Habs30/31 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 With Therrien applying pressure on the 4th line to contribute offensively, the message is clear for Manny Malhotra: winning face-offs is not enough, you also have to score goals and make plays occasionally. If no. 20 finds himself unable to answer the call, I see him sitting upstairs before long. It will be either Eller or DD who will get the call to replace him. Even Plekanec could be asked to center the 4th line from to time. I had seen the promotion of Chucky to the 1st line coming for a long time. This time I predict the demotion of Malhotra at the beginning of 2015. The reason is very simple: management wants a team firing on all cylinders for the play-offs. Obviously, the 4th line is not doing its part, hence the need for a change. Next step will be the defense. Guys like Gilbert, Allen and Weaver will be evaluated closely in the next few weeks. Clearly, Beaulieu has earned a spot IMO, and Gonchar is solid enough to be part of the squad in the play-offs. If we consider that Markov, Subban and Emelin are our core three, Gonchar and Beaulieu the next two, we need one more regular to complete the squad. Weaver probably has an edge over Gilbert and Allen, but I doubt that management has much confidence in him. My opinion is that Tinordi will complete the squad. The opportunity will come after New Year. That's what I hope anyway. Well said. Agree with your take on the D. Although I have a feeling Gonchar will not have much to offer come April play off hockey. But I could be wrong there. Manny, no way. He is here for the season, no scratches, no replacing him. Will be a huge asset come play off time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 If Malhotra scores nothing more all year, I bet he still isn't scratched. Habs were horrible as team in faceoffs for years and now are easily1st overall. Not just a coincidence. Would be nice to see him bang home a couple but wont hold my breath till he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 If Malhotra scores nothing more all year, I bet he still isn't scratched. Habs were horrible as team in faceoffs for years and now are easily1st overall. Not just a coincidence. Would be nice to see him bang home a couple but wont hold my breath till he does. 05-06: 21st 06-07: 18th 07-08: 22nd 08-09: 14th 09-10: 16th 10-11: 22nd 11-12: 25th 12-13: 17th 13-14: 17th 14-15: 1st Almost impossible to call it a coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Malhotra wasn't brought into contribute offensively. 4th lines job is to prevent goals and add energy. The game they were sat was that they weren't getting the job done defensively. Malhotra can maybe score 5 goals at this stage of his career - in a good year.Agreed. Malhotra started last year on a PTO with Carolina's AHL affiliate, and only had 13 points in 69 games. If Therrien wants offense out of Manny, he can start by giving him more than 20% of his zone starts in the offensive zone. I'm not fluent enough with Waronice.com to see, but that has to be the lowest zone start total in the league. His role is clear, to win critical faceoffs in the defensive zone and chip in on penalty kill. He's a good guy. A coach that would replace him to get a few more points out of the fourth line would be thinking too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 05-06: 21st 06-07: 18th 07-08: 22nd 08-09: 14th 09-10: 16th 10-11: 22nd 11-12: 25th 12-13: 17th 13-14: 17th 14-15: 1st Almost impossible to call it a coincidence. It is definitely not. Bringing in a true elite faceoffs guy like Manny AND the emergence of Eller as a VERY good faceoffs C contributed. But without Many, we would be 12th-15th or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 It is definitely not. Bringing in a true elite faceoffs guy like Manny AND the emergence of Eller as a VERY good faceoffs C contributed. But without Many, we would be 12th-15th or so. might be the biggest addition to the club for this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I am pretty damn happy with Malholtra just the way he is now, would it be nice if he got more points? Yeah but he isn't going to, so let's be happy we have a guy who made us into the number 1 face off team in the nhl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Am I the only guy who thinks faceoff percentage is highly overrated? I mean, most of the league is a coin flip one way or the other who wins. There usually are only a couple really important draws that happens each game, and even if you lose the draw, it doesn't exactly prelude to a goal being scored. There are dozens and dozens of faceoffs each game (would be interested to know the actual amount) but only a few goals scored. How often does a goal occur because of a won or lost faceoff? Not very often. Possession changes constantly throughout the game. It's just something I can't seem to wrap my head around. If a guy is winning 48% he sucks, but if he is winning 52% he is good. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on this apparently important statistic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Am I the only guy who thinks faceoff percentage is highly overrated? I mean, most of the league is a coin flip one way or the other who wins. There usually are only a couple really important draws that happens each game, and even if you lose the draw, it doesn't exactly prelude to a goal being scored. There are dozens and dozens of faceoffs each game (would be interested to know the actual amount) but only a few goals scored. How often does a goal occur because of a won or lost faceoff? Not very often. Possession changes constantly throughout the game. It's just something I can't seem to wrap my head around. If a guy is winning 48% he sucks, but if he is winning 52% he is good. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on this apparently important statistic yes u r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 yes u r Thanks for your in depth thoughts on the matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Thanks for your in depth thoughts on the matter That's a good question. Losing a faceoff, I guess, means that a team won't be able to get the puck back for at least ten seconds, and in that case, the change in possession would be a brutal turnover. In the course of a one minute shift, losing a face off means more often than not the loser will not score a goal, and vice versa with winner. I don't think that faceoffs are so important that Manny Malhotra will be resigned at his current point pace, but he's an important weapon on a team like MTL that is weak on cycle play. This is also (yet) another axe to grind for fans. I think like with possession stats, the effects are felt in extremes. A team with a sub-48% faceoff percentage is deficient and a team over 53% is helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I would like everyone to know that the ignore function works. It prevents you from seeing the ramblings of some idiots. I only see these ramblings if you quote them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I think in the overall "big picture" of the 60 minutes of a game, faceoffs are extremely important. Especially in light of the sometimes circus that occurs when this Mtl team gets hemmed in it's own zone, like Lovett's mentions, the cycling deficiency we seem to own. Faceoff wins give you possession, it's that simple, in the offensive zone, it can lead to a shot or scoring chance, in the defensive zone, it means getting a leg up on getting the puck out, obviously, we pretty much all know this, but may not think it's a big deal. However, puck possession is a big deal, and over the course of an entire game, you get wore down, and give up chances in trying to get the puck back, so obviously the easier the procurement of the puck(by winning the draw), less expense of energy to get it back after losing the draw. In a close game, late in the game, that's when you can just "feel" how important they are, same as when short handed, you don't want that floater from the point richochet-ing it's way in, all for the simple fact you couldn't win a draw in your own end. So yeah, I think faceoffs are very important, and Habs have been less than stellar before this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I would like everyone to know that the ignore function works. It prevents you from seeing the ramblings of some idiots. I only see these ramblings if you quote them. gotcha .... my bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Specialty teams. Late in a period or in a game. Team is protecting a lead, you want a great face off guy. Late in a game and you are down a goal or two and are on the comeback. You want a great face off guy. Nothing new here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Face-offs are important, but we are a low scoring team. Let's face it, Malhotra has contributed nothing so far to the offense, and by the way he is playing after the face-offs, it is highly probable that he won't contribute either in the future. What do you do when, most of the time, you absolutely need a goal? You put offensive players on the ice. With the Habs, the way it looks right now, it means sitting Malhotra on the bench. There is no other alternatives. That's why I see Eller or Plekanec centering the 4th (Plex with Weise and Prust looked pretty much like a 4th line yesterday). Bournival and Andrighetto could earn a spot too. They are very fast and should open the ice for the team. I am optimistic, changes are coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Face-offs are important, but we are a low scoring team. Let's face it, Malhotra has contributed nothing so far to the offense, and by the way he is playing after the face-offs, it is highly probable that he won't contribute either in the future. What do you do when, most of the time, you absolutely need a goal? You put offensive players on the ice. With the Habs, the way it looks right now, it means sitting Malhotra on the bench. There is no other alternatives. That's why I see Eller or Plekanec centering the 4th (Plex with Weise and Prust looked pretty much like a 4th line yesterday). Bournival and Andrighetto could earn a spot too. They are very fast and should open the ice for the team. I am optimistic, changes are coming. Dont remember habs ever being first in face offs. Ever. Now they are. I dont underestimate the impact of that. That can be directly attributed to Manny. Fourth liners under therrien rarely start off in the offensive zone. Rarely get much ice time. It is what it is. When was the last fourth liner in montreal that scored goals. Manny is likely the most valuable fourth liner the habs have had for quite some time. He and Prust. Wiess i like too. That is a damn good fourth line for a play off series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 52% vs 48% is sort of like difference between a .310 and a .330 batter, 90+% of time will have exact same result. But a better centre will squeeze that extra PK faceoff win and puck is sent down the ice for 20 seconds, instead of Toews back to Keith and rips a screened shot from point. Might not notice but at end of day faceoffs will cost/save a goal here & there and no one will argue it isn't better to win more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 52% vs 48% is sort of like difference between a .310 and a .330 batter, 90+% of time will have exact same result. But a better centre will squeeze that extra PK faceoff win and puck is sent down the ice for 20 seconds, instead of Toews back to Keith and rips a screened shot from point. Might not notice but at end of day faceoffs will cost/save a goal here & there and no one will argue it isn't better to win more. This. Also important in fatigue/energy level at the end of a game. Timeout as well. Sometimes, lost faceoffs lead to spending more time recovering the puck in our own zone. Means that a coach cannot match lines as easily as he'd want. Could lead to dumb/desperate icings. Could lead to unexpected/wasted timeout like we had to take against Anaheim last week (looking at you Tangradi). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Could lead to unexpected/wasted timeout like we had to take against Anaheim last week (looking at you Tangradi). Hahaha. He went right back to the minors after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Also recently down 2-0 to dallas. 7 seconds left in second period DD loses draw cleanly. Pucks in the back of habs net. 3-0 Stars. Game over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Talking about Malhotra, the fact is that Therrien is obviously getting less patient with him. Sooner or later, as good as he is taking face-offs, he will be sent to the press box if he is not able to generate more offense. The trend is there: he has been playing less minutes lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I would like everyone to know that the ignore function works. It prevents you from seeing the ramblings of some idiots. I only see these ramblings if you quote them. Merry Christmas habs rule Somebody needs to quote this though so he knows that the idiot wishes him well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Some great replies and different opinions on that topic, thanks. I definitely agree that winning faceoffs are important, I just personally think that the percentages are blown out of proportion, clutch wins are what really matters. If Manny is THE guy that will certainly win a crucial draw, then I think he is deserving of a roster spot for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Also recently down 2-0 to dallas. 7 seconds left in second period DD loses draw cleanly. Pucks in the back of habs net. 3-0 Stars. Game over. Good point, most teams have F/O specialist. It is very important to get the puck out of your end or to set up a scoring chance in the the other end. You can't overemphasize the importance. I agree that Malholtra needs more offence but look at Boston. Isn't it Bergeron who takes all the important face offs? Takes face off/gets off. And that is what Malholtra does for us. If he had Patrices offensive skill he would be paid BIG money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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