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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Do you find yourself not caring?

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I'm noticing a lot of posts and bloggers expressing the sentiment that they find themselves suddenly feeling indifferent to the sport we've all been obsessed with for most of our lives. 'The Habs lost/won...ho hum.' habs29retired just launched a thoughtful thread about how the Habs should deal with the absence of MaxPac and I find myself just not giving a sh*t. What is the point about caring about a league that is so catastrophically stupid and negligent? How many of you are experiencing this reaction to Tuesday's events and the subsequent reaction of the league and its cronies? Just tuning out? Is it possible the, at least for some of us, our love of pro hockey will be permanently diminished? Anyway, I just thought it worthwhile to start a thread where we can track our own attitudes to the game post-Chara-hit.

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Yeah I watched yesterday's game more because its such a huge part of my life, but when I sat down to watch the game it felt more like watching any two random teams that I have no connection with, rather then my Habs, and the body language of of the team seems to be the same as alot of us. Going through the emotions no heart and I don't blame them at all.

I dint know what it's gonna take , but I hope my passion returns, maybe I need to see patches in the press box, or maybe to see the Habs beat Boston without an injury incurring.

I really don't know but I hope this passes, I just don't see a light at the end of this tunnel right now.

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I still love the game of hockey.

I'm still unflinchingly interested in the day to day of the Montreal Canadiens. Why should the Habs be punished with fans losing interest?

Are we really thinking of turning our backs on the team? We should be supporting them now more than ever.

The league has big problems, those problems will be around as long as the sport is run by a guy who hasn't played it professionally.

Patches injury and lack of discipline erode my confidence in people, not in the game.

Throwing the baby out with the bath water is not a position I'm ready to take.

Watch the games, wear the swag and cheer them on. They deserve it.

Edited by BrenDittero

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Yes. I don't care because there is no hope of beating the system.

When Montreal tries to thug it out with Boston, they get destroyed 8-6 and beaten up all over the ice. When Montreal completely outclasses the Bruins, they get gooned up, lose a key player in their future, and the league gives them permission to keep on doing it.

It strangely reminds me of a lyric from a comical Eminem song from 1999. In the song, a bully tells a kid Eminem that he's going to beat him up after school. So in class, Em tries to fake an injury so that he can get home safely but the teacher knows he is faking and assigns him extra homework. He hopefully asks "Aren't you going to give me after school detention?" to which the teacher replies, "nah, that bully wants to kick your ass and Imma let him." In another scene in the same song the school principal walks in on Eminem getting beaten up in the bathroom... and decides to join in.

It's meant to be humorous - but I suddenly feel like the principal has just shoved my face in the school toilet. Injustice hurts.

Edited by BTH

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The problem is this. Why invest yourself emotionally in a team's players, when you now know that those players can be obliterated (injured, paralyzed or killed) at any moment by a vicious, irresponsible play, with the complete support of the league? And why invest yourself emotionally in a team, when that team can be ravaged with catatrophic injuries caused by reckless play that undermine its chances of success, all with the full blessing of the league? What's the point? It's not hockey. It's something else.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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I'm noticing a lot of posts and bloggers expressing the sentiment that they find themselves suddenly feeling indifferent to the sport we've all been obsessed with for most of our lives. 'The Habs lost/won...ho hum.' habs29retired just launched a thoughtful thread about how the Habs should deal with the absence of MaxPac and I find myself just not giving a sh*t. What is the point about caring about a league that is so catastrophically stupid and negligent? How many of you are experiencing this reaction to Tuesday's events and the subsequent reaction of the league and its cronies? Just tuning out? Is it possible the, at least for some of us, our love of pro hockey will be permanently diminished? Anyway, I just thought it worthwhile to start a thread where we can track our own attitudes to the game post-Chara-hit.

I didn't turn on the game until there was 5 minutes left. I was pissed, as i said in another thread - not at the NHL's non-suspension, i said at the time of the incident, that there probably wouldn't have been one. Hell, MaxPac even if maxpac was killed the idiots in charge of the NHL probably woudn't have suspended CHara. What pisses me off more is the reaction from the hockey establishment in calling this a hockey play. To me that is BULLSHIT!!! That is what's been boiling my blood for the past two days.

Having said that, i started watching hockey when I came to canada just before my 5th birthday and I became a habs fan when I became a hockey fan. I have been a habs for over 35 years and with the exception of a 2-3 year period after the mess created by the unholy trinity Corey-Houle-Trembley, I have lived and died with the habs over that period. When the time won i felt the joy and when the team lost, I felt the defeat. Even during the period when i didn't watch the games, I still kept reading the news on the habs by making a couple of weeks weekly to the downtown library to read the gazette (as I had done since a teenager since that was the only way to get regular news on the habs before the internet explosion) to see what was happening, hoping, praying that those friggin idiots who had destroyed the franchise would be fired.

Anyways, I long ago lost faith in the leadership of the NHL under Bettman, the idiots like Burke and Campbell who are in charge of officating and the blind stupidity of the zebras. But the big eye opener for me was just how stupid the whole friggin hockey establishment is, based on the largely pro-Chara reaction accross the league and most of the hockey media types. It also pisses me off when bloggers like Arpon Basu seem to sit on a fence and be willing to call a spade a spade by not wanting to make a judgement on intent.

To me there are two issues here. The first is accountability. The NHL and the hockey establishment needed to make Chara accountable for his actions and instead they gave him a get out jail free card. IMO, there is no way Chara shouldn't have been held unaccountable for his actions and at the VERY LEAST careless that led to MaxPac's injury. to me that should have been worth a minimum of 5 games.

The second is intent. Wamsley has made the point you can't detemine intent on that play. I disagree. When for the past two games the ENTIRE bruins team has been making runs at and targeting MaxPac and Subban (coincidently the habs BEST young players) and that Chara gave him a vicisous two handed slash that wasn't called AND repeatedly was trying to get him to fight, I think you have enough circumstantial evdience on intent to punish him. To top it off the bastard says he didn't know it was MaxPac when he hit him?????? Are you friggin kidding me????? to me that statement alone should be an affront to any intelligent person and should net Chara a MINIMUM of 20 games just for insulting the intellegence of any reasonable person. However it appears to me that the hockey establishment has shown they have no intelligence, have a negative IQ - if that's possible and are the biggest morons in the sporting world. In ANY other sport, including football, discipline USUALLY is adequete. In hockey you have idiots like Murphy and Bettman talking about an unfortunate incident in OUR VERY FAST GAME. yes its the speed of the game that led to the incidident. Friggin damn idiots!! Who after the Bertuzzi incident is going to say that they intend on hurting anyone???? that is for a reasonable person to decide and clearly there are very few reasonable people in the hockey community.

Anyway, I'm still to pissed to really even be writting, so last thing is that based on Accountability and Intent, this is the kind of incident that should have netted Chara a minimum of 30 games.

I'm probably in the minority on this on this site, but I think there is no place for fighting in hockey. The retribution arguement is a crock of shit. If you hold people accountable for their actiosn with stiff penalites, there is no "self-policing" requird by players and you avoid this whole detemrination of "intent" after the fact.

If you accidently high stick someone leading to an injury - make it an automatic 5 game suspension. If you cross check someone in the face 5 game suspension. Hit someone from behind 10 game suspension. 2nd incident double the suspension. Third triple it. Make it automatic. Take out the judgement from idiots like Campbell, Murphy, Burke and the rest of the clowns in charge of the safety of the game.

Discipline in the NHL is a joke. Getting a 3-5 game suspension in a 82 game schedule is meaningless. Gettig a 3-4 game suspension in 16 game NHL season is significant.

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To add to my last post:

This is a pretty self absorbed train of thought. You'd think the fans who feel this way had their collective necks fractured.

There is only one guy who should be thinking along these lines and his name is Max Pacioretty.

Turn your backs if you like, that's your decision, but Max won't.

I don't know him, and have never spoken with him, but I imagine he wants nothing more than to be with his team for the playoffs.

Again, it's devastating that the league doesn't care enough to protect players and the integrity of the game. Terrible on so many levels.

Personally, I just can't wave the white flag yet.

Edited by BrenDittero

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That whole hockey play thing us what's bothering me too. A hockey play gone bad is when wiz got hit in the face with a puck and was laying in a puddle if his own blood and although it hurt to see that I wad able to get over it because Taylor Hall made a legal play, and wiz took a chance to block it and unfortunately and hit is own stick and went up to his face. Horrible to see- yes, angry at Hall or the NHL- no.

Last night Komisarek bAsically got a worse punishment then Chara did for a dive by a notorious diver in Carcillo. I only bring this one up because it is the exact opposite the the chara situation, and yet the NHL sees it as the same.

It's the incostistincy that is driving me away not just this situation, this is just the straw that broke the camels back.

My favourite and sport and pass time has lost it's innocence, hockey always kinda took me into a world of my own sort of living through the players because I wanted so bad to make it to the NHL when I was younger. Now that separation is gone. I'm still gonna wTch and support, I just don't know if that separation away from reality ( in a good way) will ever return

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When you come to the realization that you are emotionally tied to a corporate logo and forced to defend a corporate logo against other corporate logos and individuals indebted to their choice the stupid banter about "they are classless fans" and "that fanbase is stupid" become absurd. The arrogance and ego involved in people who chose "corporate logo Detroit" when they were 8 years old which makes me better than the individual who chose "corporate logo Toronto" because that individual wanted to bond with his father on Saturday night watching a hockey game is so infantile and irrational.

All fanbases are the same. They have brilliant fans, they have devoted fans and they have irrational and stupid fans. The bigger the fanbase the larger the population of each of these individuals.

For me the issue is more about caring about something so nonsensical and then having that re-affirmed with a player almost dying and Bettman essentially telling us to go ###### off. If the guy has the crassness and ego to tell a company investing millions of dollars in them to go ###### themselves, what does he feel about our $500-$1000 yearly investment?

The short answer, he doesn't care about you or I. Bettman cares about Jeremy Jacobs and his vote and ability to reward him with a new contract. If Geoff Molson held the sway that Jacobs did then Chara likely wouldn't have been free and clear. As long as the NHL revenues go up he will keep his job and not care about protecting the on ice product. It is about political warfare and backdoor manoeuvring, not about what is right or wrong.

I used to believe in the sanctity of sports. I thought it absurd that Kerry Fraser would allow Gretzky to get away with a high stick because it wasn't the right thing to do. Put it in historical perspective and watch how Bettman flooded the southern states with hockey teams and did EVERYTHING in his power regardless of common sense to push through his agenda, does it seem so absurd in retrospect to finesse the LA Kings way to the Stanley Cup Finals? Look at Gretzky, he tossed him under the bus when all Gretzky wanted was his money. The biggest name in the sport is no longer involved in the game over peanuts to the league.

Then after all of this we are awarded with Bettman standing at center ice and mocking Canada with his "who said hockey couldn't survive in California?" speech when the Ducks won the Cup.

All of our loyalties can change depending on our situation. Rooting interest can be altered through the smallest alteration. Go to a bar with a Leaf fan when a Leafs win can clinch a playoff spot for Montreal and a Leaf loss can secure the first pick and you will be sitting there with two fanbases supporting their opposite teams based on personal agenda. If your child is drafted by the Maple Leafs how does your loyalty change? If you are offered a job doubling your salary to work in the Maple Leafs scouting staff and your picks end up on the Leafs, do you root for their success? If Chara had given $1,000,000 to your charity how does it alter your perception of Tuesday night? It goes on and on and on.

When you add all of these things together you begin to get an individual that is slowly being pushed away from caring about the result and more interested in the train wreck that we call sports fans. I used to always wonder how sportswriters could distance themselves from their childhood rooting interest and it probably has to do with seeing behind the curtain and how things work and being influenced and befriended by individuals who routinely switch teams and allegiances.

This is one of the reasons that bloggers have exploded on the scene because they are loyal and have a different perspective than the veterans and they lack the political ties to sources.

This Chara decision just pushes me a couple more inches away from caring and if they don't start to make an attempt to make me feel like we matter the NHL will eventually reach a tipping point where I am gone and will not purchase their crap anymore.

Edited by Wamsley01

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Well, I think this season is a write off. too many injuries and if we have to play Philly or Boston they have permission to goon us up to win. If the habs were playing washington, Detroit, etc, it would fun, but playing the legalized goon squads is just no longer fun.

Worse, my wife doesn't want my kids watching anymore and they are tweens. My son is a hockey player and she basically said "he is upset and worries about getting hurt. If we want him to enjoy the game, we can't expose him to this stuff". My oldest boy told me he simply doesn't want to watch anymore, he doesn't want to risk watching someone get killed.

This is the impact the NHL should be worried about. We old farts are one thing, but the next generation is getting turned off hockey.

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The NHL robots took this incident as just another unfortunate misc event in their perfect cash-cow-world. However they are underestimating humans being. They will look back at that Tuesday of March as the tipping point of the collapse of the National Hockey League.

When Geoff Molson says he wants to take a leadership role, I would love to see him head a new Canadian National Hockey League movement. We would have teams added in Québec, Winnipeg, Hamilton, a 2nd team in Toronto, the Maritimes, a 2nd one in B.C. I am sure Buffalo, Mario's team and others would defect that league of killers-lover. Who needs the inhumane monsters of the NHL to tell us how to play our national sport?

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The NHL robots took this incident as just another unfortunate misc event in their perfect cash-cow-world. However they are underestimating humans being. They will look back at that Tuesday of March as the tipping point of the collapse of the National Hockey League.

When Geoff Molson says he wants to take a leadership role, I would love to see him head a new Canadian National Hockey League movement. We would have teams added in Québec, Winnipeg, Hamilton, a 2nd team in Toronto, the Maritimes, a 2nd one in B.C. I am sure Buffalo, Mario's team and others would defect that league of killers-lover. Who needs the inhumane monsters of the NHL to tell us how to play our national sport?

The second part is a pipe dream.

The rest of the league cares as much as we do about David Booth. It may be the beginning of the tipping point, but it will likely be forgotten once the playoffs roll around and people are watching playoff games while sipping on suds on the patio. Ultimately I think the tipping point will be a paralysis or death.

It's easy for the NHL to say, oops, sorry about the injury but it is none of your business if the player recovers to a relatively normal life, moreso then it will be if they are explaining a death.

The second somebody dies the media starts to dig deep. What you will see is a clear path that will be created in hindsight that puts the NHL in a culpable position, add in the digging into the nonsensical judgements and their total lack of consistency and regardless of whether the death was an accident the NHL will be blamed. Much like Selig was blamed in retrospect but was not held to the fire while the steroid abuse was at it's apex and 70+ home runs and 40 year olds having peak years was brushed aside.

Hindsight brings clarity and the narrative will change in the negative for Bettman.

He is acting like an arrogant prick right now, but history will not view him well. Remember, at one point Alan Eagleson was in the Hall of Fame, was hailed as the genius behind the Summit Series and Canada Cups and was the most powerful agent in hockey. Now he is an NHL pariah.

I guess expecting patience for this sort of thing from fans who wanted to trade Price and send Eller to the AHL 3 weeks ago is unrealistic though ^_^

Edited by Wamsley01

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I tend to agree with you CC, I also am becoming disillusioned and sickened by all the senseless violence and injuries.

It's hockey - not @%$#@^* ROLLER DERBY.

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Problem is that the NHL has attracted the fans who go to a car race to see the crash, instead of the actual race.

Some of the far fetched american teams hype their hockey games more like a wwe feud rather then a real sport, in which its outcome has nothing to do with violence, but sadly violence sells and as long as the profits roll in violence is what they will sell.

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For the moment, I am completely indifferent about the game. I haven't looked at the highlights or the scores since the incedent. The thing that amazes me, and really, we have discussed this many times, is just how powerful the media is today. The media is the reason that your Flames, Leafs, Oilers fan buddy told you that you are just being an irrational fan and you are biased because it's your team. The media is the reason that People who are not Habs fans are saying it was a clean hit and an unfortunate accident. The league says it, and the media follows. People don't bother to think for themselves. I showed my friend who is very smart, and he said we would have to agree to disagree.

I was insensed. I mean if you start with the shove and melee after the OT win in January, and the fighting in February, it is reasonable to connect that Chara had a personal issue with Max. Follow it up with pictures and front camera angles showing Chara shove Max's head into the turnbuckle, and finally Chara's lies in the post game saying "I didn't know it was him. He kind of jumped????" But after all this people take the road which the media and the league paves. "Unfortunate incedent"

Normally I don't get overly emotional about this stuff. I didn't ask for blood after Grabo, Cooke, and Stall injured Marky. This case is different. Not only because of the severity of the incedent, but also because if you look at testimony from non goon players that know the game better than we ever will, they are saying that Chara DID know the stanchion was there, and he did not hold back.

I supppose discussing it further is pretty futile. That is probably the root of my indifference.

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The biggest non-sense in this whole story remains, for me, the idiot logic behind the ruling.

"It was a hockey play."

NO, it was a ######ing interference penalty. It was against the ######ing rules ! And an action against the rules who results in a severe injury should be penalised by more than a game misconduct penalty. Bottom line.

Hell, slashing happened in every NHL games I've seen in the last 27 years. Now why do you suspend Mike Cammalleri for his hit on Nino if if was just a hockey play ?

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The biggest non-sense in this whole story remains, for me, the idiot logic behind the ruling.

"It was a hockey play."

NO, it was a ######ing interference penalty. It was against the ######ing rules ! And an action against the rules who results in a severe injury should be penalised by more than a game misconduct penalty. Bottom line.

Hell, slashing happened in every NHL games I've seen in the last 27 years. Now why do you suspend Mike Cammalleri for his hit on Nino if if was just a hockey play ?

I gave up trying to make sense of the stupidity coming out of the NHL/medias mouths. They have focused on intent and can't move anywhere from there.

Take Komisarek's hit last night. Just say that was up for debate.

Would the argument that it was a harmless hit if it was on a different part of the ice take hold? If it was at center ice there would be a different result.

It's absolute stupidity and the NHL has pulled the magic trick of distracting you from the real issue with intent. That is it's purpose and that is why they use it.

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What makes matters worse is that so many people are seeing this as a 'Habs fan/Montreal' issue. (Just check the responses to TSN's Via Rail story of you doubt it: Via and Air Canada are being widely ripped as 'sour grapes by loser Habs fans').

I can't speak for others. My reaction has little to do with the Habs, except for one thing: as a Habs fan I had some prior emotional investment in Pacioretty, as I do (or did) with all those guys I follow(ed) on a daily basis. It's that attachment, I think, that truly made what happened such a shock. All your life you've been pulling for these guys or others like them. Then in two days you realize that the NHL doesn't give a rip if they live or die, and neither do other players, the media, or other fans. And that because of that, any of them could be next.

As Wamsley says, to everyone else it's just some guy they've hardly ever heard of in a jersey they don't particularly like. It's just a bad incident, but abstract.

Because for us right now it's NOT abstract, I think we can see the situation for what it actually is - a horror show. The tragedy is that so few people can see it, or see that it will happen to THEIR guys sooner or later.

I'm not tuning out because my team got a raw deal (which it did). I'm tuning out because I have no interest in seeing people get permanently injured or killed because of gross negligence. Period.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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I think the answers as to why it was deemed a Hockey Play and no suspension was handed out can be found in the relationship between Jeremy Jacobs, Gary Bettman and Colin Campbell.

That's a perfect storm of indifference that cannot work in Montreal's favour. As long as this triumvirate is together the Bruins will have the upper hand with regards to suspension rulings.

Not a fair situation for the other 29 teams.

Edited by BrenDittero

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What makes matters worse is that so many people are seeing this as a 'Habs fan/Montreal' issue. (Just check the responses to TSN's Via Rail story of you doubt it: Via and Air Canada are being widely ripped as 'sour grapes by loser Habs fans').

I can't speak for others. My reaction has little to do with the Habs, except for one thing: as a Habs fan I had some prior emotional investment in Pacioretty, as I do (or did) with all those guys I follow(ed) on a daily basis. It's that attachment, I think, that truly made what happened such a shock. All your life you've been pulling for these guys or others like them. Then in two days you realize that the NHL doesn't give a rip if they live or die, and neither do other players, the media, or other fans. And that because of that, any of them could be next.

As Wamsley says, to everyone else it's just some guy they've hardly ever heard of in a jersey they don't particularly like. It's just a bad incident, but abstract.

Because for us right now it's NOT abstract, I think we can see the situation for what it actually is - a horror show. The tragedy is that so few people can see it, or see that it will happen to THEIR guys sooner or later.

I'm not tuning out because my team got a raw deal (which it did). I'm tuning out because I have no interest in seeing people get permanently injured or killed because of gross negligence. Period.

I disagreed on Booth, Savard, Bergeron etc and thought there should have been severe discipline, but forgot about it within 24 hours.

Those who agree with the NHL just because they hate the Habs are idiots because you never know when it is going to be you.

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Don't get me wrong, i think you guys are making A LOT of sense. but lets quit feeling so sorry for ourselves...

what else are you going to do watch Desperate housewives with your wife?

Max will be back in the second round of the playoffs and we'll have our day in the sun.

my pipe dream for the day?

Canuks - Habs final.

Gary Bettman has to present us the cup in the Bell Center

Dare to dream, Karma is a fickle mistress

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Don't get me wrong, i think you guys are making A LOT of sense. but lets quit feeling so sorry for ourselves...

what else are you going to do watch Desperate housewives with your wife?

Max will be back in the second round of the playoffs and we'll have our day in the sun.

my pipe dream for the day?

Canuks - Habs final.

Gary Bettman has to present us the cup in the Bell Center

Dare to dream, Karma is a fickle mistress

I like your optimism YeahBud. I have a feeling I know what all these distressed Habs fans will be doing the evening of March 24. Same for game 1 of the Canadiens vs whoever.

Edited by BrenDittero

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I can't help but to think that if Pouliot would have pulled this hit on Recchi, the consequences for Habs players would have been terrible during the 3rd period. And that Pouliot would be dead at some point on march 24th.

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I can't help but to think that if Pouliot would have pulled this hit on Recchi, the consequences for Habs players would have been terrible during the 3rd period. And that Pouliot would be dead at some point on march 24th.

You are absolutely right. Pouliot wouldn't have made it to the March 24th game though. He'd be serving day 8 of his 10 game suspension.

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Well for me, the only thing that I could possibly see changing my view of the NHE is for the Booins to win the Cup this year, and I honestly hope they do win. If the Booins dont win the Cup this year I can all but guarentee that nothing will change. It will take the Booins winning the Cup for enough of the owners to wake the hell up and fire Bettman and the rest of the jack-holes who have turned a great sport into a league of hockey entertainment. I've said for years that the NHL is the NHE now, and after this weeks bunk I bet theres a lot more converts to my side who now agree thats its nothing more than hockey entertainment. It clearly isnt a sport anymore.

Even if the owners dont wake up, more of the fans have and its only a matter of time before federal goverments start investigating the NHE for trying to circumvent local and federal laws. The NHE's inaction on Chara's hit will have hopefully sealed Bettmans and his cronies fate. I'm hoping that its only a matter of time before they are all gone and that the league can return to its previous status of being a real sport.

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