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BrenDittero

Next season for the Habs

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Great run by the Habs in 2010 / 2011.

Since we're out for now and the 'next year' talk is already starting, here's the thread.

Edited by BrenDittero

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I'll think about this tomorrow.

My first thought is that I wouldn't be disappointed with an almost identical team. I feel like there was a significant amount of growth in some of the young players that the team's offense is much deeper now than it was in October. Then factor in a healthy D and the team is a contender.

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I'll think about this tomorrow.

My first thought is that I wouldn't be disappointed with an almost identical team. I feel like there was a significant amount of growth in some of the young players that the team's offense is much deeper now than it was in October. Then factor in a healthy D and the team is a contender.

I too will be more coherent tomorrow, but what the hell... ^_^

Yes, standing basically pat is a viable option and one I wouldn't necessarily oppose. My overriding concern is that we re-sign Wiz or replace him with a comparable player (otherwise we would not be 'standing pat,' we'd be regressing). We will also need to add depth defencemen, because Hammer's minutes will not be easy to replace. More size up front would obviously be nice too, although Patches represents that to a degree and it's easier said than done.

We need a backup who can actually play in the NHL IMHO. One injury to Price and we might not have even made the playoffs, with that piece of crap Auld.

The elephant in the room is of course Gomez. If you could liberate the team of his salary *and* replace him with a middling-quality C, you might have some loose change to further strengthen the club. Although he wasn't incredible this series, I thought he did at least look like a legitimate #2 C, so it's become at least possible to imagine the Habs as contenders with him on the club. I do hope, however, that management turns over every stone investigating possible upgrades.

It occurs to me that Mario Tremblay has a track record as an assistant coach with conservative head coaches. Dare I speculate on him as a possible Muller replacement - ? :youpi:

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We need a backup who can actually play in the NHL IMHO. One injury to Price and we might not have even made the playoffs, with that piece of crap Auld.

+1

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Ok here I go..Awesome effort by the Canadiens against the Bruins...game 7 in OT we cannot be ashamed of as fans.

For 2011/2012 Campaign:

Hamrlik-GONE (he farts dust)

Spacek-BUYOUT (awful defensively and no offensive push)

Moen-Walk

Kostitsyn-Walk (not physical enough this series)

next seasons lineup

Tanguay-Plekanec-Cammalleri

Gionta-Gomez (unless Miracle trade happens)-Pacioretty

Pouliot-Eller-Desharnais

White-Kopescky-Upshall

Gorges-Markov

Wiz-Subban

Sopel-Weber

Gill (or Spacek)

Price

...I hope we exercise Valiquette (he was a solid backup for Rangers a few yrs back)

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One thing I'll add is I would like to see us add at least one physically dangerous player to our roster - a Ference/Torres/Cooke type who can be relied upon to injure opposing players. It is clear that the NHL has no interest in protecting players, and we cannot be the only team to meekly accept being on the losing end of cheap-shots all season/playoff long. It's not that I think these type of guys have much of a deterrent effect; it's that we might have won the series had, say, someone put out a Bruin in the way that Chara put out Pacioretty. In short, we are at a competitive disadvantage because we do not have a player or two of this type, as we can rely on the opposition to deliberately try to injure us.

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Ok here I go..Awesome effort by the Canadiens against the Bruins...game 7 in OT we cannot be ashamed of as fans.

For 2011/2012 Campaign:

Hamrlik-GONE (he farts dust)

Spacek-BUYOUT (awful defensively and no offensive push)

Moen-Walk

Kostitsyn-Walk (not physical enough this series)

next seasons lineup

Tanguay-Plekanec-Cammalleri

Gionta-Gomez (unless Miracle trade happens)-Pacioretty

Pouliot-Eller-Desharnais

White-Kopescky-Upshall

Gorges-Markov

Wiz-Subban

Sopel-Weber

Gill (or Spacek)

Price

...I hope we exercise Valiquette (he was a solid backup for Rangers a few yrs back)

This would get me ashamed of as fan.

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Moen-Walk

I think Moen has one more year on his contract, although I echo your sentiment.

I'm not sure Tanguay will be affordable next year.

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I think Moen has one more year on his contract, although I echo your sentiment.

I'm not sure Tanguay will be affordable next year.

The only positive thing I can think about bringing back Tanguay is that I could wear my Habs Tanguay Jersey again since I totally did not go yet to the Bell Centre boutique to get it changed for a Cammy name on the back...

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One thing I'll add is I would like to see us add at least one physically dangerous player to our roster - a Ference/Torres/Cooke type who can be relied upon to injure opposing players. It is clear that the NHL has no interest in protecting players, and we cannot be the only team to meekly accept being on the losing end of cheap-shots all season/playoff long. It's not that I think these type of guys have much of a deterrent effect; it's that we might have won the series had, say, someone put out a Bruin in the way that Chara put out Pacioretty. In short, we are at a competitive disadvantage because we do not have a player or two of this type, as we can rely on the opposition to deliberately try to injure us.

I completely understand your opinion, but as fans of a team that lost an important player, I can't imagine why we would want a goon - specifically to injure or end careers.

A bit more toughness is maybe a case that can be argued, but that's about it.

Boston's season is most likely over in the next 4-6 games.

Montreal is in a much better spot to grow and be the powerhouse we all hope for next year.

I can't say the same for the Bruins. They've got what they've got and I can't imagine it getting that much better.

Edited by BrenDittero

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One thing I'll add is I would like to see us add at least one physically dangerous player to our roster - a Ference/Torres/Cooke type who can be relied upon to injure opposing players. It is clear that the NHL has no interest in protecting players, and we cannot be the only team to meekly accept being on the losing end of cheap-shots all season/playoff long. It's not that I think these type of guys have much of a deterrent effect; it's that we might have won the series had, say, someone put out a Bruin in the way that Chara put out Pacioretty. In short, we are at a competitive disadvantage because we do not have a player or two of this type, as we can rely on the opposition to deliberately try to injure us.

I would like a big player who is mean. Not a dirty, injury giver like Cooke but a guy like Pronger (although Pronger is dirty as hell). Maybe a larger version of Begin.

I don't know who that is but that is who I want (maybe I am talking about a guy like Cooke).

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I think the line up is pretty set. For those who said get rid of Moen? Why exactly? He is a tird liner asked to play top minutes. Let him him do his job. He is a good player.

Pacioretty Gomez Gionta

AK46 Pleks Cammi

Torres Eller White

Moen Decharnais Open

Pyatt

They need more grit and toughness up front. I like having a shut down line, but i don't think they will be able to move Gomez for at least one more year.

Defense is where the questions come in.

I think you can resign Markov 3-4 mill. I just don't think anyone gives him a big offer and he loves the habs.

Markov Gorges

Subban I would get a player like Allen or someone in that mold to pair up with Subban. I could live with Gill one more year at 2 mill or so.

Spacek Wisnewski i would give him 4-5 years 5 mill a year.

Weber

I don't care if they sign Auld or not, he doesn't play as bad as people say. he had a winning record. I think JM didn't use the back up enough, backups should play around 20 games per year.

The offense needs to get better.

The defense needs to get tougher and better in front of Price. The need to be more mobile as well.

I'm not a huge JM fan, however the results speak for themselves, he probably has won more playoff games the last 2 years than any team in a 2 year span in like 15-20 years.

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One thing I'll add is I would like to see us add at least one physically dangerous player to our roster - a Ference/Torres/Cooke type who can be relied upon to injure opposing players. It is clear that the NHL has no interest in protecting players, and we cannot be the only team to meekly accept being on the losing end of cheap-shots all season/playoff long. It's not that I think these type of guys have much of a deterrent effect; it's that we might have won the series had, say, someone put out a Bruin in the way that Chara put out Pacioretty. In short, we are at a competitive disadvantage because we do not have a player or two of this type, as we can rely on the opposition to deliberately try to injure us.

What do you mean, Ference "isn't that type of player" and neither is Chara.

You know, because video is unimportant, it is the inane statements that you make in an interview scrum that defines you.

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I am not convinced the Eller is going to be a star yet, but he made some progress this year. While we have some decent young guys and a couple of great ones, we need to retool the D and beef up the top two lines.

I think Pacs can earn a solid spot on the top two lines, but we need to replace Gomez with a bigger, more reliable number 1 guy. (imo, we will be a contender when we have the depth to make Pleks a 2nd line center , or 1a 1b situation). We also need to add a true power forward to the mix. I am fine with Cammy and Gionta if placed on properly balanced lines. We need to be stronger in the slot to take this to the next level.

I was also a bit disappointed in our "role guys", who didn't do very much. Moen, Darche, Pyatt, etc.. Des was great, but his is really a younger, faster Gomez. We missed the contributions of a Laps, Begin, or Moore type player. Pouliot has way more skill, none of the heart of those types of players.

It will be interesting to see where we go on D. Spacek is at best a bottom pairing guy. Gill is old and slow, but if his minutes are limited I would love to have him back. He is both a leader and solid on the PK. I am not sure about Wis and Markov. Right now, we have neither and I am not sure we can get them both back next year. Markov is a risky proposition right now.

As for Auld, he was 6-2-2 with a .914 sv%. I find little to complain about with him, given how few games he got to play. It is not easy playing that sparsely while putting up those numbers. Of course we are reliant on Price, but we tried the 'two top goalies" and we couldn't sustain it. I think we need to go another year or two with Auld, or someone like him, then bring in a young goalie who can play behind Price for a few years before expecting to move up.

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For 2011/2012 Campaign:

Spacek-BUYOUT (awful defensively and no offensive push)

...I hope we exercise Valiquette (he was a solid backup for Rangers a few yrs back)

A Spacek buyout is a 100% cap hit because of the 35+ situation of his contract. The Habs would be insane to buy him out as they'd save nothing. Valiquette stunk in the KHL this past season (9 wins in 35 games), he'll be lucky to get another deal out there let alone in the NHL. That was a creative, outside the box pick though, I'll give you that.

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I completely understand your opinion, but as fans of a team that lost an important player, I can't imagine why we would want a goon - specifically to injure or end careers.

A bit more toughness is maybe a case that can be argued, but that's about it.

Boston's season is most likely over in the next 4-6 games.

Montreal is in a much better spot to grow and be the powerhouse we all hope for next year.

I can't say the same for the Bruins. They've got what they've got and I can't imagine it betting that much better.

Well, I wasn't asking for a goon. I was asking for a Matt Cooke type: the dirty bastard who can take a regular shift and occasionally take someone's head off. However, on reflection this may have been sour grapes...I just waver on this question. On the one hand, I'm tired of other teams (specifically but not exclusively Boston) doing it and getting away with it. We were just lucky that Spacek and Halpern weren't more seriously damaged, and Chara's attempted murder arguably made a difference in this series. And this leads to the logical conclusion that WE need to be doing it, too. They take out Patches? Fine, Cook/Torres/whoever takes out Bergeron. If we'd done that, we'd quite possibly be the team heading off to the second round. Injuring the opponent works because the NHL wants it to work. Beyond that, we had a lot of success with guys like Corson, Ludwig and Chelios in the late '80s. The Habs team of my youth was just as likely to be the aggressor as the victim.

On the other hand, there's the case that the Habs have stood and continue to stand for something better than that, just as we stood for something better than goonery in the 1970s (see toward the end): http://habsloyalist.blogspot.com/2011/04/aftermath-over.html

I'll settle for adding a bit of physical robustness, I suppose. A Hartnell type would be great. I know that Gauthier wants to add size; whether he can manage to add quality size is another question.

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Well, I wasn't asking for a goon. I was asking for a Matt Cooke type: the dirty bastard who can take a regular shift and occasionally take someone's head off. However, on reflection this may have been sour grapes...I just waver on this question. On the one hand, I'm tired of other teams (specifically but not exclusively Boston) doing it and getting away with it. We were just lucky that Spacek and Halpern weren't more seriously damaged, and Chara's attempted murder arguably made a difference in this series. And this leads to the logical conclusion that WE need to be doing it, too. They take out Patches? Fine, Cook/Torres/whoever takes out Bergeron. If we'd done that, we'd quite possibly be the team heading off to the second round. Injuring the opponent works because the NHL wants it to work. Beyond that, we had a lot of success with guys like Corson, Ludwig and Chelios in the late '80s. The Habs team of my youth was just as likely to be the aggressor as the victim.

On the other hand, there's the case that the Habs have stood and continue to stand for something better than that, just as we stood for something better than goonery in the 1970s (see toward the end): http://habsloyalist....rmath-over.html

I'll settle for adding a bit of physical robustness, I suppose. A Hartnell type would be great. I know that Gauthier wants to add size; whether he can manage to add quality size is another question.

I completely agree with you on the idea of adding some size and take no sh*t attitude as long as it can be backed up with moderate talent.

I like the idea of balancing out the team just a bit more so we have equal parts speed and size.

However I don't agree that the Habs need to start injuring opponents to get a shot at the cup.

If it happens, so be it, but I don't think it makes sense as strategy.

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Well I am very optimistic about our future for the next 5 years.

I think (Y)Emelin might finally come over and he might be the mean (but talented) player we need.

I'd also like Ramo as a backup (but he might be too good to accept that role for long).

I think we'll have Gomez for at least 1 more year. After next year his salary is much more manageable (even if his cap hit remains high).

Finally, I am quite sure Tanguay won't sign here after the way he was treated.

I am happy with standing pat although we do need to sign Wiz if e don't make any big change.

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I am not convinced the Eller is going to be a star yet, but he made some progress this year. While we have some decent young guys and a couple of great ones, we need to retool the D and beef up the top two lines.

I think Pacs can earn a solid spot on the top two lines, but we need to replace Gomez with a bigger, more reliable number 1 guy. (imo, we will be a contender when we have the depth to make Pleks a 2nd line center , or 1a 1b situation). We also need to add a true power forward to the mix. I am fine with Cammy and Gionta if placed on properly balanced lines. We need to be stronger in the slot to take this to the next level.

I was also a bit disappointed in our "role guys", who didn't do very much. Moen, Darche, Pyatt, etc.. Des was great, but his is really a younger, faster Gomez. We missed the contributions of a Laps, Begin, or Moore type player. Pouliot has way more skill, none of the heart of those types of players.

It will be interesting to see where we go on D. Spacek is at best a bottom pairing guy. Gill is old and slow, but if his minutes are limited I would love to have him back. He is both a leader and solid on the PK. I am not sure about Wis and Markov. Right now, we have neither and I am not sure we can get them both back next year. Markov is a risky proposition right now.

As for Auld, he was 6-2-2 with a .914 sv%. I find little to complain about with him, given how few games he got to play. It is not easy playing that sparsely while putting up those numbers. Of course we are reliant on Price, but we tried the 'two top goalies" and we couldn't sustain it. I think we need to go another year or two with Auld, or someone like him, then bring in a young goalie who can play behind Price for a few years before expecting to move up.

Nobody is suggesting a 1A backup, but Auld is barely an NHL goaltender. Playing excuses are not legit, he had the easiest workload possible with the Leafs/Isles/Panters etc. The only playoff team he faced won 1 playoff game. .914 SV% is not impressive when you are playing teams that probably have an expected save percentage of about .915. They need a guy who can bridge a gap should Price get injured, I am not convinced that Auld could do that for even 5-6 games like a guy like Enroth did for the Sabres.

As for Eller, he doesn't need to be a star, teams don't have 3-4 stars today, if they do they become top heavy and capped out with little depth. The Habs are in a good position because they have two stars locked in for next season at about $4M and legit support players like Eller, Pacioretty, Desharnais, White and Weber who will get better and outperform their contracts over the next 2-3 seasons. Hockey is about elite players and depth. The Hawks won last season because they had Kane, Toews and Keith, but they also relied heavily on Byfuglien, Ladd, Bolland etc.

The albatross for this team is Gomez. Not in the sense in which they can provide this type of season again, but in the sense that he eats up the advantage gained by PK and Price's cheap cap hits. If you tell the league you have Gomez/Price and Subban locked up for $11M combined they say not bad, but when the majority of that is wrapped up in the worst of the 3 it becomes a problem. Gomez becomes the thing keeping this team from becoming a Cup contender. Right now he is eating the Superstar savings in 3rd line production. The Habs can maintain what they are right now with him, but if they actually had a $7M player's production this team is among the top 5-6 in the league.

As always fans are looking at this team from the perspective of today.

I am not convinced the Eller is going to be a star yet

This is what happened in the shortsighted prism of October 2010. Is Price better than Halak? Is Subban ready for the NHL? Is Pacioretty a bust? Is Desharnais too small? etc. etc.

What if Eller makes the Pacioretty leap in 2011-12? What if DD is the player we saw in Game 6? What if Weber morphs into Mark Streit 2.0?

The positives outweigh the negatives moving forward and if Gauthier pulls the right strings this team will have a nice Cup window in the next 2-3 years.

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Nobody is suggesting a 1A backup, but Auld is barely an NHL goaltender. Playing excuses are not legit, he had the easiest workload possible with the Leafs/Isles/Panters etc. The only playoff team he faced won 1 playoff game. .914 SV% is not impressive when you are playing teams that probably have an expected save percentage of about .915. They need a guy who can bridge a gap should Price get injured, I am not convinced that Auld could do that for even 5-6 games like a guy like Enroth did for the Sabres.

As for Eller, he doesn't need to be a star, teams don't have 3-4 stars today, if they do they become top heavy and capped out with little depth. The Habs are in a good position because they have two stars locked in for next season at about $4M and legit support players like Eller, Pacioretty, Desharnais, White and Weber who will get better and outperform their contracts over the next 2-3 seasons. Hockey is about elite players and depth. The Hawks won last season because they had Kane, Toews and Keith, but they also relied heavily on Byfuglien, Ladd, Bolland etc.

The albatross for this team is Gomez. Not in the sense in which they can provide this type of season again, but in the sense that he eats up the advantage gained by PK and Price's cheap cap hits. If you tell the league you have Gomez/Price and Subban locked up for $11M combined they say not bad, but when the majority of that is wrapped up in the worst of the 3 it becomes a problem. Gomez becomes the thing keeping this team from becoming a Cup contender. Right now he is eating the Superstar savings in 3rd line production. The Habs can maintain what they are right now with him, but if they actually had a $7M player's production this team is among the top 5-6 in the league.

As always fans are looking at this team from the perspective of today.

This is what happened in the shortsighted prism of October 2010. Is Price better than Halak? Is Subban ready for the NHL? Is Pacioretty a bust? Is Desharnais too small? etc. etc.

What if Eller makes the Pacioretty leap in 2011-12? What if DD is the player we saw in Game 6? What if Weber morphs into Mark Streit 2.0?

The positives outweigh the negatives moving forward and if Gauthier pulls the right strings this team will have a nice Cup window in the next 2-3 years.

I agree with you. However, we should note that Tampa and Boston are also teams with considerable young talent, not to mention Crosby-Malkin and a Washington team that may be good for years. We have a 'Cup window' opening but that is not even remotely close to a guarantee of even making the semi-finals. (I feel the need to sound notes of caution on this front, because the last two times I bought into this sort of narrative - 1996 and 2008 - all we got was ashes). Optimism is appropriate, but we'll still need a great deal to go right.

As for Gomez: I haven't read a single defence of him over the last few months and I've been as vocal as anyone in condemning his crapulence. But Wamsley, what would you do? Would you bury him in the minors or deal him this summer? If so, what do you do for a 2nd-line C? Try a platoon approach with Eller, Desharnais, and maybe a Halpern-type? Go out and sign an Arnott as a stop-gap? Just asking, because it's time we move beyond the 'dump Gomez' argument, which is convincing, but will only be truly realistic if we have some clue about how to fill his roster spot.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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I agree with you. However, we should note that Tampa and Boston are also teams with considerable young talent, not to mention Crosby-Malkin and a Washington team that may be good for years. We have a 'Cup window' opening but that is not even remotely close to a guarantee of even making the semi-finals. (I feel the need to sound notes of caution on this front, because the last two times I bought into this sort of narrative - 1996 and 2008 - all we got was ashes).

:1gohabs:Optimism is appropriate, but we'll still need a great deal to go right.

As for Gomez: I haven't read a single defence of him over the last few months and I've been as vocal as anyone in condemning his crapulence.:flaming:

But Wamsley, what would you do? Would you bury him in the minors or deal him this summer? If so, what do you do for a 2nd-line C? Try a platoon approach with Eller, Desharnais, and maybe a Halpern-type? Go out and sign an Arnott as a stop-gap? Just asking, because it's time we move beyond the 'dump Gomez' argument, which is convincing, but will only be truly realistic if we have some clue about how to fill his roster spot.

As much as I agree that Gomez has most likely played his worst year of hockey, to me this undoubtedly points me in the direction of believing that he has nowhere but up to pad his stats. Therefore why trade or give up on a player when in all likely-hood his value for trading can realistically only go up in value.

I'm not Wamsley, or so my psychiatrist says :nuts: , but I say keep him.

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As much as people say the team needs more scoring, bigger forwards, etc...where's the D? There are currently 2 under contract for next season, Spacek and Subban, and a sprinkling of RFAs, UFAs. If the strategy for a strong team is building from the net out, the D needs a serious look. Gill is the closest to a "shutdown" D, but while he has reach, he's hardly imposing out there. Between a brittle Markov and Wisniewski, I'd still prefer to retain Markov if a choice has to be made. Gorges is a solid defensive dman, but pretty much the rest of the crew leans more towards the offensive spectrum then defensive.

Markov, Subban, Spacek (I know, but I'd pencil him more O than D), Wis, Weber.

I'd say Picard, Sopel, Mara, Wiz, and Hamrlik will be gone. I'd give Gill a 50-50 shot at returning. Markov will be re-signed. As much as we had an overhaul on the forwards a couple of years ago, we're potentially looking at a similar turnover on the blueline this year. What stinks is that there really aren't any D on the farm that can step in any time soon.

You have an undersized D, with undersized forwards trying to support that D. Not saying all things are bad on the backend, but I'd look there before starting an overhaul on the forwards.

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One thing I'll add is I would like to see us add at least one physically dangerous player to our roster - a Ference/Torres/Cooke type who can be relied upon to injure opposing players. It is clear that the NHL has no interest in protecting players, and we cannot be the only team to meekly accept being on the losing end of cheap-shots all season/playoff long. It's not that I think these type of guys have much of a deterrent effect; it's that we might have won the series had, say, someone put out a Bruin in the way that Chara put out Pacioretty. In short, we are at a competitive disadvantage because we do not have a player or two of this type, as we can rely on the opposition to deliberately try to injure us.

This post disgusts me.

Going out to injury a player intentionally is so far away from Les Canadiens hockey its not funny.

If our team starts signing guys who can 'be relied upon to injure opposing players' we are just compounding the problem.

We need to be leaders on this, we shouldn't fight fire with fire.

The headshots and injuries will no doubt continue until the NHL old boys are broken up, but in the short term it doesn't help to further promote this kind of play.

We are better than this.

I wouldn't want to win if we had taken Chara out with a dirty play.

Although I was happy to see a more measured response from you later in the thread, and while I do agree with a lot of what your saying, I felt I had to take you to task on this.

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Although I was happy to see a more measured response from you later in the thread, and while I do agree with a lot of what your saying, I felt I had to take you to task on this.

Regarding CCs post, I'll add this: While not promoting signing a guy that will intentionally (and illegally) injure another player, it sure would be nice to have a guy that opposing players know they need to keep their head up around. There isn't a single player on the roster in that mold.

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This post disgusts me.

Going out to injury a player intentionally is so far away from Les Canadiens hockey its not funny.

If our team starts signing guys who can 'be relied upon to injure opposing players' we are just compounding the problem.

We need to be leaders on this, we shouldn't fight fire with fire.

The headshots and injuries will no doubt continue until the NHL old boys are broken up, but in the short term it doesn't help to further promote this kind of play.

We are better than this.

I wouldn't want to win if we had taken Chara out with a dirty play.

Although I was happy to see a more measured response from you later in the thread, and while I do agree with a lot of what your saying, I felt I had to take you to task on this.

Fair enough. As you point out, I did moderate my original assertion somewhat; and in the end I waver on this. The problem is, by not having guys like this, you're basically conceding 1-2 injuries to the opposition in any given playoff run as a result of deliberate injuries. That's why it may not be as simple as saying 'we're above all that.' But I hear where you're coming from and 'sort of' agree.

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