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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Do you find yourself not caring?

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After witnessing one of the most brutal, illegal hits in hockey - and watching the league do nothing..., I'm out. I'll probably tune for a bit of the playoffs but frankly, I just don't care. The NHL does not care about it's players or the fans so why care about them? I've got far too many better things to be doing than watching this gong show.

It was nice chatting with a bunch of you on these boards.

Take care!

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I am in mourning no longer, I was really in a funk for a couple of days, the deck has been stacked against the habs again, it just makes the comeback that much greater. I hope this will bring the team closer together, and realize that no one will feel sorry for them, and that if they wanna succeed they are going to have to claw out every win they can get.

I'm not gonna let this event ruin the love for the sport of hockey, hockey is more than the NHL, and the NHL is more than the Boston Bruins, don't let the Bruins win.

Edited by bar

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I'm not gonna let this event ruin the love for the sport of hockey, hockey is more than the NHL, and the NHL is more than the Boston Bruins, don't let the Bruins win.

Well stated.

In time, I hope more fans who feel jilted by the league will wake up and come to this conclusion. Sports are about overcoming adversity, not taking your ball and going home.

Unless you're playing street hockey...then it is about taking your ball, sticks, net and going home. ( for supper )

Edited by BrenDittero

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Thing is Im still hoping for a habs player to swing his stick with two hands straight to the face of Chara the next game, hopefully to hit an eye or something. Thats what scaring me the most. My feelings about this. And fact is that would only make this shit continue. But the NHL chose to let it continue as well so theres no help coming.

Chara is like Usama bin ladin... the NHL would be better without him. Thats how I feel.

Edited by Dalhabs

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Don't get me wrong, i think you guys are making A LOT of sense. but lets quit feeling so sorry for ourselves...

what else are you going to do watch Desperate housewives with your wife?

Max will be back in the second round of the playoffs and we'll have our day in the sun.

my pipe dream for the day?

Canuks - Habs final.

Gary Bettman has to present us the cup in the Bell Center

Dare to dream, Karma is a fickle mistress

Max Pac isn't coming back this season, maybe not ever. And if he does, he might be a marginal NHLer.

Optimism is blindness.

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Max Pac isn't coming back this season, maybe not ever. And if he does, he might be a marginal NHLer.

Optimism is blindness.

Maybe Patch will never return. In the back of our minds, we all certainly know that it's possible. Anything is.

But what's wrong with a little optimism?

Because we don't personally know Max it's easier to make it more about the game and his contribution to the Habs.

If he was a guy you knew or worked with you'd probably be happy to blindly hope for the best.

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Maybe Patch will never return. In the back of our minds, we all certainly know that it's possible. Anything is.

But what's wrong with a little optimism?

Because we don't personally know Max it's easier to make it more about the game and his contribution to the Habs.

If he was a guy you knew or worked with you'd probably be happy to blindly hope for the best.

If it helps you feel good about yourself, fine, but there's no reason to pass fantasies off as fact. Face it, Pacioretty is done for the year. Even if he's healthy enough to attempt a comeback, the team will tell him to wait until next year. And I'd say there's a very serious chance that he's no longer the same player even if he does return. That's just reality.

Do you think Gauthier sits in his office thinking "Hmm... everything is A-okay: Pacioretty will be back for the playoffs just as good as always and Markov will be as good as new for training camp. I'm sure it'll all turn out alright. Of course, in the back of my mind, there's a possibility that both careers are over but why think about that?" Gauthier needs to deal with reality not with optimism.

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If it helps you feel good about yourself, fine, but there's no reason to pass fantasies off as fact. Face it, Pacioretty is done for the year. Even if he's healthy enough to attempt a comeback, the team will tell him to wait until next year. And I'd say there's a very serious chance that he's no longer the same player even if he does return. That's just reality.

Do you think Gauthier sits in his office thinking "Hmm... everything is A-okay: Pacioretty will be back for the playoffs just as good as always and Markov will be as good as new for training camp. I'm sure it'll all turn out alright. Of course, in the back of my mind, there's a possibility that both careers are over but why think about that?" Gauthier needs to deal with reality not with optimism.

Talking about Gauthier, I hope he will still be pissed off in Florida for the GM meeting on Tuesday, and not merely politely expressing his concern. This has to stop. Who will take ownership of the situation? NHL surely won't. Clubs owners seem to much on the outside. Players won't ask for more suspension to be given (and the possibility to see your salary cut around $50,000/game). Coaches do with what they have. Sponsors may complain and leave, but there's always another sponsor ready to take the spot. Medias only care about sensationalism and selling copies and don't have anything to do with the game. You won't ever see viewers stop watching TV because of too-much violence. Last hope: GMs. Good luck Gauthier!

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If it helps you feel good about yourself, fine, but there's no reason to pass fantasies off as fact. Face it, Pacioretty is done for the year. Even if he's healthy enough to attempt a comeback, the team will tell him to wait until next year. And I'd say there's a very serious chance that he's no longer the same player even if he does return. That's just reality.

Do you think Gauthier sits in his office thinking "Hmm... everything is A-okay: Pacioretty will be back for the playoffs just as good as always and Markov will be as good as new for training camp. I'm sure it'll all turn out alright. Of course, in the back of my mind, there's a possibility that both careers are over but why think about that?" Gauthier needs to deal with reality not with optimism.

Extreme pessimism is no better than what you consider blind optimism. While it is possible that Pacioerrety never evolves into the player he is capable of becoming, that is simply a hypothetical assumption. There's very little reason to believe his career is over, he is 22 years of age and people have overcome much worse in their lives.

As for the initial question, I have certainly not lost interest. I understand that we cannot take back the reality that this very horrific play happened, but people in Montreal are only reacting like this because this time it was personal in that we witnessed it first hand. Similar plays have happened in the past to other teams as well, and I think it is irrational to assume that these types of plays/injuries will happen to players on our team at any type of consistent frequency. Premeditated and dirty because it was 4-0 and Chara vs Pacioretty? Perhaps. Freak incident that we will hopefully witness only once in our lives (the outcome)? Just as likely. The games matter as much as they ever have, we just have a little sour tastes in our mouths at the moment. Come playoffs (if not sooner) the passion will return to each and everyone of you. If not, you're only punishing yourself.

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Extreme pessimism is no better than what you consider blind optimism. While it is possible that Pacioerrety never evolves into the player he is capable of becoming, that is simply a hypothetical assumption. There's very little reason to believe his career is over, he is 22 years of age and people have overcome much worse in their lives.

As for the initial question, I have certainly not lost interest. I understand that we cannot take back the reality that this very horrific play happened, but people in Montreal are only reacting like this because this time it was personal in that we witnessed it first hand. Similar plays have happened in the past to other teams as well, and I think it is irrational to assume that these types of plays/injuries will happen to players on our team at any type of consistent frequency. Premeditated and dirty because it was 4-0 and Chara vs Pacioretty? Perhaps. Freak incident that we will hopefully witness only once in our lives (the outcome)? Just as likely. The games matter as much as they ever have, we just have a little sour tastes in our mouths at the moment. Come playoffs (if not sooner) the passion will return to each and everyone of you. If not, you're only punishing yourself.

I have seen Zednik decapitated and I have seen Savage almost break his neck as a Habs fan. I have seen in the last year Booth and Savard wiped out. I have seen way more than one "freak accident" in my life. That doesn't include the plays like Malarchuk and Zednik having their throat slashed or Trent McCleary almost dying when his trachea was crushed by a slap shot. There is an understanding that these things can happen, but not like last week where it was totally avoidable.

This is a legit problem whether you like it or not. As for "punishing ourselves" that is in the eye of the beholder. If somebody is turned off by something and you aren't, then don't assume because it is punishment for you that it will be for them. I am not done with the game yet, but I am a hell of a lot closer than I was 5 years ago and the continuation of these type of events could lead me there one day and I will not be punishing myself.

500 hours a year could easily be moved to something else without punishing myself, just like it was easily replaced in 2005.

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If it helps you feel good about yourself, fine, but there's no reason to pass fantasies off as fact. Face it, Pacioretty is done for the year. Even if he's healthy enough to attempt a comeback, the team will tell him to wait until next year. And I'd say there's a very serious chance that he's no longer the same player even if he does return. That's just reality.

Do you think Gauthier sits in his office thinking "Hmm... everything is A-okay: Pacioretty will be back for the playoffs just as good as always and Markov will be as good as new for training camp. I'm sure it'll all turn out alright. Of course, in the back of my mind, there's a possibility that both careers are over but why think about that?" Gauthier needs to deal with reality not with optimism.

Very good BTH. You've successfully crafted a great reply to something I didn't write.

Again, I'm not saying that Patches will be back this year. I think you'll find that I fully understand that's most likely the case.

Really don't see the harm in hoping he will make a quick and (as full as possible) recovery.

I think Fox Mulder said it best "I want to believe"

Your imaginary Gauthier conversation was a nice touch though. Well played sir.

Edited by BrenDittero

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I have seen Zednik decapitated and I have seen Savage almost break his neck as a Habs fan. I have seen in the last year Booth and Savard wiped out. I have seen way more than one "freak accident" in my life. That doesn't include the plays like Malarchuk and Zednik having their throat slashed or Trent McCleary almost dying when his trachea was crushed by a slap shot. There is an understanding that these things can happen, but not like last week where it was totally avoidable.

This is a legit problem whether you like it or not. As for "punishing ourselves" that is in the eye of the beholder. If somebody is turned off by something and you aren't, then don't assume because it is punishment for you that it will be for them. I am not done with the game yet, but I am a hell of a lot closer than I was 5 years ago and the continuation of these type of events could lead me there one day and I will not be punishing myself.

500 hours a year could easily be moved to something else without punishing myself, just like it was easily replaced in 2005.

The difference is that when you saw Zednik nearly get decapitated or many of the other examples you listed, we didn't have such a large percentage of the city of Montreal and much of its fanbase saying they were turned off by hockey as a consequence. Not only that, we certainly did not have people saying they did not care how the habs did from there on out. The topic at hand is just as much about whether or not people have stopped caring about how the habs progress as it is about people who have stopped caring about the sport itself. Personally, I am a fan of the greatest hockey team in the world and I will not simply end this lifelong relationship I've had with my favourite team at the snap of a finger. We are all individuals and I appreciate that some people will indeed be turned off by the sport, both because of the brutality of the play, as well as the manner in which the league dealt with the matter. I am also willing to admit that there are serious problems with the game that need to be looked at. Questioning where the game of hockey is headed because of these problems is much different than not caring how the habs do from here on out because of a dirty play by a player on a rival team. I guess this is the main point I am trying to make, "not caring" about how the habs do is simply a knee jerk reaction whereas questioning the game as a whole is more appropriate for the situation. Pacioretty himself said that he did not want or even expect more than a one game suspension for the play... Why should we as fans get our panties in a bunch and abandon the game as well as our team? It simply does not make sense to me. I can see how the evolution of the game can lead older generations to become less "involved" with the game, but "not caring" about how the habs do because of one incident? An irrational response to a single, horrific, event. If you do not feel as though you would be punishing yourself by not following the habs anymore then I do not know how you could call yourself a true habs fan... something I am indeed aware you are. 500 hours for an avid fan were easily replaced in 2005 because we had no other option, poor comparison.

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If it helps you feel good about yourself, fine, but there's no reason to pass fantasies off as fact. Face it, Pacioretty is done for the year.

Does ... not ... compute ...

Your two statements are in total opposition to each other. We simply don't know about Pacioretty's health, so claiming he's done for the year is just as baseless as saying he'll be back next game.

Edited by ForumGhost

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Very good BTH. You've successfully crafted a great reply to something I didn't write.

Again, I'm not saying that Patches will be back this year. I think you'll find that I fully understand that's most likely the case.

You said it here:

Max will be back in the second round of the playoffs and we'll have our day in the sun.

I hope he'll be back too. By next season. And I hope he comes back just as good as before, if not a bit more gun shy. But hoping he's back by the playoffs is setting yourself up for disappointment. There's a better chance of Markov and Gorges coming back.

Extreme pessimism is no better than what you consider blind optimism. While it is possible that Pacioerrety never evolves into the player he is capable of becoming, that is simply a hypothetical assumption. There's very little reason to believe his career is over, he is 22 years of age and people have overcome much worse in their lives.

As for the initial question, I have certainly not lost interest. I understand that we cannot take back the reality that this very horrific play happened, but people in Montreal are only reacting like this because this time it was personal in that we witnessed it first hand. Similar plays have happened in the past to other teams as well, and I think it is irrational to assume that these types of plays/injuries will happen to players on our team at any type of consistent frequency. Premeditated and dirty because it was 4-0 and Chara vs Pacioretty? Perhaps. Freak incident that we will hopefully witness only once in our lives (the outcome)? Just as likely. The games matter as much as they ever have, we just have a little sour tastes in our mouths at the moment. Come playoffs (if not sooner) the passion will return to each and everyone of you. If not, you're only punishing yourself.

Optimism is blind, pessimism is blind. What do those words mean other than appealing to emotions rather than logic? Extreme or moderate makes no difference, it is still a deviation from reality. That being said, the Canadiens are better off preparing themselves for the worst case than hoping the best case turns out.

Does ... not ... compute ...

Your two statements are in total opposition to each other. We simply don't know about Pacioretty's health, so claiming he's done for the year is just as baseless as saying he'll be back next game.

What don't we know about his health? He fractured his vertebra and has a severe concussion. Tony Marinaro reported in L'Antichambre that the vertebra alone could take two months to heal and that, barring any concussion effects, he could be able to skate by the SCF, but his life and career would be in jeopardy because that's way too early. He thinks there's no way Montreal would let him play in that situation, and I think every team in the NHL would have the same policy. One good shot to his neck or head and he could be paralyzed.

Then there are the concussion effects that will bother him for a long time.

He also says that if his vertebra needs to be operated on, then his career is finished. This happens very rarely and I do expect Patches to come back next season. Maybe he'll be a shade of himself for 20 games and then be back to usual. But by this season? Willful blindness (hey, not unlike Chara!)

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Hey BTH,

You really need to take a closer look at who is posting what.

I am BrenDittero not YeahBud.

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Hey BTH,

You really need to take a closer look at who is posting what.

I am BrenDittero not YeahBud.

Aah. You're both new and you responded to my original post to him so I thought you were him.

But the rest of my post still applies.

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UPDATE:

Talked to Max this afternoon.

He wanted me to tell everyone on the forum that he hopes to be back sometime during the playoffs.

He's trying to convince the doctors to let him participate in a light skate at the end of this week!

This is the kind of guy you'd want in a foxhole with you.

A heart of a giant!

He seems to be in good spirits also, I asked him about Chara and he calmly said:

'Hate the game, not the player" then slyly whispered "haters gonna hate"

Ok, maybe this didn't happen exactly as described but,

Don't sell this kid short...

and I'll promise not to say I told you so..

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UPDATE:

Talked to Max this afternoon.

He wanted me to tell everyone on the forum that he hopes to be back sometime during the playoffs.

He's trying to convince the doctors to let him participate in a light skate at the end of this week!

This is the kind of guy you'd want in a foxhole with you.

A heart of a giant!

He seems to be in good spirits also, I asked him about Chara and he calmly said:

'Hate the game, not the player" then slyly whispered "haters gonna hate"

Ok, maybe this didn't happen exactly as described but,

Don't sell this kid short...

and I'll promise not to say I told you so..

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

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Yes, I am disgusted with the reaction from the league and the talking heads. Right now I am feeling indifferent, and hardly interested. I feel embarrassed to say that I have spent so much time paying attention to the NHL.

I would never walk away from hockey, I play on the river and down at the local arena, and international hockey will always hold interest.

As I posted in another thread, what the media won't say, is this incident and the reaction to it, after the recent trends in the game are grounds for just not caring about the NHL anymore. Why would they want to fuel a threat to their livelihood, because most outside Montreal don't really care.

The willful stupidity and arrogance of men like Bettman is about as big a turnoff as I have. The fact that the owners of the teams choose to employ him is enough to make me think their league has become a sad thing.

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Just to clarify, I wasn't asking whether this incident is turning people off hockey. Just NHL hockey. The NHL is not the Game Itself.

As for me, I'm still dipping into this site here and there, and I did at least check the score for the Penguins game even if I had no desire at all to watch it. I suspect that I'm probably taking a hiatus but not permanently gone...time will tell. If I'm not re-engaged come playoffs, then something really big has happened in my psyche as a result of this incident.

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I sometimes question the itegrity of the League. With the face of the NHL (crosby) out, I sometimes think that maybe they let this one go. The hit could be argued away, so rather than fuel another Bertuzzi fiasco, when the reputation and popularity of the league in the USA is already low, the powers that be, explained it away as an accident. They had no choice on the Bertuzzi hit, but these sort of things are a blackmark to any sport.

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As for me, I'm still dipping into this site here and there, and I did at least check the score for the Penguins game even if I had no desire at all to watch it. I suspect that I'm probably taking a hiatus but not permanently gone...time will tell. If I'm not re-engaged come playoffs, then something really big has happened in my psyche as a result of this incident.

Say it ain't so Cucumber!! Out of everyone on here, I look forward to your posts the most. Although this incident was indeed ugly and the lack of disipline by the NHL is a huge slap in the face, it has brought together hockey fans alike. Everyone I run into seems to ask me my opinion about the hit. At least people are talking about it, and perhaps some day as a result, this sort of thing will not be tolerated in the league. I'm sure once the playoffs roll around you will start to get excited again, as will all of Habs nation :)

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I believe that the product in the league is excellent and therefore trumps the mishaps and the horrid leadership by ex-NBA Bettman and others at the top. I still love watching every game that I can see on my two lovely channels and online and will go well out of my way searching for news on our team.

I love the habs, I love the men on this team, the way we play and where we are going. I want to see what happens next.

Therefore, I have no problem becoming emotionally attached to this team that has to face adversity from every direction and still win!

The NHL will never be run affectively until they get a hockey guy on top. Someone who knows the fans and the players as people not just numbers or merchandise. Until that day, I will always be here for my habs.

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UPDATE:

Talked to Max this afternoon.

He wanted me to tell everyone on the forum that he hopes to be back sometime during the playoffs.

He's trying to convince the doctors to let him participate in a light skate at the end of this week!

This is the kind of guy you'd want in a foxhole with you.

A heart of a giant!

He seems to be in good spirits also, I asked him about Chara and he calmly said:

'Hate the game, not the player" then slyly whispered "haters gonna hate"

Ok, maybe this didn't happen exactly as described but,

Don't sell this kid short...

and I'll promise not to say I told you so..

lol It's a bet!

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