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just watched the bruins highlights - man Luongo is a bum!!!!

That's unfair. Not that I think Luongo is great, but the second goal was deflected by Salo and the 4th one went in off a hand. Marchand was all alone and is not on Lou.

THe first goal was bad though. He went down early and had poor stick placement.

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That's unfair. Not that I think Luongo is great, but the second goal was deflected by Salo and the 4th one went in off a hand. Marchand was all alone and is not on Lou.

THe first goal was bad though. He went down early and had poor stick placement.

Bottom line is at this stage, you can't be giving up some of the goals he's given up. Although I didn't get the point of leaving him in for 8 goals in game 3.

While I don't like either team, I HATE the bruins, so i'll be pretty pissed if the Canucks go through their usual collapse.

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BTH, they do count frames. This was confirmed by, I think, Eric Duhatschek. I don't object to that in principle, but dlbalr's post exposes the sheer absurdity of the whole business - as though a player is supposed to understand the difference between a fraction of a second when deciding to lay a hit. Dlbalr's post reads like satire. You may as well expect players to calculate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Players are completely confused about what is a suspendable or even a legal hit and what isn't. And I believe Rome when he says he was just 'finishing his check' and thought it was a hockey play. Of course he did; he grew up watching Scott Stevens get hailed as a hero for doing exactly that. Like every other player, he's been trained relentlessly in an ethos of 'punishing the opposition' and 'finishing your check' as an absolute, and I'll bet you he has never once heard a coach say something like, 'finish your check but make sure the check is CLEAN.' And that's because the league has utterly failed to establish two key principles: first, what is and is not a clean hit; and second, that ONLY clean hits are acceptable.

In a weird way, Rome is a victim here too. He has been deprived of his once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play in a Stanley Cup Final by a completely arbitrary disciplinary system.

It makes sense to count frames but I'm surprised Campbell never brought up the number of frames when giving the reasoning behind his decision. It would make the decision sound less arbitrary.

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Bottom line is at this stage, you can't be giving up some of the goals he's given up. Although I didn't get the point of leaving him in for 8 goals in game 3.

While I don't like either team, I HATE the bruins, so i'll be pretty pissed if the Canucks go through their usual collapse.

Game 3 is one game and can be tossed out. Nobody mentions the two atrocious goals Thomas gave up in Game 2 because the series is now tied.

Copper and Blue had the scoring chances as 18-8 for the Bruins even though the shots were 38-29 for the Canucks last night.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/6/8/2190772/canucks-vs-bruins-scoring-chances-game-4

The perception of fans is created by the shot clock, Luongo was strong in Game 1 and 2 and has been hung out to dry in Boston. Those losses are not on him when his team scored 1 goal!

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The only issue I see with Luongo is that he is not playing at the level of Thomas. Take the fourth goal.. sure it deflected, but why he was so deep and decided to deflect it out into oncoming traffic is beyond me. I thought he could have eaten that puck. In any case, the Canucks seem to give up after a goal or two and unless Luongo can "play above expectations", I am not sure the Canucks will win. It seems that once they were down two goals, they played terrible and so did Luongo.

I suspect if Thomas gives up an early goal in the next game, the Canucks will look much better and so will Luongo.

Credit to Thomas, he is has been incredible for the Bruins in this series and is in the heads of the Canucks.

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Well, colour me surprised. I was convinced that the Canucks would own the Bruins.

If anything, this series is taking on the cast of the dreaded Chicago-Vancouver matchups of yore. Something about a big, physical team seems to get Luongo off his game and wreak havoc on the vaunted Vancouver D. The same thing happened two years running when they played the Hawks: some close games, but puncuated by inexplicably huge, lopsided and humiliating defeats, with Luongo repeatedly hung out to dry.

Or maybe the absence of Dan Hamhuis is key? There's no question that he has been a quietly massive element for them, coolly running the transition game. Without him, they've got basically the same D that freaked out against the Hawks over the previous two playoffs. And it doesn't help that the mighty Kesler is on the limp.

It'll be up to Vigneault to make the right adjustments, and a good test of Julien's wits to see if he can match them. I never thought the Bruins would be this close - they've gotta know that if they can squeak one out in Vancouver, the Cup is, somehow, theirs for the taking. Impressive for a team missing Savard and Horton.

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well color me not surprised. I think the 2 finalists for the Vezina trophy are both pkrheds. As a former goaltender and a student of the game, I find that bobbyloo is far too deep in his net and he gets killed when guys shoot high on him, as to Mr lucky Tim, he is far too agressive and puts himself out of position a lot. Both losses in Van were a result of Mr Lucky guessing wrong. His rebound control is non-existant. Why the Canucks do not use extreme left to right movement amazes me cause he is not good at that. Hey it is just my opinnion and I never played in the big leagues. :habslogo:

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well color me not surprised. I think the 2 finalists for the Vezina trophy are both pkrheds. As a former goaltender and a student of the game, I find that bobbyloo is far too deep in his net and he gets killed when guys shoot high on him, as to Mr lucky Tim, he is far too agressive and puts himself out of position a lot. Both losses in Van were a result of Mr Lucky guessing wrong. His rebound control is non-existant. Why the Canucks do not use extreme left to right movement amazes me cause he is not good at that. Hey it is just my opinnion and I never played in the big leagues. :habslogo:

The funny thing is that Luongo apparently worked really hard with Melanson this year precisely to learn to play from deeper in his net, on the theory that he was overcompensating and running around too much before. :lol: It could be that now, at the worst possible time, he's lost the thread, and is overthinking his new technique. As for Thomas, well...Wamsley has long been of the view that he is NOT a particularly good goalie, he just plays one on TV, courtesy of Julien's rigorous defensive system. From what I can see, that seems about right - although there's always the 'Hasek' scenario of an unorthodox guy whose intensity and acrobatic skills compensate for dubious technique.

My confidence in Vancouver was not based on the idea of Luongo as a superstar, more on that team's ability, which they've shown all season, to crank it up a notch, usually late in games, and overwhelm the opposition. For two games this 'other level' has deserted them. I suspect injuries to Kesler and Hamhuis have a lot to do with that.

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Vancouver is getting banged up. Losing Hamhuis has really screwed up their D pairings, and Julien was able to really exploit the match-ups.

In Vancouver, they'll be able to get the forward match-ups that worked so well for them in Games 1 and 2.

They need to turn around the special teams, obviously. Those can come and go... its amazing Boston had as bad as a PP as they did forever, especially since they've ran up against some pretty shaky goaltending (Philly's circus, Roloson got pulled, Luongo's past couple of games).

Hockey is a funny game. This is far from over.

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well color me not surprised. I think the 2 finalists for the Vezina trophy are both pkrheds. As a former goaltender and a student of the game, I find that bobbyloo is far too deep in his net and he gets killed when guys shoot high on him, as to Mr lucky Tim, he is far too agressive and puts himself out of position a lot. Both losses in Van were a result of Mr Lucky guessing wrong. His rebound control is non-existant. Why the Canucks do not use extreme left to right movement amazes me cause he is not good at that. Hey it is just my opinnion and I never played in the big leagues. :habslogo:

CC is 100% correct on Luongo playing deep being a direct result of being coached to do so. This type of coaching is what got him fired in Montreal, he tried to get Price to do exactly this.

Now I am not going to criticize Melanson because he has done this a long time, to me (a guy who is the same size as Luongo) I find that when I struggle it is because I am too deep and not capitalizing on my size. Relying on reflexes at the age of 32 seems a little risky to me. I understand why Melanson tried to change his game, Luongo is not a strong skater and when he gets out too far his backside recoveries are embarrassing. Contrast videos to Price's footwork and ease of motion and it is shocking.

I find the opposite with Boston and the way they just let Thomas roam around like an idiot and compliment his strengths and cover his weaknesses. Thomas gambles, his puck tracking is average, his rebound control non existant and his secondary positioning terrible. He has amazing reflexes for a guy his age and usually lines up the initial shot. Moving him laterally is a smart tactic, but the Bruins forwards commit deep and collapse the passing lanes through the middle. When there is a scramble Chara and crew are there to clean up the mess.

Vancouver is a strong defensive club, so I don't understand why they don't do the same thing with Luongo. Let the guy be aggressive and clean up his mess, just because they couldn't do it against Chicago doesn't mean they can't do it against 29 other teams. The way they have treated him, it seems as though they don't trust him whereas the Bruins are going to live and die with Thomas no matter how ridiculous he looks on goals like the Burrows winner. In reality, that wasn't Thomas' fault because the Bruins KNOW what they have. To me that was Chara's fault. If he does his job then Burrows gets pushed off the puck and Thomas scrambles back into place with no damage like 90% of those scrambles.

Canadiens fans don't realize how spoiled they are to have Carey Price. He may never have the resume of Patrick Roy, but he is Hybrid Roy 2.0. The model of the future before the future. Luongo is Roy 1.8 and plays the same way he did but bigger and just as fast. Thomas is Cujo 1.1 or Hasek 0.8.

Ultimately whoever wins changes my life in no way, but I am cheering for Vancouver and the way Luongo looks confused I would start Schneider. He is just more efficient at this point.

Vancouver is getting banged up. Losing Hamhuis has really screwed up their D pairings, and Julien was able to really exploit the match-ups.

In Vancouver, they'll be able to get the forward match-ups that worked so well for them in Games 1 and 2.

They need to turn around the special teams, obviously. Those can come and go... its amazing Boston had as bad as a PP as they did forever, especially since they've ran up against some pretty shaky goaltending (Philly's circus, Roloson got pulled, Luongo's past couple of games).

Hockey is a funny game. This is far from over.

I agree. The Playoffs are a roller coaster. When you think you have everything figured out the track changes.

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I will ba amazed if Vancouver starts Schneider. That team has made Luongo an absolute defining centrepiece. For them to start Schneider is to humiliate Luongo and invite all sorts of problems going forward, possibly even in the dressing room. The only way Schneider starts is if Luongo gets pulled again tonight IMHO.

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I will ba amazed if Vancouver starts Schneider. That team has made Luongo an absolute defining centrepiece. For them to start Schneider is to humiliate Luongo and invite all sorts of problems going forward, possibly even in the dressing room. The only way Schneider starts is if Luongo gets pulled again tonight IMHO.

But they already did. In round one. They rolled the dice on those problems moving forward and because the result was favourable it seems to have been swept under the rug.

I don't understand the difference now. When the season was on the line in round one they ditched Luongo in almost the exact same circumstance.

BTW. C.C is Vancouver always this effin whiney?

There are articles popping up all over the place about their tortured history.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/heartbreak-nothing-new-for-canucks-fans/article2055747/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/gary_mason/high-anxiety-in-vancouver/article2054905/

I don't see it. When contrasted to franchises like Boston, Toronto, Buffalo, San Jose, St. Louis, Ottawa etc. their burden of disappointment is nothing. Jesus, they are bringing up the Neely trade. IT WAS 25 YEARS AGO!! Why aren't they mentioning the fact that they acquired Luongo for essentially Trevor Linden and Alex Auld while getting to keep Bertuzzi's prime. They picked up Markus Naslund for Alex Stojanov.

Shut up and enjoy being two wins away from the Cup. Pathetic self loathing. NO, I don't feel sorry for you Vancouver.

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Luongo has looked terrible the last few games but I think he deserves the right to start game 5. I would love to see him rebound and win 2 of the next 3 games. Sadly however, I predict that Boston will win in game 7, with Lucic scoring the eventual game winner. It drives me crazy that the Habs had these guys on the ropes and now here they are playing for the cup. It also drives me nuts how they seem to get away with so many penalties and any suspensions(Ference middle finger salute, Lucic sucker punch, and others I can't remember) , yet teams against them do. How is the Pacioretty hit different from the Horton hit? Both were given 5 minute majors for interference. Just grinds my gears. I want big-nosed Boston to lose more than Vancouver to win. And it sucks that even if they do lose, they are still a stacked team for years to come and will be a pain in the Hab's ass.

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But they already did. In round one. They rolled the dice on those problems moving forward and because the result was favourable it seems to have been swept under the rug.

I don't understand the difference now. When the season was on the line in round one they ditched Luongo in almost the exact same circumstance.

BTW. C.C is Vancouver always this effin whiney?

There are articles popping up all over the place about their tortured history.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/heartbreak-nothing-new-for-canucks-fans/article2055747/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/gary_mason/high-anxiety-in-vancouver/article2054905/

I don't see it. When contrasted to franchises like Boston, Toronto, Buffalo, San Jose, St. Louis, Ottawa etc. their burden of disappointment is nothing. Jesus, they are bringing up the Neely trade. IT WAS 25 YEARS AGO!! Why aren't they mentioning the fact that they acquired Luongo for essentially Trevor Linden and Alex Auld while getting to keep Bertuzzi's prime. They picked up Markus Naslund for Alex Stojanov.

Shut up and enjoy being two wins away from the Cup. Pathetic self loathing. NO, I don't feel sorry for you Vancouver.

Yes, they're always that whiny. When I moved here, I was all set to take them onboard as my '(distant) second favourite' team. But I very quickly detected a real undertone of anger and bitterness in the fanbase - which I found weird, because most citites would have loved to have had that team. Then the Bertuzzi thing happened, and I could not believe all the fans rallying to that Neanderthal's side, acting as though HE was the victim, that Moore DESERVED it, that somehow the CANUCKS were the wronged party. Total disinterest in Moore's welfare, total hostility to a man who had just been robbed of his career. That, combined with the general corporate banality and dismal heritage of the franchise, put me off the team permanently.

Remember, this is the city that booed Team Canada on home ice in 1972 and spurred Phil Esposito to make his great postgame interview/speech.

What explains the panicky, whiny bitterness? As you say, Wamsley, teams like Buffalo and Toronto and Boston have had it at least as bad. Even Calgary had its second Cup arguably stolen from it by a waived goal, a catastrophe for which Vancouver has no parallel. I have two theories:

1. Vancouver is a city full of people who moved here from elsewhere, usually to make money and get ahead in life. It's what you might call an 'acquisitional' or 'aspirational' frontier city. These people do not relate to the language of heritage, love of place, rooted love for a city and (by extension) its team. While in the great hockey cities, the franchise is part of the community's story and in some way a reflection of its identity, in a city that has no story or identity that anyone cares about, the team is little more than a weird kind of consumer good : the fans demand gratification, and absent results they have nothing to fall back on. No history or identity: no 'working class city/team' culture like Buffalo; no 'long-battling, hard-fighting losers' like Boston; no '1967!!' and CBC hype machine like Toronto; no 'amazing heritage and flair' like Montreal. So, all they have is a sense of being ripped off somehow.

2. Maybe this is more plausible. Vancouver suffered 20 years of being a pretty rotten franchise, with zero star players and zero drafting, and one Cinderella run. OK. But then things got interesting. They drafted Linden and then Bure. They went to Game 7 of the 94 Finals and lost. The team then went crazy loading up on talent - Bure, Messier, Mogilny - and was supposed to dominate the league. Instead, they bombed: crashing, devastating, humiliating disappointment. They proceeded to recover and build another supposed powerhouse under Burke. The result? More crashing, devastating, humiliating disappointent. They then recovered and built a third supposed powerhouse under Gillis. The result? Crashing, devastating, humiliating defeats - twice - by Chicago and a near-death experience in Round One this season, along with an eerily similar two games in Boston.

It could be that that weird combination of, first, extended sheer suckage and second, repeatedly inflated hopes followed by crashing disappointments (94, Messier, Burke, the Chicago serieses) in rapid succession, has led to a unique fan psychology. I can't think offhand of another city that's endured that particular pattern. Even Ottawa only had to endure ONE basic edition of the team being held out as contenders only to watch them fail; they didn't rebuild over and over with the same result. Imagine how we'd feel as Habs fans if we went through the neurotic psychodrama of 2009 over and over. Yikes.

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Yes, they're always that whiny. When I moved here, I was all set to take them onboard as my '(distant) second favourite' team. But I very quickly detected a real undertone of anger and bitterness in the fanbase - which I found weird, because most citites would have loved to have had that team. Then the Bertuzzi thing happened, and I could not believe all the fans rallying to that Neanderthal's side, acting as though HE was the victim, that Moore DESERVED it, that somehow the CANUCKS were the wronged party. Total disinterest in Moore's welfare, total hostility to a man who had just been robbed of his career. That, combined with the general corporate banality and dismal heritage of the franchise, put me off the team permanently.

Remember, this is the city that booed Team Canada on home ice in 1972 and spurred Phil Esposito to make his great postgame interview/speech.

What explains the panicky, whiny bitterness? As you say, Wamsley, teams like Buffalo and Toronto and Boston have had it at least as bad. Even Calgary had its second Cup arguably stolen from it by a waived goal, a catastrophe for which Vancouver has no parallel. I have two theories:

1. Vancouver is a city full of people who moved here from elsewhere, usually to make money and get ahead in life. It's what you might call an 'acquisitional' or 'aspirational' frontier city. These people do not relate to the language of heritage, love of place, rooted love for a city and (by extension) its team. While in the great hockey cities, the franchise is part of the community's story and in some way a reflection of its identity, in a city that has no story or identity that anyone cares about, the team is little more than a weird kind of consumer good : the fans demand gratification, and absent results they have nothing to fall back on. No history or identity: no 'working class city/team' culture like Buffalo; no 'long-battling, hard-fighting losers' like Boston; no '1967!!' and CBC hype machine like Toronto; no 'amazing heritage and flair' like Montreal. So, all they have is a sense of being ripped off somehow.

2. Maybe this is more plausible. Vancouver suffered 20 years of being a pretty rotten franchise, with zero star players and zero drafting, and one Cinderella run. OK. But then things got interesting. They drafted Linden and then Bure. They went to Game 7 of the 94 Finals and lost. The team then went crazy loading up on talent - Bure, Messier, Mogilny - and was supposed to dominate the league. Instead, they bombed: crashing, devastating, humiliating disappointment. They proceeded to recover and build another supposed powerhouse under Burke. The result? More crashing, devastating, humiliating disappointent. They then recovered and built a third supposed powerhouse under Gillis. The result? Crashing, devastating, humiliating defeats - twice - by Chicago and a near-death experience in Round One this season, along with an eerily similar two games in Boston.

It could be that that weird combination of, first, extended sheer suckage and second, repeatedly inflated hopes followed by crashing disappointments (94, Messier, Burke, the Chicago serieses) in rapid succession, has led to a unique fan psychology. I can't think offhand of another city that's endured that particular pattern. Even Ottawa only had to endure ONE basic edition of the team being held out as contenders only to watch them fail; they didn't rebuild over and over with the same result. Imagine how we'd feel as Habs fans if we went through the neurotic psychodrama of 2009 over and over. Yikes.

I like the sense of being ripped off somehow :) That kills me.

I don't know if the trauma of having a good team disappoint is a good excuse. They have made 3 trips to the Stanley Cup Final and two since the Habs last played in one.

Just because your team has 90+ points, it doesn't entitle you to championships. Sometimes a sports team perpetually leaves you at the alter and you just deal with it. I mean their worst playoff defeat is not even in the top 25% of stomach punch losses.

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I like the sense of being ripped off somehow :) That kills me.

I don't know if the trauma of having a good team disappoint is a good excuse. They have made 3 trips to the Stanley Cup Final and two since the Habs last played in one.

Just because your team has 90+ points, it doesn't entitle you to championships. Sometimes a sports team perpetually leaves you at the alter and you just deal with it. I mean their worst playoff defeat is not even in the top 25% of stomach punch losses.

Issue in Vancouver is too many bandwagon "wannabe championship city fans" versus true hockey fans. I've got cousins who until two years ago souldn't no a puck from a soccer ball, but now all of a sudden they are die hard Vancouver fans. These are people who for 30 years of their lives hated hockey, now they live, breath and die hockey fans because they have a contending team and it the "in" thing to do.

To add on to CC's point, of he migrant population, most of the people there are transplanted grass smoking, sun worshipping, LA North Wannabe, fair weather hockey fans. Even the media types are a bunch of clowns - like that hyppcritical blow hard Cam Cole who called Joseph a traitor for leaving Edmonton for more money and the spotlight and then proceeded to run to Toronto and then Vancouver the first chance he got to escape the snow in Edmonton. The Vancouver media is a lot like the dramedy Habs media, without the language revolutionaries.

Having said that, i'm cheering for the canucks (but not watching), because I absolutely hate, loath, HATE, despise, did i say HATE the bruins.

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Players are completely confused about what is a suspendable or even a legal hit and what isn't. And I believe Rome when he says he was just 'finishing his check' and thought it was a hockey play. Of course he did; he grew up watching Scott Stevens get hailed as a hero for doing exactly that. Like every other player, he's been trained relentlessly in an ethos of 'punishing the opposition' and 'finishing your check' as an absolute, and I'll bet you he has never once heard a coach say something like, 'finish your check but make sure the check is CLEAN.' And that's because the league has utterly failed to establish two key principles: first, what is and is not a clean hit; and second, that ONLY clean hits are acceptable.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I have zero doubt plays like Rome's hit on Horton or Chara's hit on Pacioretty or Stevens' hit on Kariya are indeed intended to hurt the opposing player. If players had respect for their opponents on the other team, we wouldn't see plays like this. In the Chara/Pacioretty case, for example, a "respectful play" would be for Chara to merely get in the way of Max to slow him down. Instead Chara really did drive him into the stanchion.

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Just because your team has 90+ points, it doesn't entitle you to championships. Sometimes a sports team perpetually leaves you at the alter and you just deal with it. I mean their worst playoff defeat is not even in the top 25% of stomach punch losses.

Ted Leonsis, Bruce Boudreau and Alex Ovechkin beg to differ. :rolleyes:

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Luongo just cracks under pressure, but I don't get the team in front either. First bad goal goes in and they completely stopped playing.

AV needed to pull Lou after that second goal. Two bad goals in 35s... brutal. Get him out and reboot the team.. too late now...

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Who's your pick for Game 7? What an implosion early on tonight.

How do you put up that type of effort with the chance to win the Cup? And after all that smack he talked after Game 5!

At least they don't have him locked up until he is 40+ at $5M+ per season.

Has a goaltender ever imploded this badly in a series and still have a shot at winning the Stanley Cup?

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Boston is getting all of the bounces and the opposing team is getting none (where have I seen that before this playoffs.)

It doesn't matter. They have 6 goals in 6 games. The Canucks are lucky they are still playing.

The least amount of goals registered by a Stanley Cup champion since 1970 is 13 (Dallas 99). That includes all 4 game sweeps.

The Canucks look like a different team than they did all season. I think the injuries are mounting, Kesler looks nothing like the player

he was in the 2nd round.

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