Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Boivin on the 'French' fact

Recommended Posts

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/boivin-tells-it-like-it-is

Just to rekindle some old controversies! The signal is pretty clear: the requirement that the Habs hire francophone coaches/GMs puts the organization at a serious competitive disadvantage. I am surprised to find Boivin, a vigorous advocate of the 'francophone' principle in Habs' management, stating this so bluntly. Interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/boivin-tells-it-like-it-is

Just to rekindle some old controversies! The signal is pretty clear: the requirement that the Habs hire francophone coaches/GMs puts the organization at a serious competitive disadvantage. I am surprised to find Boivin, a vigorous advocate of the 'francophone' principle in Habs' management, stating this so bluntly. Interesting.

It is what it is I guess. Nothing we can do about it and because the topic is filled with biased language based viewpoints.

I want the best team/management/coach that the Canadiens can get. Unfortunately that is not reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dress a team with 2/3 of Québecers playing their hearts out for their home province. I'm pretty sure the outcome would be pretty good, at least couldn't be worse than what we had the past 2 decades.

I disagree. Aside from a few stars, the best of the rest from Quebec wouldn't be all that much different from a bottom feeding NHL team. Players should play their hearts out for whatever team they're playing for; if they have to be on their hometown team to try, I know as a fan I wouldn't want them on my team, be it Montreal, Toronto, or Tuscaloosa. There's just a lack of Quebec-based talent right now, it's hard to fault the organization for not having too many locals on the Habs as a result as their priority should be to get the best players possible. And it's not as if there aren't many in the organization, the Habs have a lot of Quebecers in the system relative to most of the other teams. But as is the case with the NHL ratio, a lot of them just aren't any good. A team full of Darche's may be nice to have in terms of identifying with some hometown heroes but they're not going to win squat aside from a high draft pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree. Aside from a few stars, the best of the rest from Quebec wouldn't be all that much different from a bottom feeding NHL team. Players should play their hearts out for whatever team they're playing for; if they have to be on their hometown team to try, I know as a fan I wouldn't want them on my team, be it Montreal, Toronto, or Tuscaloosa. There's just a lack of Quebec-based talent right now, it's hard to fault the organization for not having too many locals on the Habs as a result as their priority should be to get the best players possible. And it's not as if there aren't many in the organization, the Habs have a lot of Quebecers in the system relative to most of the other teams. But as is the case with the NHL ratio, a lot of them just aren't any good. A team full of Darche's may be nice to have in terms of identifying with some hometown heroes but they're not going to win squat aside from a high draft pick.

It's too bad we missed Claude Giroulx. But other than that, yeah, you're spot-on; and I fear it's sadly typical of Quebecois commentators to blame the Habs rather than look inward for reasons as to why Quebec talent has dried up.

The real issue for me is not the lack of francophone players (although I'd love a francophone star as much as the next guy), it's the pressure the organization faces to have francophones in key managerial positions (specifically, coach and GM). That we could no longer hire Scotty Bowman seems to me pathological. Then again, one could argue that anyone can acquire adequate language skills to answer a few media questions with a little effort; and I do sometimes wonder why the idea of learning a bit of French is simply ruled out of court for would-be Habs coaches/GMs. It probably has to do with the anti-intellectual jock culture of hockey. In any case, when people point out how far the Habs have fallen since the glory days, they should remember that those glory days occured because the Habs were able to hire the best people in key positions instead of being an affirmative-action program for French Canadians. Everything now hinges on sheer luck, such that the small number of francophone GMs/coaches out there just happen to be among the best in the business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's too bad we missed Claude Giroulx. But other than that, yeah, you're spot-on; and I fear it's sadly typical of Quebecois commentators to blame the Habs rather than look inward for reasons as to why Quebec talent has dried up.

The real issue for me is not the lack of francophone players (although I'd love a francophone star as much as the next guy), it's the pressure the organization faces to have francophones in key managerial positions (specifically, coach and GM). That we could no longer hire Scotty Bowman seems to me pathological. Then again, one could argue that anyone can acquire adequate language skills to answer a few media questions with a little effort; and I do sometimes wonder why the idea of learning a bit of French is simply ruled out of court for would-be Habs coaches/GMs. It probably has to do with the anti-intellectual jock culture of hockey. In any case, when people point out how far the Habs have fallen since the glory days, they should remember that those glory days occured because the Habs were able to hire the best people in key positions instead of being an affirmative-action program for French Canadians. Everything now hinges on sheer luck, such that the small number of francophone GMs/coaches out there just happen to be among the best in the business.

That is the scariest statement in the paragraph. Why does the media choose to ignore this when discussing the subject?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always wondered, why couldn't the team hire an English coach with a Francophone assistant? (Or Anglo GM with Franco assistant.) Let the assistant handle the bulk of the relations with the French media; if nothing else, it would lessen the extra burden that comes with coaching in a hockey-mad market. It's certainly risky but I think that given the relative scarcity of Quebecers in those positions (as Boivin noted, the Habs currently have the lone French GM), it would allow them to expand their list of candidates for the primary role while still being able to groom someone without throwing them to the fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is the scariest statement in the paragraph. Why does the media choose to ignore this when discussing the subject?

scotty was bilingual why couldn't we hire him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always wondered, why couldn't the team hire an English coach with a Francophone assistant? (Or Anglo GM with Franco assistant.) Let the assistant handle the bulk of the relations with the French media; if nothing else, it would lessen the extra burden that comes with coaching in a hockey-mad market. It's certainly risky but I think that given the relative scarcity of Quebecers in those positions (as Boivin noted, the Habs currently have the lone French GM), it would allow them to expand their list of candidates for the primary role while still being able to groom someone without throwing them to the fire.

+ 4094850505494

If everyone here would think like that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree. Aside from a few stars, the best of the rest from Quebec wouldn't be all that much different from a bottom feeding NHL team. Players should play their hearts out for whatever team they're playing for; if they have to be on their hometown team to try, I know as a fan I wouldn't want them on my team, be it Montreal, Toronto, or Tuscaloosa. There's just a lack of Quebec-based talent right now, it's hard to fault the organization for not having too many locals on the Habs as a result as their priority should be to get the best players possible. And it's not as if there aren't many in the organization, the Habs have a lot of Quebecers in the system relative to most of the other teams. But as is the case with the NHL ratio, a lot of them just aren't any good. A team full of Darche's may be nice to have in terms of identifying with some hometown heroes but they're not going to win squat aside from a high draft pick.

I count 14 quebecers, only amongst the 4 teams left in the Conference finals. 3 of the 4 coaches are quebecers. THe top 2 scorers in the playoffs are quebecers. There are 4 quebecers on Tampa's first PP unit. The argument there are not enough good quebecers won't hold long. The thing I say is that fans from outside the province should at least understand that lots of Habs fans in Québec feel it important to be able to associate with the team. Hockey is a sports, mere entertainment, and we pay for it. We don't have to be ashamed to ask for more local players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I count 14 quebecers, only amongst the 4 teams left in the Conference finals. 3 of the 4 coaches are quebecers. THe top 2 scorers in the playoffs are quebecers. There are 4 quebecers on Tampa's first PP unit. The argument there are not enough good quebecers won't hold long. The thing I say is that fans from outside the province should at least understand that lots of Habs fans in Québec feel it important to be able to associate with the team. Hockey is a sports, mere entertainment, and we pay for it. We don't have to be ashamed to ask for more local players.

We could have had one of those 4 quebecers. Would you be happier if the reported lecavalier deal had gone through and we would have the joy of having the local boy and everones cousin Vinny (who btw really doesn't seem to want anything to do with playing in Montreal), in stead of potenially Subban, Price, pleks and gorges???? I wouldn't trade Subban straight up for Ginny and his 10 year contract.

Of the 4 guys on Tampa, the only guy I'd want is St Louis. Gagne is a hit away from retirement and MAB is a ticking time bomb I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

You also have to factor in other quebecers who want nothing to do with Montreal like Briere who spurned Montreal when he had the chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do realize that the % of francophones in the league is very low?

The number of francophones that have been drafted in the 1st round has been low for quite a while.

Of the 2011 1st round NHL draft prospects; from the QMJHL in the top 30 there are 6 and of those, 2 are New Brunswickers and 1 is Finnish, so 3 out of 30 is also a low number of canditates wouldnt you say.

Of those 3 francophone coachs, they all were already with Habs system and are now gone for 1 reason or other.

Ashamed to ask for local players? Never; no fan anywhere, for any sports league team, wouldnt pull for the home town kid would they! But if championships and winning are the goal, dont you have to be more objective in the approach to drafting, trading and hiring management personnal.

Very refreshing to hear Boivin be candid.

I count 14 quebecers, only amongst the 4 teams left in the Conference finals. 3 of the 4 coaches are quebecers. THe top 2 scorers in the playoffs are quebecers. There are 4 quebecers on Tampa's first PP unit. The argument there are not enough good quebecers won't hold long. The thing I say is that fans from outside the province should at least understand that lots of Habs fans in Québec feel it important to be able to associate with the team. Hockey is a sports, mere entertainment, and we pay for it. We don't have to be ashamed to ask for more local players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I count 14 quebecers, only amongst the 4 teams left in the Conference finals. 3 of the 4 coaches are quebecers. THe top 2 scorers in the playoffs are quebecers. There are 4 quebecers on Tampa's first PP unit. The argument there are not enough good quebecers won't hold long. The thing I say is that fans from outside the province should at least understand that lots of Habs fans in Québec feel it important to be able to associate with the team. Hockey is a sports, mere entertainment, and we pay for it. We don't have to be ashamed to ask for more local players.

Every fan of every team wants local players, that's not a trait only for Quebec. You don't think Leaf fans want hometowners? As for the players you reference, how many have the Habs realistically had a shot at and how many of the 14 are actually any good? (I'm counting players born in Quebec, not necessarily those who played in Quebec)

Torrey Mitchell - dime a dozen 4th line player

Jason Demers - healthy scratch

M-E Vlasic - one of the most overhyped players in the league by the Quebec media, he's a 3rd pairing guy at best

Alex Bolduc - minor leaguer

Alex Burrows - undrafted FA, wasn't on anyone's radar as he bounced around the ECHL. Good player for sure though

Maxim Lapierre - given up by 2 teams in the same season (he was beyond bad in Anaheim), Habs have had him before

Roberto Luongo - Habs never had a chance to sign him as a UFA

Simon Gagne - has gone on record saying he wouldn't want to play in Montreal due to the media pressure (unless there were numerous other locals on the team to offset some of the extra attention), hasn't gone to UFA that I can think of

Vincent Lecavalier - drafted before the Habs could pick him, never went to UFA status, Tampa will be looking to unload his awful contract soon enough though

M-A Pouliot - Edmonton released him, has cleared waivers several times in recent years, fringe NHL'er at best

Martin St. Louis - like Burrows, good find as an undrafted UFA, hasn't hit UFA since going to Tampa

M-A Bergeron - we know the drill with him already having seen the good, bad, and the ugly with him last season

Mathieu Roy - career minor leaguer

Patrice Bergeron - openly celebrated not being drafted by the Habs, grew up as a Nordique fan and despised the Habs

So, among that 14, we have 6 that are either minor leaguers (Demers, Mitchell, Bolduc, Vlasic, Pouliot, Roy), or depth guys which doesn't even include Lapierre and Bergeron who more or less are depth guys (heck, Bergeron's been scratched in these playoffs). That leaves 6 who qualify as above average players, or 43% which qualifies as a minority. And of those, how many have the Habs really had a shot at? 3, Burrows, St. Louis, and Bergeron, the latter who as noted hates the Habs while the other 2 were undrafted FA's...and as recent history has shown, the Habs have signed quite a few undrafted Quebec UFA's (Desjardins, Desharnais, Masse, Lefebvre, F. Lemieux, plus others to minor league deals like Bisaillon this season); you can't say they're not trying in that regard. So even on these teams, who carry roughly at least 15% of the total Quebecers in the NHL, the so-so ones still outweigh the good ones, a trend that continues for virtually every other team in the league (and I really don't want to dig through every roster. :)) Yes, there are some very good French players, some of the best in the league. But for every Lecavalier and St. Louis, there are an awful lot of Alexandre Giroux's (guys who have good numbers in lower levels but just can't produce when given an NHL look) and if you look around the league, you'll see that a significant portion of the already low amount of Quebec-born players are bottom 6 forwards or bottom pairing/spare defencemen. So yes, I remain confident in my statement that there aren't a lot of good Quebecers in the NHL if for no other reason than the fact that there aren't a lot of Quebecers in the NHL period. (I should've wrote that first, could've saved me a lot of research/writing... :))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every fan of every team wants local players, that's not a trait only for Quebec. You don't think Leaf fans want hometowners? As for the players you reference, how many have the Habs realistically had a shot at and how many of the 14 are actually any good? (I'm counting players born in Quebec, not necessarily those who played in Quebec)

Torrey Mitchell - dime a dozen 4th line player

Jason Demers - healthy scratch

M-E Vlasic - one of the most overhyped players in the league by the Quebec media, he's a 3rd pairing guy at best

Alex Bolduc - minor leaguer

Alex Burrows - undrafted FA, wasn't on anyone's radar as he bounced around the ECHL. Good player for sure though

Maxim Lapierre - given up by 2 teams in the same season (he was beyond bad in Anaheim), Habs have had him before

Roberto Luongo - Habs never had a chance to sign him as a UFA

Simon Gagne - has gone on record saying he wouldn't want to play in Montreal due to the media pressure (unless there were numerous other locals on the team to offset some of the extra attention), hasn't gone to UFA that I can think of

Vincent Lecavalier - drafted before the Habs could pick him, never went to UFA status, Tampa will be looking to unload his awful contract soon enough though

M-A Pouliot - Edmonton released him, has cleared waivers several times in recent years, fringe NHL'er at best

Martin St. Louis - like Burrows, good find as an undrafted UFA, hasn't hit UFA since going to Tampa

M-A Bergeron - we know the drill with him already having seen the good, bad, and the ugly with him last season

Mathieu Roy - career minor leaguer

Patrice Bergeron - openly celebrated not being drafted by the Habs, grew up as a Nordique fan and despised the Habs

So, among that 14, we have 6 that are either minor leaguers (Demers, Mitchell, Bolduc, Vlasic, Pouliot, Roy), or depth guys which doesn't even include Lapierre and Bergeron who more or less are depth guys (heck, Bergeron's been scratched in these playoffs). That leaves 6 who qualify as above average players, or 43% which qualifies as a minority. And of those, how many have the Habs really had a shot at? 3, Burrows, St. Louis, and Bergeron, the latter who as noted hates the Habs while the other 2 were undrafted FA's...and as recent history has shown, the Habs have signed quite a few undrafted Quebec UFA's (Desjardins, Desharnais, Masse, Lefebvre, F. Lemieux, plus others to minor league deals like Bisaillon this season); you can't say they're not trying in that regard. So even on these teams, who carry roughly at least 15% of the total Quebecers in the NHL, the so-so ones still outweigh the good ones, a trend that continues for virtually every other team in the league (and I really don't want to dig through every roster. :)) Yes, there are some very good French players, some of the best in the league. But for every Lecavalier and St. Louis, there are an awful lot of Alexandre Giroux's (guys who have good numbers in lower levels but just can't produce when given an NHL look) and if you look around the league, you'll see that a significant portion of the already low amount of Quebec-born players are bottom 6 forwards or bottom pairing/spare defencemen. So yes, I remain confident in my statement that there aren't a lot of good Quebecers in the NHL if for no other reason than the fact that there aren't a lot of Quebecers in the NHL period. (I should've wrote that first, could've saved me a lot of research/writing... :))

Nice breakdown & analysis, Brian. Sure saved me the trouble. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do realize that the % of francophones in the league is very low?

The number of francophones that have been drafted in the 1st round has been low for quite a while.

Of the 2011 1st round NHL draft prospects; from the QMJHL in the top 30 there are 6 and of those, 2 are New Brunswickers and 1 is Finnish, so 3 out of 30 is also a low number of canditates wouldnt you say.

Of those 3 francophone coachs, they all were already with Habs system and are now gone for 1 reason or other.

Ashamed to ask for local players? Never; no fan anywhere, for any sports league team, wouldnt pull for the home town kid would they! But if championships and winning are the goal, dont you have to be more objective in the approach to drafting, trading and hiring management personnal.

Very refreshing to hear Boivin be candid.

I grant you there are fewer Québecers in the NHL. But still, there remains more than 60, more than enough to dress 2 full teams.

Our depth is at C and G. There are quite a few rising stars. One of them is defenseman M-A Gragnani.

I don't know if I'm wrong, but I counted 9 centres that are either 1st or 2nd liners, 5 LW and 2 RW. At least 8 goalies are either starters or playing many games.

Centres:

Vincent Lecavalier

Danny Briere

Mike Ribeiro

Eric Belanger

Patrice Bergeron

Paul Stastny

Pierre-Marc Bouchard

Antoine Vermette

Matthew Lombardi

Derick Brassard

Maxime Talbot

Maxim Lapierre

Torrey Mitchell

David Desharnais

Mathieu Perreault

LW

Simon Gagne

Alex Tanguay

Alexandre Burrows

David Perron

P.A. Parenteau

Guillaume Latendresse

Mathieu Darche

Jean-Francois Jacques

Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond

Pascal Dupuis

RW

Martin St. Louis

J.P. Dumont

Jason Pominville

Steve Bernier

Anthony Stewart

D

Kris Letang Stephane Robidas

Marc-Andre Gragnani Marc-Andre Bergeron

Alexandre Picard Francois Beauchemin

Jason Demers Marc-Edouard Vlasic

Mathieu Roy Bruno Gervais

G

Martin Brodeur

Roberto Luongo

Jose Theodore

Jean-Sebastien Giguere

Martin Biron

Patrick Lalime

Marc-Andre Fleury

Mathieu Garon

Pascal Leclaire

Corey Crawford

Jonathan Bernier

Edited by sakiqc
Thanks to http://www.hockey-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.cgi?country=CA&province=QC&state=

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for saving me the legwork on that one. :) I don't see 9 top-2 centres out of that list though, just 5 (Lecavalier, Briere, Ribeiro, Stastny who actually represents the USA internationally, and Bergeron). Guys like Brassard, Bouchard, and Belanger are too inconsistent to be lumped into that category with the others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I grant you there are fewer Québecers in the NHL. But still, there remains more than 60, more than enough to dress 2 full teams.

Our depth is at C and G. There are quite a few rising stars. One of them is defenseman M-A Gragnani.

I don't know if I'm wrong, but I counted 9 centres that are either 1st or 2nd liners, 5 LW and 2 RW. At least 8 goalies are either starters or playing many games.

Centres:

Vincent Lecavalier

Danny Briere

Mike Ribeiro

Eric Belanger

Patrice Bergeron

Paul Stastny

Pierre-Marc Bouchard

Antoine Vermette

Matthew Lombardi

Derick Brassard

Maxime Talbot

Maxim Lapierre

Torrey Mitchell

David Desharnais

Mathieu Perreault

LW

Simon Gagne

Alex Tanguay

Alexandre Burrows

David Perron

P.A. Parenteau

Guillaume Latendresse

Mathieu Darche

Jean-Francois Jacques

Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond

Pascal Dupuis

RW

Martin St. Louis

J.P. Dumont

Jason Pominville

Steve Bernier

Anthony Stewart

D

Kris Letang Stephane Robidas

Marc-Andre Gragnani Marc-Andre Bergeron

Alexandre Picard Francois Beauchemin

Jason Demers Marc-Edouard Vlasic

Mathieu Roy Bruno Gervais

G

Martin Brodeur

Roberto Luongo

Jose Theodore

Jean-Sebastien Giguere

Martin Biron

Patrick Lalime

Marc-Andre Fleury

Mathieu Garon

Pascal Leclaire

Corey Crawford

Jonathan Bernier

I want a cup winner and that can't be done fielding a team from Quebec. Ken Dryden wrote in the Game that in the future Montreal will have to choose between having a team of francophones and being a winner (i'm paraphrasing from memory), and its obvious Boivon would rather be French then be a winner. His whole attitude toward filling the coaching and GM position proves that.

Looking at your list of players, i really don't see how we could build a contender with those guys when you look at the circumstances with those players - many of whom don't even want anything to do with Montreal.

-we dodged a bullet gutting the future of our team in our attempt to get Lecavalier

-Briere doesn't want anyting to do with Montreal

-We've seen the Ribeiro show

-Belanger - seriously?? isn't the guy a concussion case and almost out of the league???

-Gange - has stated he hates the habs and woudn't want to play in Monreal

-Bergeron - has stated many times that he has always hated the habs

-stasny- the guy plays for team USA - may have been born in Quebec, but doesn't consider himself to be French and do you really think anyone on RDS/French media would accept him as a quebecor????

-Bouchard - concussion/injury prone

-Lombardi - got a pretty big contract and is out with a concussion

-Laps - didn't we already see that disapointing movie-

-Lats - was rushed and in the league like Ribero, but is a perfect example of the risk of how the french media turns a prospect who hasn't proved or accomplished anything into a rock star

-MAB - why, why, why why would we want him - I can't even believe he is still in the NHL

-St. Louis - he was a LONG shot that made good - hopefully Desharnais can become a similar player

-Tanguay - see Laps, Lats, Ribiero, MAB, his stint in Montreal was injury prone, but for the most part was a flop and he has bounced around quite a bit

-Burrows - non-prospect to long shot that made good, hardly blame the habs for passing

-Letang - has developed into a good Dman, but wasn't conidered an elite prospect

-Robidas - was in the habs system, but was a late bloomer

-Beuchiman - see Robidas

-Darche - is a marginal player, who probably wouldn't have still been in the NHL if he wasn't French

-Picard - we have him, but I wish we didn't!!!

-Talbot/Dupuis - we have a chance to get them this summer, but they are 3rd/4th liners who will be looking for big raises, neither will probably be worth their asking price. The Pens aren't keen to tie up cap space in them, why would we????

-Dumont - seriously??? this guy has been a bust and injured most of his career

The rest of the players don't even warrant mentioning and as far as the goalies go, how many french goalies do you expect the habs to draft??? Goaltending is the ONLY position that Quebec has produced solid NHL players on a regular basis. Otherwise, there really haven't been a heck a lot of elite top 3 draft picks to come out of Quebec in a LONG time.

Has a Quebecer won the Norris since Bourque??? After Lemieux, I think St. Louis was the only Hart/Art Ross winner and again he was a LONG shot to make it in the NHL.

Even Vinny, who I believe is the last non-goaltender to be a top pick quebecer and won the Richard trophy once, and WAS conisdered a top 5 elite player in the league, is not longer considered among the league's elite. He has played well in this year's playoffs, but in his 13 years in the NHL he has cracked 100 points once, 90 points another time, 50 goals once, 40 goals once and 30 goals 3 times. Hardly what you would consider a future Hall of Famer type stats. Thank god for the lunacy of the TB owners, otherwise, we could potentially have given up Subban, Price, Pleks and Gorges (based on some media reports), for a worst overall contract then Scott Gomez (considering the $ and length of the contract)!!! Like I said before, if Yzerman called tomorrow, I wouldn't trade Subban straight up for Vinny!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are very few I would trade for subban or price but what I can tell you is I WOULD trade gomez and throw in spacek for Vinny Hey I can dream can"t I?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are very few I would trade for subban or price but what I can tell you is I WOULD trade gomez and throw in spacek for Vinny Hey I can dream can"t I?

If TB bit on a deal like this- and there may be some incentive for them to do so - even an old, beat up and slow, Spacek is an upgrade over MAB, and it would cut around 6 years of hell they will face with Vinny's contract during the last 5-6 years of his contract. But realistically, this year, Gomez is not movable.

I think that deal would be a clear win for us from the perspective of finally having a big centre, for the next 4 years - if Vinny can get some sort of consistency back. But the dream could turn into a nighmare prety quick since it it would lead to cap issues with us trying to resign Markov, Gorges (and my preference Wiz) this year and SUbban, Price next year. This year MaxPac will get a raise and if he and Eller continue to progress, it will also lead to cap issues in the future as we try and get them locked up. I also believe the last 5-6 years of Vinny's deal will be an absolute nightmare - he has what 10 years remaining and hasn't been very consistent over his career.

You know the Vinny deal is a perfect example of why I want to sign up Price and Subban long-term now. I've got no issues of signing a 22-23 year olds to 10-14 year deals, with the thought being that if you offer them a bit more now, they should be willing to take a bit less over the life of the contract to make it a better long-term cap hit (i.e. cap hit of around $5M for Price, $5.5M for Subban, rather then try and sign Price for $6 to 6.5MM and Subban for $7M to $7.5M hit in another two years) - it is a gamble, but I do believe both will be long-term studs. IF you hear the number thrown around for Shea Weber and what Cam Ward signed for, these numbers are pretty reasonable if Price and Subban are only signed to shorter term deals next year, or if they put up huge numbers by the end of next year. I'd rather lock them up this summer - yes new CBA may change things, but the elite guys are going to get their money and I'd like to lock both of these two up long term.

Locking up blue chip guys like Subban and Price's at their age makes a heck of a lot more sense then offering a 28-31 year old free agenst a 8-12 year deals - even if they are structured as legit contracts (i.e. not the type of retirement contracts like Kovulchuks that were disallowed).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if I agree with the argument of many in this thread that there are not enough quality Quebecers in the NHL, my question to you now is, If there were, would you agree that management target local players so the majority of the team is composed of Quebecers?

If not, what would be your argument then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if I agree with the argument of many in this thread that there are not enough quality Quebecers in the NHL, my question to you now is, If there were, would you agree that management target local players so the majority of the team is composed of Quebecers?

If not, what would be your argument then?

I would not agree. Would not reeeeaaaaaly bug me, but a little bit. My argument is all about to seperate politic and PRO sport. I just can't stand it. National anthems, yelling USA USA in the crowd, the composition of a team with Quebecers or Americans or whatever.

For me, the cultural aspect of PRO sports (any pro sport) should be about how the local population enjoy/react/get involved with the game. IMHO, there is NO WAY (zero) the politic should have anything to do with PRO sport, at any place, any moment.

On the other hand, I enjoy the patriotism associated with INTERNATIONAL competitions (Olympics, World Cup, etc) but when it comes to PRO sport, I just can't stand it.

But I enjoy it cuz it brings so much passion, not because countries can brag about being the best (AKA people at Vancouver Games with their sign "Hockey is Canada's sport" how pathetic was that).

If you think that pride is about nationality, you're wrong. - NOFX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if I agree with the argument of many in this thread that there are not enough quality Quebecers in the NHL, my question to you now is, If there were, would you agree that management target local players so the majority of the team is composed of Quebecers?

If not, what would be your argument then?

You target the best players period.

Hypothetically speaking, lets for arguments sake you have a draft year, where you have the #1 in the draft and the top two prospects are Crosby andLecavalier, who would you take??? Lets say that their numbers and future potential were being evaluated the same as what Crosby and Vinny's numbers were in the real draft year???

Do you target the local boy or do you take Crosby???

It's one thing when the top two picks to choose from are Lafleur and Dionne and you end up choosing from two Quebecors, but I DON"T want the habs to be in a position where politics come into play and you take the Quebecor over the better player.

People complain the habs passed on Gagne, but didn't they pick up another Quebecor with the earlier pick that year???? If memory serves me correctly, they picked Guy Chiounard's son that year.

In a similar circumstance, I remember back in 82 or 83, the North Stars wanted the American high school boy, Brian Lawton and passed on the guy who was considered the consensus #1 pick Lafontaine (who was also american, but played in the QMJHL). I remember the habs were trying to work out a deal to land a pick to get Lafontaine that year. It was a pretty amazing draft year, where Lafontaine and Yzerman were drafted behind Lawton and the little girl Sylvie Turgeon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if I agree with the argument of many in this thread that there are not enough quality Quebecers in the NHL, my question to you now is, If there were, would you agree that management target local players so the majority of the team is composed of Quebecers?

If not, what would be your argument then?

You target the best players available, period. There are a lot more NHL'ers from Ontario so should Ottawa and Toronto try to make it so their team is mostly Ontarian? Should Edmonton and Calgary primarily go after Albertans? Of course not. Why restrict your talent pool to draw from? (Which in a way ties us back to the original nature of this thread discussion with regards to a shallow talent pool for coaches/management...) If the best player available is a local, then by all means take him. But if he isn't, you don't, not if you want to maximize your chances at winning. Honestly, I wouldn't bat an eye if the players were all international and none of them spoke English; if that's the group of players that gives the Habs the best shot at winning, I'll be rooting for them no more or no less than a team composed of all Canadians. The interviews might suck but in this day and age, general interviews on the daily news and whatnot are becoming less and less important. As a fan, I value team success over all else, be it player nationality, style of play, etc. Targeting a certain group of players over others inherently reduces the chance of that success which is why I'm against doing so.

You target the best players period.

Hypothetically speaking, lets for arguments sake you have a draft year, where you have the #1 in the draft and the top two prospects are Crosby andLecavalier, who would you take??? Lets say that their numbers and future potential were being evaluated the same as what Crosby and Vinny's numbers were in the real draft year???

I didn't even read that before I posted my first sentence there, I think we're on the same page here... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the glory days, the Habs' position was always that they would choose the best player, but if two players were comparable, then all other things being equal they would pick the French one. I don't think anybody would have a problem with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the glory days, the Habs' position was always that they would choose the best player, but if two players were comparable, then all other things being equal they would pick the French one. I don't think anybody would have a problem with that.

Not at all, that's pretty much what they do now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the glory days, the Habs' position was always that they would choose the best player, but if two players were comparable, then all other things being equal they would pick the French one. I don't think anybody would have a problem with that.

not at all that is exactly the policy that brought us wickenhieser instead of denis savard. Good reasoning bad choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...