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Fire Jacques Martin


C-Love

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I think this has gone on long enough. This team is not the most talented in the league but they are a hell of a lot better than this. If is very obvious that they are not playing for this coach, Cammy and Plexs had as many shots on goal as I did last night. I realize that you need to put some onus on the players, but a change is needed and it will happen this year, but the only question is, will it happen too late for us to make a push for the playoffs?

I am saddened by the realization that this team will only hire francophone coaches but it is the reality so when you start talking replacements it is a pretty short list. In my eyes the obvious choices would be Marc Crawford or Bob Hartley. I would love to see Crawford coaching this team by the start of the week.

I would be shocked to see Martin leave California a Canadien.

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I'd love to have Carlyle as a coach. I love his coaching methods and type of hockey he plays. Can't look at this season as a measuring stick for him because his GM has been horrific and the team stopped listening. He's the exact type of coach I'd love to see here.

Oh wait, he's anglo.

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When a team sits back and waits for a player to return from injury then you know that there is a lack of confidence amongst the players.

Our Power Play is horrific, our intensity is completely lacking, our consistency is non-existent and there are too many players who are struggling.

Gauthier is not the type of GM to make drastic changes but it is seriously time to drop the hammer with something big. Whether that is a coaching change or a player change remains to be seen but something has to be done.

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Things the Habs fanbase blames on Martin

Global Warming

The 2008 Financial Crisis/Recession

Terrorism

War

Famine

Catastrophic Disease

Winter

Katrina

Did I miss anything?

Mayan End of Days prediction.......

Rosicrucian philosophy.

Tsunami

And of course Mass boredom although I think that one may be a valid argument

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An enormous HELL NO from me regarding Crawford. Carlyle would be interesting but isn't qualified for the job.

The only one that I can think of to replace Martin would be a massive gamble. A choice that would either lead to a cup or absolute disaster and despair - Patrick Roy.

I do agree though that Martin and his old school ways need to go.

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Things the Habs fanbase blames on Martin

Global Warming

The 2008 Financial Crisis/Recession

Terrorism

War

Famine

Catastrophic Disease

Winter

Katrina

Did I miss anything?

Hmm ok I'll bite Commandant, I can assume from your posts that you are in the 'it is not JMs fault' camp, and that is respectable, I just cannot see your line of thinking on this. Is his message not getting across? What is his message? They definitely follow his defensive message, but I for the life of me cannot discern a offensive game plan besides the old shoot from everywheres and see what happens.

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Things the Habs fanbase blames on Martin

Global Warming

The 2008 Financial Crisis/Recession

Terrorism

War

Famine

Catastrophic Disease

Winter

Katrina

Did I miss anything?

I think all coaches on every team take undue heat and Martin is no exception.

There are legitimate concerns also. From Martin's not using Cole on the PP (until he was questioned by that reporter), excessive use of Darche (both on the PP and during the final minute of games where we are trailing), ignoring a vets routine mistakes while benching a rookie for the same mistake, bizarre use of Eller (especially his ice time).

There are legitimate reasons why people want Martin gone.

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All our ills are not JMs fault, but some of them are. Most coaches seem to have a shelf life with their players and it is starting to look like JM might be reaching his. I have no idea who they can hire and his job might be safe because they don't know who to hire instead.

How many times has he stated in the post game interview that our PP killed us. Well what is he doing to fix it? How long does he get?

It is kind of ironic that the winning coach was fired last night.

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An enormous HELL NO from me regarding Crawford. Carlyle would be interesting but isn't qualified for the job.

The only one that I can think of to replace Martin would be a massive gamble. A choice that would either lead to a cup or absolute disaster and despair - Patrick Roy.

I do agree though that Martin and his old school ways need to go.

Please don;t tell me Carlyle does not qualify because he is not french. I am so fed up of that argument.

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Please don;t tell me Carlyle does not qualify because he is not french.  I am so fed up of that argument.

i dont agree with the policy but until management changes it, its the reality and has been for 40 years if not more.

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i dont agree with the policy but until management changes it, its the reality and has been for 40 years if not more.

I am not implying that an Anglo coach is better but what does this tell you? Bowman was the last great coach of a dynasty. Since then we have had moderate success....sure it is a telling sign of the times but the organization for 40 years has settled for coaches based on language instead of taking the best available....maybe it's time for them to realize this policy is wrong.

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I reiterate from another thread: Martin isn't learning from his mistakes, re: PP. And since special teams are critical to success, the argument can be made that he's failing in his job. Sticking with something that isn't working is (literally) insanity.

Martin seems to have lost the ability to be creative in any respect, consistently under-plays guys who are either proven scorers (Cole) or had breakout stretches (Eller) only to be quasi-benched so far this season.

He seems to have no answer to our offensive torpor, and his style, while strong defensively, leads to a stifling of any creativity in the offensive zone. He sticks for inordinately long periods with players who are severely under-talented (Darche) or who slump excessively (Deshharnais) and yet is willing to shift around all his other players so no one can develop any chemistry.

He's known to be a terrible communicator - so bad that players leaving Montreal have offered stories of virtually zero feedback - and it's hard to improve one's game if you don't get that kind of coaching.

Martin is a one-trick pony whose system is reasonable enough to always be "in the mix" but whose teams will never take that last step because they can't step out of the box.

Finally, a guy like this has a shelf-life; and the Habs, despite a brief blip when Pearn was toasted, have been semi-flat and half-listless most of the season. There's little passion here, and I suggest that our talent level is actually higher than 8th in the East, quite considerably.

He was a great choice when he was brought in, and he'll be a great coach somewhere else as well, but I think his ability to take this team any further must surely be nearing its conclusion. We need someone who can take advantage of our offensive skills (which are quite a bit better than we've shown).

Cucumber has repeatedly stated he believes the problem to be the PP (and it is a hefty chunk of the problem), and indicates a guy like Markov as the answer. Be that as it may, it should be blatantly obvious to anyone... well... conscious that Plex is not the answer, and is in fact playing out of position on the PP. He needs to be down low and a guy like Subban - or even Diaz or Weber or Gorges - needs to try that point spot for more than one game. Martin needs a new experiment that lasts quite a few games. Hell, Markov may not be the answer right now anyhow; his timing will be off, his legs won't be fully there.

I *like* JM, for the record. I believe, however, he's run his course in Montreal. Listen to Michael Jackson, PG, it's time to make that change. (You know it! Whooo! Sho-mo!)

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You are complaining about plek on the point of the PP after a game with 7 PPs where he played 0 on the point.

You are complaining about Darche on the PP when the team is in the midst of an 0 for 23 slump where hes played exactly 2 shifts on the PP. One of those shifts was because Cole had some sort of equipment issue and couldnt go out there. The second was in the very last PP last night when the team was 0 for 6 and looked awful. I think he was sending a message there.

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its pretty night and day to me that Martin's system is not working for the habs; its simply ineffictive. There are still 60 some games remaining. Montreal is a hockey market that doesn't put up with poor play, and by the way games are being played..the body language on the bench is obviously non-existent. To be quite honest, I think along with the firing of Martin, some trades and acquisitions wouldn't be a bad idea. The person who really hasn't faced any criticism is Gionta. I'm beginning to question his leadership and ability to get this team going. As much as I didn't like him..Saku Koivu was a leader. It seems like Gionta has been too quiet and maybe the 'C' isn't the proper role for him. A player like Jarome Iginla would be so beneficial for us, but I'm not sure if we have the right assets to acquire him.

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You are complaining about plek on the point of the PP after a game with 7 PPs where he played 0 on the point.

You are complaining about Darche on the PP when the team is in the midst of an 0 for 23 slump where hes played exactly 2 shifts on the PP. One of those shifts was because Cole had some sort of equipment issue and couldnt go out there. The second was in the very last PP last night when the team was 0 for 6 and looked awful. I think he was sending a message there.

You're right. However, wouldn't you have sent young Leblanc out there? At least once of those 6 PPs? Our top prospect, supposedly one of the main building blocks of the future, they drafted him in Montréal and made a big thing he was French canadien. This is a very lowkey backdoor entrance for the bluechip prospect. He played his first game the farthest away possible from Montréal, on the 4th line, no shift on 6PPs. wow

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What did Leblanc do last night to earn P time?

He's not NHL ready, and is only with the team because of injuries and suspensions. He needs more AHL time, not to be a PP solution of a struggling team. He'll get 3 gms and be sent back to Hamilton.

Who cares how high he was drafted or if hes french? He needs proper development. Look no farther than Latendresse and Pacioretty to see what that means.

I just find it ridiculous that after every two or three game losing streak we talk about firing the coach.

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What did Leblanc do last night to earn P time?

He's not NHL ready, and is only with the team because of injuries and suspensions. He needs more AHL time, not to be a PP solution of a struggling team. He'll get 3 gms and be sent back to Hamilton.

Who cares how high he was drafted or if hes french? He needs proper development. Look no farther than Latendresse and Pacioretty to see what that means.

I just find it ridiculous that after every two or three game losing streak we talk about firing the coach.

I think people are talking about it because we are close to the basement of the east. I think they are fed up with how we lose, even how we win (often barely). I think they are sick of seeing no progress in the PP. I think they are concerned that most of our so called top guys are having brutal seasons. Even after we won, many still wanted JM gone.

If JM has spent the last two months practicing with Pleks at the point, we can hardly expect one game to fix it. I would give them time to adjust. I would criticize JM for waiting this long to make the change. It was obvious a month ago.

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I agree that perhaps, JM has run his course, but given our limitations on hiring who is a viable replacement, without recycling someone. Patrick Roy is the only one I can think of?

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This 0-3 slump is disconcerting, because our early season skid put us in a position where we could not afford too many further slumps. I'll say what I said early in the season, though: it's not about wins and losses, it's about where you are in the standings. Right now, we are two, count 'em two, points out of 8th place. So we remain in a perfectly viable position to make the playoffs and firing Martin would be premature.

Obviously, if you think JM is a bumbling boob who is personally responsible for, say, the bad power-play - which, incidentally, is THE major reason we are not comfortably in a playoff spot - then my logic makes no sense. But in my view, which I have maintained all season long, this team just doesn't have the horses to run a consistently strong power play.

That's because a PP is controlled from the blueline, and in the absence of Markov and Wiz (and to a much lesser degree Hamrlik), we lack the defencemen to make it happen. Weber is erratic at best. Subban hasn't put it all together yet. Gorges is not an offensive defenceman. The rest are either Gill or at-best-middling rookies. This is not rocket science.

Our PP sucked last year when Markov went down and before we got Wiz. Then we acuqired Wiz and it became very good again. The independent variable could not be more obvious. It's called talent.

So: the team struggles mainly because the PP struggles. The PP struggles because our blueline has ZERO players who can run a PP. Martin is NOT the main factor in all of this.

Of course there are other, secondary problems. Cammalleri's struggles over this season and last year are becoming a grave concern. That Gio is -6 with poor offensive numbers is unsettling. These guys are supposed to be top-6 forwards - in Cammy's case, an elite top-3 forward - and they are out to lunch. One possibility is that they've quit on Martin. But since they are the only two, as far as I can see, who are playing well below potential, there is little evidence of a wider dressing room revolt. I dunno about you, but I don't think we should fire a coach because Cammy and Gio say so.

Another possibility is that Gio is simply slumping and that Cammy is playing hurt.

A third possibility is that these guys feast offensively on the momentum they get from scoring on the PP. So take the PP out of the equation and their overall offence begins to dry up.

Again: most of this stuff is not on JM.

Now, if the team falls 5-6 points back of 8th place, then - just as I said earlier in the year - I favour a firing, simply because desperate times call for desperate measures and ya gotta do something. Given that times are not desperate yet, and that there remains surprising little evidence that JM is the problem, AND that there are no obviously superior bilingual replacements, I do not think he should be fired.

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You are complaining about plek on the point of the PP after a game with 7 PPs where he played 0 on the point.

You are complaining about Darche on the PP when the team is in the midst of an 0 for 23 slump where hes played exactly 2 shifts on the PP. One of those shifts was because Cole had some sort of equipment issue and couldnt go out there. The second was in the very last PP last night when the team was 0 for 6 and looked awful. I think he was sending a message there.

Fair bones. The one game I didn't see (farewell party to a cop going to the Sudan for a year) and Martin FINALLY does something. Once is a freak occurrence. Twice is a coincidence. I'll start thinking a little more favourably about this once it his a minimum of three times.

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This 0-3 slump is disconcerting, because our early season skid put us in a position where we could not afford too many further slumps. I'll say what I said early in the season, though: it's not about wins and losses, it's about where you are in the standings. Right now, we are two, count 'em two, points out of 8th place. So we remain in a perfectly viable position to make the playoffs and firing Martin would be premature.

Obviously, if you think JM is a bumbling boob who is personally responsible for, say, the bad power-play - which, incidentally, is THE major reason we are not comfortably in a playoff spot - then my logic makes no sense. But in my view, which I have maintained all season long, this team just doesn't have the horses to run a consistently strong power play.

That's because a PP is controlled from the blueline, and in the absence of Markov and Wiz (and to a much lesser degree Hamrlik), we lack the defencemen to make it happen. Weber is erratic at best. Subban hasn't put it all together yet. Gorges is not an offensive defenceman. The rest are either Gill or at-best-middling rookies. This is not rocket science.

Our PP sucked last year when Markov went down and before we got Wiz. Then we acuqired Wiz and it became very good again. The independent variable could not be more obvious. It's called talent.

So: the team struggles mainly because the PP struggles. The PP struggles because our blueline has ZERO players who can run a PP. Martin is NOT the main factor in all of this.

Again: most of this stuff is not on JM.

But here's where I think your logic is flawed: you agree that the PP is struggling, yet JM has kept at the same inept plot since the season's inception. If he's going to experiment, then why not throw Subban out there and let him be the one who learns on the job, rather than Plex who is a) far more useful down low, and b) not a real defender? While there's no way of knowing, I have to believe that our PP might have had a little more success with Subban manning the first PP and Plex down low. Subbinator learns on the job, and by now he may even be a serviceable replacement for Markov or Wiz. Not giving him the first PP chances only lengthens the time where he'll find his abilities. (And you can sub in Diaz, Weber, or whomever you want for Subban.)

I'm sorry (how Canadian of me!) but I think it's absolutely down to Martin for these decisions. You rightfully point out the PP as a major culprit in the Habs game, yet you seem to give him a pass for his PP which he's stuck with unendingly (yes, yes, I know... last night). Is there a reason he didn't give Subban a real shot? Because he doesn't always pick the right play or tends to hit defenders or the wall with his shot? How's he going to get better unless he's given a true go at the first PP with the highest calibre players?

Again, JM has this team playing a great team defence, and good on him. But I still believe he's essentially run his course and the guys need a new face in their respective faces. There've been too many lame-duck decisions for my liking - the man becomes stubborn once he knows his team and is slow to adapt to anything out of the box - like, for instance, the emergence of Eller (who he keeps pushing down).

I won't ask you to change your opinion, because I can see the argument for keeping JM here. I just don't want to see these endless arguments defending moves that are, quite frankly, inexplicable.

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I really do not think JM will be fired anytime soon for a couple of reasons.

1. The parity this year is just insane Montreal is in 12th but only 8 points out of 1st in the conference and 2 points out of a playoff spot. Last year at this same time the team in 12th was Florida and they were 18 points out of 1st and 8 points out of a playoff spot.

2. The injuries he has faced, I believe JM will get a real shot to see what he can do with a mostly healthy de core.

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This 0-3 slump is disconcerting, because our early season skid put us in a position where we could not afford too many further slumps. I'll say what I said early in the season, though: it's not about wins and losses, it's about where you are in the standings. Right now, we are two, count 'em two, points out of 8th place. So we remain in a perfectly viable position to make the playoffs and firing Martin would be premature.

Obviously, if you think JM is a bumbling boob who is personally responsible for, say, the bad power-play - which, incidentally, is THE major reason we are not comfortably in a playoff spot - then my logic makes no sense. But in my view, which I have maintained all season long, this team just doesn't have the horses to run a consistently strong power play.

That's because a PP is controlled from the blueline, and in the absence of Markov and Wiz (and to a much lesser degree Hamrlik), we lack the defencemen to make it happen. Weber is erratic at best. Subban hasn't put it all together yet. Gorges is not an offensive defenceman. The rest are either Gill or at-best-middling rookies. This is not rocket science.

Our PP sucked last year when Markov went down and before we got Wiz. Then we acuqired Wiz and it became very good again. The independent variable could not be more obvious. It's called talent.

So: the team struggles mainly because the PP struggles. The PP struggles because our blueline has ZERO players who can run a PP. Martin is NOT the main factor in all of this.

Of course there are other, secondary problems. Cammalleri's struggles over this season and last year are becoming a grave concern. That Gio is -6 with poor offensive numbers is unsettling. These guys are supposed to be top-6 forwards - in Cammy's case, an elite top-3 forward - and they are out to lunch. One possibility is that they've quit on Martin. But since they are the only two, as far as I can see, who are playing well below potential, there is little evidence of a wider dressing room revolt. I dunno about you, but I don't think we should fire a coach because Cammy and Gio say so.

Another possibility is that Gio is simply slumping and that Cammy is playing hurt.

A third possibility is that these guys feast offensively on the momentum they get from scoring on the PP. So take the PP out of the equation and their overall offence begins to dry up.

Again: most of this stuff is not on JM.

Now, if the team falls 5-6 points back of 8th place, then - just as I said earlier in the year - I favour a firing, simply because desperate times call for desperate measures and ya gotta do something. Given that times are not desperate yet, and that there remains surprising little evidence that JM is the problem, AND that there are no obviously superior bilingual replacements, I do not think he should be fired.

This team doesn't have the horses is not a valid argument for me at least. We have finished among the top of the league in PP for what...the past 5 seasons? We have guys like Gomez and Cammalleri who made a living off the points they obtained from the PP and yet this year all is down the toilet.

The fact that this teams success is indicative only based on the effectiveness of a PP (something Martin apparently does not handle anyway) to me at least says that Martin is the one to blame. Our 5 on 5 play is horrendous, we cannot score and Martin insists on using the same elements even though they do not work.

I think we have the horses and team to compete we just lack a system whether it be from Martin or another coach that compliments the players instead of a system which demands players conform to it.

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