Fire Jacques Martin

[Trizzak]

You're right. However, wouldn't you have sent young Leblanc out there? At least once of those 6 PPs? Our top prospect, supposedly one of the main building blocks of the future, they drafted him in Montréal and made a big thing he was French canadien. This is a very lowkey backdoor entrance for the bluechip prospect. He played his first game the farthest away possible from Montréal, on the 4th line, no shift on 6PPs. wow

No.

God, no.

Leblanc doesn't have the offensive capability yet (and may never have it, by the way) to be worthwhile on the powerplay. He was called up for a taste of the NHL. Plekanec got the same thing. Higgins, Lapierre, Weber...

Rolling out the red carpet for a prospect of his calibre is a terrible idea.

And as for the Habs making a big deal that he was French Canadian... the team probably didn't make a big deal about it. Everyone else did.

[Commandant]

The team played 700 hockey for over a month after a slow start. Then we lose 3 in a row, one of them in OT; are 2 pts out of 8th and missing our best player and we are once again discussing firing a coach.

Madness never ends in Montreal

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Well, I said we don't have the horses to run a good power play, not that we're a horrible team per se.

It has been the same story year after year after year: in the absence of Markov, our PP goes belly-up. Historically, management has then gone out and acquired a defenceman who can run a PP. Bergeron; Schneider; Wisniewski. And the result, generally, has been a good PP. The evidence is overwhelming that talent is the key variable there: lose PP quarterback, the PP suffers; replace him with a competent substitute, the PP recovers.

This season, management went out and got Campoli to tide us over until Markov returned. Unfortunately Campoli immediately went down with a serious injury. With no further moves being made in terms of on-ice personnel, we have been left with a predictably dismal PP. The equation goes like this: lose PP quarterback; fail to replace him; the PP suffers. The end.

Colin, it seems to me Subban has been getting power-play time, so unless I'm wrong about that I don't quite get your argument.

I still say, then, that the problem mainly comes down to the absence of defencemen competent to run a quality PP. This is not to say JM has been perfect, it's just to try to argue that the fundamental problem is not him.

[patience is a virtue]

The team played 700 hockey for over a month after a slow start. Then we lose 3 in a row, one of them in OT; are 2 pts out of 8th and missing our best player and we are once again discussing firing a coach.

Madness never ends in Montreal

True. But it is usually a bit less prevalent in HW threads.

[BCHabnut]

The teams that fired coaches had huge stars that were not performing. Carolina is the only team which I think is closer to Montreal's situation, and Stall is the only star on the team. A slightly over rated star at the. Anaheim and Washington have so much fire power that I understand why they fired their coaches. I agree with CC, that on paper, this team looks like a good, deep team, but there is not one elite star on offense. The only one close would be Cammalleri, and he is either hurt, or just can't find ice, because of his line mates. This team is competitive when healthy, but at this time, they are far from it. Take a look at Trizzak's GDT for the Sharks. That says it all. I just can't fire the coach when our smurfs are getting dominated by big players on the back end. I mean 3 top 6ers under 5'9"??? Our best offensive prospect is 5'7"???

The absence of a PP quarterback, or even something resembling that is a huge factor. CC is right about that. I also think that we put too much pressure on Eller to be a top 6er. From what I have seen, he is a good third liner and I hope he get's more PK time. I hope I am wrong, and maybe he will find an offensive groove, but I just think that he has potential to a strong shut down guy.

If this team can't get it going in the 2nd quarter of the season, the job I want gone is Pierre Gautier. Even though he has made some savvy moves. (signing Price and trading Halak was HUGE!) If the team doesn't have the horses. Heal the horses, see how they run. If they can't run, fire the guy who brought in the horses!

[illWill]

One reason for firing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact that 80% of all Habs games are absolutely mind-numbingly boring. Don't kid me, I would gladly put up with watching boring hockey if it produced wins consistently, but here we are. I don't know how many times I've been more interested in watching a different game while the Habs play, and that saddens me.

There is definitely a lack of passion lately. Last night vs Anaheim was perhaps one of the worst I've seen. Habs were getting checked after the whistle and just looking away. Not because they were taking the high road but because they don't give a shit. I'm not sure if it's Martin that lost the room or what, but something has to change.

Same thing with the powerplay, effortless and pathetic. It is so predictable that everyone in the building knows what is coming. It was a joke to watch last night. They were just going through the motions. The problem is that you can't teach offensive talent, like you can on defense. These guys have thousands of goals in their lifetime in games, practice, street hockey, video games, you name it. How many of those are from premeditated plays? Scoring is a natural instinct and you have to let these creative offensive players be creative offensive players. You can tell they are sick of the PP and there is no wonder why it is so atrocious.

However, in Martin's defense, he hasn't exactly had a full squad to work with yet. There are rookie defensemen all over the place, forwards getting injured left and right, and not to mention his best skater hasn't played a game yet. It's hard to be consistent when there is no consistency in the lineup. It is a stretch to realistically expect better results from a different coach at this point in the season. Until there is a healthy lineup for him to work with, I don't think it's fair or correct in firing him.....yet.

[l<OV4L3V]

This 0-3 slump is disconcerting, because our early season skid put us in a position where we could not afford too many further slumps. I'll say what I said early in the season, though: it's not about wins and losses, it's about where you are in the standings. Right now, we are two, count 'em two, points out of 8th place. So we remain in a perfectly viable position to make the playoffs and firing Martin would be premature.

its good to be optimistic sometimes..but losing to bottom feeding teams isn't going to allow forward motion. oh ps, you forgot to mention how we are 6 points from being dead last in the East. There's two ways of looking at the glass..you see it as half full..I see it as half empty.

[Habsy]

Is it fair to fire a coach when he doesn't have a power play QB like Markov, or his replacement Campoli? Don't get me wrong, if Martin goes, I won't lose a second of sleep. He's a wealthy man, and has had a long career. I believe a coaching change might even jump start this team. But if I try to put myself in Pierre Gauthier's shoes, not sure I let him go. He deserves a chance to ice a team with a healthy Markov. This website, the entire city of Montreal is hanging on, waiting for Markov. It even looks like the team itself is anticipating his return. I think the coach get's that chance.

[JoeLassister]

I freaking hate firing a coach mid season, but I must admit that when I saw Darche and Gorges on the first wave of the PP last night, it kinda ran through my head... Let alone the fact that Gorges started on the left side, leaving Subban on the right side where a one-timer slap shot is not possible.

[Habsfan]

I am not implying that an Anglo coach is better but what does this tell you? Bowman was the last great coach of a dynasty. Since then we have had moderate success....sure it is a telling sign of the times but the organization for 40 years has settled for coaches based on language instead of taking the best available....maybe it's time for them to realize this policy is wrong.

I've been reading a few posts with regards to this issue about the Habs coach needing to be a Francophone. That is not the case. The issue is that the Habs want a coach that can answer questions with the french media, so 80% of the fanbase can understand what the coach is saying. Does that mean that the coach must be a francophone? Absolutely not! the coach can be russian, can be english, can be chinese for all I care, as long as he can answer questions in french, he would be eligible. That's why Marc Crawford (even though he isn't a francophone) could be a potential replacement.

As far as the Scotty Bowman is concerned, he was a native Montrealer who could communicate with the media in French, and the last Anglo head coach who couldn't speak french was Bob Berry...in the early 80's.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I've been reading a few posts with regards to this issue about the Habs coach needing to be a Francophone. That is not the case. The issue is that the Habs want a coach that can answer questions with the french media, so 80% of the fanbase can understand what the coach is saying. Does that mean that the coach must be a francophone? Absolutely not! the coach can be russian, can be english, can be chinese for all I care, as long as he can answer questions in french, he would be eligible. That's why Marc Crawford (even though he isn't a francophone) could be a potential replacement.

As far as the Scotty Bowman is concerned, he was a native Montreal who could communicate with the media in French, and the last Anglo head coach who couldn't speak french was Bob Berry...in the early 80's.

Good point, but the policy is still stupid - assuming the goal is to win, not simply to keep the ravening jackals of the French media happy. Anyway, it's like complaining about the weather, nothing will change the policy.

The only obviously superior candidate out there is Jacques Lemaire. And there is no way he will do the job on anything other than an interim basis.

[JoeLassister]

Good point, but the policy is still stupid - assuming the goal is to win, not simply to keep the ravening jackals of the French media happy. Anyway, it's like complaining about the weather, nothing will change the policy.

The only obviously superior candidate out there is Jacques Lemaire. And there is no way he will do the job on anything other than an interim basis.

I would prefer an interim of Lemaire over a permanent Crawford.

[Habsfan]

The team played 700 hockey for over a month after a slow start. Then we lose 3 in a row, one of them in OT; are 2 pts out of 8th and missing our best player and we are once again discussing firing a coach.

Madness never ends in Montreal

Sorry about being an ass, but I would just like to point out that, our habs played well during that 14 game stretch where they won 9 out of 14 games (.643 win%), however, they needed that just to salvage the season. In case you may have forgotten, they had 1 win in their first 8 games (.125 win%) and are now 0-3 in their last 3 games (0.000% win%). Add that all up, and we are playing .400% hockey, which is fvc.king pathetic! With or without Markov...

[mandy]

How many times has he stated in the post game interview that our PP killed us. Well what is he doing to fix it? How long does he get?

And how much I hate when he uses the word 'probably' to say it was probably the lack of success on the PP that did us in. I mean come on.

[Habsy]

If we go interim, I want Bob Hartley or a recycled Michel Therrien!!! Hey, even Mario Tremblay is back in Montreal, hanging at RDS. Let's at least make it interesting in this season is going to flame out.

[Colin]

Colin, it seems to me Subban has been getting power-play time, so unless I'm wrong about that I don't quite get your argument.

I still say, then, that the problem mainly comes down to the absence of defencemen competent to run a quality PP. This is not to say JM has been perfect, it's just to try to argue that the fundamental problem is not him.

Yes, he's been getting PP time. Secondary PP time with the second crew. Why not see what he can do - put the pressure on him a little. Seems to me that, thus far, he's responded to virtually every pressure situation. I have to wonder if, once the defence is largely healthy, Subban will actually get no PP time, instead letting Markov, Campoli Diaz, Weber and guys with "experience" take the helm.

Our 5 on 5 play is horrendous, we cannot score and Martin insists on using the same elements even though they do not work.

This is the one redeeming piece of evidence that suggests that JM is doing enough to stay - your statement is incorrect, I think, because we're actually the best we've been in a decade at 5v5. They play a strong *team* defensive game.

Look, plenty of arguments for and against. I'm just of the belief that his schtick here is done. He's not an adaptable coach and the elements he has now are different than those he had when he got here. Also, the team has played with less passion this season than at any time in the previous two.

[JoeLassister]

Not only the PP is the main issue, we seem to get scored right after a PP VERY OFTEN. That, as well, should be fixed.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

If we go interim, I want Bob Hartley or a recycled Michel Therrien!!! Hey, even Mario Tremblay is back in Montreal, hanging at RDS. Let's at least make it interesting in this season is going to flame out.

I hated Therrien and thought he was a boob in both Montreal and Pittsburgh. However, has probably learned a great deal from those failures and might do a solid job.

Tremblay studied at the feet of the master for years in Minnesota and quite possibly would do an excellent job. The trouble is, he's got enough baggage in this town to choke an airport.

Hard to get a read on Hartley, who has been out of the league for long enough that his relevance has to be in doubt. Personally, I always liked André Savard and wouldn't mind seeing him as coach - he has all the necessary credentials - but I guess he's off the radar completely by now. Crawford was underrated in Dallas and would likely be decent. None of these guys represent a clear-cut improvement on what we have now.

EDIT: our top-10 even strength play is NOT the only piece of evidence in JM's favour. As I said above, we have the third best PK and the third best SA totals in hockey. The simple fact is that there is ONLY ONE actual piece of evidence working against Martin, and that is the power-play; which, as I keep saying, is clearly more a product of our inability to replace Wiz than Martin's coaching. Rational analysis, as opposed to hysteria, says that JM is, in fact, doing a good job.

[Commandant]

Sorry about being an ass, but I would just like to point out that, our habs played well during that 14 game stretch where they won 9 out of 14 games (.643 win%), however, they needed that just to salvage the season. In case you may have forgotten, they had 1 win in their first 8 games (.125 win%) and are now 0-3 in their last 3 games (0.000% win%). Add that all up, and we are playing .400% hockey, which is fvc.king pathetic! With or without Markov...

Two things.... 1) The NHL measures point percentage. An OT loss is not the same as a regulation loss.2) The slow start sucks... and it will take us playing solid hockey until January to overcome, as little 2 and 3 game losing streaks will happen. We need to avoid another 7 or 8 game stretch though.

[brobin]

Cherry picking a winning streak to state we are not that bad is confirmation bias at its finest. I would like to point out that that burst of decent hockey followed the firing of an asst coach.

It is not crazy to think firing the actual coach might get some of our guys playing better. It is not crazy to think that a new coach could fix the PP. It is not crazy to wonder if maybe, JM sucks when he doesn't have an assistant that can talk to the players for him (muller).

Personally, I think our team is average at best. Bad coaching could make us worse then average. Great coaching might make us a bit better then average, but only better players are going to make us a contender.

I think JM is a decent coach who can squeeze some points out of an average team by playing boring hockey. It only works if they have great goaltending and can score on the PP. Our best run in the playoffs was winning two series on the back of incredible goaltending, some great shot blocking, and timely goals against weak goalies. It took everything to just hang on for those close wins and we had no chance of getting past Philly or Chicago, imo. Other then that, this team with this coach hasn't done much.

I don't care if they fire JM right now as I am not convinced that will fix things. I think in Washington they had a great team significantly struggling, which is a different situation. I want the team improved, then get us the right coach to take that team all the way. Its not going to happen overnight.

[Habsy]

Way to drop the hammer brobin!

[bar]

I hated Therrien and thought he was a boob in both Montreal and Pittsburgh. However, has probably learned a great deal from those failures and might do a solid job.

Tremblay studied at the feet of the master for years in Minnesota and quite possibly would do an excellent job. The trouble is, he's got enough baggage in this town to choke an airport.

Hard to get a read on Hartley, who has been out of the league for long enough that his relevance has to be in doubt. Personally, I always liked André Savard and wouldn't mind seeing him as coach - he has all the necessary credentials - but I guess he's off the radar completely by now. Crawford was underrated in Dallas and would likely be decent. None of these guys represent a clear-cut improvement on what we have now.

EDIT: our top-10 even strength play is NOT the only piece of evidence in JM's favour. As I said above, we have the third best PK and the third best SA totals in hockey. The simple fact is that there is ONLY ONE actual piece of evidence working against Martin, and that is the power-play; which, as I keep saying, is clearly more a product of our inability to replace Wiz than Martin's coaching. Rational analysis, as opposed to hysteria, says that JM is, in fact, doing a good job.

There are other reasons for my distaste of JMs coaching. It is so boring watching these players saddled down by a defense first system. These players are not built for it..they are built for speed, and I just find everything about him boring. I don't watch the habs out of some sick sense of loyalty, I watch them to be entertained AND out of some sick sense of loyalty.

TLDR version: JM is boring. Entertain me. Heck get Roy in there...entertaining media scrums at least!

[Commandant]

Cherry picking a winning streak to state we are  not that bad is confirmation bias at its finest. I would like to point out that that burst of decent hockey followed the firing of an asst coach.

It is not crazy to think firing the actual coach might get some of our guys playing better. It is not crazy to think that a new coach could fix the PP. It is not crazy to wonder if maybe, JM sucks when he doesn't have an assistant that can talk to the players for him (muller).

Personally, I think our team is average at best. Bad coaching could make us worse then average. Great coaching might make us a bit better then average, but only better players are going to make us a contender.

I think JM is a decent coach who can squeeze some points out of an average team by playing boring hockey. It only works if they have great goaltending and can score on the PP. Our best run in the playoffs was winning two series on the back of incredible goaltending, some great shot blocking, and timely goals against weak goalies. It took everything to just hang on for those close wins and we had no chance of getting past Philly or Chicago, imo. Other then that, this team with this coach hasn't done much.

I don't care if they fire JM right now as I am not convinced that will fix things. I think in Washington they had a great team significantly struggling, which is a different situation. I want the team improved, then get us the right coach to take that team all the way. Its not going to happen overnight.

As CC has pointed out, the Team is top 3 in Penalty Killing, top 3 in Shots against per game, top 10 in even strength Goals For/Goals Against, and 29th in the league in PP. It is obvious that the coaching staff is getting a lot out of this team but there continues to be one issue that plagues them.  An anemic PP. All they need is to average 1 PP goal per game.  Not impossible when you get 5, 6, 7 PPs in a game.  That's 20% or below. One PP goal last night changes the complexion of the entire game. One PP goal against Pittsburgh and we win the game. One PP goal against Philly changes the complexion of the entire game. We'd be looking at taking 4 or 5 points in the last 3 games instead of 1 and would have a totally different out look on the team. Fix the PP and you fix almost everything.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Martin is not a horrible coach and I don't think that most of us are saying that. I guess that Colin's idea of Martin simply being past his expiry date works well.

We are playing well defensively despite all of the rookies for example. The PP is an issue and Cucumber might be correct about the lack of talent.

What about the bizarre use of Eller or Darche? Why is Cammy are Gionta struggling so much? Why can Gomez (insert any vets name) take the same dumb penalty over and over without being "benched" while Eller will have his ice time brought down to nothing?

How many of us were complaining about the lack of ice time for Cole (including on the PP) before Martin was scolded by a reporter and finally changed his ways?

It feels like Martin has a system and that is it. Any other way of thinking is foreign to him and he will hold on to his system and beliefs as long as possible.

Am I the only one that thinks Martin makes some really bizarre decisions?

[TurdBurglar]

No.

God, no.

Leblanc doesn't have the offensive capability yet (and may never have it, by the way) to be worthwhile on the powerplay. He was called up for a taste of the NHL. Plekanec got the same thing. Higgins, Lapierre, Weber...

Rolling out the red carpet for a prospect of his calibre is a terrible idea.

And as for the Habs making a big deal that he was French Canadian... the team probably didn't make a big deal about it. Everyone else did.

Emelin was playing the point on the PP in the 3rd period. When you waste half a period on the PP and still get outshot while your on the PP, try anything.

Whats going to happen with JM is very simple. Most fans want him gone because he's doing a terrible job and should be ashamed to be seen in public, but that doesn't matter. Whats going to happen is February/March when we're in a position where we need to win nearly every game to make the playoffs, JM will be fire. Better off doing it early and trying to salvage this season OR keeping him and trading away contracts for for draft picks.

Right now we're in a bad spot, too high for good drafting and too low for the playoffs. Someone up in the Habs management needs to make a decision on where this team is going and make the right moves to follow that course. Playoffs or rebuild? Make the decision soon.