The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: Seriously. It’s going to be a long season next year watching the Habs with everyone already having taught me how to be a smart fan, knowing the Habs have no chance at contention. Since they don’t have a chance, apparently we may as well get worse until the team just looks completely different. Then we’ll have a chance. It’s amusing to think that almost no one who discusses contention thinks that y’know, a team can simply get better season after season and work itself into that position. No, now we must no longer try to do what people have been complaining about and no longer try to fill our positions of need. Ryan O’Reilly would be a great addition to the team. I too, just worry about what would have to be sent in return, but for different reasons. Well, for my part, I'm all for incremental improvement, and I'm all for adding ROR in principle. The reason 'contention' comes into it, however, is that the reported asking price involves pieces that could make a meaningful difference to our chances of actually contending in the longer term - without making us contenders in the present. That is precisely the path to permanent mediocrity that the team has been walking for three decades. I was writing on here just yesterday that I believe it quite possible to contend without tanking. But it requires the sang-froid not to trade high picks and prospects for players who do not, in themselves, put you into contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Is interesting if Molson did basically say he is OK with, or can see missing playoffs in 2018-19 season being a reality. (seems too ballsy to come from him) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 52 minutes ago, DON said: Is interesting if Molson did basically say he is OK with, or can see missing playoffs in 2018-19 season being a reality. (seems too ballsy to come from him) It makes sense to make 2018-2019 another "development season": not going after expensive UFAs, stockpiling on draft picks. With the Seattle expansion draft in 2020, I would only sign forward UFAs that I won't care to protect for the expansion draft. I would focus on getting one UFA D to solidify the back-end (there are many), but would go with most of last year's group to help the tank At next year's trade deadline, I would clear-out the Alzner, Byron, Shaw, Schlemko, Pacioretty, ... for draft picks. That would make for an improved roster in 2019-2020 that is more easily protected from the expansion draft. It also helps the CH refill its prospect pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Getting too worried about expansion is a fools errand. Build a bunch of depth. If you lose one guy... you lose one. You get to keep the rest of the depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Commandant said: Getting too worried about expansion is a fools errand. Build a bunch of depth. If you lose one guy... you lose one. You get to keep the rest of the depth. I get that for depth (draft picks and prospects). But with respect to core players, there is only room for the LD to play with Weber (which we would not want to lose in expansion) and for Pacioretty or the core player coming back if we trade him Molson's take makes sense in that context, versus "going all in" now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 18 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I get that for depth (draft picks and prospects). But with respect to core players, there is only room for the LD to play with Weber (which we would not want to lose in expansion) and for Pacioretty or the core player coming back if we trade him Molson's take makes sense in that context, versus "going all in" now. So you lose one guy oh well You add both the LD and the guy coming back for pacioretty and another piece you can stil only lose one,,, so you keep 2 of the 3 Better to have that depth than to be a crap team where no one even wants your players after you protect 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/24/2018 at 12:05 PM, dlbalr said: If the Habs are skeptical that they'll be able to be big spenders in free agency, do they turn around and take on a bad contract? Minnesota is trying to attach Tyler Ennis and his $4.6M (for one year) in trade talks regarding some of their better players. If they can't move him, there's a good chance they buy him out. Do the Habs consider taking him on in exchange for adding another asset? To Montreal: Tyler Ennis 2019 2nd round pick To Minnesota: Antoine Waked (simply to clear out a contract) The Habs pick up a 2nd for their troubles and then can decide whether or not they want to keep Ennis and hope that he fits in better (or well enough to trade him with retention midseason) or buy him out. The cap hit for the buyout would be $2.17M in 2018-19 and $1.22M in 2019-20. Is it worth it to effectively buy a second rounder? Quoted dlbalr's post here because I like where it's going. I'm wondering if we could do a 3 way deal with Minnesota or maybe another team to get O'Reilly. I'll go on record as saying that I'm not a huge fan of paying the high (but fair) asking price for O'Reilly. However I see the value in adding him to the team. Since I don't want to give up a potential lottery pick for him this is what I came up with. To Minnesota Max Pacioretty To Montreal Tyler Ennis Kunin ? 2019 1st 2019 or 2020 2nd My reasoning for this is Pacioretty on his own is likely worth a 1st and a good to top prospect (not sure if Minnesota would part with Kunin or if he's fair value in a trade like this, hence the question mark). Taking Ennis' contract is likely worth a 2nd. Pacioretty has about the same cap hit as Ennis, but obviously is the better value. So not much cap savings for the Wild, but more bang for their buck. There were rumors at the deadline that Minnesota was interested in Pacioretty. And then To Buffalo Kunin Min's 2019 1st Min's 2019 or 2020 2nd To Montreal Ryan O'Reilly Matt Moulson Since the rumor is that Buffalo has no interest in Pacioretty, the Habs trade them the return they got for Pacioretty. Sabres are reportedly looking for a 1st rounder and second rounder (which they get) and a top prospect (which they get with Kunin if he is fair value in the Min-Mtl trade). As a bonus the Habs take Moulson's contract for the year (which has to be worth something despite the fact that they seem content leaving him in the minors). Help me out here guys. Does this make sense at all? What changes would you make to this deal to make it work? I'm not sure I have the values right here. Looking forward to hear other people's input and changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 If I get that for Pacs Id rather keep it than trading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Dalhabs said: If I get that for Pacs Id rather keep it than trading it. Would you say that it's too much for Pacioretty? Maybe a prospect that's not quite as good as Kunin is more appropriate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Pacioretty (extended) Byron (extended) Armia (RFA) McNiven 3rd (2019) 3rd (2020) O'Reilly Moulson 5th (2019) 5th (2020) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Unfortunately Minnesota decided to buy out Tyler Ennis instead of trade him to us with a draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Trizzak said: Unfortunately Minnesota decided to buy out Tyler Ennis instead of trade him to us with a draft pick. I actually thought there was a small chance Ennis and Mason would be dealt for each other (with the Habs getting a late pick) and then bought out. It would have resulted in more money this year on the books for Montreal but less for 2019-20 while the Wild would have freed up another $800K or so in cap room for this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, dlbalr said: I actually thought there was a small chance Ennis and Mason would be dealt for each other (with the Habs getting a late pick) and then bought out. It would have resulted in more money this year on the books for Montreal but less for 2019-20 while the Wild would have freed up another $800K or so in cap room for this year. Or don't buy out Ennis, play him at centre, and see if he bounces back in a contract year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metallica Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I am the only one that doesn't like what O'Reilly is going to cost us in a trade plus his 5 years at 7.5mil left on his contract? It just seems over payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Metallica said: I am the only one that doesn't like what O'Reilly is going to cost us in a trade plus his 5 years at 7.5mil left on his contract? It just seems over payment. I think MB is doing everything he can to work out a deal that doesn’t include our 1st round pick in 2019 or Kotkaniemi/Poehling. If Buffalo won’t budge on that unfortunately I think we should pass and probably will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habopotamus Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Scott462 said: I think MB is doing everything he can to work out a deal that doesn’t include our 1st round pick in 2019 or Kotkaniemi/Poehling. If Buffalo won’t budge on that unfortunately I think we should pass and probably will. Ya, I don't think any picks from Montreal will be exchanged this year. Unless it's for a prospect or young roster player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Scott462 said: I think MB is doing everything he can to work out a deal that doesn’t include our 1st round pick in 2019 or Kotkaniemi/Poehling. If Buffalo won’t budge on that unfortunately I think we should pass and probably will. Agree. Although if Poehling turns out to be another Eller, we may look back on this reluctance and scratch our heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Agree. Although if Poehling turns out to be another Eller, we may look back on this reluctance and scratch our heads. That could definitely happen but from what I have seen from Poehling and his progressive development I am fairly confident in the kid and I think management is as well. From what I can tell Kotkaniemi and Poehling will be brought along at the same time. I get the sense both will be in the AHL for the 2019-2020 season playing together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Metallica said: I am the only one that doesn't like what O'Reilly is going to cost us in a trade plus his 5 years at 7.5mil left on his contract? It just seems over payment. Likely is, but so what, he is a good player in his prime and a legit top six centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Although if Poehling turns out to be another Eller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Metallica said: I am the only one that doesn't like what O'Reilly is going to cost us in a trade plus his 5 years at 7.5mil left on his contract? It just seems over payment. I'm not fond of what would have to be given up to get O'Reilly or his cap hit. However the Habs need an established center if they are thinking about making the playoffs this season. O'Reilly is probably the best one available aside from Tavares (who has shown no interest in Montreal). Rumor has it that Bergevin is pursuing O'Reilly. If the rumors about the deal with Blues is true I guess Bergevin will be out of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metallica Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 33 minutes ago, John B said: I'm not fond of what would have to be given up to get O'Reilly or his cap hit. However the Habs need an established center if they are thinking about making the playoffs this season. O'Reilly is probably the best one available aside from Tavares (who has shown no interest in Montreal). Rumor has it that Bergevin is pursuing O'Reilly. If the rumors about the deal with Blues is true I guess Bergevin will be out of luck. I don't think they're thinking of making the playoffs next year, Molson said he is ok not making the playoffs and developing our young players. Bergevin and CJ both said our younger guys will get a chance to play. Plus the trade they just did with the jets tells me that also. Yes we have a lot of cap space but what good is that in a weak free agency market, and all the holes we, its just too much. Next year's draft is deep at center and if we get a pick any where from 1-12 we should land ourselves another top line center to go with Kotkaniemi and Poehling we could be set for years to come down the middle. We need O'Reilly 5 years ago not now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Im fine with passing on oreilly. I think the cost js too high too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Maybe our only hope now is J.T. goes to SJ and we can land jumbo joe on a 1 year overpayment as a stop gap... thortnon danault evans DeLa Rose and Drouin moves back to wing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link67 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Maybe our only hope now is J.T. goes to SJ and we can land jumbo joe on a 1 year overpayment as a stop gap... thortnon danault evans DeLa Rose and Drouin moves back to wing Reports are Thornton will sign a heavily discounted 1 year deal if they sign Tavares to make it work, no chance what so ever he is leaving SJ at this point, he is simply retiring a Shark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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