't bring in Muller, because, assistants rarely do well when they are promoted from within.

While I hope Martin gets canned, he probably won't. What I do hope is that they send a lot of the kids down now to get them away from the damage Martin will do to their development. Pouliot and Eller look completely lost and they aren't going to improve playing with scrubs like Darche or Moen.

Edited by hab29RETIRED

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Wow - kind of depressing reading.

I have never played the game so would not assume to know as much as most of you on this board, but in my opinion the young guys eg subban, eller, Weber etc seem to be getting worse, not better, which is not a good thing. I could handle a slump year if it was building for a cup run, but this does not seem to be happening at the moment.

My questions are:

1. Is JM a good coach who is just having his team go through a bad patch like Washington did?

2. Is he an average coach who has lost the team?

And if the answer to number 2 is yes should he be replaced and if so who with? Given that Boucher and Laviolette are already taken.

Hope these questions are not too dumb, but its not that much fun following the habs at the moment. The only good thing is nobody here in NZ folllows hockey so can still wear my habs jersey without too much taunting lol.

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I agree with The C. C. and tend to subscribe to theory #4 (plus a major loss of confidence in many players).

Theory #1 (our early success was purely a product of Price overachieving) is clearly wrong in my opinion. Price is playing just about as well now as he did in October and November.

In October/November we were were giving up only 3 or 4 quality scoring chances per game. Now that number is up to 10 or more.

Price is still stopping 60% of those chances. In Oct/Nov we went whole periods without making any serious defensive errors. Now we commonly see 2 or 3 errors within 40 seconds.

I also dismiss theory #2 (the system is unsustainable). How is a system sustainable for 2 months but not for 6?

I pray #3 (just a slump) is correct. In the past few years, a number of top teams (Pittsburgh, Philly, Washington) have gone into 10 or 20 game tailspins and then recovered.

Theory #5 (a repeat of the 2009 collapse) also worries me. I never really came to a satisfying explanation for that collapse - my best guess was to attribute it to Carbonneau.

I expect we'll lose today - probably Vokoun will be unbeatable (if he even needs to be). But I am hopeful that a return to home games and the addition of Wiz will lead to a recovery.

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No worries.. I see new beginnings in the new year. And if the new year does not bring a change in luck. Look for heads to roll. We are long over due for a change in the way things are done.

Needless to say for many of us who have seen this before, we all expected this Dec and late Dec slump... (and dont forget the all-star game is coming... oh joy! remember last year. ) its a challenging part of our schedule aways has been. The questions is can we get out of it and put a few wins together. Its a critical test of character for our current version of the habs.... no excuses can then change their fortunes....

If the answer is NO then the door will open it has to !

If the answer is YES then we keep limping on till the next slump and if we are out of the playoffs then heads will roll !

On the bright side maybe we can get ride of Gomez! And give our kids a chance to play and make mistakes...

Yes, I'm fed up with our vets play of late, but I'm specially pissed at how we treat our kids who should either be left to develop in Hamilton or be given a chance to play and learn with the big club...

after my little rant... this bit of news hit the web.

" Canadiens Recall Desharnais From Minors " Brilliant. now let him play with Patches..

" Habs Acquire Festerling From Ducks " for Laps... Wow! this is a surprise.

GO HABS GO!

Edited by Chips

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Is it possible that the Habs just suck on the road for some reason?

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Is it possible that the Habs just suck on the road for some reason?

It's the opposite of last year's playoffs, where the Habs were better on the road than at home. It's been well documented though that Plekanec struggles mightily on the road; I'm sure that if I looked at some of the other players, the same could be said. The team seems to feed off the crowd's energy, that's for sure.

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Ugh another loss doesn't help things at all... Almost half the season is done so they'd better pick things up quickly!

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They just aren't very good. Price stood pn his head the 30 games or so and JM burned him out. Thye looked better then they are due to Price's hot start.

1. Defensivlely they a pathetic. They are soft, incredibly slow, the can't move the puck out of the zone effectively which kills the offense. Wisneiski comes in and is already the most complete Dman the habs have. He is a number 4 on most other good teams. Subban will be great, but he is a rookie. I'm not sure sure what all the hoopla is on Weber, he is ok but not a difference maker. Gill, Gorges, Hamrlik and Spacek play way too many important minutes to be effective.

2. The offense is poor at best. They pass when they should shoot, they don't drive the net and draw penalties. I saw Pouliot have a clear shot to the net twice in the last 2 games and he decided to do a weird spinn move that resulted in a turnover. Pleks line should not be playing against the other teams best, they can't score that way.

3. They have no real shut down line. They need one andlet the offensive guys play offense.

4. They need more size and grit. It kills then in the defensive zone, winning battles, etc.

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In my opinion JM is a great and experienced coach. Critisizing decisions he makes because they haven't panned out is always the easy thing to do. What about Boudreau in washington or McLean in new jersey do we label them as average or poor coaches? I'm confident that our coach is capable of leading this team to vicory but he alone is not able without the support of his team. Is it the coaches fault that Moen is allergic to the boards? Is the coach to blame for the scoring drought that Cammellerri is having? Who's the blame for the slow start of Gomez? What about AK46 what the hell is his problem? And let's not get into Lapierre,Pyatt and a few others. Players have it too well and they always have excuses regarding their performance. When there is only one or two players to deal with it can always be solved but when there a handful too many players it's a F****** mess. In this new NHL the players have the power to plot the firing of any coach. Just my opinion! :angry:

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In my opinion JM is a great and experienced coach. Critisizing decisions he makes because they haven't panned out is always the easy thing to do. What about Boudreau in washington or McLean in new jersey do we label them as average or poor coaches? I'm confident that our coach is capable of leading this team to vicory but he alone is not able without the support of his team. Is it the coaches fault that Moen is allergic to the boards? Is the coach to blame for the scoring drought that Cammellerri is having? Who's the blame for the slow start of Gomez? What about AK46 what the hell is his problem? And let's not get into Lapierre,Pyatt and a few others. Players have it too well and they always have excuses regarding their performance. When there is only one or two players to deal with it can always be solved but when there a handful too many players it's a F****** mess. In this new NHL the players have the power to plot the firing of any coach. Just my opinion! :angry:

The hardest thing for me to do is gauge when a coach is to blame/praise and when it is the players. If Moen starts checking, Cammalleri starts scoring and AK plays as well as he did in the first 10 games will it be okay to praise Martin for getting these things to happen?

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The hardest thing for me to do is gauge when a coach is to blame/praise and when it is the players. If Moen starts checking, Cammalleri starts scoring and AK plays as well as he did in the first 10 games will it be okay to praise Martin for getting these things to happen?

The coach is always in part accountable for blame/praise but only in part. This is a team and everyone must be held accountable not just the coach. It frustrating when players collectively fail to show up or play at their potential and the coach loses his job. I really like what Pierre Gautier did with Lapierre who prefered not to stay in montreal, he sent him packing. So I wish that Pierre continues to get rid of these morons that make our hockey entertainment bitter and sour to watch. Enough Mr. Nice Guy and bring out the whip. Just my opinion!

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2-7...hoo boy, it ain't pretty.

I thought it might be useful to consolidate our scattered rants about The Slump here. What I'm mostly interested in is explanations. How does a team go from looking great to being unable to beat anyone? Here's a few thoughts culled from other threads, along with some of my own. Feel free to add your own.

1. The good start was a mirage, conjured up by great play from Price. With Price now being merely good, the team is exposed (I don't accept this myself; the team I watched in October-November was playing a strong, intelligent system, with commitment).

2. The System is too demanding to be sustainable over 82 games. A letdown was inevitable.

3. Slumps happen. They'll get it back. Heck, the first period against TB is the glimmer of an impending turnaround. There is nothing to explain, therefore.

4. Markov hurt + Subban loses his mojo + assorted minor injuries (Gorges) = major crisis on the blueline, followed by a major slump. This seems to me to be the simplest, most obvious explanation - albeit one that seems to be glaringly underplayed in commentaries. If this theory is right, then the addition of the Wiz, healing of Gorges, and the gradual recovery of Subban will likely see us picking up steam pretty soon. I tend toward this view.

5. Something has happened to the team chemistry. I recall that last season we had reports of an internal battle among the players over whether to play JM's (highly successful) system. They wisely rallied around the coach. But these sorts of internal settlements aren't always stable; could be that JM has lost some key support in the dressing room. Or perhaps someone new element like Subban, with his reportedly questionable behaviour, has magnified tensions. Brian raised the mutiny idea in his 'Final Thoughts' tonight.

5 is the scenario that worries me the most. I will say that this team right now reminds me of the 2009 team and last season's club for significant stretches; most of our best players are playing as if they're completely out of it. (Heck, Cammy and Gomer have seemed out of sorts all season). Often when I've seen this in the past, it's a sign of a team with internal problems. I sure hope that's not the case, because I believe that the only way this team will excel is if it follows the model of last spring/this fall.

Anyway, let's hear it... :huh:

1. There is some truth to this.

2. The system is sustainable, but even Stanley Cup Championship teams go through a funk.

- 2010 Blackhawks 2 wins in 9 games in February.

- 2009 Penguins 3 wins in 12 games in December.

- 2008 Red Wings 1 win in 11 games in Feb/March.

- 2007 Ducks 3 wins in 13 games in Dec/Jan.

3. See number 2.

4. Every team has injuries and have the ability to excel with them, but they do have to be noted when discussing any slump.

5. Any comment on team chemistry with zero substantive information is a shot in the dark. They are favourites of fans to explain the

unexplainable or to explain away the possibility of a truth they don't want to face.

Price's game has slipped. Anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves. He is not to blame for their slump, but if he was playing

at the level he was in the first 30 games the Habs wouldn't have registered a major slump. Now speculation on why his play has slumped

can move from fatigue to more defensive breakdowns to poor luck to a regular occurring slump for a goaltender. He is not as dominant

as he was and he is not ahead of the play like he was early in the season.

Add in a lack of scoring, a tough schedule and you get poor results. The problem is the reactionary nature of fans and the Montreal media.

Nobody in Montreal noticed (or cared) when the Hawks/Pens/Wings and Ducks had their nosedives, but they bounced back to win Stanley Cups.

So if elite teams can have poor stretches, why not solid teams?

Fans like to analyze the result and the score. A 3-2 win in which the Habs are outshot 48-21 is met with applause, happiness and praise

heaped on Price. A stretch in which the Habs go 5-1 and are outshot by 10 shots a game is also met with cheers, but the truth is that it is

unsustainable and we saw that first hand in the playoffs last season. Yet, when the Habs outshot their opponents on a nightly basis and

keep their opposition to 20-25 shots and lose their is a sense of doom and gloom even though that is also not likely to continue.

The key to this teams success is to forge an early lead and wait for mistakes. When they don't get that early lead, they struggle. Early in the season

they were scoring first and maintaining leads throughout the majority of the game. They have scored first 4 times during their streak and won only

1 of those games. They have also had a terrible habit of allowing a goal in the final minute of play, this has happened 6 times in their last 11 games

and almost all of them has swung the momentum of the game.

DET - Lidstrom ties the game at 1 with 2 seconds to go and nullifies a 1-0 lead.

PHI - Carter gives the Flyers a 1-0 lead

COL - Wilson ties the game at 1 after a solid road period

NYI - Grabner turns a 1-0 game heading into the 3rd and makes it a 2-0 game.

WSH - Green turns a 1-0 game into a 2-0 game.

ATL - Ladd gives the Thrashers a 3-2 lead heading into the 3rd.

These things are not going to continue to happen. The Habs have continually followed up these brutal streaks with improbable winning streaks

over the last 5-6 years. Everybody had the Habs dead and buried after the Olympic break last year with back to back losses to the Flyers.

They came out of the Olympics and went 7-1-1 with their only regulation loss being a game where the Sharks scored 2 goals in the final 10 minutes.

They almost went 4 for 4 on their western road trip.

This is a good team, not a great one. They will be fine and if they continue to play like they have over the last 2-3 games they will win more than they

lose.

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DET - Lidstrom ties the game at 1 with 2 seconds to go and nullifies a 1-0 lead.

PHI - Carter gives the Flyers a 1-0 lead

COL - Wilson ties the game at 1 after a solid road period

NYI - Grabner turns a 1-0 game heading into the 3rd and makes it a 2-0 game.

WSH - Green turns a 1-0 game into a 2-0 game.

ATL - Ladd gives the Thrashers a 3-2 lead heading into the 3rd.

There are 2 problems with that.

1. You are totally right.

2. You forgot the first one by Foligno against Ottawa on december 7th at 19:51 of the 1st period... We won the game, but still...

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There's no doubt that we as fans, have a tendancy of panicking whenever the Habs lose a few games(especially me)! However, I have to admit that they have been playing a little better over the last 2-3 games.

What really worries me is the fact that this team keeps getting smaller and smaller. The loss of lapierre is not the end of the world, but that's another 6'2" player gone and he will be replaced with another 5'6" player.

The fact that we have a small team might not have shown too much in the first 30 games of the year...but now that we are in the dog days of the season, our small stature will show more and more.

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There's no doubt that we as fans, have a tendancy of panicking whenever the Habs lose a few games(especially me)! However, I have to admit that they have been playing a little better over the last 2-3 games.

What really worries me is the fact that this team keeps getting smaller and smaller. The loss of lapierre is not the end of the world, but that's another 6'2" player gone and he will be replaced with another 5'6" player.

The fact that we have a small team might not have shown too much in the first 30 games of the year...but now that we are in the dog days of the season, our small stature will show more and more.

I don't concern myself with size. Crosby is only 5'11", but if I needed a puck I would rather have him chasing it than

Latendresse. I am concerned with compete level.

If small/competitive meets large/competitive, then we may have a problem. Seeing as I don't see this team as a contender,

but as a team building to contender, it doesn't bother me.

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I don't concern myself with size. Crosby is only 5'11", but if I needed a puck I would rather have him chasing it than

Latendresse. I am concerned with compete level.

If small/competitive meets large/competitive, then we may have a problem. Seeing as I don't see this team as a contender,

but as a team building to contender, it doesn't bother me.

I agree. That's why i wish they'd give Desharnais a real chance, to show whether or not he is a real option or not. Putting a big body like Darche is pretty useless, when he has no hands or skill to be effective there.

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Imagine if we would go get St-Louis and Nathan Gerbe for anyone else than Desharnais or Gionta. We would have the top 4 smallest players of the league I believe...

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Imagine if we would go get St-Louis and Nathan Gerbe for anyone else than Desharnais or Gionta. We would have the top 4 smallest players of the league I believe...

hell, i'd give up most of our so-called big guys for St Louis. he maybe small - but he actually DRIVES to the FRIGGIN net, which is what really infuriates me about our forwards.

Ironic how he turned out to be the best signing by TB after their cup win, as he has been the only consistent performer. As much as I'd like to have Richards on the habs, TB never got value for the $7.8M he signed for (great player - inflated contact), although he has been earning his pay in Dallas. The contract that may be the anchor that does in Tampa when its time to sign Stamkos/Hedman/More Dman, is everyone in Quebec's cousin Vinny. His ten year deal may the be worst term/Cap hit after Kovulchuk's.

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I don't concern myself with size. Crosby is only 5'11", but if I needed a puck I would rather have him chasing it than

Latendresse. I am concerned with compete level.

If small/competitive meets large/competitive, then we may have a problem. Seeing as I don't see this team as a contender,

but as a team building to contender, it doesn't bother me.

When Crosby steps on the ice, how many midgets are on the ice with him?

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When Crosby steps on the ice, how many midgets are on the ice with him?

Chris Kunitz is his most regular linemate in Pittsburgh. He's 6'0", 193 lbs. And I think he grew 2 inches when he was traded to Pittsburgh, pretty sure he was listed at 5'10" or 5'11" in Anaheim.

Crosby doesn't need big guys to win battles for him. He wins them all on his own.

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I don't concern myself with size. Crosby is only 5'11", but if I needed a puck I would rather have him chasing it than

Latendresse. I am concerned with compete level.

If small/competitive meets large/competitive, then we may have a problem. Seeing as I don't see this team as a contender,

but as a team building to contender, it doesn't bother me.

There's no doubt I'd rather have Crosby as well, but even though Crosby is only 5'11", he weighs 200 pds. He is solid on his skates.

I've said it before, I'd love to have Martin St-Louis and/or Daniel Brière with the Habs, just as long as their line mates are 6'2"/200pds and above. I love Gionta, but I wish he were better protected by his team mates. In the long run, smaller guys will get tired faster than bigger guys, cause the smaller guy has to work harder when he goes into the corners. When a guy who's 5'7"/175pds goes into the corner or tries to bodycheck a guy who's 6'3"/220pds, who do you think will win most battles in the long run? 7 times out of 10, the bigger player will come out of the corner with the puck.

The problem with the Habs is that we have too many small player (Gionta 5'7", Camms 5'9", Plex 5'10", Gomez 5'11" and now Desharnais 5'6") or big players who play small (Pouliot, Kostitsyn).

Like I said, I have no problems with Gio, Camms and Plex, but it would be nice to have some bigger bodies playing with them!

Edited by Habsfan

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There's no doubt I'd rather have Crosby as well, but even though Crosby is only 5'11", he weighs 200 pds. He is solid on his skates.

I've said it before, I'd love to have Martin St-Louis and/or Daniel Brière with the Habs, just as long as their line mates are 6'2"/200pds and above. I love Gionta, but I wish he were better protected by his team mates. In the long run, smaller guys will get tired faster than bigger guys, cause the smaller guy has to work harder when he goes into the corners. When a guy who's 5'7"/175pds goes into the corner or tries to bodycheck a guy who's 6'3"/220pds, who do you think will win most battles in the long run? 7 times out of 10, the bigger player will come out of the corner with the puck.

The problem with the Habs is that we have too many small player (Gionta 5'7", Camms 5'9", Plex 5'10", Gomez 5'11" and now Desharnais 5'6") or big players who play small (Pouliot, Kostitsyn).

Like I said, I have no problems with Gio, Camms and Plex, but it would be nice to have some bigger bodies playing with them!

Habsfan is getting what I am talking about. I have no problem with small guys. What I have a problem with is too many small guys on the same team. Crosby is a poor example of a small, because not only does he have elite skills but he is 200 lbs and has the strength of a 200 lber. Gomez is also 200 lbs but I don't think he has that strength and we know he doesn't have that skill set.

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Habsfan is getting what I am talking about. I have no problem with small guys. What I have a problem with is too many small guys on the same team. Crosby is a poor example of a small, because not only does he have elite skills but he is 200 lbs and has the strength of a 200 lber. Gomez is also 200 lbs but I don't think he has that strength and we know he doesn't have that skill set.

So is Tomas Plekanec a poor example of small?

He is 5'11" and 197 lbs. Does he have the skill set?

How about Datsyuk? Also 5'11" and 197 lbs.

The Wings won a Stanley Cup with a small skilled team. Holmstrom has a reputation as one of those

guys who goes to the net hard and does the dirty work. He is barely bigger than Datsyuk and Plekanec.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/2008.html

Is that a big team?

It is about work ethic and desire for the puck. I have seen plenty of big teams fail, I don't obsess about

the size of a player or the perception of a player. Perception is rarely reality.

Edited by Wamsley01

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In the mid-eighties I got Rob Browns autograph. The former penguin, #44. Anyway, he was listed at 5'10. I towered over him, and I'm barely 5'11. Just more stats and figures that mean zero.

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