BCHabnut Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 This is where it get"s interesting. I think AK is a great asset at his current price. At 4.5 locked in for 3 years, it becomes a bit more questionable, but I could still live with it. 4 mill for 3 years would be perfect. 500 thou uplift for montreal. I just don't think he will stay with the Habs, unless he has a good year. If they are a fringe team, PG may want to trade him for a 2nd round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I'm not so sure AK46 is worth 4 million$ per year? His best season was 26 goals and 27 assists, and that was 4 years ago. He hasn't done much since then. I'd offer him 10.5 million$ over 3 years (at the most). If he takes it, good, if not, trade his ass out of town! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I think the development of Palushaj and Leblanc over the course of the season, and whether one of the two is ready for full time NHL action on the third line next season will have a huge impact on what happens with Kostitsyn this summer, in terms of signing/not signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 On the UFA market, Kosty is a 3.5 to 4.5 mill player. In Montreal players typically get an extra 500 thou. No way he comes back to Montreal for much less than 4 mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Maybe the question for Kosty's fans is, at what point do you say he's not worth it? $4 mil? $5 mil? Of course some will reply that he should have been locked-up long-term at $3.5. For me this is just more fantasy-land thinking where players somehow are incapable of determining their actual market worth, or else are so deeply touched by the team's interest that they're willing to undersell themselves for years to come out of sheer sentimentality. So let's have the hard discussion. How much should we be willing to pay for Andrei Kostitsyn? Frankly, I would have preferred the habs offered him the deal Cole got. I'd much rather have AK46 at his age on a 4 year deal then Cole. Having said that, i do believe they probably could have locked him up for 4 years for $4M. Now if he exceeds Cole's totals this year, he is going to be looking for $4.5M + to stay. However, frankly, I don't think Martin likes him, so he probably won't be retained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 This is where it get"s interesting. I think AK is a great asset at his current price. At 4.5 locked in for 3 years, it becomes a bit more questionable, but I could still live with it. 4 mill for 3 years would be perfect. 500 thou uplift for montreal. I just don't think he will stay with the Habs, unless he has a good year. If they are a fringe team, PG may want to trade him for a 2nd round pick. Trading Ak46 for a 2nd round pick, IMO would be stupidity. How many second rounders have the habs drafted that are consistent 20 + goal scorers. IMO, AK46 WILL score 30+ as soon as he gets out of Montreal and plays for a coach who appreciates him. I think the development of Palushaj and Leblanc over the course of the season, and whether one of the two is ready for full time NHL action on the third line next season will have a huge impact on what happens with Kostitsyn this summer, in terms of signing/not signing. I don't think Palushaj or Leblanc are going to replace Ak46's physical play. Maybe they will turn out to come close to his production in another 2 years, but the only physical offensive threats the habs have are Ak46, Cole and MaxPac. I'd rather add to that then subtract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 On the UFA market, Kosty is a 3.5 to 4.5 mill player. In Montreal players typically get an extra 500 thou. No way he comes back to Montreal for much less than 4 mill. I think they could have signed him for $4M last summer - a blunder in my opinion of not locking him up. They may be able to sign him for closer to $4.5M IF and ONLY if, PG gets off this absurd policy of not negotiating during the year. If I'm PG, I'd start negotiating now, and lock him up by before the new year. The longer he waits, the more the price goes up and once you get past the trade deadline, AK46 will want to test free agency. If he does go to free agency, he is gone. It will cost at least $4.5M to sign him, but IMO, the habs will make another dumb move and trade him for a lousy return or lose him for nothing over the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Trading Ak46 for a 2nd round pick, IMO would be stupidity. How many second rounders have the habs drafted that are consistent 20 + goal scorers. IMO, AK46 WILL score 30+ as soon as he gets out of Montreal and plays for a coach who appreciates him. I don't think Palushaj or Leblanc are going to replace Ak46's physical play. Maybe they will turn out to come close to his production in another 2 years, but the only physical offensive threats the habs have are Ak46, Cole and MaxPac. I'd rather add to that then subtract. Agreed on the physical play re: Palushaj, but I think Leblanc is far more gritty than you give him credit for. He may not be Kostitsyn's size, but he brings a physical dimension to his game. As for trading Kosty... if they know they can't re-sign him, it should be something to explore at the deadline, depending on the health of other players, the standings, development of the prospects, other available replacements etc.... a second round pick may not be a consistent 20 goal scorer, but its better than losing Kosty for nothing. And one of the Habs recent second rounders is PK Subban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Agreed on the physical play re: Palushaj, but I think Leblanc is far more gritty than you give him credit for. He may not be Kostitsyn's size, but he brings a physical dimension to his game. As for trading Kosty... if they know they can't re-sign him, it should be something to explore at the deadline, depending on the health of other players, the standings, development of the prospects, other available replacements etc.... a second round pick may not be a consistent 20 goal scorer, but its better than losing Kosty for nothing. And one of the Habs recent second rounders is PK Subban. Ideally, I'd like to see the habs sign AK46 for up to $4.75M. IMO adding a guy like Leblanc (if he is ready), would finally allow us to drop Darche or Moen from the top 9. I'm really sick of seeing Darche getting PP time or between 12-16 minutes a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Ideally, I'd like to see the habs sign AK46 for up to $4.75M. IMO adding a guy like Leblanc (if he is ready), would finally allow us to drop Darche or Moen from the top 9. I'm really sick of seeing Darche getting PP time or between 12-16 minutes a game. A fully healthy lineup already has Moen on the 4th line and Darche in the press box. If we were ever healthy, we'd have Cammy, Pleks, Cole, Pacioretty, Gomez, Gionta, Desharnais, Eller, Kostitsyn, (in some combo anyway) as the top 9 and Moen - Nokaleinen - White on the fourth... .IMO. We just have never been fully healthy, so guys are moved up the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Ideally, I'd like to see the habs sign AK46 for up to $4.75M. IMO adding a guy like Leblanc (if he is ready), would finally allow us to drop Darche or Moen from the top 9. I'm really sick of seeing Darche getting PP time or between 12-16 minutes a game. The team is deep enough right now to keep Darche and Moen off the top 9 if they would stay healthy. Too many of the top 9 are getting hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 The team is deep enough right now to keep Darche and Moen off the top 9 if they would stay healthy. Too many of the top 9 are getting hurt. Darche and Moen usually find their way on the top 9 even with a healthy lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Darche and Moen usually find their way on the top 9 even with a healthy lineup. We don't know that, we've never once had a healthy lineup this season. Eller was hurt to start the year, then Cammy got hurt, then Gomez, etc... We've never seen the top 9 all healthy. However I believe if they were, we wouldn't see Moen or Darche in that role this season. That was the whole reason we added Cole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 We don't know that, we've never once had a healthy lineup this season. Eller was hurt to start the year, then Cammy got hurt, then Gomez, etc... We've never seen the top 9 all healthy. However I believe if they were, we wouldn't see Moen or Darche in that role this season. That was the whole reason we added Cole. well, if and when we are ever healthy, i hope you are right. But i suspect that White would get benched ahead of Darche, as soon as he makes a single mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 well, if and when we are ever healthy, i hope you are right. But i suspect that White would get benched ahead of Darche, as soon as he makes a single mistake. White vs Darche I could see as a legit competition, I agree there. But I don't think either would be in the top 9 of a healthy team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'm not so sure AK46 is worth 4 million$ per year? His best season was 26 goals and 27 assists, and that was 4 years ago. He hasn't done much since then. I'd offer him 10.5 million$ over 3 years (at the most). If he takes it, good, if not, trade his ass out of town! Someone will always pay. Has Erik Cole really every done much better? Yes Cole once hit 29 and once hit 30 goals but he is usually around the 20-26 range. Nathan Horton is usually in the 20-26 goals range and is making $4.0. Would I want to pay AK46 $4.0 per season, no, but teams will always overpay and that's the problem. Personally I would see if we can sign him for a 3-4 year contract in the $3.25-$3.5 range like you said but since that seems unlikely then I would be shopping him right now to see what we can get. Nashville is hungry for scoring so why not search that market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 We're not gonna trade Kostitsyn unless the team is really on the ropes, or else hopelessly out of the playoffs. Think about it. Despite his mediocre playoff history (and the sample size is really too small to draw any definitve conclusions that he's not a playoff guy, especially as he does have one solid playoff out of three) Kosty is just the sort of scoring depth you want as you load up for a playoff run. If we are in a position to make the playoffs, then, we will keep him for that purpose - kind of a 'free' rental player. I know people will raise howls of outrage if/when he proceeds to sign elsewhere as a UFA, but then again you'll never win anything if you deplete your roster at every trading deadline. I'm pretty sure the Habs will keep him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 We're not gonna trade Kostitsyn unless the team is really on the ropes, or else hopelessly out of the playoffs. Think about it. Despite his mediocre playoff history (and the sample size is really too small to draw any definitve conclusions that he's not a playoff guy, especially as he does have one solid playoff out of three) Kosty is just the sort of scoring depth you want as you load up for a playoff run. If we are in a position to make the playoffs, then, we will keep him for that purpose - kind of a 'free' rental player. I know people will raise howls of outrage if/when he proceeds to sign elsewhere as a UFA, but then again you'll never win anything if you deplete your roster at every trading deadline. I'm pretty sure the Habs will keep him. I'd go so far as not to call him depth. He should be considered an important piece. With the way the lines ended last night, putting Moen on the 4th and putting Kosty with Eller and Gomer might give us three solid lines. (Not that Moen deserves that demotion with his production so far, but you have to think that at some point Hands-of-Stone Moen will cool off!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'd go so far as not to call him depth. He should be considered an important piece. With the way the lines ended last night, putting Moen on the 4th and putting Kosty with Eller and Gomer might give us three solid lines. (Not that Moen deserves that demotion with his production so far, but you have to think that at some point Hands-of-Stone Moen will cool off!) Yeah, I agree. What i really meant was that losing him leaves a significant roster hole, not want you want as you head into the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'd go so far as not to call him depth. He should be considered an important piece. With the way the lines ended last night, putting Moen on the 4th and putting Kosty with Eller and Gomer might give us three solid lines. (Not that Moen deserves that demotion with his production so far, but you have to think that at some point Hands-of-Stone Moen will cool off!) Eller and AK46 seem to have good chemistry with one another but I wonder what happens if Gomez is the 3rd piece to that puzzle. Eller likes to carry the puck so what happens if he is asked to be the finisher instead? I think right now we cannot touch that 2 and a half men line because they are doing well. And I think Cammalleri needs to play with Plekanec. Personally I would prefer Ak46 moves back to the 1st and then Gio and Gomez play alongside Eller. I don't know for some reason I really cannot stand Gio playing with pleks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Eller and AK46 seem to have good chemistry with one another but I wonder what happens if Gomez is the 3rd piece to that puzzle. Eller likes to carry the puck so what happens if he is asked to be the finisher instead? I think right now we cannot touch that 2 and a half men line because they are doing well. And I think Cammalleri needs to play with Plekanec. Personally I would prefer Ak46 moves back to the 1st and then Gio and Gomez play alongside Eller. I don't know for some reason I really cannot stand Gio playing with pleks. Part of me completely disagrees with the two and a half men line because they're just not as effective defensively, and that leaves DD horridly exposed. However, there's no arguing chemistry, and also no arguing insulating DD with two big bodies to allow the half-man some space. I'm not a big fan of DD, but if he has to be in the lineup, maybe there's no better place. By the way, I think that's an awesome name for the line. Remember the Legion of Doom? We have the Two and a Half Men! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Part of me completely disagrees with the two and a half men line because they're just not as effective defensively, and that leaves DD horridly exposed. However, there's no arguing chemistry, and also no arguing insulating DD with two big bodies to allow the half-man some space. I'm not a big fan of DD, but if he has to be in the lineup, maybe there's no better place. By the way, I think that's an awesome name for the line. Remember the Legion of Doom? We have the Two and a Half Men! I am with you on this one. I do not know what to make of DD. He is horrific in the faceoff circle one night but then the next night he wins 70%. The guy looks horrible defensively but then is used on the PK. He is physically outmatched by so many players and yet produces offensively on an almost nighty basis. Who the heck is DD? I don't know whether he is replaceable or an important piece of this puzzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 We're not gonna trade Kostitsyn unless the team is really on the ropes, or else hopelessly out of the playoffs. Think about it. Despite his mediocre playoff history (and the sample size is really too small to draw any definitve conclusions that he's not a playoff guy, especially as he does have one solid playoff out of three) Kosty is just the sort of scoring depth you want as you load up for a playoff run. If we are in a position to make the playoffs, then, we will keep him for that purpose - kind of a 'free' rental player. I know people will raise howls of outrage if/when he proceeds to sign elsewhere as a UFA, but then again you'll never win anything if you deplete your roster at every trading deadline. I'm pretty sure the Habs will keep him. This one always makes me laugh. Losing assets. If he was a depth rental who was let go at the end of the season for a playoff run, we would praise the gm for trading a 2 nd rounder to get him, but because we already have him and are poised for a playoff run, the gm is scorned for not getting a return when he is let go in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenadian Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Reunite him with his Bro................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 I hope that they resign him to a 4 year deal. I'd do up to $4.5M and then dump Gomez next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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