Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[alfredoh2009]

11 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Edmonton was playing RNH with McDavid down the stretch, and that combo was already elite. 

 

Buffalo is not interested in Max, who is UFA in one year.  They are looking long term.  They also already have Reinhart, Nylander, Okposo, on the wings....

Ok, then I would trade down with them swapping 1st in 2018 and sending back Petry and a borderline D like Rielly/Lernout for their 1st and RNH. They are looking for a top D and Nurse/Petry could work. Rielly or Lernout would also solidify a bottom 4 spot for them. With th edraft pick they could get a solid D prospect

 

For the CH, it would get us our our 1C, and it would bring us closer to Veleno as a goos 2C prospect with upside

[Commandant]

They had petry.  They didnt want him

 

They also.are highly unlikely to trade rnh.  I just told you why.

[alfredoh2009]

3 hours ago, Commandant said:

They had petry.  They didnt want him

 

They also.are highly unlikely to trade rnh.  I just told you why.

Ok, I've strucked out on that proposal for RNH or ROR. But I would overpay for D.Strome and draft Zadina or Tkachuk which with Scherbak gives us a couple of top-6 options for a top 6 winger

 

I would keep Patches. So our top 9 would be:

Pacioretty, Strome, Lehkonen,

Scherbak, Drouin, Gallagher,

Byron, Danault, A.Shawn

 

And if we get Tavares, it would become:

Pacioretty, Tavares, Drouin

Scherbak, Strome, Gallagher,

Lehkonen,, Danault, A.Shawn

[DON]

Penner, Vanek and what maybe couple others have had offer sheets as RFAs over the years.

This year they list 293 upcoming RFAs (obviously most are not high quality), how many of those will receive an offer sheet from another team...Zero would be a safe bet, wouldn't it.

 

I still don't understand why every blue chip or elite young RFA doesn't receive numerous offers from opposing teams (if have draft picks, cap room and are looking to win right away). Even if it simply makes an opposing team overpay for their own player, it would be good move.

 

You would think it should be standard practice unless is collusion among the owners, which is illegal I think isn't Commandant?

[Commandant]

Collusion is illegal. 

 

But here is the argument. 

 

1) If i don't overpay, the other team matches...  so I've done nothing but make a rival team sign their player. 

2) if i do overpay, the compensation is based on the AAV.... so I've overpaid in dollars screwing up my cap, and I've overpaid in draft picks, its not good business. 

 

Is it collusion? maybe, but good luck proving it to an arbitrator. 

 

Unless there is a memo or email from the league that leaks one day that says don't sign RFAs, then you can't prove it. 

 

The other issue is that escrow works to make player compensation exactly 50% of HRR, so there is no incentive for the PA to push this.  All it does is shift money from veterans to younger players, but doesn't change the total money paid in the league, so its not in the PA's interest to hurt one group of members to help another. 

[DON]

ok, makes much more sense now, thanks

[Meller93]

12 hours ago, DON said:

ok, makes much more sense now, thanks

I believe the contract Weber is currently on could have been an offer sheet too? Memory might not be serving me right

[Machine of Loving Grace]

There is a real lack of small RFA offers unlike in the 90s. A big part of that is compensation for offering $3.9 million is a 1st and 3rd. I think that's way too high. Until that gets restructured teams won't offer the RFA sheets to the lesser players and only take risks on the bigger ones. Paying a first round pick should start at $5 million. Do that and things would change.

[Link67]

55 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

I believe the contract Weber is currently on could have been an offer sheet too? Memory might not be serving me right

 

 

Ya i'm pretty sure it was Philly's offer sheet that Nashville matched at the time

[Commandant]

54 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

 

Ya i'm pretty sure it was Philly's offer sheet that Nashville matched at the time

 

Yes it was

 

Nash had just lost suter to minny a couple weeks earlier and didnt want to lose both

[Meller93]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Yes it was

 

Nash had just lost suter to minny a couple weeks earlier and didnt want to lose both

And somehow Nashville makes out with Subban from it, never seeing the rough last 3-4 years of the contract

[revvvrob]

11 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

And somehow Nashville makes out with Subban from it, never seeing the rough last 3-4 years of the contract

But if Weber retires before the contract is up, isn’t nashville still on the hook for the cap hit? I thought that was one of the terms of the trade. 

[hab29RETIRED]

5 minutes ago, revvvrob said:

But if Weber retires before the contract is up, isn’t nashville still on the hook for the cap hit? I thought that was one of the terms of the trade. 

It’s not the terms of the trade, but they pick up most of the cap recapture penalties, based on the front end loaded portion they benefited from. Montreal will also have have some recapture as well.

 

frankly, I think philly is the one who should have to pay it, since their the ones who actually negotiated the contract.

[hab29RETIRED]

19 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

And somehow Nashville makes out with Subban from it, never seeing the rough last 3-4 years of the contract

It’s rough now watching the better player on Nashville.

[BCHabnut]

Almost every posititive I've seen pk do this playoff, I've seen an equality and oposite negative. Get an assist.  Rush the puck in and give it away.  Break away goal.  Score a goal.  Late penalty and goal against.  Multiple times.  I sometimes mis him,  but I often don't.  Off the ice, he is a stellar human being, but I really don't miss his on ice drama. It was embarrassing. 

[Habopotamus]

1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

Almost every posititive I've seen pk do this playoff, I've seen an equality and oposite negative. Get an assist.  Rush the puck in and give it away.  Break away goal.  Score a goal.  Late penalty and goal against.  Multiple times.  I sometimes mis him,  but I often don't.  Off the ice, he is a stellar human being, but I really don't miss his on ice drama. It was embarrassing. 

Marc, is that you? 

[Link67]

1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

Almost every posititive I've seen pk do this playoff, I've seen an equality and oposite negative. Get an assist.  Rush the puck in and give it away.  Break away goal.  Score a goal.  Late penalty and goal against.  Multiple times.  I sometimes mis him,  but I often don't.  Off the ice, he is a stellar human being, but I really don't miss his on ice drama. It was embarrassing. 

 

 

The good has always outweighed the bad, it is simply a matter of whether you are the type of person who can handle that type of play style from a Dman or not. His game on the ice has grown and matured since the move to Nashville, you can't take that away from him. He is closer to a complete and dominant player now than he was 2 years ago, whether it was a the smack in the face from the trade, the fact he doesn't have to try to carry that ridiculously good D-Core on his own leading to that growth and maturity, or something else I don't know. But I do know that the PK who is a Norris Trophy nominee this year, is significantly better than the PK who won the Norris earlier in his career.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, Link67 said:

 

 

The good has always outweighed the bad, it is simply a matter of whether you are the type of person who can handle that type of play style from a Dman or not. His game on the ice has grown and matured since the move to Nashville, you can't take that away from him. He is closer to a complete and dominant player now than he was 2 years ago, whether it was a the smack in the face from the trade, the fact he doesn't have to try to carry that ridiculously good D-Core on his own leading to that growth and maturity, or something else I don't know. But I do know that the PK who is a Norris Trophy nominee this year, is significantly better than the PK who won the Norris earlier in his career.

I think a lot of has to do with playing for a legitimate NHL coach instead of a buffoon, who was critical about everything about him (ie low 5 with Price) and would call out Subban repeatedly while giving the majority of  the team a free pass when the they sucked. At some point the player is just going to say screw you and not bother listening.

 

there are three ex-habs on the Nashville blue line and look better than they did in Montreal.

[BCHabnut]

Better team in general I guess.  Three number 1 defenseman.  Emelin and weber healthy scratches yet better than in montreal. Might be a bit more to it than coaching. 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

5 hours ago, Link67 said:

 

 

The good has always outweighed the bad, it is simply a matter of whether you are the type of person who can handle that type of play style from a Dman or not. His game on the ice has grown and matured since the move to Nashville, you can't take that away from him. He is closer to a complete and dominant player now than he was 2 years ago, whether it was a the smack in the face from the trade, the fact he doesn't have to try to carry that ridiculously good D-Core on his own leading to that growth and maturity, or something else I don't know. But I do know that the PK who is a Norris Trophy nominee this year, is significantly better than the PK who won the Norris earlier in his career.

And does the good outweigh the bad with Weber? Doesn’t seem like much of a compliment to say the good outweighs the bad. Weber got injured this year but he’s still a fine player to have on the team in my books.

 

One can say your post wasn’t about Weber at all but the initial comment was that Weber is worse than Subban. 

 

Think about how people would perceive a John Carlson for Dustin Byfuglien trade, or an Eric Karlsson for Brent Burns and this trade isn’t much different. In certain moments the trade will look better for one team than the other but it won’t be a trade that’s permanently bad for one team or the other. There’s the age factor in each of the trades but those impacts are felt years afterward.

[hab29RETIRED]

9 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

And does the good outweigh the bad with Weber? Doesn’t seem like much of a compliment to say the good outweighs the bad. Weber got injured this year but he’s still a fine player to have on the team in my books.

 

One can say your post wasn’t about Weber at all but the initial comment was that Weber is worse than Subban. 

 

Think about how people would perceive a John Carlson for Dustin Byfuglien trade, or an Eric Karlsson for Brent Burns and this trade isn’t much different. In certain moments the trade will look better for one team than the other but it won’t be a trade that’s permanently bad for one team or the other. There’s the age factor in each of the trades but those impacts are felt years afterward.

Carlson and buff aren’t in the same class and yes, Karlsson for Burns would be a horrible trade, for the same reason of Burns being considerably older and Karlsson clearly being the better player, just as Subban is better and younger than Weber.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

There has always been a huge double standard about Subban. Remember the 'controversy' when he scored on the Leafs and clutched the CH on his jersey when celebrating? Well, have a look at goal celebrations nowadays. Crest-clutching galore. The low-fiving with Price is another example of a ridiculous criticism that never would have been made if Subban had been, first, a quiet, personality-free cyborg and, second, white. If Subban did even half the crap Brad Marchand does, he would have been drummed out of the league or given the ol' Chara attempted-murder treatment long ago. But Marchand just gets tut-tutted, because he is a Good Canadian Kid (plus, white!) who just happens to go too far from time to time - poor guy, he needs to be reined in a little. As for on-ice mistakes, yep, PK makes them. And so does everybody else, including star players who are hailed as sublime hockey perfection. Remember Scott Neidermeyer coughing the puck up in OT in the 2010 gold medal game? No one ever mentions that. But if PK does it, hoo boy, that just 'proves' that he is an irresponsible punk. People emphasize PK Subban's mistakes because he is PK Subban, not because he makes hugely more gaffes than other players who eat big minutes and play an assertive game.

 

Weber is an excellent player. But I agree with Habs29 that Subban is a better overall player. Subban is a puck-mover who coordinates the offence and leads the rush, as well as playing a strong D-zone game and bringing a cannon from the point. Weber is a first-pass guy who really brings only the last two elements at an elite level. But, he's a white old-school cyborg, which is what our idiot now-fired coach wanted, so that's all that matters.

 

 

[Habopotamus]

35 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

There has always been a huge double standard about Subban. Remember the 'controversy' when he scored on the Leafs and clutched the CH on his jersey when celebrating? Well, have a look at goal celebrations nowadays. Crest-clutching galore. The low-giving with Price is another example of a ridiculous criticism that never would have been made if Subban had been, first, a quiet, personality-free cyborg and, second, white. If Subban did even half the crap Brad Marchand does, he would have been drummed out of the league or given the ol' Chara attempted-murder treatment long ago. But Marchand just gets tut-tutted, because he is a Good Canadian Kid (plus, white!) who just happens to go too far from time to time - poor guy, he needs to be reined in a little. As for on-ice mistakes, yep, PK makes them. And so does everybody else, including star players who are hailed as sublime hockey perfection. Remember Scott Neidermeyer coughing the puck up in OT in the 2010 gold medal game? No one ever mentions that. But if PK does it, hoo boy, that just 'proves' that he is an irresponsible punk. People emphasize PK Subban's mistakes because he is PK Subban, not because he makes hugely more gaffes than other players who eat big minutes and play an assertive game.

 

Weber is an excellent player. But I agree with Habs29 that Subban is a better overall player. Subban is a puck-mover who coordinates the offence and leads the rush, as well as playing a strong D-zone game and bringing a cannon from the point. Weber is a first-pass guy who really brings only the last two elements at an elite level. But, he's a white old-school cyborg, which is what our idiot now-fired coach wanted, so that's all that matters.

 

 

Not to turn this thread into a P.k, Weber war, but this injury that Weber sustained is going to be an issue this coming season. 

 

A big guy like Weber having basically an entire summer of zero training...

 

This team needs him to he a number one, but I have serious doubts he comes back from surgery and fills that spot. In short order anyways 

 

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Weber could be 100% by fall and have an excellent season. Won't change the fact the club lacks top four puck movers and will be hoping for a big season from... ummm...

 

*looks at the roster for the current flash in the pan defenceman this team is riding their hope on*

 

...Mike Reilly.

[Habopotamus]

2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Weber could be 100% by fall and have an excellent season. Won't change the fact the club lacks top four puck movers and will be hoping for a big season from... ummm...

 

*looks at the roster for the current flash in the pan defenceman this team is riding their hope on*

 

...Mike Reilly.

The defense is a disaster. 

 

Even Price couldn't hide the mistakes last year. 

 

I have no idea what Bergevin's plan is.