Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, illWill said:

Being behind Barkov and Trochek on the depth chart at center had him in a third line role. He's got a great shot and can get to the net. I also don't think we're in a position to be picky on centers 

 

He didn't even play third line centre though.  He got moved to wing. 

[illWill]

9 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I don't think we were ever getting a top potential centre back for Pacioretty after 2016. 

 

Right now the best shot for the club are some prospects that might not be 1A but have that potential. Maybe a PO Joseph from Arizona, Bennett or Jankowski from Calgary, or Borgstrom from Florida.

 

I would be happy with a 1st, Gildon, and Mascherin from Florida or a 1st, Joseph, and Dauphin from Arizona or a 1st, or a 1st, Ruzicka, and Phillips.

 

That's my point, I think people should temper their expectations on a return for Pacioretty. If I am a rival GM and I have a choice between trading a decent high end C/LD or just signing a Neal, Van Riemsdyk, Kane, Nash or Perron for free, I know which option I am choosing. 

 

8 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

He didn't even play third line centre though.  He got moved to wing. 

 

That's my point. He isn't a better center than Barkov or Trochek, so he either has to play third line center or on the wing. It doesn't mean he wouldn't be an upgrade for the Habs down the middle or wouldn't be able to produce there. Bringing in a young big handed right shot who can play center or the wing is a good thing when I look at our current roster of small left hand shots who can't play center. 

[Commandant]

He's big... but he doesn't use his size.  He's soft as butter. 

 

He also didn't produce as a centre... that is why he got moved to wing.  We've seen this story before. 

 

I mean if you could get him cheap, sure... but trading Max for him??  No, I'd need a lot more than that. 

[illWill]

There aren't too many that would produce with the 3rd line wingers that Florida has had the last few years. Now with better players on his line he is producing. 

 

Big also doesn't necessarily mean physical. Big is big and the Habs need a different look

[Commandant]

Yup, need more big guys like McCarron and De la Rose.

 

 

Tampa has not one forward on their roster who is taller than 6'1", how is that working out?  They also have a number of very small forwards like Point, Gourde, Johnson, Kucherov, Callahan all 5'10 or smaller.

[illWill]

39 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Yup, need more big guys like McCarron and De la Rose.

 

 

Tampa has not one forward on their roster who is taller than 6'1", how is that working out?  They also have a number of very small forwards like Point, Gourde, Johnson, Kucherov, Callahan all 5'10 or smaller.

 

Let's just site examples of big guys who suck and small guys who don't. 

 

Are you happy with the current configuration of this Habs team? You don't want to trade Pacioretty for a young right hand center on a decent contract, you don't want to trade the draft pick for a center, don't want to draft a center. You must be just delighted going into next season with our team as it stands. 

[Commandant]

5 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

Let's just site examples of big guys who suck and small guys who don't. 

 

Are you happy with the current configuration of this Habs team? You don't want to trade Pacioretty for a young right hand center on a decent contract, you don't want to trade the draft pick for a center, don't want to draft a center. You must be just delighted going into next season with our team as it stands. 

 

I want to trade Pacioretty for a centre.  I don't want to trade him for Bjustad, who I see as a better winger than a centre.  If you put him at centre he's a 2nd/3rd line tweener. To me, he's not the solution. 

 

I've suggested a number of options for acquiring a centre... In this thread i suggested starting with Pacioretty and adding pieces for Trocheck.  I've also suggested trying to trade for one of the following: Thomas, Borgstrom, Villardi, Steel, D. Strome.  I've also suggested signing Stastny if you can't get Tavares. I would also be ok with trading Pacioretty for the Oilers pick+, or the Blackhawks pick+ and drafting Kotkaniemi there. 

There are a ton of options.  You've put words in my mouth just because I am not a fan of Bjustad. 

[Meller93]

I think Bjugstad works better as a winger as well, one who’s not as good a pacioretty at that. Either Tavares (obviously) or Stastny being signed is the best in my opinion because we have plenty of cap space, and won’t lose any assets.

 

Although I would trade Pacioretty in the right deal, I actually don’t agree that we have too many top 6 wingers. Having guys like Lehkonen and Hudon playing 3rd line is ideal for depth scoring. We don’t need to subtract wingers, we need to add Centers.

 

id prefer to see Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Lehkonen top 3 LW, And Drouin, Gallagher, a hudon top 3 RW. With Stastny - Danault the top 6 C, or unlikely but ideally Tavares.

[Commandant]

4 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

I think Bjugstad works better as a winger as well, one who’s not as good a pacioretty at that. Either Tavares (obviously) or Stastny being signed is the best in my opinion because we have plenty of cap space, and won’t lose any assets.

 

Although I would trade Pacioretty in the right deal, I actually don’t agree that we have too many top 6 wingers. Having guys like Lehkonen and Hudon playing 3rd line is ideal for depth scoring. We don’t need to subtract wingers, we need to add Centers.

 

id prefer to see Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Lehkonen top 3 LW, And Drouin, Gallagher, a hudon top 3 RW. With Stastny - Danault the top 6 C, or unlikely but ideally Tavares.

 

And the guy who scored the second most goals on the team plays on the fourth line?

What about Scherbak?

 

 

[REV-G]

I mentioned or asked about Kotkaniemi earlier in a thread but as I think about it, is he not 17 years old right now?? He's born in 2000 so he either just turned 18 or will be turning 18 this year. Doesn't that mean he's not NHL ready right now and won't be for a while? If he's our answer for a #1 centre wouldn't that be too long of a wait for us? Don't we need someone ready to step in now? 

[REV-G]

Could Stasney fill in for year as a #1 centre while we waited for Kotkaniemi, if we dropped down and drafted him lower? 

 

[Commandant]

2 minutes ago, REV-G said:

I mentioned or asked about Kotkaniemi earlier in a thread but as I think about it, is he not 17 years old right now?? He's born in 2000 so he either just turned 18 or will be turning 18 this year. Doesn't that mean he's not NHL ready right now and won't be for a while? If he's our answer for a #1 centre wouldn't that be too long of a wait for us? Don't we need someone ready to step in now? 

 

He probably needs some time, and its unlikely he's in the NHL next year.  Even if he's in the NHL, he's certainly not ready to be a #1 centre.  

 

That said, this team has a really young group of forwards.  It also needs more than just one piece to fix it.  It wouldn't be a bad thing to plan to be ready to compete in 2-3 years rather than next season. 

[Meller93]

15 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

And the guy who scored the second most goals on the team plays on the fourth line?

What about Scherbak?

 

 

Well personally I’d have Galchenyuk in the middle and Byron top 9 as well. Don’t see Galchenyuk being there. 

 

I guess I can see a logjam because I wasn’t thinking about Scherbak. Still, depth is always great when injuries arise. 

 

And like I said, I would trade Pacioretty if the deal was right, but I just don’t think he’s the problem, it’s the lack of centres.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

7 minutes ago, REV-G said:

Could Stasney fill in for year as a #1 centre while we waited for Kotkaniemi, if we dropped down and drafted him lower? 

 

He's turning 33 and is a 50 point centre. So you're rolling the dice there. He's probably better suited for a 2C role. While injuries have played a role (which is something to consider) he hasn't broke more than 60 points in almost a decade.

 

Kotkaniemi doesn't do much for me. I get a real Eller/Berglund vibe from him. This club shouldn't be looking at signing a Stastny and then attempting to make the playoffs in 2019. They should be pushing for a Top 10 draft pick in 2019 and try to land Jack Hughes, Dylan Cozens, or Raph Lavoie (who is playing both centre and wing). 2020 will be better for centres as well.

 

That's not to say I'm against drafting Kot, but I just don't see him as a guy you build around. He's more like when the Leafs drafted Nylander. They didn't stop to build around him.

[Commandant]

22 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

Well personally I’d have Galchenyuk in the middle and Byron top 9 as well. Don’t see Galchenyuk being there. 

 

I guess I can see a logjam because I wasn’t thinking about Scherbak. Still, depth is always great when injuries arise. 

 

And like I said, I would trade Pacioretty if the deal was right, but I just don’t think he’s the problem, it’s the lack of centres.

 

I'm not trading him because too many wingers is a problem.

 

I'm trading him cause it is a position where we have a surplus and we need centres. 

 

With his age (the oldest of the group) and contract (UFA in a year), and value (a top goal scorer) he is the smartest option to move. 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

42 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

Well personally I’d have Galchenyuk in the middle and Byron top 9 as well. Don’t see Galchenyuk being there. 

 

I guess I can see a logjam because I wasn’t thinking about Scherbak. Still, depth is always great when injuries arise. 

 

And like I said, I would trade Pacioretty if the deal was right, but I just don’t think he’s the problem, it’s the lack of centres.

Don’t back down, I agree there’s no logjam.

 

Pacioretty-Stastny-Gallagher

Galchenyuk-Drouin-Scherbak

Byron-Danault-Lehkonen

Hudon-Shaw-Deslauriers

 

Nothing wrong with Hudon starting the season on the 4th line as a lot of players are interchangeable if someone starts cooling off or gets injured. 

 

First two lines are also interchangeable. This isn’t the lineup I’ve suggested before but I agree it’s not like we’re free to give up talented wingers at will. I hope I’m wrong but Lehkonen, Hudon, Byron, these players are often assumed to be more than capable to fill in high in the lineup but not in a million years will they be able to offset the offense lost by players like a Gallagher or Pacioretty. Galchenyuk and Scherbak I have more hope for although even Galchenyuk may never be as prolific a goal scorer as Pacioretty was a few years ago. I hope he is as he’s certainly more than capable of putting in 30+ goals under the right circumstances. 

 

Two side notes in this all is that first at first of all, some of the recent posts in this thread are why I have not wanted to see Pacioretty traded as well as why I will be surprised if he actually is any time prior to next year’s deadline. There have been claims that we should temper our expectations on the return for him and yet trade him anyway. This is precisely why I don’t want to see him gone. If he has low value due to whatever reason, why the heck not try to use someone else as trade bait. Perhaps we wouldn’t be able to work anything out but the point is that people are so focused in on Pacioretty. One of the first things I was told is that we need to give to get. I’d say that’s a valid reason for considering using Pacioretty as a trade chip. Now, we’re supposed to temper our expectations on a return, but just trade him anyway.

 

Secondly, I’ve been one of those involved in penciling Stastny in as a potentially nice acquisition during the off season but the question is why would he leave Winnipeg at this point? Can Winnipeg not offer him enough? Will he even be as available as he is perceived? 

[Machine of Loving Grace]

8 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Secondly, I’ve been one of those involved in penciling Stastny in as a potentially nice acquisition during the off season but the question is why would he leave Winnipeg at this point? Can Winnipeg not offer him enough? Will he even be as available as he is perceived? 

 

They could probably fit him if he takes a pay cut. They need to re-sign their D in Enstrom, Trouba, and Morrissey, as well as Hellebyuck, and summer of 2019 sees them having to re-sign Connor and Laine as well as Wheeler. 

 

If they move Mason they can more than likely fit Stastny for two more years if he takes around $6M like Turris did in Nashville.

[Meller93]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

I'm not trading him because too many wingers is a problem.

 

I'm trading him cause it is a position where we have a surplus and we need centres. 

 

With his age (the oldest of the group) and contract (UFA in a year), and value (a top goal scorer) he is the smartest option to move. 

Like I said though, I would trade him. I just think signing a centre is the better option because we don’t lose a huge asset like Pacioretty. We could sign a Centre, then if trading him is necessary we could fill in another weakness like LD

[Machine of Loving Grace]

8 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

Like I said though, I would trade him. I just think signing a centre is the better option because we don’t lose a huge asset like Pacioretty. We could sign a Centre, then if trading him is necessary we could fill in another weakness like LD

 

Or if you do a good enough job scouting, you can get a C and LD based on the prospects you bring back out of a Pacioretty trade. You know, kind of like how the Habs got a LD and LW out of trading Rivet.

[alfredoh2009]

I sometimes feel like we would get as much of a return for Galchenyuk as for Pacioretty because he is younger, under contract, and is showing to have finally put things together 

[illWill]

3 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

I want to trade Pacioretty for a centre.  I don't want to trade him for Bjustad, who I see as a better winger than a centre.  If you put him at centre he's a 2nd/3rd line tweener. To me, he's not the solution. 

 

I've suggested a number of options for acquiring a centre... In this thread i suggested starting with Pacioretty and adding pieces for Trocheck.  I've also suggested trying to trade for one of the following: Thomas, Borgstrom, Villardi, Steel, D. Strome.  I've also suggested signing Stastny if you can't get Tavares. I would also be ok with trading Pacioretty for the Oilers pick+, or the Blackhawks pick+ and drafting Kotkaniemi there. 

There are a ton of options.  You've put words in my mouth just because I am not a fan of Bjustad. 

 

Okay, difference of opinion, I would trade him for Bjugstad. 

 

The options for Pacioretty are:

 

a)Trade him for help in another position

b)Don't trade him and resign him at a larger cap hit for a long time

c)Don't trade him and lose him for nothing

 

To me A makes the most sense, followed by B and C.  It's no secret we need help at center and LD. But the reasons we are willing to trade Pacioretty are the same reasons why he won't get a big return. His next contract is going to be scary, and there are alot of wingers around that can be had either cheaper or will cost nothing to acquire. I'm just at the point where enough is enough, get a damn guy that can play center. I don't care if he got moved to wing because he is behind one of the best top 2 center combos in the league. He is signed for 3 more years at 4 million. I would probably do all of the deals you proposed and I don't even know much about the guys you mentioned. The reality is that we are not going to get an equivalent player in a trade in terms of ability and certainly not one that is younger. It is our best bet to win the trade down the road but if he does get moved, it's probably going to be a loss anyway. And I'm okay giving up the slightly better player if it fills a hole to make the overall team better.  

[Commandant]

34 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I sometimes feel like we would get as much of a return for Galchenyuk as for Pacioretty because he is younger, under contract, and is showing to have finally put things together 

 

All reasons why you keep the younger player under contract, and trade Pacioretty

[Commandant]

Lets look in the division....

 

Toronto has Matthews, Kadri (maybe Nylander converting as their number 3)

Boston has Bergeron, Krejci (Donato developping into their #3)

Tampa has Stamkos, Point (johnson as the number 3)

Florida has Barkov, Trocheck

Buffalo has Eichel, O'Reilly, and soon to have Mittelstadt

Ottawa has Duchene and PageauInsert other media

Detroit has Larkin and Zetterberg. 

 

On which team will Bjustad be a top 6 Centre?  Ottawa, yes.... Detroit, yes only cause Zetterberg is close to retiring, and they drafted Rasmussen high last year. However on Tampa, Toronto, Buffalo, he wouldn't even be the third centre.

 

If we are going to compete in this division, we are going to need to do better than Bjustad as a #2 Centre.

[Metallica]

We need more Playmakers, in today's NHL its play making and creativity that generates goal scoring opportunity's. Our guys are to soft on the puck and lack vision on the ice.

[Habopotamus]

1 hour ago, Metallica said:

We need more Playmakers, in today's NHL its play making and creativity that generates goal scoring opportunity's. Our guys are to soft on the puck and lack vision on the ice.

We need guys who can put the puck in the net.