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Cammalleri Traded to Calgary

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This comment is not related to the trade, per se, but rather the circumstances behind the trade and the collection of "incidents" to which we have been exposed this season in Montreal:

Is there a way someone can photoshop a really good pair of Mickey Mouse ears on the Habs logo?

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A couple of points:

  • Trade is not brutally one sided, but it is probably a win for Calgary
  • Bourque is too much like AK. Great when he shows up, but goes absent. Contrast this with a guy like Cole who brings it every night. We need more Coles. Boston is full of Coles... So this worries me about the chemistry. People will be all excited when he goes on a 5 game scoring streak, but then we will watch 10 mediocre games and wonder.... I look forward to the threads. :)
  • Even Bob McK. finds the story from PG that this was in the works for a month as stretching belief. He is not surprised that that may have talked a month ago (probably before the JM firing), but that doesn't mean he was actively working a trade that just happened to come together after Cammy spoke out... this was clearly a last minute burst of discussion and decision less then 24 hours after the incident with Cammy.. rarely the way to get the best trade... his view.. Feaster pounced to get the guy he wanted and get rid of the guy he didn't.
  • It takes time to shop a player around. You don't do it in a day. I bet even some GMs that were thinking of calling were still in internal discussions on what they might offer. PG has to learn some patience.
  • When you compare goal production, remember that analyst expects Cammy to pick up the pace with Iginla... I would expect Bourque to score less on the habs...

There is no way of knowing how Bourque will play in Montreal i mean when Cole was in Carolina he wasn't exactly staple of constant play. The guy never reached 30, saw little of no powerplay time despite playing with an almos 100 points per season player.

Secondly Bourque almost never played with Iginla. He was used primarily on th second and sometimes 3rd lines so Iginla have very little impact except for occasional PP time.

As for patience Feaster said it himself that the talks were more than a month in the making. There were also reports that Cammallari was being shopped in the off season. Not sure if Gauthier didn;t call all GM's becomes of the limited NTC of Cammalleri or if he just didn't want to trade him to the East. 2 sirs reported that Cammallari was also ebing shopped for Derek Brassard but that deal fell through.....again these talks were not all of a sudden but on going.

I won't defend Gauthier because generally dislike the guy but I generally like this trade.

Bourqu will be a 3rd line player for us, I think he'll replace AK46 and we'll try to find a solution for one of the top lines.

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This comment is not related to the trade, per se, but rather the circumstances behind the trade and the collection of "incidents" to which we have been exposed this season in Montreal:

Is there a way someone can photoshop a really good pair of Mickey Mouse ears on the Habs logo?

This is part of my issue to. If the habs had to make a move this year, they found the least classy and most douchy way to do it. It makes the organziation look like panicked idiots. I feel we are back in the mess we were in when we had to bring Gainey back, just to get some credibility. We might not have liked some of his hockey moves, but he didn't embarass us on a weekly basis.

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As for production over the last 2.5

Nearly every player under JM's system has produced less than he did on his previous team, and nearly every player that left produced more outside Montreal.

I still like JM and still think he was a big reason for our success, and being 3-8-0 since he was fired doesn't change my opinion on that... but I do think he sacrificed offensive production for wins.

I think you can't look at Cammy's production without that in mind, and without realizing there is a good chance he produces more elsewhere.

Meanwhile, our team isnt exactly breaking out the goals under Cunneyworth, so I'm guessing Bourque's production may fall in Montreal.

This track record shouldn''t be brushed aside so lightly

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There is no way of knowing how Bourque will play in Montreal i mean when Cole was in Carolina he wasn't exactly staple of constant play. The guy never reached 30, saw little of no powerplay time despite playing with an almos 100 points per season player.

Secondly Bourque almost never played with Iginla. He was used primarily on th second and sometimes 3rd lines so Iginla have very little impact except for occasional PP time.

As for patience Feaster said it himself that the talks were more than a month in the making. There were also reports that Cammallari was being shopped in the off season. Not sure if Gauthier didn;t call all GM's becomes of the limited NTC of Cammalleri or if he just didn't want to trade him to the East. 2 sirs reported that Cammallari was also ebing shopped for Derek Brassard but that deal fell through.....again these talks were not all of a sudden but on going.

I won't defend Gauthier because generally dislike the guy but I generally like this trade.

Bourqu will be a 3rd line player for us, I think he'll replace AK46 and we'll try to find a solution for one of the top lines.

Let me quote Bob...

"And I can tell you there are a number of NHL GMs who had no idea Montreal was prepared to trade Cammalleri. This was not a player who was shopped around the league. Could Gauthier have gotten more elsewhere or driven up the price? Maybe, but it's conceivable he didn't want anybody else and only had eyes for Bourque. Fine, because that's how he'll be judged and judged he will be."

The best you can say is that we were targetting Bourque, which was the excuse in the Halak trade to. Remember PG saying how he knew what he wanted, Eller, and he went out and got him. He acted like Halak was trade bait. Now I am to assume that we were trying to get Bourque and finally won him by offering Cammy? LOL

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This is part of my issue to. If the habs had to make a move this year, they found the least classy and most douchy way to do it. It makes the organziation look like panicked idiots. I feel we are back in the mess we were in when we had to bring Gainey back, just to get some credibility. We might not have liked some of his hockey moves, but he didn't embarass us on a weekly basis.

I guess Cammy shouldn't have played since the first of Dec. when they first started to work on the deal. What if the deal wasn't finished during the game, but next week, should have cammy played last night? Maybe we should make a rule that a GM can't make a deal while the team is playing? Get over it. As for Bob Gainey, there is no proof out there that he is not still pulling the strings. Furthermore I would content that he is the chief architect of our predicament.

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After thinking about it, I call BS on other GMs not knowing. Reflecting back, it appears widely known Cammalleri was one of the players that had "quit" on JM. So, on the surface, I could easily buy PG's assertion that a deal for Cammy has been in progress for, oh, a month. Carriere on the bench played a role as well, I'm sure. But you've got a player who had tuned out one coach and was well on his way (if he hadn't already) tuned out coach #2 by complaining about ice time.

I'd say that Cammy spouting off served as the tipping point, and PG simply revisited talks he had been having with Calgary to move things along. Finalized DURING a game, however is odd. I would've thought if something was imminent, they would have sat him out entirely and not left the team short handed on the bench.

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The Habs are making all the wrong moves similar to the leafs in the early 80s. I dont think Montreal will be much for many years to come. Thats really bad for hockey in Canada. The Habs were the only "real team" in Canada for a long time. Cammy was the heart of this team and now they have ripped it out. Combine this with the french fans calling for more french players and the firing of a decent coach and you have an organization in disaray and will be losing for a long time. Too bad.

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huzer, you make an interesting point. If other GMs claim to be totally floored at the Habs moving Cammy, then you can argue that THEY weren't doing their jobs. Montreal has been in melt-down mode for months and anyone interested in Cammalleri should at least have made meaningful inquiries. It was obvious something was going to happen eventually.

I remember one time when a player many fans and media coveted - I forget who, it might have been Kyle MacLaren - was traded and they asked Houle why he hadn't made an offer. His response was that he hadn't even known the guy was available. Everyone took that as proof of Houle's incompetence. So the same argument could be directed to the GMs now (apparently) expressing surprise.

12 hours later my view hasn't changed: should have gotten more, but what we did get isn't terrible, and the direction of the trade is exactly that which fans have been calling for: get bigger, free up cap space, stockpile picks and good young assets. Hard to be too enthused but a deal that will require patience and a longer-term view to fully assess.

EDIT: excellent, way-above-the-norm analysis from Bob McKenzie: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=384950 This should be required reading for any fans when it comes to this trade.

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Putting aside what we as fans think was potential market value, I'm nearly over my initial shock of the deal and have moved towards acceptance. I'm not ready to say this was a pure salary dump (it wasn't), but to free up salary, the Habs were obviously going to have to take back a potentially "lower" quality player. Cammy was/is very one dimensional. That one dimension was rather exciting when it was put to use, but it hasn't been. Cammy was paid like a 40 goal scorer, and I just don't think he is that potential, especially in Montreal. The Habs traded a potential 30-35 guy making $6M for a 25-30 (hopefully) player at $3.3M. The downgrade here really isn't that significant. Add in that the Habs got modestly larger and that helps.

People make too much of size = grit/toughness. Toughness, for hockey, also equates to how easily players get knocked off the puck. Size can help in that matter to not be moved off the puck so easily. Granted Cammalleri was never really in the dirty areas to get moved off the puck. He tended to wait to get fed. I won't admit to knowing a ton about Bourque, but from what I hear, he's more willing to get dirty. Add in a 2nd rounder to sweeten the deal and it just adds to the salary dump.

So, taking the whacky way it was done, and the names involved, break it into numbers/stats to remove a little emotion:

$6M 50pt forward (potentially more). 5"9 190lbs + random overseas goalie + 5th rounder for $3.3M 50pt forward (eh, 50 seems about right) 6'2" 213lbs + random prospect + 2nd rounder.

It doesn't seem like a bad trade to me, now. I still don't agree with the mid-game goofiness of it all, though. I'm also starting to wonder if, unfortunately, PG has a longer leash than I'd like.

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There is a difference between "Cammy might be available" and "I am currently taking offers"...

Typically, GMs get a fax saying player X or a number of players are available and if you want to make an offer, we are listening. This apparently didn't happen. This is a mistake, imo. Most analysts I have heard have made the same comment. He wasn't shopped around. You can't expect GMs to cold call you every day asking if so and so is on the block. If you decided to make a trade, you get it out their with them. This is pretty standard stuff.

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This trade makes sense on many levels. My only worry is Bourque's supposed up and down attitude, but even then he's managed to put up consistently good goal totals. Obviously the size is a plus, not to mention he uses it well. Frees up a lot of cap room and we also get a 2nd rounder? In no way is this deal as one-sided as the TSN talking heads claim.

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I don't think it's that bad a deal either. I do think PG could have gotten a first if he added something else to another team but that is me speculating.

To Huzer's point, PG may have been told to fix the problem if he wants to keep his job.

I think in reality he is taking AK46 spot. Which to me means they are actually saving 6 mill between Cammy and Ak46 and the addition of bourque. Obviously with some dmen departing soon and probably Moen, they will have additional cap space for raises and trying to land a #1 center.

I am thinking that as part of the new cba agreement there will be a buyout period and Gomez's contract will be gone as well.

I certainly hope PG is speaking to some coaches, getting a direction for what type of team to ice next year. A top 5 pick this year would be a nice bonus.

I think he has to make some offers to land a big time center like Getlaf or someone similar. To a lesser degree maybe an Umberger type guy.

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What a sweet deal, i was thinking Semin or Setagouchi, but this is much better than i could of hoped for, a 25+ goal guy at 1/2 price of the one sent packing, dont let the door hit your..... and a 2nd rounder,

Just a super fit and exact player Habs need and 27 goals in each of last 2 years and same pace again (not that it is vital this year), Plekanec must just have a big smile on his face right now i bet!

A Cole clone?

With Spacek and Butternuts sent packing, i dont know if i could ask for much more from Gauthier? Gill, Moan, Campoli and Weber for a bunch more 2nd rounders i suppose.

And to top of trade, the Habs kicked ass all game long vs the "Super Team" and Mr.Subban was just awesome, loved it, just a fun game and could he have smiled anymore while pissing off the whole Bruin team and everyone else in the building and New England. Just a treat to see a NHL player seriously having fun and enjoying himself out there. If his brothers and cousin have a similar attitude, i am all for Gauthier drafting each one as the come up for draft.

And Gorges blocking shot after shot, loved it.

Had a great laugh at all the Toronto experts take on the trade, was exact same take as with halak trade, just too funny.

Dosent seem a bright move by Calgary but are that desparate to make the playoffs just this year i guess, a bit short sighted i think but miracles happen, especially with Kipper between the pipes.

Keep on same track Mr Gauthier, tis a good start and your doing dandy so far, with a vet puck moving d-man (who again had another point last night) signed long term at reasonable cost for a washed up Spacek, Gorges signing and a big western canadian winger signed at reasonable cost long term and extra pick next year.

All is right in Habland this morning.

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What a bizarre season so far. The Pearn firing, the game day/before Xmas Martin firing, and now this during the game trade. It's not that I have a problem with any of the moves in hockey terms. But, the organization looks bad. The Toronto media types are just loving this. I hope that second round pick and additional cap space can be flipped for something good, and make this a Philly style rebuild on the fly. All I ask is that whatever happens next, can it be done with some class? I mean, act like you've been there before Mr. Gauthier, and more importantly, Mr. Molson.

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This might be fair value today.

But if the same trade was offered for Cammalleri one year ago, would we have done it?

I don't think we would have, and thats why I hate selling the guy at his lowest possible value.

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This might be fair value today.

But if the same trade was offered for Cammalleri one year ago, would we have done it?

I don't think we would have, and thats why I hate selling the guy at his lowest possible value.

That's true. But a year ago you probably thought we had a good team. I know it is painfull, but we got to move on.

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That's true. But a year ago you probably thought we had a good team. I know it is painfull, but we got to move on.

I just like the buy low, sell high approach to managing assets, and this feels like Selling Low. In fact it feels like selling at rock bottom given the season he's had and comments made.

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The little Ive seen of Cammy this year was horrible. Id take Darche any day over what cammy brought. Now that we actually got something for him AND got rid of his 6M/year contract is great. Id say Cammy's contract was even worse than Gomez's.

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This might be fair value today. But if the same trade was offered for Cammalleri one year ago, would we have done it? I don't think we would have, and thats why I hate selling the guy at his lowest possible value.

I don't know when this team is going to stop trading their players at the lowest value. One of the call ins on the radio had the funniest comment (another flames fan who was thrilled with this deal). Comment was "you, never, ever, ever trade a player at his lowest value, unless of course your name is Jimmy Rutherford and you get a call from Pierre Gauthier."

Three things to keep in mind about those that are thrilled we got Bourque are even satisfied with this deal.

1) He has not been the same since his injury a year or two ago - no longer has the speed he once did.

2) Calgary plays a much more offensive style then the habs. Even with sutter as the coach, their Defense sucks and Bourque is as lazy as Cammy in the beckchecking department. Even Glencross scored over 20 goals here and he would have Moen type numbers (last year's moen) on Montreal. I can't see him scoring 20 goals.

3) Bourque is not an upgrade over AK46. This trade signals to me that we lost two scorers. And are most likely going to be filling them with downgrades for both both players.

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That's true. But a year ago you probably thought we had a good team. I know it is painfull, but we got to move on.

Do you actually think we are really better off with Bourque??? Bourque maybe be bigger, but he doesn't play "big" all the time. People here criticize Ak46 for not producing every game. At least he is still physical most nights. Bourque has a tendency to disapear completely. he is also a guy not well liked by teammates. Did you see the elbow he got suspended for. It wasn't even a physical play. It was just a lazy, dirty hit, like the one that Steckl gave Crosby.

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At first I hated this deal, and after hearing the commments on TV from so called experts I hated it even more. One analyst asked how we were going to replace Cammy's numbers.

In a nutshell, we just got bigger, got a player who's goals per game over the past 3 years are very very similar to Cammalleri's, is a big body who can go to the net for us, and is $3 million a year cheaper.

I loved it when we picked up Cammalleri but the past year and half have not been very good at all. He did not help us much at all.

He's only had one 39 goal season and has declined every year since.

We also picked up a 2nd rounder and a prospect, while only giving up a 5th and a KHL guy we'll never use.

I still want a new GM but the more I looked at this trade the more I liked it. I guess now we just have to wait and see.

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I just like the buy low, sell high approach to managing assets, and this feels like Selling Low. In fact it feels like selling at rock bottom given the season he's had and comments made.

That is why we need to move Moen this year instead of trying to resign him. I think we can fill his position with another UFA at the end of the season. At the deadline he potentially can bring a 2nd rounder. IMO opinion that is another reason to resign AK46 - the return for him is not going to be as good as what AK46 brings to to the table.

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At first I hated this deal, and after hearing the commments on TV from so called experts I hated it even more. One analyst asked how we were going to replace Cammy's numbers. In a nutshell, we just got bigger, got a player who's goals per game over the past 3 years are very very similar to Cammalleri's, is a big body who can go to the net for us, and is $3 million a year cheaper. I loved it when we picked up Cammalleri but the past year and half have not been very good at all. He did not help us much at all. He's only had one 39 goal season and has declined every year since. We also picked up a 2nd rounder and a prospect, while only giving up a 5th and a KHL guy we'll never use. I still want a new GM but the more I looked at this trade the more I liked it. I guess now we just have to wait and see.

And you don't think Bourque's numbers will decline when he comes from calgary to montreal like Cammy's numbers declined???

This is gainey's fault for acquiring Gomez and signing Cammy after already deciding to go with JM as his coach. You have to have players that suit a system and right from the start JM was the square peg trying to drive his system into a round hole.

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I hate the salary cap. But one exists, and I like the money this trade free's up. If Bourque continues to be a 20-25 goal man, we're in good shape. We have too many cream puffs. He get's those dirty goals.

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