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Rangers vs Habs, Nov. 19, 7 PM EST


dlbalr

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The Stall brother is probably ahead of him, but he is injured. Still, i believe that we have a nice bunch of youngsters and won't miss him at all. Next training camp, guys like Nathan Beaulieu and Jarred Tinordi will be closer to the NHL. Both of them, IMO, will be better than him.

I like our youngsters too, we'll see if they end up better or not, but they definitely have the promise.

However I don't think you can ever have too many prospects back on defence and if we kept McDonagh we had a few other options...

we might not have traded up for Tinordi... and picked a couple of 1st/2nd round forwards instead.

or

We might trade one of our current D to get forward help.

It still can be seen that we need more young forwards. We really could use another primo young forward prospect and having excess D can allow you to get one.

There isn't much doubt that the Gomez trade was a mistake that the team would erase in a second if they had a Doc Brown time machine.

I'd love to see Gomez become a valuable contributor to this team... but at the end of the day there is nothing he can do that makes the trade any less of a failure. Its just putting lipstick on a pig at this point.

But the fact is that what's done is done, and you move forward with what you have, and hope Gomez can produce because a 60 pt player helps the team. But even with a 60 pt Gomez, the Rangers win the deal.

The most frustrating thing is that it could have been totally avoided. Given Gomez's cap hit and how desperate the Rangers were to get rid of him, McDonagh never should have been included in the first place. Higgins + Valentenko should have been more than enough.

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I like our youngsters too, we'll see if they end up better or not, but they definitely have the promise.

However I don't think you can ever have too many prospects back on defence and if we kept McDonagh we had a few other options...

we might not have traded up for Tinordi... and picked a couple of 1st/2nd round forwards instead.

or

We might trade one of our current D to get forward help.

It still can be seen that we need more young forwards. We really could use another primo young forward prospect and having excess D can allow you to get one.

There isn't much doubt that the Gomez trade was a mistake that the team would erase in a second if they had a Doc Brown time machine.

I'd love to see Gomez become a valuable contributor to this team... but at the end of the day there is nothing he can do that makes the trade any less of a failure. Its just putting lipstick on a pig at this point.

But the fact is that what's done is done, and you move forward with what you have, and hope Gomez can produce because a 60 pt player helps the team. But even with a 60 pt Gomez, the Rangers win the deal.

The most frustrating thing is that it could have been totally avoided. Given Gomez's cap hit and how desperate the Rangers were to get rid of him, McDonagh never should have been included in the first place. Higgins + Valentenko should have been more than enough.

Gainey is an intelligent man. If he could have gotten Gomez for Higgins and Valentenko, he would have done it. Obviously, such a deal was not possible. The idea behind the Gomez deal (with the Gionta and Cammalleri signings) was to add talent to the offense. When you look at it, it worked pretty well because those guys were a big factor in the 2010 Stanley Cup run. Of course, we came up short, but it's not an easy quest anyway. When you think about it, most of the teams who have gone very far were the ones who had the "opportunity" to draft very early a few years before: Pittsburgh, Chicago, Carolina, Tampa Bay -- Boston (even though they had Tyler Seguin) and Detroit being exceptions.

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That we could move McDonagh is a testament to how solid the organization depth is at defence. While we may not be eager to have guys like Diaz, Weber, and St Denis step in for extended periods, the fact we have Beaulieu, Tinordi, and Emelin gives us the ability to make the occasional risky trade without killing the club.

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McDonagh would have been the answer to "Why did we let Hamrlik go?"

I don't live in the past. McDonagh is gone and he won't be back. Hamrlik wasn't signed because he wanted to sign a multi-year contract, something Gauthier was not willing to do, given his age and the fact that we have a number of youngsters waiting for a chance to prove what they can do. That was a good decision IMO. The way I see it, our rookies make mistakes but they are also getting better. Soon, there will be a crowd at the blue line. Markov will be back in early December, Campoli not far behind. Where would fit McDonagh in the line-up? I don't know, and I don't want to know, because the alternatives are there, and they are good. In other words, we don't need him and won't need him.

Way to go Emelin, Diaz, Weber, St-Denis and (very soon) Beaulieu and Tinordi.

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:lol:

I like pretty much everyone on Cyberpresse. Cantin, Brunet, Godin and Gagnon. They're all good.

Thanks for confirming what I was saying!

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I don't live in the past. McDonagh is gone and he won't be back. Hamrlik wasn't signed because he wanted to sign a multi-year contract, something Gauthier was not willing to do, given his age and the fact that we have a number of youngsters waiting for a chance to prove what they can do. That was a good decision IMO. The way I see it, our rookies make mistakes but they are also getting better. Soon, there will be a crowd at the blue line. Markov will be back in early December, Campoli not far behind. Where would fit McDonagh in the line-up? I don't know, and I don't want to know, because the alternatives are there, and they are good. In other words, we don't need him and won't need him.

Way to go Emelin, Diaz, Weber, St-Denis and (very soon) Beaulieu and Tinordi.

I'm not living in the past. I'm talking about the very real current need for a rock-solid, two-way defensemen who can eat big minutes that the team currently lacks. Gorges was it briefly, but got back to being Gorges. Campoli isn't it. Emelin isn't it. Diaz isn't it.

Where would McDonagh fit in the lineup? The answer is ahead of everyone except Markov. Please don't downplay his talent just because we lost "The Trade" he was involved in.

Also, I'm as excited about the other defensemen in the organization as anyone. I'm excited for Greg Pateryn, even...

but "The Trade" still stings.

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I'm not living in the past. I'm talking about the very real current need for a rock-solid, two-way defensemen who can eat big minutes that the team currently lacks. Gorges was it briefly, but got back to being Gorges. Campoli isn't it. Emelin isn't it. Diaz isn't it.

Where would McDonagh fit in the lineup? The answer is ahead of everyone except Markov. Please don't downplay his talent just because we lost "The Trade" he was involved in.

Also, I'm as excited about the other defensemen in the organization as anyone. I'm excited for Greg Pateryn, even...

but "The Trade" still stings.

I agree with all that.

I'd have Subban ahead of McDonagh, but the rest I agree with 100%.

There is no way we can say that losing McDonagh doesn't hurt the team. Even if he was replaced... it doesn't change the fact that he was an asset that was lost for less than full value. You can never have too many good young dmen. And McD brought elements to our D that Weber, Diaz, etc... don't bring.

Basically McDonagh already is, what we hope Emelin can become in the best case scenario.

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I'm not living in the past. I'm talking about the very real current need for a rock-solid, two-way defensemen who can eat big minutes that the team currently lacks. Gorges was it briefly, but got back to being Gorges. Campoli isn't it. Emelin isn't it. Diaz isn't it.

Where would McDonagh fit in the lineup? The answer is ahead of everyone except Markov. Please don't downplay his talent just because we lost "The Trade" he was involved in.

Also, I'm as excited about the other defensemen in the organization as anyone. I'm excited for Greg Pateryn, even...

but "The Trade" still stings.

A trade is a trade. You win some, you lose some. What we have to recognize is that the team, as it is, is the sum of a large number of moves, either trades, draft picks, free agents signings or whatever... Anyhow, given the fact that we weren't able to pick among the first top five picks like Pittsburgh, Chicago and Edmonton have done in the past, I believe that management has done a good job over all. Very few teams make the playoffs as often as the Habs. Management has achieved that despite a lot of hurdles. I tip my hat to Gainey and Gauthier. The Gomez trade is done, the SK74, the Latendresse and the Ribeiro trades as well, to name just a few. Some of those players enjoy them better out of Montreal. We don't have much in the current team to compensate for the loss, that's for sure. On the other hand, for different reasons, they had to go. Most of them could not stand the heat of playing in Montreal. Unfortunately, it's not everybody who can withstand pressure like a Carey Price. I remember that a guy like Pierre Turgeon could not, unlike Vincent Damphousse, Kirk Muller or Bobby Smith, who were big contributors to the team.

When you think about the Gomez trade, just remember the Craig Rivet trade. We have Gorges and Pacciorety in the team because of that trade. Not bad at all, and certainly good enough to stop thinking about McDonagh.

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I agree that Gainey and Gauthier have done a good job overall (I'll add Timmins into that mix too). I do like the make up of our team, and as I've said I think that we are close to true contenders, especially if we get a legit 2nd line centre contribution out of Gomez.

However I'm not gonna downplay how good McDonagh is (and he's a very good young defenceman) because of that. The kid has talent, and would be an asset to the Habs if in Montreal today.

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McDonaugh reminds me alot of Gorges. I was at the game and watching both of these guys closely. When you think of Gorges what comes to mind? He is not great defensively, not physical, not offensive, not a good fighter.....just a warrior. He wears his heart on his sleeve, never gives up, plays positional hockey and is a leader. I see so many of those qualities with McDonaugh.

Losing him does hurt no doubt because he would be in that line-up right now but if Gomez can play like he did against those Rangers on a fairly consistent time then I think we are going to be OK.

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I agree that Gainey and Gauthier have done a good job overall (I'll add Timmins into that mix too). I do like the make up of our team, and as I've said I think that we are close to true contenders, especially if we get a legit 2nd line centre contribution out of Gomez.

However I'm not gonna downplay how good McDonagh is (and he's a very good young defenceman) because of that. The kid has talent, and would be an asset to the Habs if in Montreal today.

All right with me. I will look at McDonagh more closely, but IMO he is the kind of guy we can replace. I would not say that if we had traded Subban, even Beaulieu (I think he has the potential to become an all-star) for instance. I remember that Bob Gainey traded a young Jarome Iginla for Joe Nieuwendyk in 1995; Dallas went on to win the Cup. Nieuwendyk remained a very good player, but his star was fading while Iginla was on the rise -- he is still one of the best power forwards in hockey. It says it all: sometimes you have to make a risky move, give something of value to get the missing link for a Stanley Cup ring. Of course, you might make a mistake, and the temptation, most of the time, is to sit on your hands and do nothing. Iginla is gone. Dallas can't replace him, but he was the price to pay for the Stanley Cup and a Stanley Cup is priceless.

I remember that Sam Pollock had given a lot for Frank Mahovlich (Mickey Redmond, Guy Charron and Bill Collins). Serge Savard traded Shayne Corson for Vincent Damphousse, Stéphane Richer and Tom Chorske for Kirk Muller and Roland Melanson, Keith Acton, Mark Napier and a draft choice (Ken Hodge Jr.) for Bobby Smith. Great trades, but he also made some bad ones: Chris Chelios for Denis Savard; Kirk Muller, Matthieu Schneider and Craig Darby for Pierre Turgeon and Vladimir Malakhov; Gilbert Delorme, Greg Paslawski and Doug Wickenheiser for... Perry Turnbull. Just to name a few.

The Gomez trade might not have turned out too good, but it's not a catastrophy either. Without Gomez, the Habs would probably have been eliminated sooner in the 2010 Stanley Cup Series. Remember, we had quite a run. And McDonagh was not playing in the NHL yet. I still believe that Gomez can help the team. He had an excellent training camp and was showing some promise in the early games. Of course, he was not producing, but so were guys like Gionta, Cammalleri and Cole. His injury (a serious one, have we learned) has slowed him down, but he looked very good against the Rangers. Let's hope that it is just the beginning of a rebirth. The Canadians need his speed, experience and ability. He is still the best to carry the puck in the offensive zone. What he needs is to execute better plays once he gets closer to the net. Who knows? we might see that happening on a regular basis in the near future.

As for McDonagh, I wish him a good career with the Rangers. But I don't regret the trade one bit. The past is the past.

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Excellent breakdown. The past is the past however you can't help but wonder where we would be if we had kept McDonaugh and Higgins. We would not have had to trade for D-men. Could have acquired something else for Higgins (assuming dealt) and we would have $7.4 million in space.

The past is the past but for me at least it doesn't hide the fact that this was an extremely brutal trade.

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Excellent breakdown. The past is the past however you can't help but wonder where we would be if we had kept McDonaugh and Higgins. We would not have had to trade for D-men. Could have acquired something else for Higgins (assuming dealt) and we would have $7.4 million in space.

The past is the past but for me at least it doesn't hide the fact that this was an extremely brutal trade.

Who knows? it could have been worse.

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Excellent breakdown. The past is the past however you can't help but wonder where we would be if we had kept McDonaugh and Higgins. We would not have had to trade for D-men. Could have acquired something else for Higgins (assuming dealt) and we would have $7.4 million in space.

The past is the past but for me at least it doesn't hide the fact that this was an extremely brutal trade.

It would have been nice to wait, but Until this year with Richards, there have been no top centres in the ufa market. Teams lock these guys up. Would we have put up with two losing years?

It definitely hurt losing mcdonagh. I still can't figure that trade out, but in the end it may work out. With a cap ceiling, you can't keep all your top guys anyway. Having the ability to drop gomer to the minors or trade to a team trying to reach the floor could end up being a blessing. If we had not traded for Gomer, we might have briught someone else in and locked hin up. Now Subban, Eller, Price, and Gorges are up for raises and how do you do it?

I think you will still see the Habs trade a high end defensive prospect in the future. Why? Because that's what they have.

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It would have been nice to wait, but Until this year with Richards, there have been no top centres in the ufa market. Teams lock these guys up. Would we have put up with two losing years?

It definitely hurt losing mcdonagh. I still can't figure that trade out, but in the end it may work out. With a cap ceiling, you can't keep all your top guys anyway. Having the ability to drop gomer to the minors or trade to a team trying to reach the floor could end up being a blessing. If we had not traded for Gomer, we might have briught someone else in and locked hin up. Now Subban, Eller, Price, and Gorges are up for raises and how do you do it?

I think you will still see the Habs trade a high end defensive prospect in the future. Why? Because that's what they have.

Who cares about a top center. Gomez has put up very little point production. Would we have been better off with Antropov, Koivu, Jokinen, Fleischman, I mean there are plenty of options for a 2nd line center.

As for the future, don;t worry. There is still plenty of money to go around for these guys with current players coming off the books.

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