lazy26 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 When Campoli and Markov return you have 9 D on the roster. Those two are veteran Puck movers which mean diaz will no longer be in the lineup. Weber has no AHL eligibility, without waivers, left. Emelin has an out in his contract where he leaves for Russia rather than being sent to the AHL. Diaz can go to the AHL without clearing waivers, and has no such "out clause" in his contract. This leaves him as the odd man out, because the team will not carry 9 defencemen, and they won't want to lose Emelin or Weber for nothing. And really, as well as Diaz has played, I don't think playing major minutes in the AHL would be detrimental to his development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 When Campoli and Markov return you have 9 D on the roster. Those two are veteran Puck movers which mean diaz will no longer be in the lineup. Weber has no AHL eligibility, without waivers, left. Emelin has an out in his contract where he leaves for Russia rather than being sent to the AHL. Diaz can go to the AHL without clearing waivers, and has no such "out clause" in his contract. This leaves him as the odd man out, because the team will not carry 9 defencemen, and they won't want to lose Emelin or Weber for nothing. I'd have to agree. Tough call, though, since Diaz has been something of a revelation. Montreal has a real defence issue. Too many #4,5,6 guys and not enough top guys. If everyone can get healthy, I wonder if there's a possibility of a trade. Then again, you need tons of depth these days. Might be a problem that's worth having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patience is a virtue Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Montreal has a real defence issue. Too many #4,5,6 guys and not enough top guys. If everyone can get healthy, I wonder if there's a possibility of a trade. Then again, you need tons of depth these days. Might be a problem that's worth having. Agreed. It's the kind of problem you want to have, and one that PG purposefully created for himself, after prior experiences. Unfortunately for Diaz he is the guy with the two way contract. But, if the others are correct, it sounds like PG may carry 8 dmen, so Diaz could technically stay, at least until Campoli returns. But does he really want to sit in the 8th spot just waiting to be bumped down the ladder? I doubt it. I guess he'd rather play than watch and that PG would rather have him playing than watching. I bet he gets sent down to Ham after Markov returns and sticks. Unless he really comes on and forces Martin to sit Weber, Spac or Gill... I'm actually less worried about Diaz and more worried about turning off Emelin. He brings what the Habs lack on the back end. Everything possible should be done to encourage his speedy development. I'm not saying JM isn't doing what is best right now. I actually think the evidence is clear that Jacques is good at developing young talent. There are a lot of over-achieving sophomores with the club right now, none of whom were top 10 draft picks. I trust him with Emelin and am excited to see where he's at come playoff time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Things change over the course of the season. Emelin may be the odd man out right now but he could find his way into the lineup in the future, even after Markov returns. If the Canadiens ever have their top 25 players all healthy at once that would be amazing, but I wouldn't bet on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Things change over the course of the season. Emelin may be the odd man out right now but he could find his way into the lineup in the future, even after Markov returns. If the Canadiens ever have their top 25 players all healthy at once that would be amazing, but I wouldn't bet on it. We really do have an incredibly deep defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 When Markov and Campoli are both back, chances are another defensemen will be injured. Diaz in the AHL at any point of the season will be extremely temporary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 When Markov and Campoli are both back, chances are another defensemen will be injured. Diaz in the AHL at any point of the season will be extremely temporary. Agreed Diaz has shown he can play at this level. He makes a mistake here and there, but honestly the things that he has done well, at least in my eyes, greatly out weigh his downside and he has been a great asset to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 When Markov and Campoli are both back, chances are another defensemen will be injured. Diaz in the AHL at any point of the season will be extremely temporary. Great point. It's usually a trap to make major personnel decisions based on the best-case scenario. We'll need all of these defencemen before the season/playoffs (assuming we make the playoffs) are done with. If Vancouver could sit Ballard regularly last year, we can sit guys like Diaz and Emelin. As for Emelin, I get a bit leery of this whole 'if we don't play him he'll go back to Russia!' argument - and if that does happen, look out for the sh*tstorm that will descend on Martin's head from irate fans. Right now Emelin is on the outside looking in, but a smart player would look at the landscape and realize that, unless he seriously screws up, Spacek's slot will be handed to him on a platter next year. If Emelin takes off before then, then he simply is not and was never serious about making a go of it in the NHL in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Emelin is going to get into the lineup. Its just a matter of time before he gets a shot. Still this comes back to Martin's philosophy of not tinkering with a lineup that wins. As soon as there is a loss, we'll see a change that brings in Emelin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Diaz has played well enough to stay. Agreed. They will have a dilemma. This is what I was hinting at a week or so ago, when I had Emelin playing wing. I smell a trade coming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 As for Emelin, I get a bit leery of this whole 'if we don't play him he'll go back to Russia!' argument - and if that does happen, look out for the sh*tstorm that will descend on Martin's head from irate fans. Right now Emelin is on the outside looking in, but a smart player would look at the landscape and realize that, unless he seriously screws up, Spacek's slot will be handed to him on a platter next year. If Emelin takes off before then, then he simply is not and was never serious about making a go of it in the NHL in the first place. I haven't seen him play yet. Is Emelin on the bench because he's been our worst d-man or has his benching been controversial? I'm worried about him returning to Russia but if he isn't able to crack our top 6, who really cares? The concern is that he leaves before getting a fair chance to crack our top 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I haven't seen him play yet. Is Emelin on the bench because he's been our worst d-man or has his benching been controversial? I'm worried about him returning to Russia but if he isn't able to crack our top 6, who really cares? The concern is that he leaves before getting a fair chance to crack our top 6. I think Emelin is still adjusting to NA ice and right now he's been our 7th best D, but he's not that bad. He's got a lot of potential still IMO... and is not someone I'd want to lose for nothing. He was close enough to the 6th spot that he should get chances to play too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I think Emelin is still adjusting to NA ice and right now he's been our 7th best D, but he's not that bad. He's got a lot of potential still IMO... and is not someone I'd want to lose for nothing. He was close enough to the 6th spot that he should get chances to play too. No way should we trade Emelin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I wonder if the player who has to look behind them the most in the medium turn is actually Weber. Solid guy, but I think Diaz has a little more, and unless Montreal wants to take Spacek or Gill out of the lineup regularly (can't see it) then I think Weber might be the most vulnerable. He's a good enough PP guy, but when Diaz has another couple of weeks on him, he may be the better choice. Campoli will make for a crowd and some interesting developments at the back. Regarding Emelin, I wonder how close he is to Weber as well. While he doesn't bring the same offensive dimension, with the impression Diaz has made as well as a healthy Campoli, maybe a defensive d-man is the choice that's better suited to the lineup. I wasn't at all disappointed in what I saw from him; quite mature, solid defensively, and a good first pass. At least we have options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I wonder if the player who has to look behind them the most in the medium turn is actually Weber. Solid guy, but I think Diaz has a little more, and unless Montreal wants to take Spacek or Gill out of the lineup regularly (can't see it) then I think Weber might be the most vulnerable. He's a good enough PP guy, but when Diaz has another couple of weeks on him, he may be the better choice. Campoli will make for a crowd and some interesting developments at the back. Regarding Emelin, I wonder how close he is to Weber as well. While he doesn't bring the same offensive dimension, with the impression Diaz has made as well as a healthy Campoli, maybe a defensive d-man is the choice that's better suited to the lineup. I wasn't at all disappointed in what I saw from him; quite mature, solid defensively, and a good first pass. At least we have options. The big difference is the waiver eligibility. Weber needs waivers to go to the AHL. Diaz doesn't. On waivers Weber would be claimed, guaranteed. He has value. So I think Diaz is the one to go down if someone is sent to the AHL. Of course a trade could change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The big difference is the waiver eligibility. Weber needs waivers to go to the AHL. Diaz doesn't. On waivers Weber would be claimed, guaranteed. He has value. So I think Diaz is the one to go down if someone is sent to the AHL. Of course a trade could change things. No question. I'm thinking a little longer-term that the next month when Markov comes back. For instance, if, at the trade deadline, we have health and a guy like Emelin has proven he can make it at this level. What then? I think Weber is the so-called "trade bait." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Weber is 3rd amongst D-men in ice time, averaging over 20 minutes a game. I think he'll be staying in the lineup ahead of Diaz, especially since he and Spacek have been such an effective pairing since last year as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I wonder if the player who has to look behind them the most in the medium turn is actually Weber. Solid guy, but I think Diaz has a little more, and unless Montreal wants to take Spacek or Gill out of the lineup regularly (can't see it) then I think Weber might be the most vulnerable. He's a good enough PP guy, but when Diaz has another couple of weeks on him, he may be the better choice. Campoli will make for a crowd and some interesting developments at the back. Regarding Emelin, I wonder how close he is to Weber as well. While he doesn't bring the same offensive dimension, with the impression Diaz has made as well as a healthy Campoli, maybe a defensive d-man is the choice that's better suited to the lineup. I wasn't at all disappointed in what I saw from him; quite mature, solid defensively, and a good first pass. At least we have options. Campoli will be traded; the others will remain with the team. That's if we don't need everybody because of injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Campoli will be traded; the others will remain with the team. That's if we don't need everybody because of injuries. I don't know why you'd trade any of these D-men, unless we get a big injury up front or there are problems in the room due to overcrowding. None are going to bring back a high return on the trade market and barring serious injury (always a possibility with this bunch) our situation at FW is better than it's been in years. So you're either trading for a surplus forward, or trading for a low-to-middling pick, or trading for another surplus defenceman. Seems to me we'd be better off going into the playoffs with ALL these guys available. If you want to make a deep run, that's precisely the kind of depth you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I don't know why you'd trade any of these D-men, unless we get a big injury up front or there are problems in the room due to overcrowding. None are going to bring back a high return on the trade market and barring serious injury (always a possibility with this bunch) our situation at FW is better than it's been in years. So you're either trading for a surplus forward, or trading for a low-to-middling pick, or trading for another surplus defenceman. Seems to me we'd be better off going into the playoffs with ALL these guys available. If you want to make a deep run, that's precisely the kind of depth you want. I agree, I do not see what the rush is about to trade one of em. Campoli won't be back next year, neither will Spacek. There will be roster spots open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I agree, I do not see what the rush is about to trade one of em. Campoli won't be back next year, neither will Spacek. There will be roster spots open. That's what I believe, but if we come to have too many defensemen (and it won't happen until Campoli will be healthy), then Campoli would be the one to go; the others are too valuable IMO. Of course, there could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Wasn't Campoli sitting at home, waiting for phone call from any team with a need on D? Who's going to trade for him anyway? Let's keep him, we need the depth. In fact, I can't wait to have both Campoli and Markov in the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 If Emelin takes off before then, then he simply is not and was never serious about making a go of it in the NHL in the first place. I completely agree with you. I hate the fact that the habs agreed to his demands with regards to the AHL. Why do I get the feeling that Emelin isn't gonna stay with us very long? I'm really starting to get turned off by Russian players. I know that they don't all act like this, but why is it we have had soo many problems with these guys? (Emelin, Malakhov, The Kostitsyn brothers, Grabovski and a few others...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Why is Emelin a problem? He's done nothing wrong except negotiate an out clause in his contract. The reason for wanting the out clause is simple. He can make anywhere from $300,000 - $800,000 playing in the KHL (tax free). In the AHL he's gonna make $80-100,000, tax free. Careers are short, and he wants to get paid while he can, and not toil in the AHL for 1/5th - 1/10th the Money he could get in Russia. I have no issue with Emelin's out clause. Every single one of us would do the same if there was a job waiting for us at 5-10x the pay, and closer to home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Why is Emelin a problem? He's done nothing wrong except negotiate an out clause in his contract. The reason for wanting the out clause is simple. He can make anywhere from $300,000 - $800,000 playing in the KHL (tax free). In the AHL he's gonna make $80-100,000, tax free. Careers are short, and he wants to get paid while he can, and not toil in the AHL for 1/5th - 1/10th the Money he could get in Russia. I have no issue with Emelin's out clause. Every single one of us would do the same if there was a job waiting for us at 5-10x the pay, and closer to home. I just think that he would benefit as a player by a year in the ahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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