l<OV4L3V Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 can we not just buy Scott Gomez out already? he's worth a bag of pucks anyways..a 7 or 8.5 million dollar bag of pucks at that I think sharks bulldoze us tonight..its tough to be optimistic when the team started the preseason with a garbage record, started the regular season off marginal at best, and continues to play inconsistent throughout vital months....is anybody else wondering if this team will be in the playoff picture come the dreadful "Christmas break road trip?" because I sure as heck am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 This has got to be the best Game day thread I've ever seen. Hilarious! I would just like to point out that since the lock-out year(2005), of all the teams who were out of the playoffs as of December 1st, Only one team has ever managed to make it to the playoffs and that was the 2009-2010 Flyers...who made it in by winning the last game of the season in a Shootout against the Rangers. It's not looking good for our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 can we not just buy Scott Gomez out already? he's worth a bag of pucks anyways..a 7 or 8.5 million dollar bag of pucks at that You want to pay him his full salary the rest of the way? That's what happens when you exercise a buyout at this point in the year unless you can agree to mutual termination (and that clearly ain't happening). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 You want to pay him his full salary the rest of the way? That's what happens when you exercise a buyout at this point in the year unless you can agree to mutual termination (and that clearly ain't happening). Are you even allowed to buy him out now? i thought it was demote to the minors only because the NHL has a specific buy-out period. And even if we were to part with Gomez what next? Are we giving up prospects and top picks to bring in other high priced talent? We need a change for sure but it has to be similar cap space for similar cap space IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l<OV4L3V Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 what i dont get is that gomez was potentially moveable prior to the season since some teams hadn't hit the cap floor yet. I think sending him to the minors would be of benefit to Gomez..remind him that there are other players who have paid their dues to get to the AHL and are salivating for an NHL roster spot. 1 goal since February of last season will not cut it..and a 4th line role is virtually pointless. He's about the equivalent to Samsonov, but worse due to cap reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patience is a virtue Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I would just like to point out that since the lock-out year(2005), of all the teams who were out of the playoffs as of December 1st, Only one team has ever managed to make it to the playoffs and that was the 2009-2010 Flyers. It would be interesting to know what the point spreads between 3rd and 12th place were on Dec 1st during the seasons since the lockout. This year it is 6 points. That's what matters. The Habs are 2 points out of 8th and 6 points out of 3rd. We need to listen to Carey and chill out. There are lots of good things about this team. Last night sucked, but the 2nd and 3rd period were really the only crummy hockey I've seen them play, besides the first loss to the Pens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Are you even allowed to buy him out now? i thought it was demote to the minors only because the NHL has a specific buy-out period. And even if we were to part with Gomez what next? Are we giving up prospects and top picks to bring in other high priced talent? We need a change for sure but it has to be similar cap space for similar cap space IMO. You can buy a player out at any time, technically speaking. At this stage, it would be a 100% cap hit which is why no one does other than the $125 waivers we see from time to time (there's a minor league goalie on that today, actually). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 You want to pay him his full salary the rest of the way? That's what happens when you exercise a buyout at this point in the year unless you can agree to mutual termination (and that clearly ain't happening). If we were to wait til the end of this year, there would be 2 years left on his contract at an average of 5 million$ per year. That's 10 million$. 66% of that is 6.666 million$, split that up over 4 years gives us 1.66million$ per year for the next 4 years. I would gladly be willing to pay that amount to be rid of this horrible contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It would be interesting to know what the point spreads between 3rd and 12th place were on Dec 1st during the seasons since the lockout. This year it is 6 points. That's what matters. The Habs are 2 points out of 8th and 6 points out of 3rd. We need to listen to Carey and chill out. There are lots of good things about this team. Last night sucked, but the 2nd and 3rd period were really the only crummy hockey I've seen them play, besides the first loss to the Pens. I posted this in the fire JM thread. The parity this year is just insane Montreal is in 12th but only 8 points out of 1st in the conference and 2 points out of a playoff spot. Last year at this same time the team in 12th was Florida and they were 18 points out of 1st and 8 points out of a playoff spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 This has got to be the best Game day thread I've ever seen. Hilarious! I would just like to point out that since the lock-out year(2005), of all the teams who were out of the playoffs as of December 1st, Only one team has ever managed to make it to the playoffs and that was the 2009-2010 Flyers...who made it in by winning the last game of the season in a Shootout against the Rangers. It's not looking good for our team. Bah. I still say: 2 points out. Let the other teams worry about themselves. Like Commandant says, we had a month where we were playing .700, now we go and lose three games and the sky is falling. Patience is a virtue and JMMR are 100% right. This argument that the PP is Martin's fault confuses the forest for the trees. Yeah, Pleks on the point didn't work, but it's not as though Bobby Orr is waiting to step into that roll, is it? It's just like when fans demonized Brisebois, totally forgetting that he was the best defenceman on a horrible team. People are in effect blaming Martin for the lack of (healthy) offensive defencemen on this club. Also, nobody ever mentions that our PK is 3rd overall, our shots against per game is 3rd lowest in the NHL, and our 5-on-5 results are 9th overall. These data speak to a team that is in fact well coached, as they are compelling indicators of team play, defence, and team commitment. The PP, being more about sheer offence, requires a threshold level of sheer offensive talent from the blueline in order to run. Like I say ad nauseum, when JM has had good offensive defencemen, he has had a good power play. Last year our PP was excellent. What happened? Did JM suddenly forget how to coach? Finally: nobody should recommend firing JM unless they have a manifestly superior BILINGUAL REPLACEMENT in mind. I don't like the affirmative action approach to coaching, but that's the way it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 really? i bet not. JM has a long leash and deserves it. The PP needs a QB. If not Markov, then someone else is required. It sucked last year too until the Wiz came on board. Lacking a PP QB is indeed an excuse. The sucky PP is also an easy target as it is really the only thing on the Habs this year that sucks. I remain patiently optimistic about the season. Others may not be as hopeful as I, but I doubt that many of the posters here are feeling as reactionary as you are The PP is not the only problem we have with Martin. In the Fire Martin thread you will find posters who have written it out better than I could. It's a long list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I agree with HR29, this team is not fun to watch. E-N-T-E-R-T-A-I-N-M-E-N-T. That's what I want from my games...remember the firewagon hockey under Carbo (this is by no means indicating I want Carbo back, I thought he was a disaster), the team was exciting to watch. This team is not. Drastic moves need to be made, for years us fan have bemoaned the habs not taking risks in trades, well they did in Gomez and it failed, we move on, it shouldn't stop the team from taking more risks. That's exactly why my dad turned off the game last night. He said he was not going to watch the opposite of entertainment. He's had it up to here with JM and the mediocre suckitude. We need change. Now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's a no-win situation. I don't like JM but no, we have no better replacement waiting for the job. Which means we're stuck here. In mediocre-suckitude-ville. Which is a place I just invented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 The reason so few teams make the playoffs at this point is not because they are too far out to mathematically make it. It is because there are enough games to statistically see just how good you are. It is rare for a good team to suck for 25 games, then suddenly turn it around. It can happen, but it is rare. The worse teams in the league often have a good set of 5 or 6 games, but that doesn't mean they can keep it up. Good teams can suck for 5 or 6 games, but that doesn't mean they suck. Boston has demonstrated that the first 7 games did not represent their team's talent. Montreal has not, imo. Sure, we are not as bad as the first 8 games, but overall, we are a .500 team. Worse we are losing games we should not lose, if we are really better. Boston is not just squeezing out points, they are dominating most games they play. In general, Price needs to be our best player to put points on the board. Markov coming back may or may not help, but it isn't going to make us a .750 team for the next 55 games. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I really think the PP needs two and not just one good point man to succeed. Markov and Souray - success. Markov and Streit - success Markov and Tanguay/Hamrlik - didn't work Markov and Schneider - success. Markov and whoever was supposed to start the 09/10 season - not enough time to judge. Bergeron and Hamrlik - some success but was still in the 15th-20th range in the NHL. Markov and Bergeron - top PP in the league (final season stats 2nd). Subban and Hamrlik - didn't work Subban and Wisniewski - success Subban and Weber/Diaz/Plekanec - not working. Subban and Markov - lets see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I really think the PP needs two and not just one good point man to succeed. Markov and Souray - success. Markov and Streit - success Markov and Tanguay/Hamrlik - didn't work Markov and Schneider - success. Markov and whoever was supposed to start the 10/11 season - not enough time to judge. Bergeron and Hamrlik - some success but was still in the 15th-20th range in the NHL. Markov and Bergeron - top PP in the league (final season stats 2nd). Subban and Hamrlik - didn't work Subban and Wisniewski - success Subban and Weber/Diaz/Plekanec - not working. Subban and Markov - lets see it. Bingo. Don't forget the possibility of Campoli being a helpful ingredient in that mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Bingo. Don't forget the possibility of Campoli being a helpful ingredient in that mix. I think the issue there is that Campoli is not a shooter is he? It will mean 2 puck distributors. Emelin looks like he has a pretty hard shot I wonder if he'll ever be given a shot on the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Campoli is a real mystery. I'll defer to Gauthier's brain-trust and assume that, since they brought him in to replace Wiz, they thought he could keep the PP afloat. But yeah, apparently he is notorious for missing the net with his shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 At this point in the season I'd rather seen Weber on the PP than Subban. Don't get me wrong, Subban was great last year. Weber has 3 PP goals, Subban has none, any way you do the math Weber is better on the point thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's a no-win situation. I don't like JM but no, we have no better replacement waiting for the job. Which means we're stuck here. In mediocre-suckitude-ville. Which is a place I just invented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 That was his knock in Ottawa and the Islanders but he did pretty good on the PP I sort of remember with his stint in Chicago. Again though he was the distributor. Second question. if he is in then does that mean Diaz, Weber and Spacek are out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Campoli is more a 2nd pair PP guy. he moves the puck pretty well, more a set up guy. He can get the puck to the net pretty wel but wouldn't be able to beat a goalie cleanly. Players would have to deflect or pound in rebounds on his shot. Just my opinion after watching him play the last few years. As posters mentioned, the team needs someone with a bomb from the point that actually can score or get through. The problem with Subban, Weber, Diaz and others is 5 on 5 or the PP they don't get their shots through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 If we were to wait til the end of this year, there would be 2 years left on his contract at an average of 5 million$ per year. That's 10 million$. 66% of that is 6.666 million$, split that up over 4 years gives us 1.66million$ per year for the next 4 years. I would gladly be willing to pay that amount to be rid of this horrible contract. If that's how the buyout was actually calculated in this instance, I'd be all for it. However, it's not as that only applies when cap hit = salary. His actual cap hit cost, if bought out after this year, would be the following: 12-13: $3,523,810 13-14: $4,523,810 15-16: $1,666,667 16-17: $1,666,667 Those first two years are a real deterrent if you're trying to re-allocate his money towards adding other players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Finally: nobody should recommend firing JM unless they have a manifestly superior BILINGUAL REPLACEMENT in mind. I don't like the affirmative action approach to coaching, but that's the way it is now. If I had to hazard a guess as to who the replacement would be for the rest of the year (as more options present themselves after), it'd be Clement Jodoin in Hamilton. I shudder at that thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Campoli is more a 2nd pair PP guy. he moves the puck pretty well, more a set up guy. He can get the puck to the net pretty wel but wouldn't be able to beat a goalie cleanly. Players would have to deflect or pound in rebounds on his shot. Just my opinion after watching him play the last few years. As posters mentioned, the team needs someone with a bomb from the point that actually can score or get through. The problem with Subban, Weber, Diaz and others is 5 on 5 or the PP they don't get their shots through. I'd like t see the team try to get a guy like beauchemin. Ducks need to dump salary and he is a good vet capable of 20 mins a guy, big shot, an expiring contract and tough as nails. Big cap hit so it would require sometingh creative but he could be a very short term fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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