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Canadiens vs Sharks: Dec 1st (A very sarcastic GDT)

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What is more indicative of coaching: the decision to use Moen as 5th shooter (!) in the SO, or the fact that the team battled incredibly hard all night long against a powerful team in the second game of a back-to-backer in which all the 'fan experts' predicted they'd get blown out, and only lost in the shootout?

This exemplifies what I've been saying, I think. The Martin haters generally miss the forest for the trees. The 'forest' is a team that is, on the whole, playing a strong team game, with individuals working hard, buying in and sacrificing for the whole and playing an effective system, and remaining in a position to make the playoffs despite key injuries - while being let down on the PP for reasons mainly having to do with the lack of qualified defencemen to run it. The 'trees' is specific decisions about player X being used at some specific moment in game Y, and hoarding up memories of these supposed 'mistakes'...and often without considering the wider context of those decisions to boot (e.g., whether their preferred player had just finished a shift, that sort of thing).

The fact is, this was a strong bounce-back game that yielded a much-needed point against powerful opposition under arduous circumstances.

Last night we were outshot and outplayed. We had moments of solid play, but IMO our goals seemed (particularly the first one) to be totally against the run of play. Our vaunted defensive game was a joke as the Sharks played shinny in our end for long stretches. This was less a bounce-back game than it was a case of our scorers getting a little luck (finally). The decision to use Moen in the shootout smacked of desperation, particularly considering the options on the bench. I will reiterate (for the last time) that I'm not a Martin-hater, I only feel like his schtick here is done and that he's lost the ability to adapt and create with this crew.

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When was Eller given this time with top players?

When has he got the PP minutes ?

Has he even played one game over 18 minutes this year?

Eller needs a chance to do more that I agree, I am not sure of the exact way to do it but I would agree he needs to be thrown out there for an extra shift or two whenever possible.

Eller has played with Kosty, Gomez, Gionta and I think a few of the other talented players for most of the season. I don't think he has had much 4th line time at all.

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I had a dream last night during the game, that Martin will be coaching the Habs until at least the end of the season.

Then again, I also have dreams I'm playing for the Habs. :rofl:

In retrospect, the moves made in the last 5 years are/were brutal. Yet can't live in the past. The players are trying their best and it's no ones fault for the under .500 stat.

This type of situation is good for the team; they have to find their identity now.

Sigh, can't believe we didn't keep the SK-Grabs-AK line. It's a shame really, they only played together for a few games. And when players challenge the status quo like Grabs did, sometimes it's good to listen to them.

Forever a non-fan of "the system". Let the kids play.

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This team is 10-16. Thank God for the loser point. Commandant can look up how many wins Martin has, and call cliches BS until the cows come home. And then offer up his own BS cliche about forgetting how to coach. I never once called for the coach to be fired, but you defenders of him seem to be more fixated on continuing the defense. Coaches are hired to be fired, we all know it. Martin is lucky he wasn't already fired, that bizarre Pearn situation saved his ass. I maintain that he get's a chance with a healthy Markov, and he's earned that right. But I also have no problem with what Colin says about schtick.

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Sigh, can't believe we didn't keep the SK-Grabs-AK line. It's a shame really, they only played together for a few games. And when players challenge the status quo like Grabs did, sometimes it's good to listen to them.

A good reason could be that they freakin' hate each others at a point where they get into fights on the ice.

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I'm not blaming Martin yet. If the team can get over some of these injuries, and play as a full team, I will critique then. You guys say that this team is fast and needs to be a forecheck team. I disagree. They don't have the size to cycle the puck. Maybe one line can, but overall, this team is a transition team, and their transition game is very good. PP is terrible, but again they have no second line centre or number one defenseman. If the team still sucks at the end of the year, the head I will be calling for is Gauthier's.

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What is more indicative of coaching: the decision to use Moen as 5th shooter (!) in the SO, or the fact that the team battled incredibly hard all night long against a powerful team in the second game of a back-to-backer in which all the 'fan experts' predicted they'd get blown out, and only lost in the shootout?

This exemplifies what I've been saying, I think. The Martin haters generally miss the forest for the trees. The 'forest' is a team that is, on the whole, playing a strong team game, with individuals working hard, buying in and sacrificing for the whole and playing an effective system, and remaining in a position to make the playoffs despite key injuries - while being let down on the PP for reasons mainly having to do with the lack of qualified defencemen to run it. The 'trees' is specific decisions about player X being used at some specific moment in game Y, and hoarding up memories of these supposed 'mistakes'...and often without considering the wider context of those decisions to boot (e.g., whether their preferred player had just finished a shift, that sort of thing).

The fact is, this was a strong bounce-back game that yielded a much-needed point against powerful opposition under arduous circumstances.

Is see a coach who just coached his time to their third straight loss. The forest i see is no playoffs, the trees, is the trees is the "nice strong bounce back game".

I agree with CC. Here is a guy with 600 NHL wins.

A guy whose system has worked with this same group for 2 years.

Do we really believe he forgot how to coach hockey overnight? Or that the system is no longer suited to a group that is essentially the same group that it worked so well for?

Those arguments are extremely hard to make.

So we turn to the ridiculous cliche that he's "lost the room.".

You watch a game like last night and its pretty clear the team is still working hard for this staff.

I see a guy who has lost 559 games and is looking to coaching the habs out of the playoffs.

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Agreed completely. With 5 of your top 9 forwards under 6'0 you can not possibly expect to be a forechecking team. Counter attack is the type of offence the team is built for and counter attack comes out of strong defence.

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Last night we were outshot and outplayed. We had moments of solid play, but IMO our goals seemed (particularly the first one) to be totally against the run of play. Our vaunted defensive game was a joke as the Sharks played shinny in our end for long stretches. This was less a bounce-back game than it was a case of our scorers getting a little luck (finally). The decision to use Moen in the shootout smacked of desperation, particularly considering the options on the bench. I will reiterate (for the last time) that I'm not a Martin-hater, I only feel like his schtick here is done and that he's lost the ability to adapt and create with this crew.

Hey, maybe he did ask for AK46, but because of the noise in the building, the habs thought he said Moen. Hell, he may have even asked for Darche and Moen may have said, "screw that - I'll take the shot - even I'm a better choice then Darche" :crazy:

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A good reason could be that they freakin' hate each others at a point where they get into fights on the ice.

Well were they really fighting with each other when they were all on the Habs? The Toronto incident came after the fact that Grabo got traded.

Heh, The avatar is pretty funny. ^_^ Go Team Jacob!

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Guys, we lost the last one, but at least the show was good, very good indeed. I liked our intensity and, for once, some our players -- in particular Cammalleri -- had a good game.

But one of the best thing I remember from the game is the play of Eller and Leblanc. Boy! those two were playing well. In fact, I believe that Leblanc looked so good that I would like to keep him in the line up a few more games to see if he doesn't deserve to remain with the big club. Leblanc will become an excellent hockey player.

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Guys, we lost the last one, but at least the show was good, very good indeed. I liked our intensity and, for once, some our players -- in particular Cammalleri -- had a good game.

But one of the best thing I remember from the game is the play of Eller and Leblanc. Boy! those two were playing well. In fact, I believe that Leblanc looked so good that I would like to keep him in the line up a few more games to see if he doesn't deserve to remain with the big club. Leblanc will become an excellent hockey player.

Its funny you say that.

The games he backchecks hard he ends up scoring or at least playing well and getting more chances.

When he comes back hard and deep turnovers happen and he can get moving through the neutral zone with speed.

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I agree with CC. Here is a guy with 600 NHL wins.

A guy whose system has worked with this same group for 2 years.

Do we really believe he forgot how to coach hockey overnight? Or that the system is no longer suited to a group that is essentially the same group that it worked so well for?

Those arguments are extremely hard to make.

So we turn to the ridiculous cliche that he's "lost the room.".

You watch a game like last night and its pretty clear the team is still working hard for this staff.

I can't speak for anyone else, I can only speak for myself, but what I hate about the JM coaching style is the passive aggressive nature of the way his teams play. Instead of trying to build on a lead, they sit back way too often and let the other team come at them. I heard on the radio this morning that apparently as soon as the Habs scored their 3rd goal in teh 3rd period, they sat back. Forwards would move the puck past the red line and dump it in and then go change lines. Instead of going for that extra goal, they sit back, and too often it comes back to bite them in the ass.

Someone said in another thread that the Habs were 3rd in the league on the PK and in Shots allowed. Yes, that is a very good thing, however, the Habs need to be good on the PK and in shots allowed cause they don't score any goals. Maybe if we had that Killer instinct, we wouldn't have lost the games where we had 1 and 2 goal leads (against Pittsburgh and S-J)...

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Good game for Habs, quick and entertaining, loved it.

Classy move by coachs to use Moan in shootout, he has earned it for sure.

I guess Martin has a fondness for Leblanc, 14+ minutes of ice and on with 40 some seconds left in games, great to see, i think the kid looked great with Eller.

I must give credit to Cammalleri and Subban for showing up and playing well, really helps when these 2 play well and chip in.

Weber is weakest of all the d-men in own zone, not sure what has happened to him but will be in pressbox very soon, but still just a young d-man.

PP showed some signs of life, which was also a relief.

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I can't speak for anyone else, I can only speak for myself, but what I hate about the JM coaching style is the passive aggressive nature of the way his teams play. Instead of trying to build on a lead, they sit back way too often and let the other team come at them. I heard on the radio this morning that apparently as soon as the Habs scored their 3rd goal in teh 3rd period, they sat back. Forwards would move the puck past the red line and dump it in and then go change lines. Instead of going for that extra goal, they sit back, and too often it comes back to bite them in the ass.

Someone said in another thread that the Habs were 3rd in the league on the PK and in Shots allowed. Yes, that is a very good thing, however, the Habs need to be good on the PK and in shots allowed cause they don't score any goals. Maybe if we had that Killer instinct, we wouldn't have lost the games where we had 1 and 2 goal leads (against Pittsburgh and S-J)...

The lack of goals scored is seriously compounded by PP impotence. Like I say, so much comes back to the ineffectual power-play, it's not even funny. In every other respect this team is doing quite well.

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I HATE our "dump and change" (as I've stated in several threads)

Hockey's a puck possession game, and why do we have to continually give up that possession just because we're changing guys? Then the "fresh" guys have to try to get the puck BACK (that we've just given up) wasting time and energy........................

:wall:

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Good game for Habs, quick and entertaining, loved it.

Classy move by coachs to use Moan in shootout, he has earned it for sure.

I guess Martin has a fondness for Leblanc, 14+ minutes of ice and on with 40 some seconds left in games, great to see, i think the kid looked great with Eller.

I must give credit to Cammalleri and Subban for showing up and playing well, really helps when these 2 play well and chip in.

Weber is weakest of all the d-men in own zone, not sure what has happened to him but will be in pressbox very soon, but still just a young d-man.

PP showed some signs of life, which was also a relief.

The choice to use Kostitsyn in the shootout instead of Moen MIGHT have turned a one point game into a win.

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Eller has played with Kosty, Gomez, Gionta and I think a few of the other talented players for most of the season. I don't think he has had much 4th line time at all.

Eller has shown that he has talent. As far as I'm concerned his production is being limited by JM.

He averages more ice time than only blunden, enquist, palushaj, noko, darche (somehow), st.denis, leblanc, and campoli (injury shortened game)

His PP average per game is 34 seconds.

That's third unit pp time and bottom 3rd line TOI

Although he does get some minutes with top players how can he be expected to put up consistent #'s.

Edited by amhabs84

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Eller has shown that he has talent.  As far as I'm concerned his production is being limited by JM.

He averages more ice time than only blunden, enquist, palushaj, noko, darche (somehow), st.denis, leblanc, and campoli (injury shortened game)

His PP average per game is 34 seconds.

That's third unit pp time and bottom 3rd line TOI

Although he does get some minutes with top players how can he be expected to put up consistent #'s.

Which member of the top 6 should have his ice time reduced and handed to Eller?

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Which member of the top 6 should have his ice time reduced and handed to Eller?

I guess I'm beating a dead horse but with kostitsyn and gomez having been out for extended periods so far this season, either eller or desharnais should have been playing the wing in order to utilize the talent.

Also with those two injuries and pleks on the point on the pp, eller should have been getting his opportunity.

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Ok, you want to move one of eller/dd to wing so they both play in the top 6. Again i ask:

Cammalleri

Cole

Gionta

Pacioretty (replaced by Akost during the suspension)

Which winger should be pulled out of the top 6 so desharnais and eller can both be a part of it?

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My point being eller deserves a fair shake. Which I don't believe he is getting. The offense isn't there and he has shown flashes of pure talent in his limited role.

whether it be desharnias, gionta, cammi, cole, kostitsyn it doesn't matter he deserves a shot.

i guess we had one line firing last night, but how long will it last. Martin will break that up in no time, and eller will still be waiting for a chance.

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My point being eller deserves a fair shake. Which I don't believe he is getting.  The offense isn't there and he has shown flashes of pure talent in his limited role.

whether it be desharnias, gionta, cammi, cole, kostitsyn it doesn't matter he deserves a shot.

i guess we had one line firing last night, but how long will it last.  Martin will break that up in no time,  and eller will still be waiting for a chance.

When the lineup is healthy... he plays with Kostitsyn and they generally play well together.  Is that not enough offensive talent on his line to "give him a chance"?

I like the kid.  He's got a ton of potential, but he's not producing enough right now to justify being more than a third liner right now.

He's 22 years old. Habs fans seem to think that every kid who doesn't get 20 minutes of ice time every game is being punished and/or not given a chance. Sometimes you have to earn your ice time and sometimes taking things slowly with the kids works.

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The Habs (and JM) can't win with their fans. If they give the kid tons of ice and he struggles, which he likely would eventually , then they 'ruined' him by throwing him into the fire too soon. If they bring the kid along gradually (i.e., properly, in my opinion) they get accused of stifling his development. Commandant, I like your pointed question about who he should replace, and the inability to answer it nicely captures the shell game that fans all too often play as back-seat drivers. That Eller generally looks good should be taken as an indicator that he is developing correctly, not that he is being mishandled.

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Eller is right where he belongs. Imo, DD is nothing special. He is comparable to Eller and the fact that he is one of our top two centers says more about our lack of depth then his talent.

If I could wave a magic want, I replace DD and Gomez with Malkin. Done. :)

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