peihabs11 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) What is Martin doing benching Pouliot, Desharnais & White for 3'rd period in Vancouver and for most of the game in Toronto they have been there best line over the last couple of weeks. And then starting Auld tonight someone needs to tell him they are in a playoff race. I think you would see a much more inspired team playing under Kirk Muller. Other then getting rid of Martin there 4 line combinations the last couple of games I like except they need a winger to play with Plekanec & Cammy. Ales Hemsky would give them a great #1 line with Gomez, Gionta & Pac's for the second line and then Desharnais, Pouliot & White for the third line & Eller, Moen & Halpern for the 4'th line. To get Hemsky we could move Kostitsyn & Weber and ask for Steve MacIntyre also, I know he can't play much & we would only dress him against certain teams lets say Boston & Philly to keep them from running around after our skilled players. Aquiring Sopel allows them to move Weber as our D would look like this Gill, Subban, Hamrlik, Sopel, Mara, Wisniewski with Picard as the 7'th man. I thought Pouliot has really started showing flashes of greatness lately & Martin takes his ice time away from him. We would also have Darche for depth up front so maybe Pyatt could also be moved at the deadline. Edited February 25, 2011 by peihabs11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 What is Martin doing benching Pouliot, Desharnais & White for 3'rd period in Vancouver and for most of the game in Toronto they have been there best line over the last couple of weeks. And then starting Auld tonight someone needs to tell him they are in a playoff race. I think you would see a much more inspired team playing under Kirk Muller. Other then getting rid of Martin there 4 line combinations the last couple of games I like except they need a winger to play with Plekanec & Cammy. Ales Hemsky would give them a great #1 line with Gomez, Gionta & Pac's for the second line and then Desharnais, Pouliot & White for the third line & Eller, Moen & Halpern for the 4'th line. To get Hemsky we could move Kostitsyn & Weber and ask for Steve MacIntyre also, I know he can't play much & we would only dress him against certain teams lets say Boston & Philly to keep them from running around after our skilled players. Aquiring Sopel allows them to move Weber as our D would look like this Gill, Subban, Hamrlik, Sopel, Mara, Wisniewski with Picard as the 7'th man. I thought Pouliot has really started showing flashes of greatness lately & Martin takes his ice time away from him. We would also have Darche for depth up front so maybe Pyatt could also be moved at the deadline. Are we back here again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Are we back here again? A loss against the Leafs is a loss against the Leafs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 So instead of taking a 1st round pick plus another high level prospect for Hemsky (which is the noted asking price), they'll just take Weber and Kostitsyn, plus we get the uber-useless goon in MacIntyre? If that was all it'd take for Hemsky, he'd have been dealt a long time ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) No better yet.....sell sell sell l!!!!!!! Start another 5 year plan !! the team sucks !!! LOL Back up goalie blows a game against the Leafs and we need to fire a coach. ROFL I think JM just proved to management that we need to address a backup before the trade deadline. Big Bad Bald Seive would be a better nic name. At the very least I hope Sanford is recalled to backuo during the playoffs, because this guy could never bail you out in a pinch. `Don`t worry we will make the playoffs and then we will turn peoples heads. Bixby says, `Relax!`` Edited February 25, 2011 by johnnyhasbeen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeahBud Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I was saying the exact same thing to a colleague this morning. If the Habs have a disastrous southern swing next week (which is very possible given the current state of affairs,) the Montreal media will lambaste Coach Martin. I can see him turning into the scapegoat. He could be out of the picture by the end of the season. In my opinion he's too old school and he's a stubborn coach. Get Kirk Muller in there as head coach. Martin is past his prime and grasping at straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) I was saying the exact same thing to a colleague this morning. If the Habs have a disastrous southern swing next week (which is very possible given the current state of affairs,) the Montreal media will lambaste Coach Martin. I can see him turning into the scapegoat. He could be out of the picture by the end of the season. In my opinion he's too old school and he's a stubborn coach. Get Kirk Muller in there as head coach. Martin is past his prime and grasping at straws. No chance. The team is performing WAAAAAY above expectations when you consider their injury problems. How many people before the season would have predicted 9 points clear of 9th place without Markov for the whole season and Gorges out for half, Gomez and Gionta at a half point per game combined and Subban as the number one defenseman and Pacioretty and Desharnies making major contributions? Perspective! Anybody blaming Martin for a poor job either dislikes him or is a reactionary who changes his mind with each win/losing streak. Edited February 25, 2011 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I think it is fair to hate the JM style of hockey. I also think it is fair to believe we could have won a few more games if he had adjusted the strategy as the game progressed... That said, I agree with Wamsley.. it is hard to argue with the results. On balance, he has wrung more points out of this beat up team then expected. As an aside, they would have at least 10 more points if the players didn't go to sleep for a period a game, which is about team leadership, not team coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I think it is fair to hate the JM style of hockey. I also think it is fair to believe we could have won a few more games if he had adjusted the strategy as the game progressed... That said, I agree with Wamsley.. it is hard to argue with the results. On balance, he has wrung more points out of this beat up team then expected. As an aside, they would have at least 10 more points if the players didn't go to sleep for a period a game, which is about team leadership, not team coaching. The problem with that is fans tend to remember mistakes but not great adjustments or line changes that lead to wins. I don't know how many times I have heard a fan complain about how JM benched (insert player here) and it cost us a win, but I don't recall many posts about how Halpern on the PP scored a big goal or double shifting Plekanec to expose a strong line matchup lead to a goal to win a game. Those who suffer from confirmation bias will search for flaws and blame Martin for failures and credit the players for success. Halak saved Martin in that game. Martin screwed up by playing Price. etc etc. The guy isn't Scotty Bowman, but who is? He is a solid NHL coach, no more, no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 The problem with that is fans tend to remember mistakes but not great adjustments or line changes that lead to wins. I don't know how many times I have heard a fan complain about how JM benched (insert player here) and it cost us a win, but I don't recall many posts about how Halpern on the PP scored a big goal or double shifting Plekanec to expose a strong line matchup lead to a goal to win a game. Those who suffer from confirmation bias will search for flaws and blame Martin for failures and credit the players for success. Halak saved Martin in that game. Martin screwed up by playing Price. etc etc. The guy isn't Scotty Bowman, but who is? He is a solid NHL coach, no more, no less. +1. This guy coaches us to within 3 games of the Finals and then gets results that surpass those predicted for us by 'experts' despite an injury-ravaged lineup, and HE DESERVES TO BE FIRED because he benched David Desharnais. Wow, there's some quality analysis. I maintain that if he didn't come across as so suffocatingly boring on TV, half the haters wouldn't be haters. It's a classic case of confusing image and substance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeahBud Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 just wait for it. I hate to be the glass half empty guy but I predict we'll be hanging on for dear life come the end of the season. Struggling to make it to overtime to eke out a single point against the Leafs to keep 8th place.. Its not JM's fault we've had a ton of injuries. But the French fans and media won't see it the way you guys do is all I'm saying.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) just wait for it. I hate to be the glass half empty guy but I predict we'll be hanging on for dear life come the end of the season. Struggling to make it to overtime to eke out a single point against the Leafs to keep 8th place.. Its not JM's fault we've had a ton of injuries. But the French fans and media won't see it the way you guys do is all I'm saying.. They will make the playoffs by more than 1 point. What they will do is make it uncomfortable where they allow the Leafs/Sabres to climb within striking distance and then rally as they fade. The Thrashers are done. The Sabres have a brutal stretch where they play Detroit and then hit the road for 7-8 games and for the Leafs to get to 88 points will require them to have finished the season on a 25-7-1 run or something crazy like that. In order for the Habs to collapse they will have to go 6-13-1. Edited February 25, 2011 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 They will make the playoffs by more than 1 point. What they will do is make it uncomfortable where they allow the Leafs/Sabres to climb within striking distance and then rally as they fade. The Thrashers are done. The Sabres have a brutal stretch where they play Detroit and then hit the road for 7-8 games and for the Leafs to get to 88 points will require them to have finished the season on a 25-7-1 run or something crazy like that. In order for the Habs to collapse they will have to go 6-13-1. It does seem unlikely. Surely the probabilities (there's that word again) favour the argument that the Habs have already passed through the worst of this slump. It's an error to extrapolate the future from the what happens to be the worst 10 game-stretch of the season. The only reason for thinking otherwise is that the bulk of our remaining games are on the road - an ominous factor considering our road record. But paranoia aside, rational analysis suggests we'll be fine. (It's almost like we've been fans of a bubble team for so long, we don't know how to cope with the cushion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeahBud Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 In order for the Habs to collapse they will have to go 6-13-1. we've got 12 road games and 7 home games left.... Hopefully Eller and Kosty will keep scoring..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It does seem unlikely. Surely the probabilities (there's that word again) favour the argument that the Habs have already passed through the worst of this slump. It's an error to extrapolate the future from the what happens to be the worst 10 game-stretch of the season. The only reason for thinking otherwise is that the bulk of our remaining games are on the road - an ominous factor considering our road record. But paranoia aside, rational analysis suggests we'll be fine. (It's almost like we've been fans of a bubble team for so long, we don't know how to cope with the cushion). I don't understand how a fanbase that has had nothing but fortune (even in the average days) has such a negative attitude. I have heard people say this team has no chance because you can't win a Stanley Cup relying on too many rookies. Meanwhile this fanbase witnessed a 1986 team win a Cup on the shoulders of Roy, Richer, Skrudland, Lemieux, Momesso and Dahlin. This fanbase watched the 1993 Canadiens get 19 goals from rookies Leclair, Dionne and DiPietro as well. They are afraid of collapsing again, when in all reality this team has only collapsed once since 2002 down the stretch. So instead of having the attitude that the "Habs will make it because they always do" we get "here we go again, they are going to collapse and miss the playoffs". It is extremely confusing. If the playoffs roll around we will get "we have no chance against the Flyers as an 8th seed" even though the Canadiens have beaten a 1st seed twice as well as a 2nd seed. I could understand this type of negative defeatist attitude by the Panthers, Leafs or Thrashers fanbase, but not the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeahBud Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think its because we have had our hearts broken so many times. 1986 and 1993 were a hell of a long time ago... its hard to compare the state of the league and even the game itself to that era. Its much harder to win now. We all thought last year was going to be the year and we're still not over it.. Dare to dream I guess. I think the pessimistic attitude comes from the realists who deep down feel that our hopes will be dashed once again as our beloved band of brothers most likely lose in the second round to the Bruins in 5 games... We are negative and defeatist only to serve the purpose of making ourselves feel better when it happens for real.. I agree that its a terrible way to cope and there is a lot we should be thankful for.. But this is the beauty of being a loving Habs fan. If we don't feel we can win the cup there isn't much left to live for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) I don't understand how a fanbase that has had nothing but fortune (even in the average days) has such a negative attitude. I have heard people say this team has no chance because you can't win a Stanley Cup relying on too many rookies. Meanwhile this fanbase witnessed a 1986 team win a Cup on the shoulders of Roy, Richer, Skrudland, Lemieux, Momesso and Dahlin. This fanbase watched the 1993 Canadiens get 19 goals from rookies Leclair, Dionne and DiPietro as well. They are afraid of collapsing again, when in all reality this team has only collapsed once since 2002 down the stretch. So instead of having the attitude that the "Habs will make it because they always do" we get "here we go again, they are going to collapse and miss the playoffs". It is extremely confusing. If the playoffs roll around we will get "we have no chance against the Flyers as an 8th seed" even though the Canadiens have beaten a 1st seed twice as well as a 2nd seed. I could understand this type of negative defeatist attitude by the Panthers, Leafs or Thrashers fanbase, but not the Habs. So well said!! Edited February 28, 2011 by johnnyhasbeen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) I think its because we have had our hearts broken so many times. 1986 and 1993 were a hell of a long time ago... its hard to compare the state of the league and even the game itself to that era. Its much harder to win now. We all thought last year was going to be the year and we're still not over it.. Dare to dream I guess. I think the pessimistic attitude comes from the realists who deep down feel that our hopes will be dashed once again as our beloved band of brothers most likely lose in the second round to the Bruins in 5 games... We are negative and defeatist only to serve the purpose of making ourselves feel better when it happens for real.. I agree that its a terrible way to cope and there is a lot we should be thankful for.. But this is the beauty of being a loving Habs fan. If we don't feel we can win the cup there isn't much left to live for... Hearts broken? The only time this fanbase has really had it's heart broken was 2007 and that was just because it was the Leafs. Everything else that happened in between was over achievement. Even 2008 had everybody anticipating a bubble team and they finished 1st. Heartbroken is a Sharks fan or a Bruins fan. The Bruins have lost in the Stanley Cup Finals 5 times since they last won. They have been upset in the 1st round multiple times by their biggest rival. Good things happen to this team regardless of the strength of team, the only reason that it hasn't resulted in Cups is because of incompetent management. Edited February 28, 2011 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Hearts broken? The only time this fanbase has really had it's heart broken was 2007 and that was just because it was the Leafs. Everything else that happened in between was over achievement. Even 2008 had everybody anticipating a bubble team and they finished 1st. Heartbroken is a Sharks fan or a Bruins fan. The Bruins have lost in the Stanley Cup Finals 5 times since they last won. They have been upset in the 1st round multiple times by their biggest rival. Good things happen to this team regardless of the strength of team, the only reason that it hasn't resulted in Cups is because of incompetent management. well spoken mr wamsley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeahBud Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I agree that incompetent management surrounded by 'yes men' is a dangerous combination. I'm sorry if I don't think the sun shines directly out of JM's a$$.. Don't know about you but finishing 1st and doing squat in the post season breaks my heart.. its like going out with a girl, paying for dinner and a movie and then getting a kiss on the cheek. Most frustrating year after year. Sorry to be Mr Negative with my first few posts. I know I'm new around here. I think my hostility stems from watching blowmez make $40K a day ... hell even Kovalev had more desire than this asshat.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I don't really get all the Martin hate. The only thing that disapoints me is that Boucher is gone, and I was excited to see how he would do at the helm. Really, when I look at this team, and all the adversity Martin has had to deal with from day one, he is doing very well in my opinion. He comes in and Gainey has just turned the entire team over. None of the core guys have ever played together. Right away the best player on the roster (Markov) goes down with a major injury. He has to deal with a goalie contraversy, which he handles very well, playing the hotter and more confident Halak. Every time he finds a line with chemistry, one of the forwards is injured...Gionta, Kostytsin, Cammie, and through all this the team comes together, buys his system and makes a great playoff run. Much of this success was based on Halak's great play, but mostly it was team defense and oportunistic scoring that got them through, much like the way they played Vancouver. High shots, but not too many great chances. All this with Markov going down in the first game of teh second round. This year is much the same. Markov, and Gorges (best defense and best stay at home defense) gone for the season. Stretches of time with a D squad that wouldn't be fit for Hamilton. The list of roster issues goes on. JM has no control over who is on his roster. He just leads the soldiers he's given. I must say that, over all, I am happy with what I have seen so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDriveFor25 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I don't really get all the Martin hate. The only thing that disapoints me is that Boucher is gone, and I was excited to see how he would do at the helm. Really, when I look at this team, and all the adversity Martin has had to deal with from day one, he is doing very well in my opinion. He comes in and Gainey has just turned the entire team over. None of the core guys have ever played together. Right away the best player on the roster (Markov) goes down with a major injury. He has to deal with a goalie contraversy, which he handles very well, playing the hotter and more confident Halak. Every time he finds a line with chemistry, one of the forwards is injured...Gionta, Kostytsin, Cammie, and through all this the team comes together, buys his system and makes a great playoff run. Much of this success was based on Halak's great play, but mostly it was team defense and oportunistic scoring that got them through, much like the way they played Vancouver. High shots, but not too many great chances. All this with Markov going down in the first game of teh second round. This year is much the same. Markov, and Gorges (best defense and best stay at home defense) gone for the season. Stretches of time with a D squad that wouldn't be fit for Hamilton. The list of roster issues goes on. JM has no control over who is on his roster. He just leads the soldiers he's given. I must say that, over all, I am happy with what I have seen so far. Agree completely... JM has done a fantastic job! Given the injuries, to be sitting in the spot they're in... great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) I agree that incompetent management surrounded by 'yes men' is a dangerous combination. I'm sorry if I don't think the sun shines directly out of JM's a$$.. Don't know about you but finishing 1st and doing squat in the post season breaks my heart.. its like going out with a girl, paying for dinner and a movie and then getting a kiss on the cheek. Most frustrating year after year. Sorry to be Mr Negative with my first few posts. I know I'm new around here. I think my hostility stems from watching blowmez make $40K a day ... hell even Kovalev had more desire than this asshat.. It's all about perspective and expectations. If your expectations are set and moved then you were bound to be disappointed. My expectation was that the Canadiens were an emerging team in 2008 but had them tempered by them choking to the Leafs in the last game of the season. When they jumped to the top I was happy, but didn't think they were in the same league as the elite of the NHL. They should have beaten Philly, but it wasn't heartbreaking. The only time I have been heartbroken was when they got swept by the Oilers in 81 with 103 points in a non-OT league. Getting knocked out by the Nords in 82 and 85 in OT of game 5/7 was also brutal. Edited February 28, 2011 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) In 08, the Habs numbers were skewed. There was no stand out dominant team in the east. Pitts was great, but still streaky. The Habs played and injury decimated Boston team 8 times and beat them all eight games. That was the difference. They stayed healthy and Boston didn't. The domination over Boston in the regular season was enough to make them look better than they really were. I was not confident going into the playoffs with that roster. The following year teams started playing division oponents 6 times, and healthy Boston beat injured Canadiens 6 times. Then they won the East. Health has so much to do with it. Edited February 28, 2011 by BCHabnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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