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Cammalleri Traded to Calgary


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I'm OK with this trade. Cammy was great with that one timer in the slot, and in the playoffs he was our best player (excluding Halak that one time... ). I'll definitely miss that. But i won't miss his regular season play, his size, or his soft and ineffectual play as of late. I won't miss that cap hit, either.

I also don't know Bourque all that well, but at almost half a foot taller, occasionally laying the body, scoring dirty, perimeter Erik Cole goals - and stating somewhere that Montreal is where he'd want to be (BS or not) is nice to hear.

The picks also help. 2 for a 5. I'm not putting too much into the prospect. 9th in WHL scoring as a 4th year player. Hmm maybe there's something there. Let's see what he does in Hamilton next year. Is he signed?

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In the last 15 years, there have been only 4 players who have scored 30 or more goals for the habs. Kovy, Ryder (twice), Zednik and Rechhi. I think this is an indictment more on management of the te

moving cammi was NOT the answer. I'm not expecting a good return - sure hope I'm wrong.

Cammy scored 39 in Calgary. 27 goals in Calgary translates to around 15 or 17 in Montreal. AK46 scored playing as 3rd/4th liner for two years. Bourque's production was on the 1st/2nd line, playing

One thing on the "GM who didn't know Cammy was available"

Cammy had a partial NTC where he couldn't be traded to 7 teams.

What if that GM is from one of those 7 teams?

That's a very good point. It seems sometimes that we are inclined to consider trades like this as if we had, ourselves just decided to pull them out of a hat impulsively.

This deal was on the table for some time. Once again, I can't judge it. I don't know enough, but I'm pretty sure that the Goat isn't exactly brand new at this game. I would expect that most of the things that occur to a dullard like me would be "like...duhhhh" to him.

I sure miss the dazzle of Cammy though. Good luck Cammy and thanks for the wonderful excitement!

Now let's all say a little prayer...

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I'm not putting too much into the prospect. 9th in WHL scoring as a 4th year player. Hmm maybe there's something there. Let's see what he does in Hamilton next year. Is he signed?

Not signed yet, though I can't imagine we'd trade for a player we weren't going to sign.

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Sorry to spam the thread with so many posts, but I keep finding interesting tidbits about the trade.

A tweet from Patrick Holland:

PattyShwayz Patrick Holland

Guess it's time to thank my parents for putting me in 9 years of french immersion. Hoping I can please the @CanadiensMTL fans someday.

http://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/of0bh/iama_patrick_holland_who_was_just_traded_to_the/

He answers a lot of questions about... well, who he is.

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I'm OK with this trade. Cammy was great with that one timer in the slot, and in the playoffs he was our best player (excluding Halak that one time... ). I'll definitely miss that. But i won't miss his regular season play, his size, or his soft and ineffectual play as of late. I won't miss that cap hit, either.

I also don't know Bourque all that well, but at almost half a foot taller, occasionally laying the body, scoring dirty, perimeter Erik Cole goals - and stating somewhere that Montreal is where he'd want to be (BS or not) is nice to hear.

The picks also help. 2 for a 5. I'm not putting too much into the prospect. 9th in WHL scoring as a 4th year player. Hmm maybe there's something there. Let's see what he does in Hamilton next year. Is he signed?

Hey I liked Bourque two years ago, but he really has not been a guy who puts forth an honest effort - much like Cammy. I have been saying we should move Cammy, but IMO, he was the best chance of getting a 1a/2 type of centre (ie. top level prospect). Instead we get a guy we are going to be rolling the dice on.

There are too many IFS with Bourque. This can be a good deal:

-IF his injuries haven't impacted his speed the way it looks like they have

-IF he learned something of the negative press he got in Calgary

-IF he figured out that constant effort is required and necessary for him to be effective

-IF he learns from his selfish penalties and suspensions, but like MaxPac figures out how to be physical without being afraid to get suspended (unlike MaxPac, his suspensions were for clearly blatent cheap shots out of laziness)

-IF he can translate his 27 goals in clagary to at least 20-22 goals in Montreal

If all the IF work in the habs favor, then they won't do too badly with this deal. But this deal will always represent what could have been.

This still doesn't exonerate PG. Timing of the deal was terrible. Why would you let a guy play when it sounds like the deal was pretty much done that afternoon. Given Cammy's comments, it would have been a perfect excuse to bench him, in case the deal was going to go down. It just makes us look like a classless, reckless franchise that is making rash decisions. Timing of Pearn and JM firing were also terrible.

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I agree 100% ... the value might not be awful.

But the timing and the optics it represents are.

And trading the guy at his lowest possible value is not a very good idea.

that seems to be the modus operandi for the habs.

Its also why we need to start moving guys like Moen close to or at the deadline. His value is never going to be higher. We should also try sheltering Gill - use him in mainly PK situations and limit his 5-5 blunders, on Montreal's TSN radio tonight they were saying Gill could net a 7th round pick. Maybe i'm overvaluing Gill, but typically at the deadline teams give are willing to give up a 2nd/3rd rounder for a shutdown type of defender. Similarly with Moen, the sentiment was he could net a 4th rounder at the deadline. If history has shown anything teams that THINK they may have a shot typically overpay and I don't see why we couldn't get at least a 3rd rounder.

I'm probably in the minority, but I'd also see if Kaberle could fetch a 2nd rounder at the deadline as well. Particularly, If Markov comes back and looks like he is able to take hits and his knee is holding out. I'm getting real tired of the habs having Dman that are one dimensional and need to be sheltered (i.e. Gill - can't really play 5 on 5, Kaberle is a liability 5 on 5, Diaz - size, Weber - size and the way they are developing him, he is being developed as a PP specialist and IMO his development is hampered by having him play forward, campoli - soft puck moving dman who can't play defense).

Of the other guys i'd like to see moved are Campoli and Weber, if we are going to screw around having weber at forward. I think he can be a good #4dman in this league, but I think the habs have done a lousy job on developing him as a dman. I also don't think there is room for Diaz and Weber on the same defense.

If we can get any sort of pick for Darche - move him. I REALLY hope we try HARD to sign AK46 and would only move him if we can't get him signed. I think he is a guy that we should be able to get a good prospect from, if packaged with a guy like Weber - too bad Simmonds is no longer in LA. But I really doubt we will get good value for him and I really think this is a guy who will become a 30-35 goal scorer under a different system. Even another year under Cunneyworth, a more mature Eller and a more offensive linemate to join them, I think AK46 could be a 30-35 goal scorer in Montreal.

No way we are going to make the playoffs. We need to maximize the return on our assets. To this end, one thing that HAS to change, is going into the deadline we NEED to work up an auction for our assets - pit GM's offers against each other, instead of this BS cloak and dagger approach to dealing.

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Does the rest of the team getting bigger matter when your most offensively gifted centremen are under 6'?

Pleks can stay at Centre.

DD needs to become a wing, and another C (one with size) needs to be acquired.

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Pleks can stay at Centre.

DD needs to become a wing, and another C (one with size) needs to be acquired.

Agreed. I've been campaining for that since last spring. He was very effective as winger in the playoffs last year. I really hope they don't move him in the PG's quest to get bigger.

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seems to me that this signals PG has given up on this season. if that's the case, then i hope we go all in (or out as the case may be) and really go for a lottery pick. i certainly don't have any interest in the Maples strategy of finishing 9th or 10th in the conference - either get in the playoffs or miss them by a mile.

only thing is, the last couple of days have made me wonder how negative Cami may have been in the locker-room - and maybe PG HASNT given up, but rather is doing everything he can to MAKE the playoffs, and moving Cami was addition by subtraction!

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I think Gill and Moen will get much better returns than the 7 and 4 that you heard on the radio.... Much much better.... 3 and 2 would be my goals.

I also think Weber should be traded, no place for him. I'd look for 2nd or a prospect.

Campoli gone. get me a 3rd or 4th.

Darche shopped to anyone who will listen for a 7th (though i don't think I'll get it).

I don't think Markov will be back before the deadline... so I don't think you can move Kaberle,

Kaberle has 10 pts in 14 games as a Hab now... I don't even see the point in moving him. You need him to be a plan B if Markov is hurt going forward.

You won't know about Markov pre deadline IMO.

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I think Gill and Moen will get much better returns than the 7 and 4 that you heard on the radio.... Much much better.... 3 and 2 would be my goals.

I also think Weber should be traded, no place for him. I'd look for 2nd or a prospect.

Campoli gone. get me a 3rd or 4th.

Darche shopped to anyone who will listen for a 7th (though i don't think I'll get it).

I don't think Markov will be back before the deadline... so I don't think you can move Kaberle,

Kaberle has 10 pts in 14 games as a Hab now... I don't even see the point in moving him. You need him to be a plan B if Markov is hurt going forward.

You won't know about Markov pre deadline IMO.

I hope so - 2nd and 3rd rounders are what I had in mind. WHen I heard that, i thought what the hell are these guys smoking. I also think Campoli should be able to fetch much higher then the 7th round pick that was being reported in Tuesday.

What really pisses me off is that I thought if we moved either Cammy or Gionga, with the right package, I thought we could have got a high-end center prospect AND a 1st rounder. For Cammy we got a 2nd rounder - which i think will be lower, since I think he will help Calgary and Gionta is done for the year. With DD at around $1M and Gallagher coming up, i really don't think I want two small guys in the top 9 next year (Gionta, DD) and potentially 3 the following year (assuming Gallegher makes it).

One potential deal I was hoping for were Gill and Cammy to Washington (assuming they move Semin to clear cap room) for that russian juniour prospect. I know it would have been a long shot, but given that they need playoff expereince, who knows they may have bit.

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What I'm struggling with at the moment is to stay optomistic about the future. Right now we seem to have no plan going forward. We seem totally reactive in our trades (Kaberle reeks of desparation and now Cammalleri looks a bit the same). We have fired our coach and immediately thrown the replacement under a bus by calling him temporary and saying there will be a bilingual coach next year.

We don't seem to have superstar talent on the farm and the current team are average at best. Throw in the language issue with any future Coach or GM candidate and its hard to imagine why any UFA would choose to come here.

I could handle tanking if there was some sort of plan that the fans could decipher, but at the moment that is not clear at all. (For all his faults, I like the way Burke tells the fans about why he made moves and how they fit into his plan for the Laffs, here we get to work it out as we go along)

Hopefully I am just in a temporary low because my high hopes for the season have crashed and burned. Maybe in the next month or so, ownership either gets behind Gauthier or gets rid of him, but I hope whoever is the GM could at least outline the plan going forward.

PS: I don't really follow the draft prospects that closely, but is the next Crosby, Datsyk or Malkin in next years draft prospects lol?

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We just traded an undersized forward on pace for the worst numbers of his career with a big cap hit for a bigger, meaner player, who has out produced Cammy the last 2 and one-half years and makes less money, and a decent prospect. I don't know what everyone is panicking about. Have you all watched any games this year? I commented a few days ago that the Cammy-Plek_Gionta line looked way undersized, and were not playing well. Well, we just took care of part of that problem. More changes are on the way.

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Well, I'm calming down a little.

We get a 25+ goal-scorer (presumably) with size and a desirable viciousness, a 2nd-round pick in a deep draft, the 9th overall scorer in the WHL, AND $3 million to play with annually. Yeah, we could gotten more, but the latter three elements *are* arguably the sorts of ingredients that characterize a 'retool for the future' kind of deal. In principle, and on reflection, this turns out to be exactly the sort of trade that most fans on this site have clamoured for all season: 'save cap space, get bigger, get young assets, move under-performing duds.'

A sour response is, I think, still appropriate. But patience is also called for here as the full implications will take a while to unfold. Meanwhile, more is to come in terms of dumping bloated contracts - I hope. Great post, and Bob Mackenzie agrees with you, it's as if he copied your thoughts on his TSN blog

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i think after you take out the initial shock of a trade mid game... break down the stats

-bourque's got back to back 27 goal season's and is pretty much on par in his scoring clip overall with camm and has actually out performed him in the last 2 seasons

- he comes over to us and now is 2nd on our team in scoring with 13.. 1 ahead of patches and 3 behind cole

- 6'2" 211 LBS is SIZE!! he's a half foot taller and more then 20lbs heavier then camm! now coupled with patches, cole, moen, kosty, blunden, eller, white all sizeable guys

- we save 3 million in cap space and vertially get the same goal scoring clip but as PG pointed out more of the dirty goals we're lacking

- we swap a 5th for a 2nd pick!!!!

- we trade an asset in ramo with zero chance of making it MTL right now and who's signed in the KHL for another candian kid out west (6'0" 170) canadian invitee... top 10 scorer in the WHL (know nothing else about him)

*** we win the draft pick swap... we trade assets that has no chance with our team we swap the goal scoring prowess at half the cap and still we cant win this trade in the eyes fans!

its a fair swap in my opinion

as for trading low.... if cammellerri had 20 goals right now i highly doubt we trade him... fact is gionta's out for the year we are in 12th place and camm's is clearly underperforming at 6 million a year! this was expected

if we traded camm's for crosby more then half the fan base would sh$t that crosby's done! point being some fans would much rather hate then love

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I think it boils down to this, many fans wanted to keep Cammy as part of the future and in their eyes it wouldn't matter what the return was it wouldn't be enough. I don't think Cammys value would go up much if we had waited till the deadline, in fact the way things were going it may have gone down. When we talk about value, Habs fans are all over the board, but generally overrate their own and underrate everyone else's. I like this trade for many of the reasons that have been brought up, cap space,size,youth,better pick and asset movement to subsequent years. Romo was another asset that was never going to show up here as long as Price was here. I was one that was disappointed when we overlooked Holland in his draft year. I think when we look back at it in a couple three years this deal will looked upon as the start of the turn around.

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A couple of points:

  • Trade is not brutally one sided, but it is probably a win for Calgary
  • Bourque is too much like AK. Great when he shows up, but goes absent. Contrast this with a guy like Cole who brings it every night. We need more Coles. Boston is full of Coles... So this worries me about the chemistry. People will be all excited when he goes on a 5 game scoring streak, but then we will watch 10 mediocre games and wonder.... I look forward to the threads. :)
  • Even Bob McK. finds the story from PG that this was in the works for a month as stretching belief. He is not surprised that that may have talked a month ago (probably before the JM firing), but that doesn't mean he was actively working a trade that just happened to come together after Cammy spoke out... this was clearly a last minute burst of discussion and decision less then 24 hours after the incident with Cammy.. rarely the way to get the best trade... his view.. Feaster pounced to get the guy he wanted and get rid of the guy he didn't.
  • It takes time to shop a player around. You don't do it in a day. I bet even some GMs that were thinking of calling were still in internal discussions on what they might offer. PG has to learn some patience.
  • When you compare goal production, remember that analyst expects Cammy to pick up the pace with Iginla... I would expect Bourque to score less on the habs...

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We just traded an undersized forward on pace for the worst numbers of his career with a big cap hit for a bigger, meaner player, who has out produced Cammy the last 2 and one-half years and makes less money, and a decent prospect. I don't know what everyone is panicking about. Have you all watched any games this year? I commented a few days ago that the Cammy-Plek_Gionta line looked way undersized, and were not playing well. Well, we just took care of part of that problem. More changes are on the way.

I agree with you. Cammy was not producing and cost an arm. The more I thought about it, the more he looked like another Gomez. The difference is that he still had good value (a big surprise to me) and we got something interesting in exchange. Bourque is no Raymond (unfortunately), but he is less expensive and should help. Holland and a 2nd round pick; we'll see what they produce in a year or two.

All in all, I am very satisfied of this trade. Of course, Gauthier might not be there to see how it turns out next year, but at least he did not do anything foolish, potentially breaking the team. It's a good deal.

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