The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Yes, aesthetic objections to a team-first defensive system are valid on their own terms. Some people want JM canned for this reason, some people want him canned because they dislike this or that specific decision or set of decisions, some people want him canned because he gives boring interviews. My analysis is predicated on the assumption that the goal is to have a coach who gets good results with the talent to hand. So those other variables are irrelevant to me. As for his 'bizarre decisions,' those bizarre decisions have generated a team that is in the top-third five-on-five and absolutely elite on the PK and in terms of SA. Another coach would also make decisions with which a large number of fans will disagree. This is why we need to focus on the actual evidence. I agree that a new coach might produce a temporary spike in performance, just as Carlysle produced a temporary spike in PP performance. I disagree that it would address the underlying problem, which isn't coaching at all, but a lack of NHL-quality power-play defencemen. The evidence for this strongly outweighs the evidence to the contrary. But yeah, if you want sheer entertainment value, we can go back to the days of Carbo and Mario Tremblay. Heck, let's bring back Houle and Kovalev too - one thing they weren't was boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I've been reading a few posts with regards to this issue about the Habs coach needing to be a Francophone. That is not the case. The issue is that the Habs want a coach that can answer questions with the french media, so 80% of the fanbase can understand what the coach is saying. Does that mean that the coach must be a francophone? Absolutely not! the coach can be russian, can be english, can be chinese for all I care, as long as he can answer questions in french, he would be eligible. That's why Marc Crawford (even though he isn't a francophone) could be a potential replacement. As far as the Scotty Bowman is concerned, he was a native Montrealer who could communicate with the media in French, and the last Anglo head coach who couldn't speak french was Bob Berry...in the early 80's. I see the semantics there but again why do they need to speak french? Surely ideal if they do but if there is a better option why settle for someone different because they fit a language? Sorry Dan Bylsma or Mike Babcock. You may be the 2 best coaches in the game right now but you can;t field questions about this or that so despite the language of hockey in the NHL being english you cannot be considered. It's ridiculous. I am sure that if the coach only spoke Russian but led this team to the playoffs and to a Stanley cup then the majority of the fan base won;t care. Winning is what should be important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I see the semantics there but again why do they need to speak french? Surely ideal if they do but if there is a better option why settle for someone different because they fit a language? Sorry Dan Bylsma or Mike Babcock. You may be the 2 best coaches in the game right now but you can;t field questions about this or that so despite the language of hockey in the NHL being english you cannot be considered. It's ridiculous. I am sure that if the coach only spoke Russian but led this team to the playoffs and to a Stanley cup then the majority of the fan base won;t care. Winning is what should be important. For the most part we at Habsworld all agree on this subject. But we don't make the decisions, and the policy isn't changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Willey101, you're from Brossard and you're asking these questions? Why do we have people who measure the size of lettering on store front signs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I am sure that if the coach only spoke Russian but led this team to the playoffs and to a Stanley cup then the majority of the fan base won;t care. Winning is what should be important. One thing I've learned, particularly when I was writing every day on the Habs, was that politics is at least as important as hockey. There were more fans than you could shake a stick at who would say Koivu was terrible on any given night, and sometimes they out-and-out said it was because he didn't speak French. For some reason, the organization has decided to let this political hot potato dictate who's behind the bench, and it's a travesty and a losing proposition. I fully agree that, being in Montreal, the team must be able to relate to the local population. I disagree, however, that they must *represent* everything Quebecois. If there's one thing this league needs more than anything else in the world which will let Montreal step out of this political quagmire, it's the Nordiques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 For the most part we at Habsworld all agree on this subject. But we don't make the decisions, and the policy isn't changing. I know I know. We can argue until we are blue in the face. Social responsibility and the brand of the CH unfortunately takes precedence over product. This is the downside of a fan base that absolutely lives and breathes hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 For the most part we at Habsworld all agree on this subject. But we don't make the decisions, and the policy isn't changing. Also, a non-bilingual coach might end up in a situation where it impossible for him to win, no matter how good he is. Unless his team plays .800 hockey from pole to pole, he will be absolutely demonized on a daily basis, probably unable to walk down the street at the first sign of a slump. The coahc would rapidly become The Story and malcontent players will feed the fire non-stop. You just can't survive when 3 million people regard you as Satan Incarnate night after night after night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Willey101, you're from Brossard and you're asking these questions? Why do we have people who measure the size of lettering on store front signs? Have you seen the new Bill101 issue. Apparently they are going to outlaw English being spoken in the schoolyard of french schools. The Minster of Education is allowing a rule which only allows french to be spoken anywhere on the school grounds. Gotta love Quebec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 As an aside, Bettman has insisted regularly that the Nordiques are not coming back any time soon. Almost as insistently as he did with the Jets. I pray for the good of hockey that Bettman is telling the truth (in that he's hiding something) and that Phoenix/Nashville/Florida/whichever failing franchise you want to talk about) is looking into the possibility of Quebec. That would revive the best rivalry in the NHL, and it would take a lot of French pressure off the Habs. Go Nordiques go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenadian Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 And there are those who want him canned because of the lack of results on ice. ( I know I know we were a game away blah blah blah, he can only work with what he has blah blah blah) Yet I don't see any real improvement, or a coach who can adapt to today's game hell, even making adjustment during a game (like other coachs seem to be able to do) Until they get rid of the bilinugal prerequisite, were stuck. I don't pretend to know how the media etc work (and if most of the pressure comes from outside forces) Does none of the media speak/understand english at all? I think Caryle would be a good fit but hey until he (and other good candidates) can learn french we're missing out on GOOD candidates who have PROVEN records on ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's a wonderful province. With some of the coolest Canadians. That's how I decided to live my life. Even if some of them don't feel Canadian. Oh, and kenadian? They all understand English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's a wonderful province. With some of the coolest Canadians. That's how I decided to live my life. Even if some of them don't feel Canadian. But you live in Vaudreuil. It's practically Ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 But you live in Vaudreuil. It's practically Ontario. I live in Ottawa. It's practically Quebec! (Particularly the east end.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's a fast growing western suburb. Mostly francophone. I decided to try and avoid language issues. I hate that it effects our favourite hockey team. It's up to the Molsons to change the French only deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's a fast growing western suburb. Mostly francophone. I decided to try and avoid language issues. I hate that it effects our favourite hockey team. It's up to the Molsons to change the French only deal. I almost bought a place there about 3 months ago. Right off the 40. Decided to stick with Brossard and renovate instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenadian Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 What we need to do is all chip in a buck or 2 and buy Carlye an app for his phone, like "Real-time translator-TouchTalk" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's a great place to raise a family, but so is Brossard. If you have to commute downtown from here though, different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobblehead Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 My source at the Daily Planet has confirmed that good old Jacques Martin will me toast by Monday. 100% guaranteed..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 As an aside, Bettman has insisted regularly that the Nordiques are not coming back any time soon. Almost as insistently as he did with the Jets. I pray for the good of hockey that Bettman is telling the truth (in that he's hiding something) and that Phoenix/Nashville/Florida/whichever failing franchise you want to talk about) is looking into the possibility of Quebec. That would revive the best rivalry in the NHL, and it would take a lot of French pressure off the Habs. Go Nordiques go! Could not agree more. Been asking for QN back for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 The team played 700 hockey for over a month after a slow start. Then we lose 3 in a row, one of them in OT; are 2 pts out of 8th and missing our best player and we are once again discussing firing a coach. Madness never ends in Montreal I think when they went on their little streak and won a few games it was in spite of Martin not because of him. Whether it's right or wrong, you can't fire the entire team, they are not playing well and a change needs to be made. 9.5/10 the coach gets fired, this will be no exception. Sorry about being an ass, but I would just like to point out that, our habs played well during that 14 game stretch where they won 9 out of 14 games (.643 win%), however, they needed that just to salvage the season. In case you may have forgotten, they had 1 win in their first 8 games (.125 win%) and are now 0-3 in their last 3 games (0.000% win%). Add that all up, and we are playing .400% hockey, which is fvc.king pathetic! With or without Markov... Bang!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I think when they went on their little streak and won a few games it was in spite of Martin not because of him. Whether it's right or wrong, you can't fire the entire team, they are not playing well and a change needs to be made. 9.5/10 the coach gets fired, this will be no exception. Bang!! Once again... the wins are in spite of the coach and the losses are because of him. I love this logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 You're on one extreme, Commandant. The answer is somewhere in the middle. In the end, Colin might be right. Martin and his schtick are done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I fully agree that, being in Montreal, the team must be able to relate to the local population. I disagree, however, that they must *represent* everything Quebecois. If there's one thing this league needs more than anything else in the world which will let Montreal step out of this political quagmire, it's the Nordiques. I would just like to point out that while the Nordiques were in the NHL, the Habs were trying to cater to the francophone population a heckuva lot more than they are today. It was an all out battle between the Habs and the Nords(not just on the ice, but in the front office as well) for the hearts and minds of the population of Québec. I remember seeing a map of the province (back in 1987 approx.) that showed which team was more popular where...and even though the habs were the most popular team in the province, the Nordiques had about 35% of the population on their side. Today the habs have 100% of the populations' support, if the Nordiques were ever to come back, that would surely drop to 70 or maybe even 65%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Bang!! Benoit Brunet? Is that you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 My question is this.. if they decide we are toast at some point and dump what they can and bring in more prospects, is JM the guy to develop our talent? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts