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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Did the Chara hit crush the Habs' spirit?

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Yes, I know we've won some games since The Hit. Still, there have been a LOT of listeless performances since then; and the contrast with the spirited, choke-chain-tight team that dominated the Bruins in every facet of the game on March 8 is too stark to ignore. I also realize that it's kind of an odd question, because rationally, there seems to be no tangible reason why that 'hit' would sap the will from a team.

But the idea also doesn't seem that far-fetched. I know this because my own spirit as a Habs' fan just hasn't been the same since then. Something about that incident left me profoundly demoralized. It took me two weeks to even bother watching even parts of another game. I'm not really sure why. But it seems to be the case nonetheless.

Am I alone in thinking this? Any insights?

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I think my answer is a pretty obvious one, but I believe that there's a combination of factors. There are two things which can be taken out from The Hit itself. 1) The team witnissed a horrific hit and reacted in the way you're suggesting since then. 2) The actual player who was on the receiving end of the hit was becoming an integral part of our lineup and our team has had a difficult time filling the gap. Personally, I think the latter is more responsible for the team's play since 'The Hit'. Obviously it could just as easily be a regular slump, but I believe you're right in saying that we've been a different team since the incident. It has definitely been a terrible week for the team, but like yourself I believe that we will bounce back soon enough. The team definitely still has spirit, I'm just hopeful that their available skill level will allow them to succeed for the rest of the season and playoffs.

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Yes, I know we've won some games since The Hit. Still, there have been a LOT of listeless performances since then; and the contrast with the spirited, choke-chain-tight team that dominated the Bruins in every facet of the game on March 8 is too stark to ignore. I also realize that it's kind of an odd question, because rationally, there seems to be no tangible reason why that 'hit' would sap the will from a team.

But the idea also doesn't seem that far-fetched. I know this because my own spirit as a Habs' fan just hasn't been the same since then. Something about that incident left me profoundly demoralized. It took me two weeks to even bother watching even parts of another game. I'm not really sure why. But it seems to be the case nonetheless.

Am I alone in thinking this? Any insights?

No not really. I think all our injuries have just finally caught up with us. Plek especially (and to a lesser extent Halperin and Darche) played like they are still injured. Not only did Plek get knocked down repeatedly tonight but he seemed to have trouble getting back up a number of times.

Also teams lately have been emphasizing the forecheck against us. Our current Dmen have too much trouble when pressured.

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I agree with all of the above, I was also thinking that with the pax incident, and the fans calling for blood and presuming that the Habs were gonna play desperate hockey to avenge the pax injury has been emotionally draining , and with all the adversity it has caused them to overthink and play tight.

I'm stealing this one from Mr. Price, but I think the fans should chill, and appreciate that were in the playoff picture, and look forward to Pax coming back., rather then still dwelling on the past that we can't change. I thought the fans were embarrassing tonight. I just don't see the logic in booing your own team or players. Those are the fans that embarrass us.

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I don't think the Patches hit has anything to do with the current state of the Habs. Seems like a plain and simple slump.

As stated above, injuries are probably the biggest factor.

It could also be that once the team realized that they would make the playoffs some of them might have checked out and gone on a mental vacation.

It must have been a long and tiring year and I think it's fair to say they look like they're coasting right now compared to the last several months where they looked pretty good.

If the current play really is being effected by the hit and losing a key player then the Habs really need to draw inspiration from the Pens.

96 points and a solid hold on fourth place missing Crosby and Malkin..... that's a success story.

I think they'll pull in the reins and get it together for, at least some of, next weeks games.

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I bet some of them are playing a bit more carefully. Looking who is behind them before digging in the corners and stuff.

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we have seen this stuff before remember Zednik or Koivu. Nah got nothing to do with it. these guys are pros. You think they never saw a guy get hit before? come on. I played hockey back in junior many years ago and there were some very vicious hits that really destroyed careers. You can't let it affect you and they don't.

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Yes, I know we've won some games since The Hit. Still, there have been a LOT of listeless performances since then; and the contrast with the spirited, choke-chain-tight team that dominated the Bruins in every facet of the game on March 8 is too stark to ignore. I also realize that it's kind of an odd question, because rationally, there seems to be no tangible reason why that 'hit' would sap the will from a team.

But the idea also doesn't seem that far-fetched. I know this because my own spirit as a Habs' fan just hasn't been the same since then. Something about that incident left me profoundly demoralized. It took me two weeks to even bother watching even parts of another game. I'm not really sure why. But it seems to be the case nonetheless.

Am I alone in thinking this? Any insights?

I feel the same way as you CC. I have been away from hockey for almost a month now, because of that Boston game. It just seemed the right time for me to back away from the Canadiens and the obsessive nature of this team (including the Habsworld community). And it looks like the Habs followed me on my vacation since they've played like crap ever since. For some strange reason, I decided to "check-in" on this message board today. Then I saw your post. Too weird!

Still don't think I can watch the team until the playoffs though.

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So... After getting razzed constantly, and not getting any support from a non Hab fan, I am really starting to question myself about the Chara hit. We have all said what we think of it, but everybody, media, other hockey fans, everyone thinks it was a good hockey play. I'm at the point where I just ignore people about the subject. I just can't believe that nobody from the media is willing to see it the way a few of us do. He broke a rule (interference). There was bad blood between the two. He lied after and said that he didn't know where he was on the ice or who was on the ice. He also said he leaned and jumped into stanchion, when he clearly smashed his head into it. I hate to bring this up, but I find it demoralizing. I've been a hockey fan for many years and normally call these things quite well.

Edited by BCHabnut

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So... After getting razzed constantly, and not getting any support from a non Hab fan, I am really starting to question myself about the Chara hit. We have all said what we think of it, but everybody, media, other hockey fans, everyone thinks it was a good hockey play. I'm at the point where I just ignore people about the subject. I just can't believe that nobody from the media is willing to see it the way a few of us do. He broke a rule (interference). There was bad blood between the two. He lied after and said that he didn't know where he was on the ice or who was on the ice. He also said he leaned and jumped into stanchion, when he clearly smashed his head into it. I hate to bring this up, but I find it demoralizing. I've been a hockey fan for many years and normally call these things quite well.

People are only going to see what they want to see.

Ultimately, fans of other teams will look the other way because the guy that got hurt wasn't on their team. Pacioretty wasn't one of their top forwards.

I also get the sense that for every one Habs fan that's out there, there are 2 that can't stand, what they see as, the whining, cheating Montreal Canadiens.

If Montreal goes up against Boston in the playoffs, we'll get the last laugh yet.

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So... After getting razzed constantly, and not getting any support from a non Hab fan, I am really starting to question myself about the Chara hit. We have all said what we think of it, but everybody, media, other hockey fans, everyone thinks it was a good hockey play. I'm at the point where I just ignore people about the subject. I just can't believe that nobody from the media is willing to see it the way a few of us do. He broke a rule (interference). There was bad blood between the two. He lied after and said that he didn't know where he was on the ice or who was on the ice. He also said he leaned and jumped into stanchion, when he clearly smashed his head into it. I hate to bring this up, but I find it demoralizing. I've been a hockey fan for many years and normally call these things quite well.

I have learned to accept that everybody looks at things through their own spectrum. If they do not like the Canadiens, the odds are they think the hit is fine. If they don't care either way, they likely don't really care enough to examine it (think how intently you studied the Booth or Savard hits) and don't really engage in the debate. So what you are left with is Canadiens fans and non-Canadiens fans debating the merits of it. The media in general are lazy idiots (it's a generalization, but the shining stars are few and far between). Plenty of the media also fall into the "Leaf fan" category which should be self explanatory as to why they think it was ok.

Fans are irrational. I had a Leaf fan tell me that Niedermayer faked being knocked out by Domi's elbow in the 2001 playoffs to get Domi suspended. They fully believed it even though the Hall of Famer Niedermayer missed game 6 and 7. They convinced themselves that the Devils decided to remove their best player from the ice for 2 games to secure a 4th liners suspension.

It was dirty and it is unimportant what anybody else thinks.

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It was dirty and it is unimportant what anybody else thinks.

bang on!

But this is Hockey. A glorious, fast-paced, dangerous game that isn't fair in the slightest. Its why we love to hate it and why we can never fully turn away.

Its times like this as a fan that make the good times that much sweeter..

Its why grown men cry when they hoist the cup.

Damn I should really be writing Tim Horton's commercials...

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I have learned to accept that everybody looks at things through their own spectrum. If they do not like the Canadiens, the odds are they think the hit is fine. If they don't care either way, they likely don't really care enough to examine it (think how intently you studied the Booth or Savard hits) and don't really engage in the debate. So what you are left with is Canadiens fans and non-Canadiens fans debating the merits of it. The media in general are lazy idiots (it's a generalization, but the shining stars are few and far between). Plenty of the media also fall into the "Leaf fan" category which should be self explanatory as to why they think it was ok.

Fans are irrational. I had a Leaf fan tell me that Niedermayer faked being knocked out by Domi's elbow in the 2001 playoffs to get Domi suspended. They fully believed it even though the Hall of Famer Niedermayer missed game 6 and 7. They convinced themselves that the Devils decided to remove their best player from the ice for 2 games to secure a 4th liners suspension.

It was dirty and it is unimportant what anybody else thinks.

I cant feel sorry for niedermayer at all after what he did to Peter Forsberg in the world championship finals a bunch of years ago. Thing is I feel so helpless after the Chara hit is mostly because noone on our team could take a fight with him anyway. Its like he is the 12 year old playing with the 9 year olds. If he decides to be mean noone can do anything about it.

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I cant feel sorry for niedermayer at all after what he did to Peter Forsberg in the world championship finals a bunch of years ago. Thing is I feel so helpless after the Chara hit is mostly because noone on our team could take a fight with him anyway. Its like he is the 12 year old playing with the 9 year olds. If he decides to be mean noone can do anything about it.

Chin up. If we beat them in the playoffs, that will send the 12 year old home pouting.

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Good post CC

I think you are right on. Pax unconscious on the ice pulled us from excitement and entertainment to mortality. The great escape could not escape. We are human. We are one in a real way, and the seriousness of Pax's cruel fate weighed heavily upon us as it should if we are human.

Koivu's eye injury ended that series. No one was the same. Why should they be able to play like they are the same. We are not the same. The game shifted into perspective as a game; merely a relatively insignificant passtime. A diversion. To divert us from things like young men nearly losing their lives or ability to walk being part of the greater game that is not a game.

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Good post CC

I think you are right on. Pax unconscious on the ice pulled us from excitement and entertainment to mortality. The great escape could not escape. We are human. We are one in a real way, and the seriousness of Pax's cruel fate weighed heavily upon us as it should if we are human.

Koivu's eye injury ended that series. No one was the same. Why should they be able to play like they are the same. We are not the same. The game shifted into perspective as a game; merely a relatively insignificant passtime. A diversion. To divert us from things like young men nearly losing their lives or ability to walk being part of the greater game that is not a game.

You wouldn't happen to be Ron MacLean posting under an alias are you?

If not, I nominate Toronthab for the job of lead writer of Hockey Night in Canada pre-game interstitials.

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Good post CC

I think you are right on. Pax unconscious on the ice pulled us from excitement and entertainment to mortality. The great escape could not escape. We are human. We are one in a real way, and the seriousness of Pax's cruel fate weighed heavily upon us as it should if we are human.

Koivu's eye injury ended that series. No one was the same. Why should they be able to play like they are the same. We are not the same. The game shifted into perspective as a game; merely a relatively insignificant passtime. A diversion. To divert us from things like young men nearly losing their lives or ability to walk being part of the greater game that is not a game.

I don't know if this is true.

I have played high level sports and when somebody's life was put in danger, but they were ultimately ok two things would happen.

1. That really sucks what happened to "insert player here" but the self centered athlete thinks "it won't happen to me"

2. The same athlete does not want to confront the dangers of the game and focuses on other areas.

Not every player is close. Some will be more affected by others but I don't think they lost that series because the players weren't the same, I think they lost that series because their best player was removed from the equation. A player who could have made a difference in four 1 goal losses.

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The real question is..... will we crush the bruins spirit again like we have so many times in the plyoffs. I bet yes cause I hear them now........THIS IS FOR PATCHES you iceholes.

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The real question is..... will we crush the bruins spirit again like we have so many times in the plyoffs. I bet yes cause I hear them now........THIS IS FOR PATCHES you iceholes.

exactly. Only in my dream scenario we first take down the Flyers to avenge the loss last season. Then Patches comes back in round 2 to help finish what the Bruins started....

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I was thinking about the difference in class between Montreal and Boston and this came to mind. Remember back when in that 8-6 game in Boston Price had Thomas completely at his mercy and could have pounded the living shit out of him, but was honorable and didn't.

Next thing we know they are pounding and gooning our players and then the Chara incident, including pregame comments from the real douchebag Marchand, and things are quite clear.

Boston deserves bad karma and we deserve good.

:thumbs_up::habslogo::thumbs_up:

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I was thinking about the difference in class between Montreal and Boston and this came to mind. Remember back when in that 8-6 game in Boston Price had Thomas completely at his mercy and could have pounded the living shit out of him, but was honorable and didn't.

Next thing we know they are pounding and gooning our players and then the Chara incident, including pregame comments from the real douchebag Marchand, and things are quite clear.

Boston deserves bad karma and we deserve good.

:thumbs_up::habslogo::thumbs_up:

No sure that was so much an honorable move as it was putting the future of their teams ahead of a fight.

Don't think either of them really wanted to risk breaking their hand during that.

+1 on the karma thing though.

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I don't know if this is true.

I have played high level sports and when somebody's life was put in danger, but they were ultimately ok two things would happen.

1. That really sucks what happened to "insert player here" but the self centered athlete thinks "it won't happen to me"

2. The same athlete does not want to confront the dangers of the game and focuses on other areas.

Not every player is close. Some will be more affected by others but I don't think they lost that series because the players weren't the same, I think they lost that series because their best player was removed from the equation. A player who could have made a difference in four 1 goal losses.

Hi Walmsley

Young people are, I agree at least superficially immune to reality o a conscious level. But they are also inescapably real, like it or not. I once read an interesting sign at the corner of Cooper Street and Elgin in Ottawa. It said that evil is the pursuit of an illusion nurtured by an inablility to face reality. Coping mechanisms, to use psychological jargon, like the sense of bulletproofness, are known to be just that, but this knowledge is denied. Ask a teen if he will die like everyone else and the idea for almost all outside of leukemia wards is a far off planet, well beyond his radar.

But still we are profoundly impacted by impacts with profound implications. That the kid pushes his denial button and jumps on the ice is true, but that doesn't mean he isn't significantly affected all the same. Augustine's defninition of evil, is the best I have ever read. He wrote that evil is the absence of a 'good' that should be there. In the case of Charo's hit, it was the absence of an attitude of respect for another human being that should have been there, for Pax it was the absence and loss of consciousness and capacity that could have turned lifelong; for the league it was the absence of respect for the wider context of human society and its principles which warranted at least a significant penalty for reckless disregard. For us it was the absence of a natural and fairly innocent enthusiasm and and the wonderful spirit that emerges in the ballet of a beautifully played game.

In the end, we were diverted from our diversions and not entertained by our entertainment. The team too suffered this inevitable absence and became a team without its essence, its spirit. It has been argued that we are material beings with a spiritual side, but I say we are spiritual beings with a material side. We need both to play the best game in creation.

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very well put TorontoHAB

the way I see it,

Max is but an angel sent to extol the virtues of the great hockey gods

or

Chara is the Devil

Max is Jesus

Bettman is Pontius Pilate

Maurice Richard is God

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very well put TorontoHAB

the way I see it,

Max is but an angel sent to extol the virtues of the great hockey gods

or

Chara is the Devil

Max is Jesus

Bettman is Pontius Pilate

Maurice Richard is God

Very good Yeahbud. I hadn't figured out all the theological personas, but I can certainly agree that its pretty hard to beat Maurice Richard as at least a minor deity! While Max can walk on water...especially in the winter, I think he'll have to do a little better than rising from the ice, to beat out JC in the starring role. Er.... that was not Trembley of course...

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NHL suspends neanderthalic behaviour!

The NHL suspended Stoll for a meeting on Friday, after he knocked the Sharks defenseman Ian White from behind in the first game of the series.

For me it was the NHL's denial of reckless intent in Chara's supposed 'hockey play'.

This suspension shows to me that they are finally taking this issue for what it really is.

Not 'hockey play',

but reckless endangerment of a colleague's livelyhood... never mind life.

EDIT

I meant starting to take issue seriously...

And with that I am starting to take the board of governors more seriously.

I should hope they actually believe that a player's health is a little more important than protecting Gronks.

Edited by Mitch

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