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Don't wait for spring.....do it now!

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I can't remember the product but I remember the jingle...."Don't wait for spring, do it now". Or something like that. I think that needs to be what Geoff Molson sees and hears everywhere he looks these days. It should be going through his mind, and hopefully he's begun to act upon that thought.

How much worse does it have to get before something effective and solid takes place.

Two coaches have been fired.

The team mishandled the implementation of Randy Cunneyworth worse than I have ever seen a situation handled.

They embroiled the team in a language debate and created division instead of unity.

Fans have held a protest outside the Bell center.

Now two players, Cammalleri and Weber have publicly made critical and hurtful comments that have insulted and probably made angry both players and coaches.

We have a GM that everyone is just waiting for him to be fired.

And the trading deadline is in sight and barring an absolute hockey miracle we will not get into any big winning streaks and will be sellers [to whatever degree is debatable].

So the $64,000 question is, do we want to go through what's coming and needed with the GM who has been at least a part or at worst the reason and cause for all of the above?

Personally I don't dislike Gauthier, I just think we need at least a minor to medium makeover and I don't think he's the guy to do it. But that's been said by lots of people in the media and in these blogs.

The key for me right now is that the most important first step before the trading deadline, before we sell or buy anyone, before we begin any tweaking at all, and before we put a coach in place who can speak both languages, is for Geoff Molson to make a decision regarding our GM and I believe strongly that there is no point whatsoever in waiting for spring to do it, do it now.

If it's Gauthier, then announce it, give him the power to do whatever needs to be done and let him loose.

If it's not Gauthier, then hopefully you're right now making the calls and speaking with whoever needs to be spoken with so that we can get that postion filled.

We can't wait any longer, a leader has to step up and do what's necessary so we can get things moving. By waiting we are just making all of our own people angry, as I'm sure it's affecting the dressing room, morale is affected, and our reputation is taking a beating around the league.

I'm not saying we should rush into anything, I'm just saying don't wait for spring to start it all, begin to do it now!!

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Seems like this could be merged with your other rather similar thread.

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Using the logic you outlined above we would have to assume they are making calls for a new GM right now. I.e they haven't publicly supported him yet)

I would guess the pool of bilingual GM candidates would be as small as the pool of bilingual coaches.

(null)

Edited by Kiwihab

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Seems like this could be merged with your other rather similar thread.

My two threads had two different emphasis. The first thread was to suggest that we shouldn't make any desperate moves to get rid of prospects or picks just to squeak into the playoffs. The point of this thread is to suggest that we shouldn't wait until April or May to start to work through any changes we need to make because IMO things are getting desperate right now and we need to act now and not wait. The intent was that these two threads should be addressing two different concerns.

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Hypothetically, what if the guy you really want isn't available until spring?

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Hypothetically, what if the guy you really want isn't available until spring?

Then you have to do one of 2 things. Either fire Gauthier and get an interm GM like Toronto did before they got Burke, or keep Gauthier and take away his power to make any moves without ownership consent until you have the guy to replace him. I Gauthier feels his position is threatened, like it has been all year, he will make bad decisions to save his job, like he has already done.

The Kaberle for Spacek trade was a simple, player for player swap. I'm on board with it, worse we did was take on a little more money for more years. The Cammalleri trade is different. I do agree after his lackluster performance and his comments to the media, something needed to be done. I'm OK with him being traded, what I'm not OK with is the manner of the trade. You have arguably the highest value player on our roster not being shopped around. That tells you what kind of GM we have in charge. A smart GM will try to get the highest value out of a trade, as the saying goes, the winner of a trade is the team that gets the better player. With this trade, and alot of previous trades we lost out. When you want to get rid of a player like Cammalleri, not shopping him around is irresponsible to say the least.

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A smart GM will try to get the highest value out of a trade, as the saying goes, the winner of a trade is the team that gets the better player.

Which we won't know until that 2nd rounder either plays for us or is flipped to another team for another player. We'll see exactly what happens by 2016 with this trade.

Either way, we got a guy who produced at a very similar rate to Cammalleri over the past couple seasons, is $3M cheaper, bigger, and a 2nd rounder. AT LEAST we got a roster player and a draft pick. We got more in return for Cammalleri than we did for Halak. The only difference is that Cammalleri is a proven impact player. He will most probably play much better in Calgary alongside Iginla and Jokinen, but so what.

The ONLY thing I don't like about this trade was that it was made DURING a game. WTf kind of joke is that? Do it before, do it after, not during for ######s sake.

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Pretty sure we got Eller for Halak. I would consider that a pretty good deal. A goalie who wouldn't resign as long as Price was still on the roster for an up and coming center who's offensive game was put aside to fill the coach's demands. Sure he may be a stronger defensive player now, but in my opinion he has the best stickwork of anyone on the roster. We need a coach willing to let Eller flourish offensively and he'll be a solid second line center on any team.

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Trade this player for that.... sign that player for this amount....draft this player this coming summer......bollocks....

When the city is on fire and the walls are being torn down ( as is happening right now ), there can be only one successful response. Put your faith in Leader X and count on him to lead the way out. Problem is....there has been no Leader X in montreal since the 70s. What we lack is strong leadership. We don't have any - none.

This franchise needs someone right now with the following skills:

- knows the game

- has a long term plan

- has the courage to stick to his long term plan despite incessant whining from those who prefer instant results

- can tell the local media (presstitutes) to F off and get away with it

- has the backing of fans and players

What I'm getting at is a rebuild under new management. There are certain elements already in place that should be kept (Price, Eller, Subban, Pacioretty, Gorges) but our team comprises a lot of castaways. That is undeniable.

What frustrates me is the automatic assumption that Mtl fans will not tolerate a rebuild process. As far as I'm concerned, the fans are way too intelligent to automatically reject a rebuild. We've been waiting a long time to see a contender (almost 20 years)....waiting an extra 3-5 is like spitting in the ocean now. And besides, understanding the process and watching a team build up its youth is exciting to watch. I almost feel a tinge of jealousy watching the Oilers now. It must be great to be one of their fans.

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I agree, The key to the next GM is that he must

a) have that credibility that gets the media off his back at first.

b) crave the spotlight

c) be willing to tell the media to screw off when necessary.

Burke is a blowhard, but I think we need someone like that in Montreal to deal with this crap.

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I agree, The key to the next GM is that he must

a) have that credibility that gets the media off his back at first.

b) crave the spotlight

c) be willing to tell the media to screw off when necessary.

Burke is a blowhard, but I think we need someone like that in Montreal to deal with this crap.

Sounds like Roy :P

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I agree, The key to the next GM is that he must

a) have that credibility that gets the media off his back at first.

b) crave the spotlight

c) be willing to tell the media to screw off when necessary.

Burke is a blowhard, but I think we need someone like that in Montreal to deal with this crap.

Burke is a blowhard. Maybe. But he did what I think Montreal needs to do. He targeted a player, made a ridiculous offer, got his man and built his team around him (Kessel). While Montreal takes two steps forward and three back, Toronto is slowly building a good, talented group. Incidentally, compare the careers of Kessel and Plekanec. Should we get two firsts and a 2nd for Plex? I'd settle for two firsts. I suspect, though, that since it's Gauthier, we might get a role player and a 2nd. At least, that's what it feels like every time Montreal makes a trade in the past, oh, decade or so.

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Actually, zumpano's criteria describe Bob Gainey to a 'T.' He brought EXACTLY those qualities. Which just goes to show that there's no magic bullet.

Montreal will not tolerate a rebuild. Cripes, we can't even tolerate an extended slump without firing coaches: no one has lasted more than 2 1/2 years in what, 15 years?

Meanwhile, I still don't see PG as terrible, although he certainly has set the team back in terms of organizational culture by doing weird things like leaving Cunney out to dry, firing Pearn then Martin, trading Cammy during a game, etc.. Vancouver radio legend Don Taylor was on today defending the trade from Montreal's standpoint, but mocking the organization for acting like the Columbus Bluejackets. 'Are these the Montreal canadiens??' he asked, aghast. Which shows both how well regarded we've become and how badly that rep is being damaged by the chaos at the top. Nonetheless, his moves remain mostly sensible. The problem isn't that he's made huge mistakes, it's the lingering sense that he could have done better,

But it might be worth sweeping clean just to kind of restore order and hit 'reset.' I don't trust Roy not to immolate in the job, but at least he'd bring immense presence and stature. But I still want to know why nobody mentions Carbo as a GM (not coach).

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Burke is a blowhard. Maybe. But he did what I think Montreal needs to do. He targeted a player, made a ridiculous offer, got his man and built his team around him (Kessel). While Montreal takes two steps forward and three back, Toronto is slowly building a good, talented group. Incidentally, compare the careers of Kessel and Plekanec. Should we get two firsts and a 2nd for Plex? I'd settle for two firsts. I suspect, though, that since it's Gauthier, we might get a role player and a 2nd. At least, that's what it feels like every time Montreal makes a trade in the past, oh, decade or so.

I want a person with the personality of Burke; but I disagree with Burke's method.

Yes, hes done all those things, but the way he's built his team, I don't think they have the assets to take the steps between playoff contender and cup contender. He's backed himself into a corner cap wise, gave away Seguin and Hamilton, the elite young talents they'd want to add to the roster and is still missing key parts such as a number 1 centre.

I dont thnk the future of the Leafs is as rosy as the Toronto media portrays.

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I want a person with the personality of Burke; but I disagree with Burke's method.

Yes, hes done all those things, but the way he's built his team, I don't think they have the assets to take the steps between playoff contender and cup contender. He's backed himself into a corner cap wise, gave away Seguin and Hamilton, the elite young talents they'd want to add to the roster and is still missing key parts such as a number 1 centre.

I dont thnk the future of the Leafs is as rosy as the Toronto media portrays.

Toronto won't be anything more than a playoff contender for the forseeable future. But that's what it has been here for MOST of the last 20 years. I had high hopes after the 07-08 season.We don't need a rebuild or tank,just a competent management to make the right moves to adapt to the NHL.Overhaul the defense,go after Gleason hard in UFA this summer,and another tough stay at home dman.And accumulate as many picks as possible for our UFA's

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Toronto won't be anything more than a playoff contender for the forseeable future. But that's what it has been here for MOST of the last 20 years. I had high hopes after the 07-08 season.We don't need a rebuild or tank,just a competent management to make the right moves to adapt to the NHL.Overhaul the defense,go after Gleason hard in UFA this summer,and another tough stay at home dman.And accumulate as many picks as possible for our UFA's

I don't want Burke... I don't like many of Burke's moves.. including the Kessel trade, signing Komisarek and Connolly, and others. I think his moves are overrated.

I think we need a guy like Burke in personality only.... who isn't afraid to tell the media to go to hell, who isn't afraid of making unpopular decisions, etc.... but someone who is a smarter hockey guy.

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I want a person with the personality of Burke; but I disagree with Burke's method.

Yes, hes done all those things, but the way he's built his team, I don't think they have the assets to take the steps between playoff contender and cup contender. He's backed himself into a corner cap wise, gave away Seguin and Hamilton, the elite young talents they'd want to add to the roster and is still missing key parts such as a number 1 centre.

I dont thnk the future of the Leafs is as rosy as the Toronto media portrays.

In Burke's defense, he gave away the picks for those players at the beginning of the year. I doubt he had any intention for them to be a top 10 pick. In retrospect he probably would have forgone Kessel if he knew it was for Seguin and Hamilton.

I think Burke's strongest asset in Toronto is his faith in Wilson. He's backed Wilson since day 1 and never backed down. Sure it looked bleak for WIlsone a few times but I bet Burke, and alot of Toronto fans, are happy he didn't just ditch his coach because of pressure. Thats what Montreal really needs. Management with a plan, let the media know the plan, hire coaching staff that will see the plan through think and thin.

PG is too much about trying to please everyone without reguard of whats going on on the ice. Got rid of Cammalleri because of his comments, whether he'll admit it or not, reinforcing the trade saying it was becuase we need a player to score goals in the dirty areas. Didn't we sign Cole for that? Hasn't every person watching a Habs game in the last 3 years been saying that?

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Wilson is not a good coach for Toronto and their terrible defence when it's supposedly filled with "potential top four defencemen" is kind of proof of that. Toronto can get the goals but they continue to rely on goaltending performances to get out of holes that their blueline creates. Plus they have next to zero penalty killers in their roster and even worse they have no real shut down line. They continue to rely on hot lines. It's why they are struggling right now.

Burke is the kind of guy who sticks by his word and I don't necessarily want that, to be honest. He stuck by his terrible goalie in Vancouver and it burned the Canucks. He stuck by giving Bryzgalov a new home no matter what and ended up putting him on waivers when he didn't have to. He's completely unwilling to put out an offer sheet on a player because he bitched about teams doing it.

Roy sounds like the perfect GM but who knows. What I want first and foremost is a smart hockey mind who doesn't budge for it based on what the media tells him. Only what his staff tells him. I'd rather that than someone who fights the media.

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If anything I would love to see Roy for pure entertainment value. He would give the Canadiens an identity again.

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Wilson is not a good coach for Toronto and their terrible defence when it's supposedly filled with "potential top four defencemen" is kind of proof of that. Toronto can get the goals but they continue to rely on goaltending performances to get out of holes that their blueline creates. Plus they have next to zero penalty killers in their roster and even worse they have no real shut down line. They continue to rely on hot lines. It's why they are struggling right now.

Burke is the kind of guy who sticks by his word and I don't necessarily want that, to be honest. He stuck by his terrible goalie in Vancouver and it burned the Canucks. He stuck by giving Bryzgalov a new home no matter what and ended up putting him on waivers when he didn't have to. He's completely unwilling to put out an offer sheet on a player because he bitched about teams doing it.

Roy sounds like the perfect GM but who knows. What I want first and foremost is a smart hockey mind who doesn't budge for it based on what the media tells him. Only what his staff tells him. I'd rather that than someone who fights the media.

Absolutely... I don't want a Burke clone. There are aspects of Burke that are bad and that I think make him ineffective as a GM.

Lets remember, we've heard all year about how good these Leafs are from the media and their fans, and yet they sit on the outside looking in of the playoffs today as well. Burke has been GM of the team since December 2008. He has watched his team miss the playoffs all three springs he's been there. This could be the fourth. People talk about 5 years as a long rebuild.... its year 4 and Burke might not even make the playoffs yet. Thats not good.

What I do like about Burke and I hope we copy in our new GM is not that he fights the media, its that he doesn't give a **** what the media tells him. He has a plan and he's gonna do that plan come hell or high water. If Cammalleri was a Burke player, he would have defended the player publically, while talking to him about it privately. A guy like Burke also never would have allowed Molson to issue the language press release on Cunneyworth, nor would he have apologized for hiring him. He wouldn't bow to the media pressure like that.

People forget that Phil Kessel had worse words for Ron Wilson last year than Cammalleri did this year, and nothing came of it. It was a 2 day story and then it died. Why, cause Burke didn't allow it to get out of hand, by defending both his coach and his player.

This isn't to say Burke is perfect, but he's got some good qualities.

===========================

The other thing Burke is able to do, is make himself the centre of attention for the media. In this way he's able to take a lot of the focus and pressure and deflect it off the players and the coach and put it back on himself. This is really valuable for the team especially in a media market like Toronto.

There is a reason Burke fights with the media, its actually helpful to his team; so when the media goes off, they go off on him and entirely on him, not on the players.

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Under the assumption the media relations stay as they are now under a new GM. I would rather see Vinnie Damphousse as a GM and St. Pat as the coach.

Why?

bcuz Vinnie could do his thing on the 7th (he is a very smart hockey man + can get respect when need be + doesn't seem to mind the camera.+ worked on the last CBA) and probably make maybe a dozen more camera shows then PG a year. and

St Pat could be infront of media all day, he loves it. He can coach or so it seems. If up to me to choose between rookie NHL GMs...

I pick Damphousse.

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I'm oddly in favour of Damphousse.

Despite having no real experience, I don't think he's said one thing I've disagreed with about the Habs.

He'd also have the balls to hire the best coach, language be damned.

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Damphousse and Roy? Feels like 93...

Its a sign. This must come to pass.

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Trade Kostitsyn, Weber & Nokelainen to NYI for Matt Moulson & P.A Parenteau. Then trade Kaberle & Palushai to Edmonton for L. Smid. Trade Campolli for a pick once Markov gets back. We look like this Desharnais, Pacoiretty, Cole- Plekanec, Bourque, Parenteau- Gomez, Moulson, Moen- Eller, White, Blunden (Darche)

D- Suppan-Smid

Georges- Markov

Gill Diaz & Emelin

Edited by peihabs11

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