Fire Jacques Martin

[Colin]

I am not a big fan of JM, but people need to consider if his current strategy is based on the fact that he knows he doesn't have a decent D back there.

How do you let your offense take risks with Diaz and Weber back there? Do we want to be the islanders?

Personally, when our D gets improved (either via injured players returning or an acquisition) AND we get some help up front, I don't know what more he can do. He is essentially trying to hang on by playing a stifling game. If our PP worked, we would be in better shape. I just don't think we have the horses. We are not Boston or Pittsburgh.

Take less risks with the current D, sure. But none at all? How do you score?

As for the PP, I'm getting really tired of the arguments about the lack of a quarterback. We're over a quarter way through the season, you'd think there'd be some kind of adaptation, wouldn't you? Yes, Plex was tried at the point for...the bulk of the season so far, but that was a failure. Now someone needs to teach Subban how to hit the net without taking a windup, during which Hall "Snail" Gill could skate from his goal crease to the opposition end.... AND BACK AGAIN. Even then, where's the adaptation? Sure, we need a PP QB, but we also need to *win* pucks - which we don't do - have a couple of set zone entrance plays - which we don't have - and then a lot more movement once control is gained - and we're static. I remember despising our PP a few years ago even when it was successful because they wanted to do the dump-in. Thing of it was, it was a planned play, the winger and forward consistently combined with the far side defender to win the puck, and everyone was dynamic in the zone. Now? If we even get possession, everyone takes a place, moves maybe five feet from it, don't compete very hard for the puck, and then wonder why the PP sucks. I mean, come on, get real. A PP QB isn't going to help that - he'll just be keyed on, and with guys not moving, it's still going to be Epic Fail.

Markov won't help this PP so much as some kind of plan and effort and movement.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't think sitting back is Jacques Martin's game plan though, he's always said he wants the Habs to be a puck possession team. It's just that with Markov out, this defence sucks and the Habs have to either run and gun, hoping they'll outscore the other teams (don't see it happening) or go into a defensive shell, relying on their PP and goaltending. With a full line up, they're a deep team. Right now, their D isn't playoff team quality. The only way to disguise that is to play all out team defence. Attacking more will probably just expose Diaz and Weber even more.

This is about when Gauthier trades a 2nd rounder for a #4 d-man.

Bingo. And if the Martin-haters saw any other team icing the kind of back end we are icing, they would accept it as a glaringly obvious fact that that team has to play a total team commitment to defence, because the talent back there is substandard. And incidentally, JM's teams in Montreal have consistently HAD good breakout passes when they have consistently had talent back there to provide them.

This year's D is last year's D minus Hammer and Wisniewski. No duh,it has serious limitations.

In response to a minor point Commandant made, I wouldn't go so far as to say Weber is a bad player. He may just be going through the kind of growng pains that invariably strike young players. That he is doing so is not necessarily JM's fault - if you focus on results (i.e., the only actual evidence we have) it is glaringly obvious that JM has done a fine job of bringing our young guys along - but it's also not necessarily proof of Weber's intrinsic mediocrity. He's only 22; I don't want this to be yet another case of us throwing away a guy after suffering his growing pains, so he can go be a valuable player elsewhere.

[Colin]

I don't think sitting back is Jacques Martin's game plan though, he's always said he wants the Habs to be a puck possession team. It's just that with Markov out, this defence sucks and the Habs have to either run and gun, hoping they'll outscore the other teams (don't see it happening) or go into a defensive shell, relying on their PP and goaltending. With a full line up, they're a deep team. Right now, their D isn't playoff team quality. The only way to disguise that is to play all out team defence. Attacking more will probably just expose Diaz and Weber even more.

This is about when Gauthier trades a 2nd rounder for a #4 d-man.

They brought in Weber and Diaz as supplements to the puck possession game - guys who can move the puck. Add Subban and a vastly improving Gorges, and you have four of six who can make that first pass - or who should be able to. So where's the transition game? We have all elements in place except Markov. Are you telling me that the transition game is utterly dependent on him? Because if it is, I suggest we're only marginally less screwed. No, this puck possession and transition game relies on the defence as a group being able to move the puck. It's an Epic Fail so far.

Also, what you're saying is that, without Markov, they don't have playoff quality D. One player? I don't care how good he is, if you feel one player makes the difference, then you're dreaming. Fact is, Subban and Gorges are top-four defenders. Emelin is rapidly improving. The Swiss Cheeses are supposed to be at least mildly reliable, and if nothing else, able to work the transition game. So far that's been the biggest failing. Why? Because there's no outlet pass available because of the Turtle game plan. Get out of the plan, give Carey a little more work if you have to, and see if you can generate offence! Why have an All-Star goalie and not use that fact? Are we aiming for the Jennings trophy, or are we aiming for the Stanley Cup?

[Colin]

Here's a thought - if you feel the defence is an issue, then why not take the pressure OFF them by maintaining possession elsewhere on the rink?

[BTH]

They brought in Weber and Diaz as supplements to the puck possession game - guys who can move the puck. Add Subban and a vastly improving Gorges, and you have four of six who can make that first pass - or who should be able to. So where's the transition game? We have all elements in place except Markov. Are you telling me that the transition game is utterly dependent on him? Because if it is, I suggest we're only marginally less screwed. No, this puck possession and transition game relies on the defence as a group being able to move the puck. It's an Epic Fail so far.

Also, what you're saying is that, without Markov, they don't have playoff quality D. One player? I don't care how good he is, if you feel one player makes the difference, then you're dreaming. Fact is, Subban and Gorges are top-four defenders. Emelin is rapidly improving. The Swiss Cheeses are supposed to be at least mildly reliable, and if nothing else, able to work the transition game. So far that's been the biggest failing. Why? Because there's no outlet pass available because of the Turtle game plan. Get out of the plan, give Carey a little more work if you have to, and see if you can generate offence! Why have an All-Star goalie and not use that fact? Are we aiming for the Jennings trophy, or are we aiming for the Stanley Cup?

Markov makes a huge difference. Why is it so ridiculous to think that a team that isn't playoff quality can become so if you add a superstar at their weakest position? Isn't it obvious the impact adding that player will have? Right now, their top 6 consists of one borderline top 2 d-man, one second pairing d-man, 2 bottom pairing d-man and 2 7th d-men. Adding "one top pairing d-man" to the start of that list bumps everybody else back a notch. Add Spacek too and now both your #7s are on the bench. Campoli too and now you have another PP quarterback. Markov's also important because he's the backbone of the powerplay.

Teams with All-Star goalies usually go defensive shell mode by the way. It seems to be what works best.

[Commandant]

How do you maintain puck possession with this cast of small forwards? Do you really expect Cammalleri, Desharnais, Gionta, Plekanec, Gomez, etc... to be successful in the cycle game?

The key to any offence that a fast but small team can produce is causing turnovers and capitalizing on those turnovers.... not puck possession, because they are gonna get knocked off the puck.

Recent moves to bring in Eller and Cole have helped this a lot, but there still needs to be more size before a true puck possession game can be implemented.

[TurdBurglar]

Weber regressing is more a sign that Weber is simply not that good, than an indictment of coaching.... when we have 4 defensemen around him who are developing in Subban, Diaz, Emelin and St. Denis. Some guys are just not that good.

Martin stomped any defensive confidence Weber might gain from day 1 by only using him on the PP and 4th forward line. Now with the injuries and 3 years with lack of any real NHL defensive experience, he's put in a defensive role and is struggling. Martin didn't do Weber any favors and wasted 3 years of his defensive development. You point to Subban, Diaz, Emelin and St. Denis, but Weber spent more time on the 4th forward line than all 4 of the others combined and wasn't put in any defensive situations. This year is his first real year as an NHL defenseman and it's looking like it. Don't blame Weber for his play, blame the person who's in charge of putting him in situations to grow as a player.

I don't think sitting back is Jacques Martin's game plan though, he's always said he wants the Habs to be a puck possession team.

This team is far from a puck possession team and Martin is teaching them to be the way they are. Coaches punish players for not following their system if it's hurting the team. Right now we are spending way too much time in our own zone because we're giving the puck to the other team. We're lousy on faceoffs, in our zone instead of turning the puck over and breaking out, we're turning the puck over and dumping out of the zone as fast as possible, causing way too many icings, with very few breakout passes. If puck possession was Martin's goal he wouldn't be so passive about the lack of puck possession. All I've seen as a strategy, and from every game, is get the puck out of our zone, as far into their zone as possible and don't chase. This is causing lots of icings with a bad faceoff team, tired lines, no puck possession time, and no forecheck.

The lack-of-pressure system Martin has in place makes it easy for teams using pressure to beat us. The most pressure we put on the other team is on the PK and look how well that is, yet on offense, forechecking and in our zone at even strength there's no pressure. On offense we get 1, rarely 2 shots and the puck turned over because there's no pressure to turn the puck over in the offensive zone. This system encourages lots of shots, but rarely any of quality. Just shoot from anywhere, hardly any rebounds and no pressure to turn over the puck after the shot. On defense we take away the cross-crease passes, cover the slot, but causing rebounds into the corner to be easily retrieved by the other team to setup and try again. Yes, this is his system, not the players on the ice doing what they want. Even though he says this isn't what he's coaching, results speak for themselves. If players don't listen to the coach they get demoted (Ryan, Kostitsyn, Heatley, Carter, M.Richards) or traded if the system is working and the player is hurting the team. If the player's are following the system and it's not working the person coaching the system is fired.

[Commandant]

Martin stomped any defensive confidence Weber might gain from day 1 by only using him on the PP and 4th forward line. Now with the injuries and 3 years with lack of any real NHL defensive experience, he's put in a defensive role and is struggling. Martin didn't do Weber any favors and wasted 3 years of his defensive development. You point to Subban, Diaz, Emelin and St. Denis, but Weber spent more time on the 4th forward line than all 4 of the others combined and wasn't put in any defensive situations. This year is his first real year as an NHL defenseman and it's looking like it. Don't blame Weber for his play, blame the person who's in charge of putting him in situations to grow as a player.

Weber played 41 games in the NHL last year. Less than 10 of those games were at forward.

Weber has played 28 games in the NHL this year. He's played around 5 games as a forward.

The guy has more NHL experience on defence than Diaz and Emelin combined. This argument is faulty. A few games being used at forward shouldn't kill the kid.

This team is far from a puck possession team and Martin is teaching them to be the way they are. Coaches punish players for not following their system if it's hurting the team. Right now we are spending way too much time in our own zone because we're giving the puck to the other team. We're lousy on faceoffs, in our zone instead of turning the puck over and breaking out, we're turning the puck over and dumping out of the zone as fast as possible, causing way too many icings, with very few breakout passes. If puck possession was Martin's goal he wouldn't be so passive about the lack of puck possession. All I've seen as a strategy, and from every game, is get the puck out of our zone, as far into their zone as possible and don't chase. This is causing lots of icings with a bad faceoff team, tired lines, no puck possession time, and no forecheck.

The lack-of-pressure system Martin has in place makes it easy for teams using pressure to beat us. The most pressure we put on the other team is on the PK and look how well that is, yet on offense, forechecking and in our zone at even strength there's no pressure. On offense we get 1, rarely 2 shots and the puck turned over because there's no pressure to turn the puck over in the offensive zone. This system encourages lots of shots, but rarely any of quality. Just shoot from anywhere, hardly any rebounds and no pressure to turn over the puck after the shot. On defense we take away the cross-crease passes, cover the slot, but causing rebounds into the corner to be easily retrieved by the other team to setup and try again. Yes, this is his system, not the players on the ice doing what they want. Even though he says this isn't what he's coaching, results speak for themselves. If players don't listen to the coach they get demoted (Ryan, Kostitsyn, Heatley, Carter, M.Richards) or traded if the system is working and the player is hurting the team. If the player's are following the system and it's not working the person coaching the system is fired.

So we should be a high pressure team. Do you mean a hard forecheck? Yeah good luck with the size of the personnel this team has.

[Colin]

How do you maintain puck possession with this cast of small forwards? Do you really expect Cammalleri, Desharnais, Gionta, Plekanec, Gomez, etc... to be successful in the cycle game?

The key to any offence that a fast but small team can produce is causing turnovers and capitalizing on those turnovers.... not puck possession, because they are gonna get knocked off the puck.

Recent moves to bring in Eller and Cole have helped this a lot, but there still needs to be more size before a true puck possession game can be implemented.

Then why is Martin coach if he can't coach his style because we don't have the players for it? Doesn't that mean he's pushing square pegs into round holes? Furthermore, I vehemently dispute that we have a "small" forward corps. While grouped the way you have it, yes it looks small, but somehow players like Yzerman, Sakic, and Gretzky weren't considered small when they were supported by bigger guys. Plex and Gomez are the same size. With Kosty, Cole, Eller, Moen, Patches, Plex and Gomez, you're talking a very reasonable size element. Are they the biggest? Not a chance. But I can't consider them small - not when 7 of 9 are reasonably sized. And before you argue that they play small, let's talk about Joe Thornton, who's consistently outplayed by guys half his size.

As for the possession game, while I agree that size matters, so does a strong first step and plenty of quickness and maneuverability. There has to be combination. Gainey, Carbo and Nilan weren't big. Hell, Nilan, while good enough, didn't have half the skill that guys in our lineup have. So how come they were so good? First, they were allowed to go three deep when they saw a reasonable opportunity. Second, they practiced at it endlessly. Do we even practice a cycle? Do the Habs even know what it is? This version certainly doesn't show any skill at it whatsoever.

Markov makes a huge difference. Why is it so ridiculous to think that a team that isn't playoff quality can become so if you add a superstar at their weakest position? Isn't it obvious the impact adding that player will have? Right now, their top 6 consists of one borderline top 2 d-man, one second pairing d-man, 2 bottom pairing d-man and 2 7th d-men. Adding "one top pairing d-man" to the start of that list bumps everybody else back a notch. Add Spacek too and now both your #7s are on the bench. Campoli too and now you have another PP quarterback. Markov's also important because he's the backbone of the powerplay.

Teams with All-Star goalies usually go defensive shell mode by the way. It seems to be what works best.

First, I don't agree with your assessment of the defence. Second, even if I did agree, I still don't think the addition of one All-Star defender makes the improvement you suggest it makes - the league has been littered with teams with one great guy and mediocrity who have failed to make the playoffs. Third, Boston, the most recent winner of the Cup, has a very good attacking game. They also rely on their goalie to make the big save. They virtually never go into a defensive shell.

[Habsy]

How do you maintain puck possession with this cast of small forwards? Do you really expect Cammalleri, Desharnais, Gionta, Plekanec, Gomez, etc... to be successful in the cycle game?

The key to any offence that a fast but small team can produce is causing turnovers and capitalizing on those turnovers.... not puck possession, because they are gonna get knocked off the puck.

Recent moves to bring in Eller and Cole have helped this a lot, but there still needs to be more size before a true puck possession game can be implemented.

What?? You're posting non stop, defending Martin since the season began. Now you're telling us a puck possession game can't be implemented? Martin has been spewing that since his arrival. Also, puck possession does not necessarily equal cycle. Our smallish, fast forwards are perfect for a quick strike, pressure game. Nobody expects the players you mentioned to cycle.

[TurdBurglar]

Weber played 41 games in the NHL last year. Less than 10 of those games were at forward.

Weber has played 28 games in the NHL this year. He's played around 5 games as a forward.

The guy has more NHL experience on defence than Diaz and Emelin combined. This argument is faulty. A few games being used at forward shouldn't kill the kid.

So what your saying is roughtly 1/4 his NHL experience (don't forget playoff) is on a forward line. While you think it shouldn't kill the kid, a simple switch from winger to center, or vice versa, can mess up a player's game completely, yet you somehow believe a switch from defense to forward isn't anything major. The message Martin was passing to Weber by putting him forward is that even on a team with an injury-plagued defensive core, your not good enough to be a defenseman.

So we should be a high pressure team. Do you mean a hard forecheck? Yeah good luck with the size of the personnel this team has.

Hardest forecheckers we have right now, by far is Gionta(5' 7", 173lbs) and Desharnais(5' 7", 177lbs). Your argument is faulty.

The reason we have no forecheck is because Martin wants all 5 players back for defense to protect the lead we don't have. We get very few rebound goals because as soon as we look like we're losing the puck the defense and a forward backs towards the defensive zone, while the other 2 forward don't put pressure on the puck to turn it over. A good offensive strategy doesn't start with the mentality to get out of the offensive zone. There's also no creativity what so ever on offense, something every coach should encourage, hard to be creative when 3/5th of your team isn't even in the offensive zone.

My very first coach told me, "the other team can't score if they don't get out of their zone." He was a highschool teacher, yet a NHL coach with over 1000 games experience can't see this.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Turd Burglar

[patience is a virtue]

It is worth noting, that if the Habs get hot and win most of the rest of their games in Dec, we may look back and remember that they also took 4 of a possible 6 points in the first three games of the month.

Just saying that everyone should chill. I think JM's job is safe for a while yet. This team is made up of winners with positive attitudes. They don't like to lose and they've had about enough of it by now. Max Pac had his warm up game back - expect him to go on a tear. Ditto Cole - he is due, as is Cammy, who is playing better by the game. AK is playing, dare I say, consistently, and Gio is finding his mojo too. Price is a rock.

Improvements are required but don't be surprised if we get hot. And cut out the mediocrity crap. These forwards are not mediocre. They are struggling right now, but they are not mediocre. Price is most certainly not mediocre. And the defense, while mediocre at present, will be very good once Spac and Campoli are back, and excellent once The General finally returns. With all the hits and solid play, I expect Emelin to stick in the top 6:

Gorges-Subban

Emelin-Spac

Gill-Campoli

...

Markov-Emelin

Gorges-Subban

Gill-Spac/Campoli

[hankhab]

While I agree that our main problem is an inexperienced and smallish defensive group, I still would like to see a different coach, the reason being, I just don't like our style of play, not enough forechecking, a very bad powerplay, and too many nights like last night, where there appeared to be little team play, and too little effort. We often fail to show up against teams like Colombus. This team has some very fast skaters, but you rarely see anyone break in on odd man rushes, simply because the coaching style doesn't encourage aggressive offense. Martin has begun to rely too much on Desharnes, who, although has some ability, is too small and too slow to be a true number 2 center. It would make much more sense, in my opinion, to give more minutes to Eller, who is much bigger, and has more potential. I think the hunt for a new head coach should have begun a few weeks ago.

[Commandant]

What?? You're posting non stop, defending Martin since the season began. Now you're telling us a puck possession game can't be implemented? Martin has been spewing that since his arrival. Also, puck possession does not necessarily equal cycle. Our smallish, fast forwards are perfect for a quick strike, pressure game. Nobody expects the players you mentioned to cycle.

Our forwards are perfectly set for a quick strike game.... absolutely.

How do you quick strike? Simple, cause turnovers, and win races to loose pucks in your own zone, and then once you get that turnover or loose puck you quickly transition to offence creating a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 the other way.

How do you cause turnovers, and get to loose pucks? By playing defence and forcing the other teams to make mistakes, and then capitalizing on those mistakes.

That's the plan in Montreal most nights, thats Martin's system... but it wasn't done last night.

[TurdBurglar]

Our forwards are perfectly set for a quick strike game.... absolutely.

How do you quick strike? Simple, cause turnovers, and win races to loose pucks in your own zone, and then once you get that turnover or loose puck you quickly transition to offence creating a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 the other way.

How do you cause turnovers, and get to loose pucks? By playing defence and forcing the other teams to make mistakes, and then capitalizing on those mistakes.

That's the plan in Montreal most nights, thats Martin's system... but it wasn't done last night.

How do you get to lose pucks in the defensive zone? Putting pressure on the other team when their in our defensive zone, something that hasn't been done all year. Instead all 5 players are in the slot, in no position to force turnovers, one key piece to the counter attack game your saying we're using. Instead of making quick passes out of the zone setting up offense, we're dumping it out of the zone to nobody to relieve the pressure put on by not putting pressure on their offense.

To summarize, Martin is using a counter attack offensive strategy, without forcing turn overs and giving the puck to the other team when the puck is turned over. Your defending a coach implementing a broken system? We get better chances on the PK because for some reason we're using pressure on the PK and not using pressure 5-on-5.

The only reason we have a high number of shots in a game is nearly half of them aren't shots that should be taken. A perfect example is Eller's weak wrist shot from just inside the blue line last night. These kind of shots shouldn't be taken, but we take at least 10 of them a game. Cut 10 shots off our average, 30.2 shots a game, and we're at 20.2 shots a game that should be taken. If statistically we were getting 20 shots a game everyone would be pointing at the shot count as to why we're not scoring. Quantity does NOT mean quality.

[BTH]

Then why is Martin coach if he can't coach his style because we don't have the players for it? Doesn't that mean he's pushing square pegs into round holes? Furthermore, I vehemently dispute that we have a "small" forward corps. While grouped the way you have it, yes it looks small, but somehow players like Yzerman, Sakic, and Gretzky weren't considered small when they were supported by bigger guys. Plex and Gomez are the same size. With Kosty, Cole, Eller, Moen, Patches, Plex and Gomez, you're talking a very reasonable size element. Are they the biggest? Not a chance. But I can't consider them small - not when 7 of 9 are reasonably sized. And before you argue that they play small, let's talk about Joe Thornton, who's consistently outplayed by guys half his size.

As for the possession game, while I agree that size matters, so does a strong first step and plenty of quickness and maneuverability. There has to be combination. Gainey, Carbo and Nilan weren't big. Hell, Nilan, while good enough, didn't have half the skill that guys in our lineup have. So how come they were so good? First, they were allowed to go three deep when they saw a reasonable opportunity. Second, they practiced at it endlessly. Do we even practice a cycle? Do the Habs even know what it is? This version certainly doesn't show any skill at it whatsoever.

First, I don't agree with your assessment of the defence. Second, even if I did agree, I still don't think the addition of one All-Star defender makes the improvement you suggest it makes - the league has been littered with teams with one great guy and mediocrity who have failed to make the playoffs. Third, Boston, the most recent winner of the Cup, has a very good attacking game. They also rely on their goalie to make the big save. They virtually never go into a defensive shell.

Boston, as in Claude Julien's team? They also have Chara (their version of Markov). I bet if Chara was injured, their whole team would have to change their style of play because their remaining D group would be sub par.

Their team isn't all mediocrity though. They were a slightly above average team last year without Markov, Cole, Pacioretty for half the season, and Subban sucked for the first half of the season. Given all the changes that took place in the off-season, there's no question that our current team, when healthy, is better than that slightly above average team (AKA they're now a "good" team, should have no trouble making the playoffs). The thing is, with the injuries they have now, they're no better than last season, still missing Markov. With a healthy line up, I think they're one of the 10 best teams in the league on paper.

Look at

Markov-Emelin

Gill-Gorges

Weber-Subban

Compared to

Subban-Emelin

Gill-Gorges

Weber-Diaz

In the first scenario, all three pairings are average to very good.

In the second scenario, two of the pairings (1st and 3rd) are noticeably weak given their position on the depth chart.

And finally, imagine

Markov-Subban

Gill-Gorges

Campoli-Spacek

Emelin

Maybe Emelin would be playing over one of the other two, but either way, we'll not only have all our bench players on the bench, but we'll even have a decent starter on the bench.

Then consider how Markov affects the PP. Look at how much difference Wisniewski made last season, and Moore made two or three seasons ago. Markov will be huge.

[Commandant]

Boston, as in Julien's team absolutely plays the trap. I don't know what Bruins team you guys have been watching, but they absolutely go into a defensive shell at times.

[Commandant]

How do you get to lose pucks in the defensive zone? Putting pressure on the other team when their in our defensive zone, something that hasn't been done all year. Instead all 5 players are in the slot, in no position to force turnovers, one key piece to the counter attack game your saying we're using. Instead of making quick passes out of the zone setting up offense, we're dumping it out of the zone to nobody to relieve the pressure put on by not putting pressure on their offense.

To summarize, Martin is using a counter attack offensive strategy, without forcing turn overs and giving the puck to the other team when the puck is turned over. Your defending a coach implementing a broken system? We get better chances on the PK because for some reason we're using pressure on the PK and not using pressure 5-on-5.

Montreal causes a lot of turnovers in the neutral zone, this is where the majority of their turnovers happen.

In the defensive zone the key should be to get the loose pucks that are created by blocking shots and by rebounds, the Habs actually do a decent job of this, however what they aren't doing is making a good first pass.

Martin's system is never to "just dump it out", its to look for a first pass as the first option, and to dump it if nothing is available. The issue again comes back to an inexperienced d-core.

Guys like Weber, Diaz, Emelin, sure they are good passers when given time and space... but they are still very raw players. When pressured, when not given time, they have not yet developped poise with the puck; the ability to know exactly how long they have before needing to make the pass (which Gorges is great at) or the ability to skate it out of danger (subban); the other three haven't yet mastered NHL speed. That is to be expected out of such young dmen, and I'm sure they will get there eventually, but right now, these guys don't have the poise to make the pass right before being hit, or to skate in such a way as to open up their options. They still rush things at times, which leads to a lot of dump outs into the neutral zone. This play is safe, but it surely is not the optimal plan A that is preached in Martin's system. Its the plan B that these young players take when they don't have the time or the poise at the NHL level to make that good breakout pass.

The only reason we have a high number of shots in a game is nearly half of them aren't shots that should be taken. A perfect example is Eller's weak wrist shot from just inside the blue line last night. These kind of shots shouldn't be taken, but we take at least 10 of them a game. Cut 10 shots off our average, 30.2 shots a game, and we're at 20.2 shots a game that should be taken. If statistically we were getting 20 shots a game everyone would be pointing at the shot count as to why we're not scoring. Quantity does NOT mean quality.

Really you've quantified this as ten shots every single game? And you've accounted for the fact that other teams often take low percentage shots and that raises everyone's shot total in the NHL?

Sure the Habs take some very low percentage shots at times. But there is nothing to quantify the fact that they do this more than any other team.

[BlueKross]

I can't take credit for this, but I thought it was pretty good. We are able to protect the one goal deficit to profection!

[Willey101]

Boston, as in Claude Julien's team? They also have Chara (their version of Markov). I bet if Chara was injured, their whole team would have to change their style of play because their remaining D group would be sub par.

Their team isn't all mediocrity though. They were a slightly above average team last year without Markov, Cole, Pacioretty for half the season, and Subban sucked for the first half of the season. Given all the changes that took place in the off-season, there's no question that our current team, when healthy, is better than that slightly above average team (AKA they're now a "good" team, should have no trouble making the playoffs). The thing is, with the injuries they have now, they're no better than last season, still missing Markov. With a healthy line up, I think they're one of the 10 best teams in the league on paper.

Look at

Markov-Emelin

Gill-Gorges

Weber-Subban

Compared to

Subban-Emelin

Gill-Gorges

Weber-Diaz

In the first scenario, all three pairings are average to very good.

In the second scenario, two of the pairings (1st and 3rd) are noticeably weak given their position on the depth chart.

And finally, imagine

Markov-Subban

Gill-Gorges

Campoli-Spacek

Emelin

Maybe Emelin would be playing over one of the other two, but either way, we'll not only have all our bench players on the bench, but we'll even have a decent starter on the bench.

Then consider how Markov affects the PP. Look at how much difference Wisniewski made last season, and Moore made two or three seasons ago. Markov will be huge.

For Starters Weber won't be the 6th D-man. He is behind Spacek, Campoli, and Diaz. He is 9th if not 10th right now on the depth chart. When/if the players come back it will likely look like this:

Markov-Emelin

Gorges-Subban

Gill-Campoli/Spacek/Diaz

Weber once healthy bodies return I believe is as good as gone.

Second Moore never played on the PP. He was a PK player. I assume you are talking about Bergeron however? Schneider before him, Souray before him. Our success for so many years involved Markov passing the puck for the big one-timer. Even when Markov comes back I don't see how this problem is rectified. Is Campoli now the big shot from the point? Do we try Spacek who failed miserably when he was given he chance? Do we eliminate the 1-timer and go with Subban? Or are we making bigger changes and shedding maybe 2 d-men and going with a shot like McCabe?

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

• montreal is at its best when playing "rope a dope" hockey. which is the counter attack!
  
• possession hockey is not and shouldn't be confused with "the cycle" game
  
• size is actually not the biggest element to the forecheck speed and a quick stick!
  

i think the worst part of montreals game is in fact there forecheck. almost all the time they send one guy in to push the play 1 way or dump the puck , change lines then clog the neutral zone alla trap.. with a team this size and with so much speed id be sending 2 in at full throttle 2 in the neutral zone and 1 guy deep... thats just me though.

the transition game is harder to decipher. gill has zero transition game whereas gorges this season looks good in all situations. i know subban will be fine but he was ridiculously bad in columbus. over playing pucks, flopping around, misfiring etc. with that said he did played 32 minutes. emelin is showing a great first pass and the ability to just ruin guys with the body. with a little more positioning sense he'll be great. our biggest problems on defence are diaz and weber. there tiny size has them constantly trying to avoid contact. notice when they have the puck they are thinking of avoiding the check first which means there moving pucks to quickly and inaccurately or there trying spins and jukes with the puck which ultimately lead to turn overs. i think with campoli and spacek's iminant return we might actually have the depth to string a few wins together! as long as JM isnt a real favoring bird and see's what countless fans and media see.... that my friends is that emelin should NOT come out of the line up over those 2 and at this point!!!!

[brobin]

Boston, as in Julien's team absolutely plays the trap. I don't know what Bruins team you guys have been watching, but they absolutely go into a defensive shell at times.

Yes, but they also have the size and toughness to do it. Boston can play a fast paced game. Boston can play a nasty, dirty, hard hitting grind game. Boston can play a special teams game. They can change strategies mid-game. We have one strategy and if we don't use it, we lose. If the other team counter acts it, we are 50/50. If they come in and forecheck the crap out of us, we lose.

[TurdBurglar]

In the defensive zone the key should be to get the loose pucks that are created by blocking shots and by rebounds, the Habs actually do a decent job of this, however what they aren't doing is making a good first pass.

Martin's system is never to "just dump it out", its to look for a first pass as the first option, and to dump it if nothing is available. The issue again comes back to an inexperienced d-core.

Guys like Weber, Diaz, Emelin, sure they are good passers when given time and space... but they are still very raw players. When pressured, when not given time, they have not yet developped poise with the puck; the ability to know exactly how long they have before needing to make the pass (which Gorges is great at) or the ability to skate it out of danger (subban); the other three haven't yet mastered NHL speed. That is to be expected out of such young dmen, and I'm sure they will get there eventually, but right now, these guys don't have the poise to make the pass right before being hit, or to skate in such a way as to open up their options. They still rush things at times, which leads to a lot of dump outs into the neutral zone. This play is safe, but it surely is not the optimal plan A that is preached in Martin's system. Its the plan B that these young players take when they don't have the time or the poise at the NHL level to make that good breakout pass.

In the defensive zone the habs don't get to lose puck very often. All 5 players are encompassing the slot and when the puck goes to the corner or behind the net they get beat to the puck more times than not. Watch the games.

So it's not the coaches game to dump it out when recovering the puck in their own zone, so who's game is it? There's no looking for a pass when they recover the puck. They either dump it behind the net, hoping someone is there or out of the zone, causing icings and turnovers. Your not seeing the 3-4 icings a period due to this? Sometimes two in a row? The biggest problem is it's Gorges, Subban and Gill doing this also, you know the 3 experienced defesemen we have on the ice now? Are you forgetting the failed dumps out fo the zone that make it to the other team's defensemen, staying in the zone? That isn't in any way,. shape or form a pass to a teammate.

Really you've quantified this as ten shots every single game? And you've accounted for the fact that other teams often take low percentage shots and that raises everyone's shot total in the NHL?

Sure the Habs take some very low percentage shots at times. But there is nothing to quantify the fact that they do this more than any other team.

All I have to say about this is watch other teams play. I watch Montreal, Edmonton and Vancouver games, in that priority. The low percentage shots aren't the nice, hard point shots. It's the weak wrist shots from the point and the abundant shots from bad angles. I'll count tonight and post how many low percentage shots they take.

I'm glad you have faith in Martin. Martin has a system in place that is not working. You put this system he is using now on any team and they will have a record like ours. He has his regular system modified because he doesn't trust this team. Last year players were scoring timely goals with his system and it worked, this year they are not so he's coaching more defense, less offense to not lose. He has no intention on winning, just not losing. Whether you want to believe it or not, what the players are doing on the ice is what Martin is telling them to do. What their doing isn't working obviously, so what the coach is coaching isn't working. How does a coach coaching a system thats not working make the coach a good coach? Martin's motto right now has to be, "if it's broke, don't fix it."

[Commandant]

Firstly, the shots. Sure count montreals bad shots. It doesn't mean much unless you count every team in the league though and adjust all shot counts accordingly. You want to say 10 habs shots a game are poor, so we really should only be averaging 20-22 shots per game. Even if that's true, it means nothing without knowing what every other team is doing. Stat without context.

Secondly, I don't believe its just subban gill and gorges making dump outs. I see far more poise from gorges and Subban than from the swiss D, emelin and st.d

[Habsy]

Please don't shoot me, the messenger. But, local radio host Marinaro just tweeted with a link to something called The Fourth Period. It says a major shakeup might be in the works. Which could include both Gauthier and obviously Martin, who very few want to keep. Again, I'm just offering up information.